Lying Tanks

crislevin · March 2016

its hard to find a tank, I am going to make my templar a tank on top of healing.

jhharvest · March 2016

It could easily have a voting system where you get to vote after a dungeon run if the people were good at their role or not. The votes you get wouldn't show up anywhere on your UI and would fade out after a week. If you have more negative reviews than positive reviews you get stuck in a low priority queue - you aren't forbidden from queueing up but it just takes longer, or at least until all real players of that role have been expended.

istateres · March 2016

Aspi90 wrote: »

I really hope most of you are talking about vet dungeons.
Normal dungeons aren´t that difficult, that you need every role, you can do most of them with 4 dps or even solo.

Wow, you are awesome. However, I think very few of the players using the Group finder to run Normal dungeons can solo them. Many in fact are low level players who are at a disadvantage in a V16 scaled world. Four DPS at level 20 scaled to V16 is a recipe for disaster. Even if they are skilled players, they likely don't have even blue gear, tri-pots, or purple food/drink for that level character. Three DPS and a Healer? Maybe, if everyone knows that the boss may attack them at any time.

deadlock007 · March 2016

istateres wrote: »

Ran into a Lying Healer last night and I now believe they are worse than Lying Tanks. Why? Because 3 DPS and 1 Healer are doable but 4 DPS or 3 DPS and 1 Tank is a nightmare!

I run dungeons like that all the time, it's fun, but yes it will not work if the group doesn't know what they are doing. Also, a good healer should be able to throw out a little DPS. When I heal a pug I will usually test them in the beginning by dps/healing and if they don't die then all good if they do then I will switch to full heals (which I personally find a little boring).

mb10 · March 2016

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

NBrookus · March 2016

Kreetar wrote: »

my only input here is that waiting in the queue as a dps has taken me more than an hour and a half. often times it takes at least 35 minutes. an excuse to lie and say I'm a tank? absolutely not, and I wait in queue until my 'proper' role is placed in a group. it can just take a ridiculous amount of time. I'm running into a lot of other players now who are saying that they're tank just to get into group. the whole thing is just frustrating so I'm torn between ripping them a new one and saying "I get it".

So build a tank toon. Or even a healer.

Most players want to DPS, or else assume they are DPS because they have no particular build. Hence the long queues. It doesn't help that the dev team clearly is 100% damage focused themselves and keeps making support roles less and less interesting.

anitajoneb17_ESO · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry.

That is silly...

mb10 wrote: »

I know these classes can pull it off

...and you know it.

mb10 wrote: »

skilled players wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

You're thinking wrong.

.

UrQuan · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

You're what's wrong with this game. Your assumptions are flat-out wrong, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being an ***.

Steel_Brightblade · March 2016

There's are a lot of incorrect assumptions there, I tank a little differently but things go extremely well even though you might not think that looking at my set up (which I won't mention after seeing how quickly zos nerfed the last out of the box tanking that was posted on here) and I occasionally use group finder though not often.

Lightninvash · March 2016

everyone just queues up for all 3 for faster entry and when you get a "healer role or tank" you just go in the group menu real quick and change it to dps only so it looks like you got 4 dps only

Soleya · March 2016

Last night was my 4th group finder run with a lying tank. This one came in and asked why it put him as tank. When we said it was because he chose it on his UI, he claimed it must do that by default.

We finished the dungeon (non vet Darkshade) but it was really hard on me (healer). 2 dps were level 20, the "tank" was a light armor sorc V10, and I'm level 34 Templar. Thank goodness the battle leveling has me at 42k magicka and 2500 regen.

It didn't help that all of them just stood in the red all the time.

Running normal dungeons with 3 dps and a healer is fine if everyone is V16, but when you have level 20's, the dps is too low, and many of them don't have a burn ability yet.

I haven't quite unlocked Radiant Destruction at Level 34 yet.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

I saw dk tanks that died all over the place.

Dk has magma armor ofc, but it only lasts 10 seconds and any good tank uses war horn instead anyways. Chains are also useful, but not all average dk tanks are using them.
Any class can tank, and imo nb tank is even easier to play and sustain than dk. And yeah, I have both dk and nb tanks.
Speaking of kicking players for their class, I actually find this "elitism" hilarious. I'm a decent player (all hardmodes cleared, except vMoL, have a Flawless achievement and good DSA score), but I still pug sometimes. Despite popular opinion pugs do not have to be a noob ghetto, sometimes its just a way to meet new people and sometimes guildies are not available.

And sometimes I was getting kicked for being a nb tank.

Even though this nb tank got Ic dungeon achievements before the nerf and doesnt need any stamina support. Im not offended, I think in these cases I was kinda lucky to avoid scrub group.
So... Good luck with judging people by their class.

SahrotRein · March 2016

istateres wrote: »

Runaan wrote: »

I do this myself and I don't feel ashamed of it - I tick all roles and 100% of the time get filled into Tank role. Now bear in mind that I only practice this method in normal dungeons, I'd never ruin vet. dungeon for other people this way.

