Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/03/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-making-games-of-this-type-is-really-really-hard-5730186/?hootPostID=34f57f59cdb3f4770edfc2f3a7b9940e

No more arguing. ESO is not an MMO. It's an online RPG.


/Discuss the article here

No,he just said that ESO wasnt a "traditional MMO",and that it was a "Hybrid",and "kind of like an online RPG"
He didnt say it was NOT an MMO at all.
These are his own words:

"Again, we’re not really a traditional MMO, we are much more of a hybrid, kind of like an ‘online RPG’. The term MMO is freighted with a lot of pre-conceived notions, most of which are outdated and obsolete."

Go through the thread and read and then explain what a traditional MMO is.

Then explain why ESO is not one.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Have to be honest; I really don't see what points you're trying to make here. Are you strung up that the director doesn't refer to it as an MMO while others are referring to it as an MMO?

I don't see that ESO has a "confused identity", it's doing what it's doing rather decently. Be it an MMO or an Online RPG, it's more or less the same thing. So I'm having a problem understanding what point you're trying to get across.

Read the article.

Play the game. See that the points he makes contradict any interpretation of " traditional mmo" from him or other players.

I've read the article and I am playing the game, and I still don't see how this "contradicts" anything. As I've said, MMO definitions aren't build in solid rock and they've changed massively over the years. They define their game as an Online RPG, though it's by many defined as an MMORPG (which is why you find it on the game list on resource pages such as www.mmorpg.com).

So please be a bit more specific in which way he contradicts a "traditional mmo", and also what defines a "traditional mmo". I've been around MMOs for years now and I've yet to see any straight definition of a "traditional MMO". It seem to change every time a new MMO is released, though, many of the "traditional" MMOs these days are defined as WoW clones, which in terms is Everquest clone.

Volkodav wrote: »

Selstad wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I read through this thread,as I did the interview,and here is what HE says,which is what the OP was referring to::

"What has happened in the last decade is that the term MMO doesn’t really mean anything by itself any more. Most games are online at this point, and some of them are pretty massive, but wouldn’t be considered MMOs by 2004 criteria (like Grand Theft Auto, Minecraft, etc.)."

I didnt say I know what a traditional MMO is.Not at all.I just play them.I dont try to define them.That's not my job.I made a comment,as did you.

I think that using "traditional MMO" is a rather backside way of approaching it, we don't have any "clear" definition on what makes up an MMO these days, so making up what a "traditional MMO" is, would be even more difficult.

Matt Firor does have a point though - and as you quote as well - that MMO doesn't really mean anything by itself any more. It's what we as players are looking for that defines the game, and that goes a bit broader than a acronym that's undefinable. It's not like "FPS" or "RPG" that has some rather distinct traits to it, "Massive Multiplayer Online" becomes too vague in today's technological age, since a good deal of the games fulfil that definition.

Right.Matt says that ESO isnt a traditional MMO.It's different. I think he means traditional in the sense of WoW,or GTA,or even Tera. Just to see what it is that makes ESO so special,I DLed a few other MMOs besides the ones I mentioned here.I found that they were all wanting.Each one had no depth,no life or warmth.It was like going through worlds that were devoid of other than flat empty questing without anything more to give.
There's something that ESO has that other MMOs do not.What that is will be different for each of us,but it is home to me.And I cant find that anywhere else.
I've only gotten that out of one other game. Morrowind.

You're hinting at other games for traditional but the only thing I take away differently when in comparison of those is that almost all content can be solo'd, the combat system is different from WoW, and of course the Auction system vs Guild House.

I've easily sunk 5,000 hours into Morrowind. ESO is nothing like Morrowind or any of the TES games. The lore is the same, and the visuals are similiar - and that is it. You can't compare a themepark game to sandbox games and say they're the same.

GTA is not an MMO.

So what makes a traditional MMO?

MikeB wrote: »

That's a bunch of BS. MMO literally means Massively Multiplayer Online and by that meaning ESO is literally an MMORPG, just like WoW and Guild Wars. Well I guess it's not massively as not a lot of people play it.

Just shows Wrobels not the only one without a clue, even the director of ESO doesn't know what he's talking about (imo).

The point is that there are people posting "ESO should be like X because it is an MMO and MMOs have X". People thinking that way are mistaken. Don't claim that ESO must be a certain way because it is an MMO.

