[SUGGESTION] Solo Content to Help Teach You The Basics - Know Your Role!

TheM0rganism · February 2016

The ESO subreddit had a thread up about the wonderful Tanking Feedback post in this very fourm and one redditor brought up a good point:

Vakieh: There is zero solo content which teaches tanking in any way, shape, or form. Every tank therefore learns to tank by pissing off a group via incompetence.
IDK how to fix that though.

I threw out a simple idea, circumvent to the socially-awkward process that learning in a group is now, that seemed to spark a lot of positive feedback and upvoting to the point where someone asked me to post it here. So the idea goes:

there's no attempt to TEACH dungeon diving before jumping into group finder. Maybe make some kind of NPC group that you join in whichever role you picked? Literally, run with bots through two groups of mobs and a mini-boss that are threatening enough to warrant taunting/dps/heals. The 3 other npcs will DIE without your presence...like an additional Solo quest as a component to the main story.

BACKSTORY:

"Not so fast, Vestige. While you're soul-less form can handle the elements of the ethereal plane, the rest of us will need attunement from a shrine in a nearby cave before we can brave Molag Baal's forces in Coldharbour. Choose which role you'd like to serve on this quest..."

The companions will acclimate to your choice as:

Lyris Titanborn = Tank, or DPS if you tank
Abnur Tharn = Heal, or DPS if you heal
Sai Sahan = DPS, always

What do you think about a bonus Story Mission where you get to actually brave a delve with your fellow Companions?

Link to the Reddit thread.

EDIT: User jellicles, suggests "If you pass the healer, dps, or tank challenge, however remedial it may be, then, AND ONLY THEN, can you select that badge in the LFG tool."

Dagoth_Rac · February 2016

That is a great idea! Not sure it should be forced as part of Main Story, though. Maybe have it optional? Or offered by the Undaunted, either at the inns (lower level) or Undaunted Enclave (veteran). Have a special Undaunted NPC who could send you on solo training missions for each role. NPCs will die and mission fail if your tanking/DPS/heals are not good. No need to be great, just good. And NPCs will also be good, not great. Looking back at my early days in ESO, there were definite instances where my mediocre tanking or DPS were carried by excellent healing, although I don't think I realized it at the time.

TheM0rganism · February 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

That is a great idea! Not sure it should be forced as part of Main Story, though. Maybe have it optional? Or offered by the Undaunted, either at the inns (lower level) or Undaunted Enclave (veteran). Have a special Undaunted NPC who could send you on solo training missions for each role. NPCs will die and mission fail if your tanking/DPS/heals are not good. No need to be great, just good. And NPCs will also be good, not great. Looking back at my early days in ESO, there were definite instances where my mediocre tanking or DPS were carried by excellent healing, although I don't think I realized it at the time.

Exactly! It's like a dps/hps/taunting check to make sure you're not too jack-of-all-trades-y. I do like the idea of having it be a part of the enclave area, since you really shouldn't have to spec hard into a role until 45, but the idea of at least planting the seeds of grouping when you actually start Spindleclutch/Banished Cells/Fungal Grotto is more or less the exigency of my post.

Also, I want more sweaty, shirtless Sai action.

shootyoureyeout · February 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

That is a great idea! Not sure it should be forced as part of Main Story, though. Maybe have it optional? Or offered by the Undaunted, either at the inns (lower level) or Undaunted Enclave (veteran). Have a special Undaunted NPC who could send you on solo training missions for each role. NPCs will die and mission fail if your tanking/DPS/heals are not good. No need to be great, just good. And NPCs will also be good, not great. Looking back at my early days in ESO, there were definite instances where my mediocre tanking or DPS were carried by excellent healing, although I don't think I realized it at the time.

I love this idea so much. I never even bothered to learn how to tank or heal early on because I had no idea how and I was NOT about to go into a dungeon with a bunch of strangers & get yelled at for not knowing what I was doing. It would do so much good for players curious about doing other roles, or for those who want to make sure they are at least a little confident in their current role before trying to PUG a dungeon.

TheM0rganism · February 2016

shootyoureyeout wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

That is a great idea! Not sure it should be forced as part of Main Story, though. Maybe have it optional? Or offered by the Undaunted, either at the inns (lower level) or Undaunted Enclave (veteran). Have a special Undaunted NPC who could send you on solo training missions for each role. NPCs will die and mission fail if your tanking/DPS/heals are not good. No need to be great, just good. And NPCs will also be good, not great. Looking back at my early days in ESO, there were definite instances where my mediocre tanking or DPS were carried by excellent healing, although I don't think I realized it at the time.

I love this idea so much. I never even bothered to learn how to tank or heal early on because I had no idea how and I was NOT about to go into a dungeon with a bunch of strangers & get yelled at for not knowing what I was doing. It would do so much good for players curious about doing other roles, or for those who want to make sure they are at least a little confident in their current role before trying to PUG a dungeon.