But considering the other 2 DDs could be around 30lv and just not have enough DPS, we wouldn't be even able to finish it if I was that V16 tank instead of DD.
Therefore I as a V16 DD have no problem getting all the group through normal dungeons.

Feels like a little confession

edit: to OP, well everybody have said it by now so I just wanted to give my own experience

I appreciate the honesty. Do you clue in your groups that you will not be tanking during these dungeon runs? While I disagree with your approach, I agree more DPS is better for most situations.

Because all of my normal dungeons went very smooth without an issue, they never really asked or cared for that matter. But one time a group member asked who's tanking, I briefly explained and he was fine with it because we had 0 deaths in our group.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · March 2016

I dont mind the lying as much as the bad playing. So you arent actually a tank? Cool why no do something useful then? Equip some aoe and go to town with the rest of us? In group pulls stop spamming flurry, stop spamming wb use some aoe.

Since i normally join with my better half i am almost always group leader. So i started a list. It isnt even about if we got through the dungeon. If you are going to lie about being a tank and be horrible dps, ill just boot you at the start of a dungeon. If you are going to lie atleast be good and not a useless dps we have to carry theough the dungeon anyway.

It isnt any worse then the tank we ran into the other day in random vet. We got pulled into a dungeon that wasnt the daily. Tank drops right away. I find replacement same tank. He drops. This happened like 5-6 more times always getting the same tank before he ask us to disband so he can get the random and the daily at the same time. Great as a tank you could do both in the time i wait and get one done as dps but we should go to the back of the line for you.

Tonnopesce · March 2016

Really an issue , yesterday i've joined the queue for a random dungeon, tree times.
In all three cases dd's joined the group without the taunt without s&b but flagged as tanks.
The funny part is the "i don’t respond to the chat" policy that this people have, luckily my build is done to cover all tree roles, well i'm only a DD for hig end, but i will never join pug for an ICP, WGT, MOL run.

I can't see a solution here.

pecheckler · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

pecheckler wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

Kicking should be allowed since there can be different situations. Like I said, for me its even better because judging people by their class already shows group leader's level. It just saves time. Cause I have serious doubts that those who outright kick templar dds or nb tanks from average pledge group are super skilled players.
Though I would prefer vote kick system, it has its flaws, but overall its more fair.

starkerealm · March 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

Kicking should be allowed since there can be different situations. Like I said, for me its even better because judging people by their class already shows group leader's level. It just saves time. Cause I have serious doubts that those who outright kick templar dds or nb tanks from average pledge group are super skilled players.
Though I would prefer vote kick system, it has its flaws, but overall its more fair.

I've actually run NB tanks.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

[edit] Sorry misunderstood the message.

starkerealm · March 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

Kicking should be allowed since there can be different situations. Like I said, for me its even better because judging people by their class already shows group leader's level. It just saves time. Cause I have serious doubts that those who outright kick templar dds or nb tanks from average pledge group are super skilled players.
Though I would prefer vote kick system, it has its flaws, but overall its more fair.

I've actually run NB tanks.

Why, may I ask? Just curious.

Variety. Also because it was fun. Not so much anymore, because of how certain abilities, and game mechanics have changed. Siphoning Strikes, I'm looking at you.

LadyNalcarya · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

Kicking should be allowed since there can be different situations. Like I said, for me its even better because judging people by their class already shows group leader's level. It just saves time. Cause I have serious doubts that those who outright kick templar dds or nb tanks from average pledge group are super skilled players.
Though I would prefer vote kick system, it has its flaws, but overall its more fair.

I've actually run NB tanks.

Why, may I ask? Just curious.

Variety. Also because it was fun. Not so much anymore, because of how certain abilities, and game mechanics have changed. Siphoning Strikes, I'm looking at you.

Yeah, I also have a nb tank. And have been kicked from pledge groups for that

But that only saves me from bad groups I think.

qrichou · March 2016

istateres wrote: »

Yesterday I ran a Random Dungeon as a DPS. The "tank" was shockingly bad. They never pulled the boss. They often (mostly) used a bow. And they died easily.

I ran this dungeon with a friend. They agreed with me about the "tank". After much thought, we believe this was a DPS, who claimed to be a tank to get into a Random Dungeon quickly.

Thoughts? Anything we can do to prevent this in the future?

block and mute

DerAlleinTiger · March 2016

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

My VR16 sorc-tank with full heavy armor, 27.6k health, 24.5k physical resist, and 22.1k spell resist all UNBUFFED (and still not outfitted with full V16 gear yet) would like a word with you...

You do realize that class =/= armor, weapon, and stat distribution choice, right? My sorc-tank has more raw health unbuffed than many DK casters have WITH food. Class can be important, yes, but Major Ward and Major Resolve are Major Ward and Major resolve. It doesn't matter whether you're getting it from Boundless Storm or spiked armor. And sure, maybe there are some passives here or there that my sorc-tank won't get that DK's would, but I'd like to see a DK throw out as much lightning DoT and AoE damage as my sorc-tank does to help out the team. I'd also like to see a DK fire crystal frags when they get to an untankable boss fight.

