Lying Tanks

UrQuan · March 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

I commonly hear/see someone queing in with all roles selected. People do it to que faster i expect, unless they genuinely think they can tank heal and dps. They should almost certainly limit a person to only selecting two roles. unfortunately you cant stop bad DPS/Tank/Healer.

I've got 2 different characters (both of my VR16s actually) who can tank, heal, or DPS. They've each got different gear sets and skill bar setups for each of the 3 roles, so it's very possible for people to legitimately queue for all 3 roles.

Of course, personally when I queue for a random dungeon 9 times out of 10 I'll queue just as a tank, because I prefer to do that anyway, and the queue times are sufficiently short for a tank...

being an exception to the probable is all well and good, and maybe you carry around all 3 sets of armor on you at all times. But id like to think for the greater good someone such as yourself could pick only 2 of the 3 roles they prefered to do? then if they had no luck, re-evaluate.

To be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with you that limiting it is probably a good idea: I was just pointing out that it's very possible that some of the people queuing for all 3 roles can legitimately do all 3 roles on that character.

And yes, I carry around 3 sets of armour on those characters at all times. It'll soon be 4 sets, as I'm planning on giving them each a stealth set as well to facilitate doing the Thieves Guild content on them. I love Wykkyd Outfitter combined with Wykkyd Macros - I hit one key and do one weapon swap and all of my gear and skills have been swapped

UrQuan · March 2016

Abeille wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

I commonly hear/see someone queing in with all roles selected. People do it to que faster i expect, unless they genuinely think they can tank heal and dps. They should almost certainly limit a person to only selecting two roles. unfortunately you cant stop bad DPS/Tank/Healer. They could introduce a grading, peer review, rating system. But that is also a little unfair, and can be worked around. You should be able to stop false queing with some simple checks though.
Maybe the undaunted might have something to say if you failed to perform your role's duties multiple times. give you a tutorial sort of quest to do, where you do that role you failed at supported by scripted NPCs in a pre-existing dungeon. Getting a key for reward. And you cannot que for that role within the dungeon (having failed it multiple times) until you have successfully completed the tutorial.

I would like to have some kind of repeatable tutorial with different difficulty tiers for each role that we could access at any time. I would certainly use it.

Actually that would be awesome. I'd use it to test new builds for the different roles to see if that build is good enough for me to try it out with real players without seriously inconveniencing them with a potentially terrible build.

Sa0n · March 2016

As a healer I've had to carry quite the bunch of groups out of the dungeons. By carry, I mean violently spamming BoL. Thanks, high magicka regen!

But what I would really like to bring up here, is that there are individuals so bad, that if there were butterflies randomly flying around in the dungeons, some of these people would chase them instead of even trying to do their jobs.

Oh btw, it's not the healer's fault if your healthbar acts like an indecisive pressure gauge. Heals are not your shield.

wraithguknub18_ESO · March 2016

Im sorry I just had to

profundidob16_ESO · March 2016

Durham wrote: »

Tank? What's that?

http://nobacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Military-Tank-16-500x250.png

Soleya · March 2016

This past weekend, I ended up using the group finder and got into a group, just as I got in, I saw in the group chat the leader was angry the Tank wasn't actually a tank.. The leader booted him.

We ended up doing the dungeon (Vollenfell) with 3 people instead (didn't need a tank). 2 Templar DPS (with off heals) and a DK Healer.

The really odd part was the group leader set it to find us a new tank, and eventually it did, just before the last boss. Only thing is that tank was in Spindleclutch and it booted us all to that dungeon, so we didn't get the complete on Vollenfell. The good news is that tank ran Vollenfell afterwards so we got completes on both dungeons.

I also had a lying healer in another group this weekend. I was tanking (V16) got in with a group of level 40's. The healer never once casted a single healing spell. After our 4th wipe (on the beginning mobs), the "healer" and another dps (who was just spamming WB) quit the group. The other DPS stayed and since he took some of my advice, i ended up bringing in 2 friends who are really good and we blew through the rest of the Dungeon.

Woeler · March 2016

Get a guild a don't use the group finder?

starkerealm · March 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Of course, personally when I queue for a random dungeon 9 times out of 10 I'll queue just as a tank, because I prefer to do that anyway, and the queue times are sufficiently short for a tank...

And, that would be why some of these players queue for tank. Shorter queue times, because if they get a team, "it'll all work out, right?"

Soleya · March 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Get a guild a don't use the group finder?

100k bonus xp for using group finder.

istateres · March 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

istateres wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I do fairly well as a Tank, but I have run groups with a really good tank and the difference is readily apparent. A good tank is like a Catcher on a baseball team. They keep the players focused on their jobs while doing their job.

It's not just about drawing Aggro.

