Straight from the Director
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."3 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
ROFL
Everyone knows ESO is an MMO because that's what it is. Just like everyone knows our sky is blue.
Matt Firor is desperately trying to draw attention away from ESO's failings - with filthy language like saying it's success went "under the radar" and ESO isn't an MMO. And the problem is players' "pre-conceived notions" about MMOs - blaming players for his mistakes.
The simple truth is that ESO is a failure. Skyrim was a runaway success both critically and financially and they weren't shy about sharing those details. Not so with ESO. Matt could easily put ESO's "success" on the radar by giving us the numbers. How much did it cost to develop? How many copies have sold? How much money has it made? But he doesn't....
ESO is truly great in many respects and I've sung praise to those in other threads, but it's also just dreadful in others. Eg. it's not fun to spend half an hour a day shuffling items back and forth between alts. Not everyone likes magic. Having a class design which forces it on everyone alienates a huge number of potential players. That and even classes at all is also utterly antithetical to the HUGE Elder Scrolls fanbase who have enjoyed the freedom of character development typical to the single-player games.
I thought they'd learned their lesson with the perks mistake in Skyrim. So many players hated that restriction and used mods to get around it that eventually the company acknowledged the mistake and patched in unlimited perk points. After this they release ESO with an even more restrictive system (classes) and limited skill points. But this being an MMO potential players can't just mod away that mistake. It's live with it or don't play and most seem to have chosen the latter.
Me - I still don't think the game is anywhere near as good as it could be but I like what's been promised. Better inventory experience (eg. crafting bags). Housing. The long ago promised spellcrafting. I'm at least playing again and subbed at the moment to get at least a couple of characters ready for what might be. Though I'm not holding my breath and once I've maxed a few characters, may unsub to wait for these promises to be delivered.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
People who post on forums usually are more invested in the game. If you can be arsed going to the forums its likely youll stick around a bit longer. Also I wasnt talking about guilds falling apart. I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time.
Maybe those hundreds of people just decided that they didnt like your guild? Come on man you dont know anything about the numbers of people who have left. Making up these fallacies of "Oh entire guilds of 1000s of epople decimated" is simply hyperbole with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
I've been here from before launch, but because of the games flaws I never stuck around. Only came back recently to play through with my best freund.
We've been really hate the easy mode and solo missions that break us apart.
Then explain why ZOS should care anything about what you think. Considering you dont like the game. Havent been playing the game and obviously havent been paying them.1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
People who post on forums usually are more invested in the game. If you can be arsed going to the forums its likely youll stick around a bit longer. Also I wasnt talking about guilds falling apart. I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time.
Maybe those hundreds of people just decided that they didnt like your guild? Come on man you dont know anything about the numbers of people who have left. Making up these fallacies of "Oh entire guilds of 1000s of epople decimated" is simply hyperbole with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.
Let me repeat my previous post: I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time. The last guild I left last week or so had 330-ish members and the most recent log-in was 2 months ago. Shame the idea of taking a screenshot of the guild tab for the sake of a potential forum discussion didnt come to me. The hyperbole is yours, with 'guilds of 1000s' and 'decimated'. Its more like 'guilds of 100s' and 'ignored to do other things than ESO'.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on March 20, 2016 5:50AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
I've been here from before launch, but because of the games flaws I never stuck around. Only came back recently to play through with my best freund.
We've been really hate the easy mode and solo missions that break us apart.
Then explain why ZOS should care anything about what you think. Considering you dont like the game. Havent been playing the game and obviously havent been paying them.
Been subbed since I came back.0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That and even classes at all is also utterly antithetical to the HUGE Elder Scrolls fanbase who have enjoyed the freedom of character development typical to the single-player games.
I thought they'd learned their lesson with the perks mistake in Skyrim. So many players hated that restriction and used mods to get around it that eventually the company acknowledged the mistake and patched in unlimited perk points. After this they release ESO with an even more restrictive system (classes) and limited skill points. But this being an MMO potential players can't just mod away that mistake. It's live with it or don't play and most seem to have chosen the latter.
TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
That being said, I absolutely hate ESO's classes. They have basically nothing in common with the classes of previous titles, aside from name (nightblade, sorceror, templar) and sometimes not even that (dragonknight).