If people would stop promoting that erroneous logic, there wouldn't be a need for such statements.

It's an MMO. It might not follow the traditional rules of pre-2004 MMOs but it is still an MMO. A fantasy novel doesn't stop being fantasy because it avoids the cliches of older fantasy novels like Lord of the Rings.

An MMO can be a lot of things, an RPG, an RTS, an FPS, etc. as long as it follows the principle of multiple players within the same instanced world.

Anzriel wrote: »

He's just saying it isn't a pre-defined game and that they want the game to be unique and their own rather than following solely along pre-defined paths of previous games. He's saying he doesn't want this to end up being viewed as yet another WoW clone. That's really it. If it makes you guys feel so much better feel free to call it an egg-salad sandwich for all I care. It doesn't matter at all.

No it doesn't matter. Exactly right. So why even care what people label it as? It isn't going to change the identity at all. Game released in 2014....thousands of games came before it....it is going to be similar to many of them no matter how much they don't want it to be.



And,
I just want to say, there is nothing wrong with being a WoW clone as long as you do it better

And more . . .

Give players a system to interact with other players in a RP manner. Make it so guilds can have alliances, declare war on each other, and do other things of that nature.

I dont get it, ESO is one of the game what could be called MMO easily due to Cyrodil, not to mention zone design is quite MMOish too. I think he hints about the future of the genre, so Division and Destiny or even Conan Exiles are the way? Somekind of troll-bait this is anyway, I find it so odd he isnt defending his own game.

I liked Division myself, I could have kept paying Division but I sold it yesterday. Destiny can burn.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ilterendi wrote: »

Craplorn needs a re-release after a major overall/rework. That zone is terrible design.

I agree. I dont know anyone who has done the craglorn quests.

I'm about to do them with my BFF. I'll let all you anti grouping socialists know how it is.

Note: All of this nonsense is my two cents.. aka, my opinion.

I do feel ESO lacks a few things, and also is a bit too focused on Roleplaying. Look at the Crown Store, and all of those costumes. And even the pets. Yes, WoW has pets on their store too... but at least most of their pets are acquired by quest rewards.. well, more or less.
I rather have a Guar pet instead of a pair of pants that my class doesn't need.

I have nothing against Roleplayers, by the way. They don't bug me, and I let them do their thing.
But what I'd like to see is more useful things in the Crown Store.. instead of more costumes that only Roleplayers would buy to show to their friends and/or Guildies. What about to be able to change your class or race? Or even just being able to re-customize your char's skin?
Things like this (to me) would be worth getting and spending crowns on.
Right now, I have no ... real feeling of spending my limited crowns (or even wasting more money on this game besides my ESO+ subscription).

Yet I haven't heard of any real issues with the economy. So... *shrug*

Let me repeat what is often described to me when people talk about what an MMO is (or rather, was)... "group content" pure and simple. Which is why those outdated thinkers raise such a stink when people talk about playing an 'MMO' solo; that an MMO shouldn't have solo content and you should be able to do things solo. That is often the most common mindset when old school MMO players discuss what a "traditional" MMO is.

Thus, I think Matt is saying, what I have, that the MMO players of yesterday are not the same MMO players of today, and thus, the old-school concept of an MMO is outdated as today's MMO players are not only casual players, but also, solo-oriented players. Thus, ESO is not a 'traditional' MMO in revolving around group content, instead it embraces the new MMO players by offering soloable content and the ability to go at your own pace, for casual players... while still offering some of the more 'traditional' content found in regular MMOs. Just my opinion.

Lysette wrote: »

something like that, yes - it is near to what he said towards the end - that MMO refers nowadays more to the technology behind it than to a certain play style or game concept.

That's exactly right, which is something the old-school MMO purists have been in denial of for the past couple of years. They still stick to the out-dated "MMOs are all about group content" mentality when in fact that is no longer the case. "Massively Multiplayer Online" simply means a massive amount of players playing the same game at the same time- not specifically or exclusively GROUP content... but they refuse to accept this and instead like to berate anyone who plays an MMO solo or doesn't enjoy group content. This is why I'm glad Matt did this interview and stated, for all to see, that the term MMO has indeed evolved into more than just revolving around a game concept focusing on group content.