I agree, but being the Tank IS about doing something different than DPS.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Mysteri0n wrote: »

Real talk time this game needs more tanks , if you a dps and tired of waiting hours for a group roll a tank you can get in a group in less than 10 seconds, to all the dps in this thread complaining about tanking, role one yourself so they will be better tanks out there. All tho if you get lucky and find a good tank the general consensus is if the healer dies,it's the tanks fault if the tank dies it's the healers fault, if the dps dies it's their own fault, due to standing in stupid and rushing ahead of the tank. #TankLife

The underlying issue is you don't need a tank just high dps

If you want to run without a Tank, that's fine. We wanted a Tank, and we got a Lying Tank.

To be clear, if you don't have a taunt, your "squishy", and you use ranged attacks; you're not a tank.

I use ranged attacks, ranged taunts, and in light armor and I promise you I'm one of the better tanks on the server lol

Excellent! So you have a taunt! Tank on.

anitajoneb17_ESO · March 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Get a guild a don't use the group finder?

Yes... but...
Guildies aren't always on and available. And it's nice to run with unknown people sometimes - for a change. And it's nice to "open up" as well, get to know new people and all... and people need to start grouping up at some stage, if the grouping tool is just fool of noobs or newbies, it's not gonna help...

I care about the grouping tool... I wish people would be more considerate of others when using it. Which means avoid kicking people with atypical builds before they get a chance, or people doing mistakes. But it also means that people must try and open up and do their best.

I enrage when I see people not responding to simple lines in group chat such as "hello", "who's the tank ?" or "everybody knows this dungeon" ? ... but don't hesitate to type "hurry up" ... everything would be much easier with some basic manners...

UrQuan · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Of course, personally when I queue for a random dungeon 9 times out of 10 I'll queue just as a tank, because I prefer to do that anyway, and the queue times are sufficiently short for a tank...

And, that would be why some of these players queue for tank. Shorter queue times, because if they get a team, "it'll all work out, right?"

When I say "I prefer to do that anyway" I don't mean that I prefer to queue as a tank, I mean that I prefer to tank dungeons rather than DPS or heal...

Purdomination33 · March 2016

With a 300+ CP count and versatile setup...such as a DK with mostly Prismatic glyphed armor, a player can easily and quickly switch between a Tank and DPS . For very good reason I que up as both a Tank and DPS. 9.5/10 when I enter a PUG with majority of v16's we can burn through vet dungeons with ease with 3 DPS setups and a healer. What I do is ask the other guys in the group if they would like me to act as a true tank. If they are competent players they don't care one way or the other.

It's when you encounter groups of lower level Vet's that you hear the whining. Even scaled the damage output of a vet 10 with 100 CP's is minimal. It is a waste to have the v16 who in all reality is the highest damage dealer in the group dumbed down carting bosses around while guys tickle the boss , die then cry. It simply takes too long.

Anyone who has run more than 10 vet dungeons knows what the obvious exceptions are...vICP, vWGT, vCOA.

How about this...in order to sign up as DPS you have to have at least 3,000 weapon/spell damage & 18-20k health? If not you can que up as the new 'useless AF' category.

starkerealm · March 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Of course, personally when I queue for a random dungeon 9 times out of 10 I'll queue just as a tank, because I prefer to do that anyway, and the queue times are sufficiently short for a tank...

And, that would be why some of these players queue for tank. Shorter queue times, because if they get a team, "it'll all work out, right?"

When I say "I prefer to do that anyway" I don't mean that I prefer to queue as a tank, I mean that I prefer to tank dungeons rather than DPS or heal...

Yeah, no, sorry, I wasn't talking about you. I was suggesting that side benefit is the entire reason they queue as tanks, especially when they're not. I understand the joys of tanking.

SahrotRein · March 2016

I do this myself and I don't feel ashamed of it - I tick all roles and 100% of the time get filled into Tank role. Now bear in mind that I only practice this method in normal dungeons, I'd never ruin vet. dungeon for other people this way.

But considering the other 2 DDs could be around 30lv and just not have enough DPS, we wouldn't be even able to finish it if I was that V16 tank instead of DD.
Therefore I as a V16 DD have no problem getting all the group through normal dungeons.

Feels like a little confession

edit: to OP, well everybody have said it by now so I just wanted to give my own experience

UrQuan · March 2016

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Of course, personally when I queue for a random dungeon 9 times out of 10 I'll queue just as a tank, because I prefer to do that anyway, and the queue times are sufficiently short for a tank...

And, that would be why some of these players queue for tank. Shorter queue times, because if they get a team, "it'll all work out, right?"

When I say "I prefer to do that anyway" I don't mean that I prefer to queue as a tank, I mean that I prefer to tank dungeons rather than DPS or heal...

Yeah, no, sorry, I wasn't talking about you. I was suggesting that side benefit is the entire reason they queue as tanks, especially when they're not. I understand the joys of tanking.