They should have created actual TES-based skill lines (illusion, destruction, conjuration, etc.) rather than the stuff we have now, but it's too late for that.
1 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
I've been here from before launch, but because of the games flaws I never stuck around. Only came back recently to play through with my best freund.
We've been really hate the easy mode and solo missions that break us apart.
Then explain why ZOS should care anything about what you think. Considering you dont like the game. Havent been playing the game and obviously havent been paying them.
Been subbed since I came back.
How long were you gone,and how long have you been back?
Just curious.Edited by Volkodav on March 20, 2016 10:23AM0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That and even classes at all is also utterly antithetical to the HUGE Elder Scrolls fanbase who have enjoyed the freedom of character development typical to the single-player games.
I thought they'd learned their lesson with the perks mistake in Skyrim. So many players hated that restriction and used mods to get around it that eventually the company acknowledged the mistake and patched in unlimited perk points. After this they release ESO with an even more restrictive system (classes) and limited skill points. But this being an MMO potential players can't just mod away that mistake. It's live with it or don't play and most seem to have chosen the latter.
TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
That being said, I absolutely hate ESO's classes. They have basically nothing in common with the classes of previous titles, aside from name (nightblade, sorceror, templar) and sometimes not even that (dragonknight).
They should have created actual TES-based skill lines (illusion, destruction, conjuration, etc.) rather than the stuff we have now, but it's too late for that.
Yeah,but in Morrowind you could create your own class with the skills you wanted.0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
That being said, I absolutely hate ESO's classes. They have basically nothing in common with the classes of previous titles, aside from name (nightblade, sorceror, templar) and sometimes not even that (dragonknight).
They should have created actual TES-based skill lines (illusion, destruction, conjuration, etc.) rather than the stuff we have now, but it's too late for that.
Yeah,but in Morrowind you could create your own class with the skills you wanted.[/quote]
Yeah, though it's actually since Daggerfall if I remember correctly. I wish they'd taken that route with ESO, but that didn't really happen.
I get why they didn't do it, though I still think they wasted the potential to create something unique and breathe fresh life into a dying genre.0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
That being said, I absolutely hate ESO's classes. They have basically nothing in common with the classes of previous titles, aside from name (nightblade, sorceror, templar) and sometimes not even that (dragonknight).
They should have created actual TES-based skill lines (illusion, destruction, conjuration, etc.) rather than the stuff we have now, but it's too late for that.
Yeah,but in Morrowind you could create your own class with the skills you wanted.
Yeah, though it's actually since Daggerfall if I remember correctly. I wish they'd taken that route with ESO, but that didn't really happen.
I get why they didn't do it, though I still think they wasted the potential to create something unique and breathe fresh life into a dying genre.[/quote]
I totally agree with you.If t hey had stuck to the original games ESO would have been beyond amazing. Dont get me wrong.I have no problems with it as it is.I love it.However,to have MW as an online game would be a dream come true for me and others here in the forums.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what made those games great as well as wait for it......UO!!
no classes just skill sets you could use, sure your gonna get cookie cutter builds, but with what we have now with classes its even more cookie cutter, i see the same set ups in every video.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what made those games great as well as wait for it......UO!!
no classes just skill sets you could use, sure your gonna get cookie cutter builds, but with what we have now with classes its even more cookie cutter, i see the same set ups in every video.
That is the problem when you mix competitive pvp play style - where all want to be basically on the same level - with RPG style, were all basically want to be individuals and unique - both do not mix very well, because they have different ways to look at nearly all aspects of gameplay in a fantasy world - a role player wants a lot of attributes and skills for his/her character and want those to count, whereas a competitive player wants his RL skills to count - both playstyles are contrary to each other. With more character creation options in regards to attributes, skills, perks or whatever the chance is increasing that the resulting builds are not "balanced" - that is exactly what RPG players desire, unique characters with strengths and weaknesses, whereas the competitive player wants it balanced, which basically means all have the same abilities and skills, just with different names and different animations - and that is what is causing the trouble, both do not mix very well.1 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
I've also seen a couple of trade guilds go silent, but it was always because the guild leader stops recruiting and moved on, leaving the guild to die a slow death, so players just dropped out of the guild. Further, even if you take all five maxed, that's ONLY 2500 people... a small drop in the bucket compared to the tens, if not hundreds of thousands, that are actively playing ESO. Also keep in mind that since many players play this game solo, they aren't playing in content guilds, they may not even be active in trade guilds. I'm a member of five trade guilds and most of them have a constant full 500 member roster, so no, I don't see guilds as being the best way to determine active players in ESO.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
People who post on forums usually are more invested in the game. If you can be arsed going to the forums its likely youll stick around a bit longer. Also I wasnt talking about guilds falling apart. I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time.