This would let you taste the roles before deciding which is best for you.

jellicles · February 2016

@TheM0rganism Superb idea. The game offers crafting tutorial, which a player may take or leave, so why not provide a tutorial that teaches dungeon and/or raid mechanics. I do like the idea of using the Companions as a teaching vehicle. @ZOS_Finn please consider this suggestion.

jellicles · February 2016

@ZOS_Finn And why not certify players as tanks, healers, or what have you. A major complaint for LFG users is that players do not select the correct role, either by ignorance or malice, when joining a queue. If you pass the healer or tank challenge, however remedial it may be, then you can select that badge in the LFG tool. A tutorial sure beats the current kickoff for the current Undaunted skill line (where the player need only walk in the front door of a tier one group dungeon).

TheM0rganism · February 2016

jellicles wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn And why not certify players as tanks, healers, or what have you. A major complaint for LFG users is that players do not select the correct role, either by ignorance or malice, when joining a queue. If you pass the healer or tank challenge, however remedial it may be, then you can select that badge in the LFG tool. A tutorial sure beats the current kickoff for the current Undaunted skill line (where the player need only walk in the front door of a tier one group dungeon).

If I had a soul gem for every time someone in group finder selected all three roles and was capable of none of them...

jellicles · February 2016

Having said all this I appreciate that the voice talent provided for the Companions is probably no longer available. The idea is still sound, though, using whatever talent is available.

TheM0rganism · February 2016

jellicles wrote: »

Having said all this I appreciate that the voice talent provided for the Companions is probably no longer available. The idea is still sound, though, using whatever talent is available.

Totally acceptable (and logical) to have random Undaunted members in local Inns fill those roles, but yea...I'd love to make my husbando, Abnur, be my heal-slave

Vendrath · February 2016

This is one of the best ideas I've seen in a long time.

Alabyn · February 2016

Isn't there a fairly healthy debate going on about what exactly the healer role should be, and even the trinity in ESO more generally? I foresee a lot of controversy affecting the perceived legitimacy of a role certification, or the quality of training in an NPC quest.

Or worse, the resulting quest would be something rather too basic, such as the training quest offered when entering Cyrodiil for the first time. Certainly everyone agrees that that quest doesn't prepare a player for PvP.

All that poo-pooing aside, this is a proactive idea that reflects the OPs genuine love for the game. If some trip falls are avoided, this could keep new people playing (moolah @ZOS_JessicaFolsom!) in the dungeons and create a bridge between players of different skill levels.

Enodoc · February 2016

It's a great idea. I think this would be most easily incorporated by making it part of the Undaunted recruitment quest "One of the Undaunted". Change the requirements of that quest so that instead of just having to set foot inside the first zone's Group Dungeon by yourself (you don't even have to clear the dungeon to complete the quest), you are sent to an instanced dungeon with 3 NPCs.

Logically, these NPCs would be Turuk Redclaws, Mighty Mordra, and Kailstig the Axe, as they are the three recruiters. This would be a short instance introducing the group dungeon mechanics and would have you take on the role of tank, healer, ranged DPS and melee DPS in sequence. If you don't have the appropriate weapon/class skills, you would be temporarily given access to a resto staff and Grand Healing for the healer section, a mace/shield and Puncture for the tank section, a bow and Poison Arrow and/or a destro staff and Destructive Touch for the ranged DPS section (your choice of either or both), and a battle axe and Cleave and/or dual daggers and Twin Slashes for the melee DPS section (your choice of either or both). The three recruiters would take on the roles that you are currently not exploring so that the setup is always 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS.

In line with the suggestion above, successful completion of this short tutorial quest would be required to unlock the Dungeon Finder. Additional characters on the same account would not need to complete the quest again, but could if they wanted to.

Purdomination33 · February 2016

My main is a v16 Stam DK. After 8 months I just started to get into Vet Dungeons. Like most DK's I can switch between tank and DPS relatively easy.

So far my personal experience has been very positive overall. To help be clear with my PUG, I always ask if they need me to be a true tank or if it's cool that I stick w/my DPS setup and agro/taunt bosses when needed. If the group is decently experience v16's they are totally cool with DPS and pulling a boss when needed. Honestly it generally works out better that way. Group members have almost always been patient and helpful sharing tips on boss mechanics, what to do, what not to do, etc.

One thing I have noticed on this forum is that you do not hear tanks yelling at damage dealers to hit harder, stay out of AoE's, and take some blame onto themselves when things don't go as planned. Damage dealers can be giant divas at times. Tanking does involve skill and concentration. Resource management is not easy. Paying attention to all your buffs, self heals, keep up the taunt but have enough Stamina to dodge roll out of an AoE requires a good deal of concentration.

If find yourself always complaining about tanks then take it on yourself to become one! You might then realize why almost all tanks have to be hybrids. Who wants to spend the huge number of hours it takes to level up, gear up, etc. to have a toon capable of ONE THING. Your DPS toon can perform everywhere. A true tank can only perform its one role. So you are stuck with us hybrids.

If you want something done right better do it yourself.

Taryf · March 2016

I REALLLY needed something like that. I learn to use tank skills from guild-mates. In-game tutorial would helps a lot.

hrothbern · March 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

It's a great idea. I think this would be most easily incorporated by making it part of the Undaunted recruitment quest "One of the Undaunted". Change the requirements of that quest so that instead of just having to set foot inside the first zone's Group Dungeon by yourself (you don't even have to clear the dungeon to complete the quest), you are sent to an instanced dungeon with 3 NPCs.