Gotcha. I just wasn't quite sure which way you meant it... But yeah, that's definitely why some people who can't tank queue as tanks.

pecheckler · March 2016

Until the game gives players an "alt-spec" option which with the press of a button swaps champion point assignments, gear, skills, and selected morphs, then there will always be issues with tanks like this.

sirrmattus · March 2016

I've had a bow and board tank theory for a while. I would prob do great tho. Idk about other folk.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2016

Hey my Nightblade tanks with Sword and Shield and a bow.

Sword and Shield for actually tanking with one taunt and four heals and my Siphoning Attacks, buffs and AoEs on my bow bar don't die you can lay down great CCs with the bow with Bomband and the ranged light attacks kicks Siphoning Attacks up fast.

istateres · March 2016

Runaan wrote: »

I do this myself and I don't feel ashamed of it - I tick all roles and 100% of the time get filled into Tank role. Now bear in mind that I only practice this method in normal dungeons, I'd never ruin vet. dungeon for other people this way.

But considering the other 2 DDs could be around 30lv and just not have enough DPS, we wouldn't be even able to finish it if I was that V16 tank instead of DD.
Therefore I as a V16 DD have no problem getting all the group through normal dungeons.

Feels like a little confession

edit: to OP, well everybody have said it by now so I just wanted to give my own experience

I appreciate the honesty. Do you clue in your groups that you will not be tanking during these dungeon runs? While I disagree with your approach, I agree more DPS is better for most situations.

istateres · March 2016

Ran into a Lying Healer last night and I now believe they are worse than Lying Tanks. Why? Because 3 DPS and 1 Healer are doable but 4 DPS or 3 DPS and 1 Tank is a nightmare!

While I disagree with the stategy of "claiming" to be a Tank or Healer to get into a group faster; the second lie is worse. Don't tell the group you ARE a Healer or Tank (or that you have no idea why you were assigned that role) when all you can do is DPS. Own the first Lie!

Teridaxus · March 2016

Well what did you guys expect if you focus the game more and more on dps?

SlayerTheDragon · March 2016

Why only 2 dps?

If they were to introduce 3 dps with 1 tank and 1 healer (and adjust difficulty) it would help the queue times a bit.

But, until tanking is fixed (back to how it was...?), this is going to be an issue.

Another fix could be to have resistances scaled off max health, and spell/weapon damage scale of max magika/stamina. This will help to make tanks very tanky, but deal less damage, and dps more glass cannon.

Sugaroverdose · March 2016

istateres wrote: »

Yesterday I ran a Random Dungeon as a DPS. The "tank" was shockingly bad. They never pulled the boss. They often (mostly) used a bow. And they died easily.

I ran this dungeon with a friend. They agreed with me about the "tank". After much thought, we believe this was a DPS, who claimed to be a tank to get into a Random Dungeon quickly.

Thoughts? Anything we can do to prevent this in the future?

Last time i've run undaunted gold pledge in banished cells on magplar as healer we got 'tank' in heavy armor, but with dual wield and two handed, he all the time spammed flurry. In result i was forced to switch gear into pvp, place undaunted taunt, tank last boss, his daedroths and heal the party.

I think veteran dungeons has been nerfed somehow to allow such people to get reward for nothing.

Aspi90 · March 2016

I really hope most of you are talking about vet dungeons.
Normal dungeons aren´t that difficult, that you need every role, you can do most of them with 4 dps or even solo.

Steel_Brightblade · March 2016

I made a mistake the other week, I normally only do guild groups and don't use group find, it was only for a silver and we had 3dps and no one else about, so we decided to scale it and take what we got. I thought as we had 3 of us, a healer would be nice so clicked healer. We got a dps as it turned out I'd said my stamina sorc without vigour was the healer. Didn't matter we did the dungeon with only one death (the random fella) but it was a genuine mistake and this chap may have thought I had done as the OP started, specially since he didn't bother joining group chat.

Kippesnikke · March 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Get a guild a don't use the group finder?

yes. thank you.

Kreetar · March 2016

my only input here is that waiting in the queue as a dps has taken me more than an hour and a half. often times it takes at least 35 minutes. an excuse to lie and say I'm a tank? absolutely not, and I wait in queue until my 'proper' role is placed in a group. it can just take a ridiculous amount of time. I'm running into a lot of other players now who are saying that they're tank just to get into group. the whole thing is just frustrating so I'm torn between ripping them a new one and saying "I get it".

Vangy · March 2016

I stopped pugging in eso a loooong time ago. Too many special snowflakes who want to "play how they want". Offer any advice or ask any questions and you instantly become the devil himself for "giving advice when not asked for it." Sometimes I wonder if these people lock themselves in a basement living on Doritos or something. It's like even talking to them is dangerous in case you upset their bubble wrap feelings.

TLDR: don't pug. Make friends you can trust. Play with them. Profit.

CaptainBeerDude · March 2016

I thought this thread was aimed at me....

At least I slot a taunt when I'm tanking though.