Maybe those hundreds of people just decided that they didnt like your guild? Come on man you dont know anything about the numbers of people who have left. Making up these fallacies of "Oh entire guilds of 1000s of epople decimated" is simply hyperbole with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.what made those games great as well as wait for it......UO!!
no classes just skill sets you could use, sure your gonna get cookie cutter builds, but with what we have now with classes its even more cookie cutter, i see the same set ups in every video.
That is the problem when you mix competitive pvp play style - where all want to be basically on the same level - with RPG style, were all basically want to be individuals and unique - both do not mix very well, because they have different ways to look at nearly all aspects of gameplay in a fantasy world - a role player wants a lot of attributes and skills for his/her character and want those to count, whereas a competitive player wants his RL skills to count - both playstyles are contrary to each other. With more character creation options in regards to attributes, skills, perks or whatever the chance is increasing that the resulting builds are not "balanced" - that is exactly what RPG players desire, unique characters with strengths and weaknesses, whereas the competitive player wants it balanced, which basically means all have the same abilities and skills, just with different names and different animations - and that is what is causing the trouble, both do not mix very well.
No, the problem is being online. PvP has nothing to do with it.
Devs would still have to balance the classes around PvE without a PvP system elsewise if a class is outperforming another class you'd have people playing that class only, forum uproar, and calls for nerfs.Edited by WalkingLegacy on March 20, 2016 2:30PM0 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lysette why are you setting squirrel tails on fire?You shouldn't do that they know where you live.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭SeptimusDova wrote: »Lysette why are you setting squirrel tails on fire?You shouldn't do that they know where you live.
Yes because everyone is going to fly to SA and ????
Have lunch with her? Take me to the drive through zoo!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
People who post on forums usually are more invested in the game. If you can be arsed going to the forums its likely youll stick around a bit longer. Also I wasnt talking about guilds falling apart. I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time.
Maybe those hundreds of people just decided that they didnt like your guild? Come on man you dont know anything about the numbers of people who have left. Making up these fallacies of "Oh entire guilds of 1000s of epople decimated" is simply hyperbole with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.what made those games great as well as wait for it......UO!!
no classes just skill sets you could use, sure your gonna get cookie cutter builds, but with what we have now with classes its even more cookie cutter, i see the same set ups in every video.
That is the problem when you mix competitive pvp play style - where all want to be basically on the same level - with RPG style, were all basically want to be individuals and unique - both do not mix very well, because they have different ways to look at nearly all aspects of gameplay in a fantasy world - a role player wants a lot of attributes and skills for his/her character and want those to count, whereas a competitive player wants his RL skills to count - both playstyles are contrary to each other. With more character creation options in regards to attributes, skills, perks or whatever the chance is increasing that the resulting builds are not "balanced" - that is exactly what RPG players desire, unique characters with strengths and weaknesses, whereas the competitive player wants it balanced, which basically means all have the same abilities and skills, just with different names and different animations - and that is what is causing the trouble, both do not mix very well.
No, the problem is being online. PvP has nothing to do with it.
Devs would still have to balance the classes around PvE without a PvP system elsewise if a class is outperforming another class you'd have people playing that class only, forum uproar, and calls for nerfs.
No, that is how competitive players see it - role players are fine with playing a character which is unique but might be weaker and have flaws - this is the interesting part of role play - to be able to play when you are NOT the best, but quite "normal". role players are fine with such flaws and balance is not what they seek, but uniqueness of their characters - and that is just given if those differ from others, not if they are alike.Edited by Lysette on March 20, 2016 6:11PM4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »SeptimusDova wrote: »Lysette why are you setting squirrel tails on fire?You shouldn't do that they know where you live.
