MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@EsoRecon
I'm playing PvP atm and yeah I know DBH is where I'll receive the stamina balances I need but I'm really tired of this shield stacking non-sense; before TG it was bad but now it's worse.

Ya I used to rage all the time dueling magsorcs and now I just gank them. I know no respect and I don't care.

Shield stacking isn't a problem for me against 80%+ of players, but the sorcs and magicka nightblades near CP cap are unstoppable, especially ones that use the Lich set and can invest more CP toward stamina management. Your only hope against Shield stackers is to drain their stamina, but these type of builds are immune to that strategy.

Honestly replacing Bastion and Shattering Blows with something else will bring balance to the force.

It's important to remember that in pvp every class has to fight every class, so something like shattering blows will help sorcs fight sorcs as much as any other class fighting a sorc. And Hardy helps the stam builds deal with physical damage as much as the magicka builds.

Solariken wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Shield stacking isn't a problem for me against 80%+ of players, but the sorcs and magicka nightblades near CP cap are unstoppable, especially ones that use the Lich set and can invest more CP toward stamina management. Your only hope against Shield stackers is to drain their stamina, but these type of builds are immune to that strategy.

Honestly replacing Bastion and Shattering Blows with something else will bring balance to the force.

The only issue I see with removing those two is that then everyone would suddenly have a load of spare cp. Needing to spread your cp out is good for the game imo, and something I think zos have tried to design into the system.

I agree, that's why I said they should replace them with something else.

For the record, Bastion and Shattering Blows are not balanced to each other. +25% damage against shields is a lot less than +25% strength to ALL of your shields. Also to use SB you sacrifice your CP that increase normal damage, so it's a wash.

Good point, which is why I keep saying I want shield stacking removed before any nerf to shields. Cos I'm damned if shields get balanced around being a mega-3in1-stacked super shield. Shields should be balanced individually not as combined shields. Else you remove their viability as single shields.

Vangy wrote: »

The only thing that needs to happen is reworking of the obsolete weapon skills in stam as well as changing/introducing some stam ultimates that do physical/poison damage. Things that will put us on par with meteor or lotus fan+proxy+soul tether or batswarm combos. All these get buffed by elemental cp whereas stam gets the short end of the stick. I Guess we will see what happens to stam once db comes out. Cyro is just full of mag blades and sorcs running VD now. Literally every mothers Son has a proxy ticking during engages.

Agreed on having weapon and stam ults.

Agreed everyone runs proxy - however, very few have been using it effectively. No way to cc prior or gap closer, etc

---

To OP It's silly to say someone that has put 100 points into Bastion should be countered by 20 points in a different line. Come on man! THINK about it!

---

Shieldstacking can be an issue against the more powerful players. However, most players just end up spamming shields trying to desperately use LoS or streak to survive. Sure they are hard to kill, but provide little threat, and they do Eventually die.

I don't shield stack, there is no need. I just refresh my shield, usually stacking HAS to happen because mosr sorcs stack one bar with all shields, meaning it has to last far longer than a build like mine. I find the typical sorc is the easiest to kill. As a stam, just cc them until they're outta stam and they then can't unfear, as a DK spam WB and Leap till they outta stam and die. As a temp.... um...nevermind.

As magicka you just burst burst and burst, with just a hint of CC.

Simple. Damage shields need to be crittable. There is no reason they shouldn't be, as shields are only a PVP problem and crits against players only happen in PVP.

Right now crit mitigation is the best kind of damage mitigation in PVP, and sorcerors get this and then some for free. Shields don't just negate the damage boost, they negate crits entirely along with everything that comes with a crit, like passives, proccs, and ultimate generation.

This by itself is ridiculous, but that's not all. Lets look at the leeway this gives them with itemization. Sorcerors can just stack divines to boost atronach and squeeze more spell damage out of their gear, or even go with infused to further boost their shields and high base damage. Maybe even a mix of both, there is no wrong answer. Every other class needs to balance damage and survivability stats for PVP, sorcerors get both from the same stat. Imagine if every other class got that much survivability from boosting their offensive stats?

I'm aware sorcerors are not the only class to utilize shields, and such a simple change itself would hurt every magicka build, so some kind of compensation should be made to make damage shields different from a standard heal like a preset resistance separate from your own physical and spell resist, higher than what full light armor or (5-1-1) gives but definitely less than heavy armor.

If someone wants to build like a glass cannon, that is their prerogative, but they should have to deal with the liability of dying very quickly. Sorcerors are rewarded with survivability when building in such a way. Something needs to change, sorcerors shouldn't be exempt from the same rules everyone else has to follow.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorry op, I only use one ward in pvp (hardened ward) and it's only 10.3k (77cp in bastion). You can use your cp to boost your physical and/or magical damage against my 10.3k shield by upto 25%. I therefore need to be able to counter that by increasing my wards resistance to physical and magical damage by up to 25%. But on top of that you can spend cp to do straight up more damage directly to my shield and the only thing I can do to mitigate that is spend more cp in bastion.

The counter to Hardy is Mighty, the counter to Elemental Defender is Elemental Expert, and the counter to Bastion is Shattering Blows. All is balanced

In your conclusion you forgot to mention some other forms of damage mitigation. Healing is damage mitigation and stam builds have good heals in the form of rally and vigor. Dodge chance is a form of damage mitigation and again stamina builds do this well by having reduced dodge-roll cost and shuffle/blur to give you a 20% chance to proc dodge chance when being targeted. While dodge chance is proc'd all attacks will miss you. Magicka builds have no block cost reduction outside of cp, no dodge-roll cost reduction outside of cp, and less dodge chance procs. Damage absorption (shields) is a valid form of damage mitigation for those builds that can't easily utilise the other forms of damage mitigation.

I hope this helps you see things from my perspective.

Wrong. Dodge from shuffle does not give a "dodge" period. Thats just a rumor some people believe.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

This thread has so much wrong and from every point of view...

Please elaborate.