Logically, these NPCs would be Turuk Redclaws, Mighty Mordra, and Kailstig the Axe, as they are the three recruiters. This would be a short instance introducing the group dungeon mechanics and would have you take on the role of tank, healer, ranged DPS and melee DPS in sequence. If you don't have the appropriate weapon/class skills, you would be temporarily given access to a resto staff and Grand Healing for the healer section, a mace/shield and Puncture for the tank section, a bow and Poison Arrow and/or a destro staff and Destructive Touch for the ranged DPS section (your choice of either or both), and a battle axe and Cleave and/or dual daggers and Twin Slashes for the melee DPS section (your choice of either or both). The three recruiters would take on the roles that you are currently not exploring so that the setup is always 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS.

In line with the suggestion above, successful completion of this short tutorial quest would be required to unlock the Dungeon Finder. Additional characters on the same account would not need to complete the quest again, but could if they wanted to.

+1

Number_51 · March 2016

I really really like this idea... a lot. And I don't want to take anything away from it or derail the topic, but for my group, I will say, the Wrothgar group bosses were a huge help to us in learning our roles. The addition of a solo quest like you've brought up, with role selection and NPCs filling out the other roles added to a Wrothgar-like group boss (with trash mobs, adds, some simple mechanic to figure out) would be fantastic.

RebornV3x · March 2016

Something like this should be a must for console players good idea.

failkiwib16_ESO · March 2016

*bump* this is actually an idea that the community would benefit greatly from, and it's probably easier to implement than so many other things. Specially what @Enodoc wrote is really good.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please say you're reading this thread Q.Q

I am well aware that healers and tanks as support role do multiple things, meanwhile the damage dealers focus on their role, but that's the more advanced players that do these things. Most new players I've met have no clue on how to do a group dungeon, and are often undergeared.

jmgrant44ub17_ESO · March 2016

Purdomination33 wrote: »

My main is a v16 Stam DK. After 8 months I just started to get into Vet Dungeons. Like most DK's I can switch between tank and DPS relatively easy.

So far my personal experience has been very positive overall. To help be clear with my PUG, I always ask if they need me to be a true tank or if it's cool that I stick w/my DPS setup and agro/taunt bosses when needed. If the group is decently experience v16's they are totally cool with DPS and pulling a boss when needed. Honestly it generally works out better that way. Group members have almost always been patient and helpful sharing tips on boss mechanics, what to do, what not to do, etc.

One thing I have noticed on this forum is that you do not hear tanks yelling at damage dealers to hit harder, stay out of AoE's, and take some blame onto themselves when things don't go as planned. Damage dealers can be giant divas at times. Tanking does involve skill and concentration. Resource management is not easy. Paying attention to all your buffs, self heals, keep up the taunt but have enough Stamina to dodge roll out of an AoE requires a good deal of concentration.

If find yourself always complaining about tanks then take it on yourself to become one! You might then realize why almost all tanks have to be hybrids. Who wants to spend the huge number of hours it takes to level up, gear up, etc. to have a toon capable of ONE THING. Your DPS toon can perform everywhere. A true tank can only perform its one role. So you are stuck with us hybrids.

If you want something done right better do it yourself.

I agree but off topic.

jmgrant44ub17_ESO · March 2016

jmgrant44ub17_ESO wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

My main is a v16 Stam DK. After 8 months I just started to get into Vet Dungeons. Like most DK's I can switch between tank and DPS relatively easy.

So far my personal experience has been very positive overall. To help be clear with my PUG, I always ask if they need me to be a true tank or if it's cool that I stick w/my DPS setup and agro/taunt bosses when needed. If the group is decently experience v16's they are totally cool with DPS and pulling a boss when needed. Honestly it generally works out better that way. Group members have almost always been patient and helpful sharing tips on boss mechanics, what to do, what not to do, etc.

One thing I have noticed on this forum is that you do not hear tanks yelling at damage dealers to hit harder, stay out of AoE's, and take some blame onto themselves when things don't go as planned. Damage dealers can be giant divas at times. Tanking does involve skill and concentration. Resource management is not easy. Paying attention to all your buffs, self heals, keep up the taunt but have enough Stamina to dodge roll out of an AoE requires a good deal of concentration.

If find yourself always complaining about tanks then take it on yourself to become one! You might then realize why almost all tanks have to be hybrids. Who wants to spend the huge number of hours it takes to level up, gear up, etc. to have a toon capable of ONE THING. Your DPS toon can perform everywhere. A true tank can only perform its one role. So you are stuck with us hybrids.

If you want something done right better do it yourself.

I agree but off topic.

Sorry, this came over from Reddit where the topic was worded differently. So you were on topic.

Hallothiel · March 2016

So agree with this. Play on console & so far have virtually done nothing with any groups (let alone venture into pvp territory) as am not sure what I should be doing when playing with others - and it may be too late as am VR9. And reading some threads on here hasn't made me any keener! Would love it if there was somewhere to learn. This would be particularly good for those that aren't used to MMOs.