Yes because everyone is going to fly to SA and ????
Have lunch with her? Take me to the drive through zoo!
Haha, that is what many think, when they come as tourists - oh, those baboons are so cute - until those baboons decide to take over their car and possessions - they are wild animals, not zoo animals - and so is all the rest of nature here - you are a bit careless with it and think it is zoo like and you are in real trouble or maybe even dead.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Yes, old players are leaving new players replace them. The question is: would you rather a game be designed to be good enough to keep people playing for a long time or to attract people's attention and quickly pull as much money as possible from their pockets before they move on? It seems the latter model is slowly becoming the norm and I cant say I like it.
But I've been playing well over a year and have no desire to leave, others here on the forums have also stated they've been here for years and have no desire to leave... so again I don't know where you come up with this belief that players are coming and going simply because some players on the forum post that they are leaving (funny how they're always leaving and yet constantly on the forums posting) or perhaps some in your guild has left... but those players are a fraction of a fractional percent of the number of players playing the game.
Ive seen about 6 guilds with hundreds of members go silent over time. Im still in one which I use as a 500 slot bank. There are like 200 people in the guild - last logged on months ago (over a year in many cases). So thats how I come up with the idea that people are going. Im much more inclined to think current ESO players who have been playing since the start are the fraction.
Yet everyone posting here has been around since the beginning. You know sometimes people just move on. typically if you can keep a mmo customer a year thats a huge accomplishment. Also sometimes guilds fall apart because of lack of leadership.
People who post on forums usually are more invested in the game. If you can be arsed going to the forums its likely youll stick around a bit longer. Also I wasnt talking about guilds falling apart. I was talking about guilds where hundreds of people stopped logging in over time.
Maybe those hundreds of people just decided that they didnt like your guild? Come on man you dont know anything about the numbers of people who have left. Making up these fallacies of "Oh entire guilds of 1000s of epople decimated" is simply hyperbole with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.what made those games great as well as wait for it......UO!!
no classes just skill sets you could use, sure your gonna get cookie cutter builds, but with what we have now with classes its even more cookie cutter, i see the same set ups in every video.
That is the problem when you mix competitive pvp play style - where all want to be basically on the same level - with RPG style, were all basically want to be individuals and unique - both do not mix very well, because they have different ways to look at nearly all aspects of gameplay in a fantasy world - a role player wants a lot of attributes and skills for his/her character and want those to count, whereas a competitive player wants his RL skills to count - both playstyles are contrary to each other. With more character creation options in regards to attributes, skills, perks or whatever the chance is increasing that the resulting builds are not "balanced" - that is exactly what RPG players desire, unique characters with strengths and weaknesses, whereas the competitive player wants it balanced, which basically means all have the same abilities and skills, just with different names and different animations - and that is what is causing the trouble, both do not mix very well.
No, the problem is being online. PvP has nothing to do with it.
Devs would still have to balance the classes around PvE without a PvP system elsewise if a class is outperforming another class you'd have people playing that class only, forum uproar, and calls for nerfs.
No, that is how competitive players see it - role players are fine with playing a character which is unique but might be weaker and have flaws - this is the interesting part of role play - to be able to play when you are NOT the best, but quite "normal". role players are fine with such flaws and balance is not what they seek, but uniqueness of their characters - and that is just given if those differ from others, not if they are alike.
This is exactly why I dont bother with the competitive PVE in this game. I just want to play the game. I dont want to have to use a slide rule to compute whats the best min/max setup for whatever. I just like to have fun. You can PVP and do trials etc without having the top gear. Granted I might not be the top guy (or even in the top 100 guys) but I have fun playing the game. Thats whats important to me. Other people enjoy the competitiveness and thats great that ZOS also gives them that option. Its just not for me.0 -
Benie✭✭✭From what I've been told, an MMO is a game where you can play your playstyle, but with other people. It's also encouraged to play with others and make friends. People that you can trust that know what they're doing, is the base of an MMO.