By kicking solely because of class, you're REALLY not helping the tanking situation. If anything, you're probably making it worse. I do have two DK tanks, but frankly I don't use them much because I find DK to be the most boring class and I just never have much fun with them. I'm sure for others who feel the same about the class being told "DK tank or nothing" they're more likely to just say "Well screw it. Healer then."

BlackEar · March 2016

We need a votekick option to show that we do not tolerate this kind of behaviour.

Wifeaggro13 · March 2016

just go have a look at the Thelon solos 5 vet dungeons thread. He is wearing a dress and wielding two brooms. you guys get the hint yet . ZOS has had a broken core game system for two years now. The game is about DPS and avoiding puddles. You could never do that with a sword and board and heavy armor.only a couple trial bosses require a heavy armored taunter. I find the whole thing very discouraging i left the game 6 months after launch came back to try the champion system and see the stamina improvements and heavy armor fix with Imperial city. Left again do to the PVP gear being better then anything in PVE for PVE lol. Returned for wrothgar lasted 2 days because it is strictly vommited up old content with a new zone. Came back for Thieves guild to find all the Stamina and heavy armor specs are in the toilet again. I enjoy tanking, i rolled Orc Dk thinking end game group dynamics would be a desirable build. then another year casually following the game hoping they would fix the imbalance. 2 years now and i think i know what the problem is. It's broken lol

Wifeaggro13 · March 2016

DerAlleinTiger wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

My VR16 sorc-tank with full heavy armor, 27.6k health, 24.5k physical resist, and 22.1k spell resist all UNBUFFED (and still not outfitted with full V16 gear yet) would like a word with you...

You do realize that class =/= armor, weapon, and stat distribution choice, right? My sorc-tank has more raw health unbuffed than many DK casters have WITH food. Class can be important, yes, but Major Ward and Major Resolve are Major Ward and Major resolve. It doesn't matter whether you're getting it from Boundless Storm or spiked armor. And sure, maybe there are some passives here or there that my sorc-tank won't get that DK's would, but I'd like to see a DK throw out as much lightning DoT and AoE damage as my sorc-tank does to help out the team. I'd also like to see a DK fire crystal frags when they get to an untankable boss fight.

By kicking solely because of class, you're REALLY not helping the tanking situation. If anything, you're probably making it worse. I do have two DK tanks, but frankly I don't use them much because I find DK to be the most boring class and I just never have much fun with them. I'm sure for others who feel the same about the class being told "DK tank or nothing" they're more likely to just say "Well screw it. Healer then."

I 100% agree i have a sorc as well and it tanks better because the design of this game favors magica , my V16 DK orc performs slightly lower then my DK. you dont really need heavy armor in this dumb game its brokenyou can hit the hard cap on resistance and armor way easier on a sorc then a dk.

Deadfinger6 · March 2016

I don't like the need to have Tank, healer and DPS and people's reaction when youre not exactly one of those. Just get a group together, if if works great if not live and learn.

Thrasher91604 · March 2016

I sort of gave up on running Undaunted group dungeons because healers and tanks in pugs cause us to fail so often. More often than not they couldn't stick to their role without spamming attacks.

Totalitarian · March 2016

Yesterday in a random dungeon, some noobie guildmates and I went to run a dungeon, just because. In the end, the 'tank' was a dps, and a poor one at that. He ended up afking for a long time on the last boss, so I kicked him and had to beg in a guild for help. Yeah, that tank lied.

But, I did get some good tanks with weird builds. For vCOA, I was grouped with a magicka sorcerer tank, who completely destroyed the bosses. On a later run, I got grouped with a magicka templar tank who was able to both heal and tank. Probably the best tanks I had seen.

starkerealm · March 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

When it comes to group finder you just have to be harsh and judge the book by its cover.

If you aren't a DK then I'm kicking sorry. Not having a sorc in all light armour trying to tank valkyn skoria or a stam NB who thinks he can do it with the immovable heavy armour skill.

I know these classes can pull it off but only skilled players can that wouldnt use the group finder at all i dont think

This is exactly why kicking should not be allowed in dungeon finder groups.

Kicking should be allowed since there can be different situations. Like I said, for me its even better because judging people by their class already shows group leader's level. It just saves time. Cause I have serious doubts that those who outright kick templar dds or nb tanks from average pledge group are super skilled players.
Though I would prefer vote kick system, it has its flaws, but overall its more fair.

I've actually run NB tanks.

Why, may I ask? Just curious.

Variety. Also because it was fun. Not so much anymore, because of how certain abilities, and game mechanics have changed. Siphoning Strikes, I'm looking at you.

Yeah, I also have a nb tank. And have been kicked from pledge groups for that
But that only saves me from bad groups I think.

Pretty much. To be fair, for out of the box tanking, I took way more flack for my blood magic/shotgun tanks in TSW. With ESO, the changes to Siphoning Strikes and the removal of softcaps are what killed off my NB tank builds more than anything else. Not because I couldn't tank on that spec anymore, but because refreshing Siphoning just felt... wrong.