With that said, I'm a soloer. I've solo'd in WoW for 8 years (though occasionally did a few dungeons with other players. Even made a few friends). But my most favorite thing to so is soloing dungeons and raids, mainly for profit (and the feeling that I can pretty much handle everything).
I can understand how people see ESO not feeling like an MMO, and I can understand. But I see it as being based from the Single Player series with a Multiplayer aspect -- not a true MMO.
I'd prefer ESO would stay like this.. well, of course I'd love to see bugs fixed and class balancing.
But I don't feel the game "dying" anytime soon... unlike WoW.
Signed,
a PvE/Soloer person.Edited by Benie on March 20, 2016 6:31PM--Char info updated as of March 23rd, 2016 - PC NA--
Benie - VR1 Argonian Stam DragonKnight (2H Sword/Bow/WW)
Beniee - VR3 Nord Mag Sorcerer (Destruction Staff)
Well-known hotbar button spammer2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭From what I've been told, an MMO is a game where you can play your playstyle, but with other people. It's also encouraged to play with others and make friends. People that you can trust that know what they're doing, is the base of an MMO.
With that said, I'm a soloer. I've solo'd in WoW for 8 years (though occasionally did a few dungeons with other players. Even made a few friends). But my most favorite thing to so is soloing dungeons and raids, mainly for profit (and the feeling that I can pretty much handle everything).
I can understand how people see ESO not feeling like an MMO, and I can understand. But I see it as being based from the Single Player series with a Multiplayer aspect -- not a true MMO.
I'd prefer ESO would stay like this.. well, of course I'd love to see bugs fixed and class balancing.
But I don't feel the game "dying" anytime soon... unlike WoW.
Signed,
a PvE/Soloer person.
Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.0 -
BucMan55✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.
To paraphrase a Rift forum member, you can play WoW in ESO if you like, but why would you when you can play WoW in WoW.1 -
Benie✭✭✭
Just because I love soloing in dungeons, doesn't mean I want ESO to be a "WoW 2". I never said this.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.Edited by Benie on March 20, 2016 10:41PM--Char info updated as of March 23rd, 2016 - PC NA--
Benie - VR1 Argonian Stam DragonKnight (2H Sword/Bow/WW)
Beniee - VR3 Nord Mag Sorcerer (Destruction Staff)
Well-known hotbar button spammer0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
Not true.
Morrowind and Oblivion had something they called classes but which definitely weren't. All they did was provide something like a +5 / 10 / 15 to certain skills at the beginning of the game and determine which skills were used to calculate your level. They had no impact beyond that. Players could freely level and use any skill / spell / weapon and master everything with a single character.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes
IMO the levelling mechanic in those games was dinky and it was good Skyrim did away with that. But Skyrim (at launch) was more restrictive than both Oblivion and Morrowind because of the perk system. You could still level every skill but limited perk points meant you couldn't master everything with a single character. But so many players hated that and used the various mods to get around it that they officially patched in unlimited perk points with the legendary system.
And yet, in what not surprisingly turned out to be a vain attempt to appeal to the "class-lovers" of other MMOs, they ignored their MASSIVE elder scrolls fanbase and put classes in ESO.1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Just because I love soloing in dungeons, doesn't mean I want ESO to be a "WoW 2". I never said this.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.
Did you not read where I said "I do not mean you"?0 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »From what I've been told, an MMO is a game where you can play your playstyle, but with other people. It's also encouraged to play with others and make friends. People that you can trust that know what they're doing, is the base of an MMO.
With that said, I'm a soloer. I've solo'd in WoW for 8 years (though occasionally did a few dungeons with other players. Even made a few friends). But my most favorite thing to so is soloing dungeons and raids, mainly for profit (and the feeling that I can pretty much handle everything).
I can understand how people see ESO not feeling like an MMO, and I can understand. But I see it as being based from the Single Player series with a Multiplayer aspect -- not a true MMO.
I'd prefer ESO would stay like this.. well, of course I'd love to see bugs fixed and class balancing.
But I don't feel the game "dying" anytime soon... unlike WoW.
Signed,
a PvE/Soloer person.
Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.
I see this everywhere. Calling games WoW clones, especially given WoW is largely a "clone" itself, has always annoyed me. People are always going to take elements of successful games and that's fine. That doesn't make everything under the sun a WoW clone just because it has a few familiar features. Going into ANY game expecting it to be another game is a recipe for disappointment.0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »From what I've been told, an MMO is a game where you can play your playstyle, but with other people. It's also encouraged to play with others and make friends. People that you can trust that know what they're doing, is the base of an MMO.
With that said, I'm a soloer. I've solo'd in WoW for 8 years (though occasionally did a few dungeons with other players. Even made a few friends). But my most favorite thing to so is soloing dungeons and raids, mainly for profit (and the feeling that I can pretty much handle everything).
I can understand how people see ESO not feeling like an MMO, and I can understand. But I see it as being based from the Single Player series with a Multiplayer aspect -- not a true MMO.
I'd prefer ESO would stay like this.. well, of course I'd love to see bugs fixed and class balancing.
But I don't feel the game "dying" anytime soon... unlike WoW.
Signed,
a PvE/Soloer person.
Well thats good because ESO is not just a WoW knock off. I dont get people (and I dont mean you) who come here wanting this to be basically WoW 2. No wonder they are disappointed.
I see this everywhere. Calling games WoW clones, especially given WoW is largely a "clone" itself, has always annoyed me. People are always going to take elements of successful games and that's fine. That doesn't make everything under the sun a WoW clone just because it has a few familiar features. Going into ANY game expecting it to be another game is a recipe for disappointment.
Being a "clone"of a good game is never a bad thing if your mimicking the good things and/or expanding upon them.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TES always had classes, TES V: Skyrim was the first title in the series without classes.
Morrowind and Oblivion had something they called classes but which definitely weren't. All they did was provide something like a +5 / 10 / 15 to certain skills at the beginning of the game and determine which skills were used to calculate your level. They had no impact beyond that. Players could freely level and use any skill / spell / weapon and master everything with a single character.
This is true... Recent Elder Scrolls classes were more like starting templates. ESO is the first Elder Scrolls game with a strictly enforced class system using active combat skills. I expected ZOS and ESO to use the Elder Scrolls skill ideology, but never got it. Rigid classes are, as I see it, a concession to the MMO players, who get a rigid class system with active slotted class abilities, so that they see in ESO something of what they expect to see in an MMO. The action bar and the Trinity are all familiar for an MMO player, while the Elder Scrolls combat, used in Skyrim and older, would not be seen as an "MMO" by many players.
The Elder Scrolls games, in general, seem to be heading in a direction that ESO also seems to be following. While the class and active skill system from ESO is not something I expect to see in TES 6, both Skyrim and ESO are an indication of continued revision of the RPG aspect of the game franchise. The Skyrim skill system introduces perks, which are cousins to the ESO morphing system more than the Oblivion skill system. In this manner, players pick benefits for their character directly rather than increasing a base statistic that spans multiple benefits. I think that the days of the old style Elder Scrolls skills are long gone. I doubt that TES 6 will backpedal, and might even introduce more active skill perks that expand on the power attacks from Skyrim.From what I've been told, an MMO is a game where you can play your playstyle, but with other people. It's also encouraged to play with others and make friends. People that you can trust that know what they're doing, is the base of an MMO.
I do not see it like that. MMO games are not about personal play styles but are about multi-player play styles. Personal styles take a back seat when in conflict.
Firor is right about the game. It is not a traditional MMO, and I doubt it ever will be. They have taken the online RPG path, which accepts the challenge of working to reduce the conflicts between single player play styles and the multi-player nature of the game. It is a challenge, and it is hard to do. They have recently backed off from some single player immersion in order to better serve the multi-player nature of the game. I call this the right decision. ESO is a multi-player game first, and a single player friendly game second. Note that I say multi-player game, not MMO game.
Whatever ZOS can do to build upon the multi-player nature of the game, and I do not mean MMO nature of the game, will ultimately build the social aspect of the game for both the single player and multiplayer people who play the game. This means enhancing the means by which people group to complete objectives, formally and informally, and how they socially interact with others in the game.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w