You were right - Radiant Destruction

Joy_Division · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Thank you @Joy_Division

I honestly don't get why people are so upset. Most of the time half of the dmg was wasted overflow dmg cause the target was under 10% HP. If the final tick does more dmg than your remaining HP you have to remove the overflow dmg cause it didn't do anything. If you looked at the real numbers it doesn't look unbalanced at all.

However because it's a channel it can function like Sorcs execute and kill you unexpectedly because someone OTHER than the Templar lowered your HP to execute range and then the beam ramps up FAST. Still though, even in group vs group content I don't feel it's out of line as there are multiple counters and it even tells you WHO to counter.

Credit goes to @Mrs_Quietus for this list. It's not mine.

People get upset because they don't like dying. Before the patch they thought it was "fine" that a templar would be immobile and defenseless while casting a skill they could dodge with impunity and then be out of range. That was "fine" because even though it screwed over templars, they did not die so they could go to sleep thinking they were badass PvP players.

Now because their old techniques aren't effective, the game should be rolled back rather than they should adapt.

Just because I am a templar doesn't mean I don't get attacked with this ability or have to counter it. Personally I am glad there is the perception that it is OP since that means more templars are apt to spam it and it makes them easier to defeat.

Lightninvash · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Thank you @Joy_Division

I honestly don't get why people are so upset. Most of the time half of the dmg was wasted overflow dmg cause the target was under 10% HP. If the final tick does more dmg than your remaining HP you have to remove the overflow dmg cause it didn't do anything. If you looked at the real numbers it doesn't look unbalanced at all.

However because it's a channel it can function like Sorcs execute and kill you unexpectedly because someone OTHER than the Templar lowered your HP to execute range and then the beam ramps up FAST. Still though, even in group vs group content I don't feel it's out of line as there are multiple counters and it even tells you WHO to counter.

yeah the beam is a clear indicator for any bow user haha or sorcs for cf. remember back in the day when beams were broken and you could RD people with an invisible beam hahaha those were the day no one countered back then lol

It's not like we're invisible! Hahaha we paint ourselves in golden light like a beacon! COME KILL US! I'M A TEMPLAR!!! Lol

Edit: RD leaves you SUPER open to ANYONE too...no defense at all. I love it when they try to burn my Stamplar at full HP.

yeah if we use any skill it is very noticeable hey bol look a Templar kill it. RD we stand there leaning over with a golden beam oh look Templar. all the skills are very flashy and easy to spot the originator even in a zerg. which sucks but hey I like the challenge.

Mrs_Quietus · March 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is no issue with countering RD. The issue is countering RD while being busy doing smth else. This is mostly true for stamina builds who are used to roll dodge at low health in order to get some breathing room. Esecially against multiple opponents. This is not possible with Rd and people hate ot for it. And so do I.

yep. first instinct is to roll dodge or cloak. neither can stop RD

You can cloak it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

sirrmattus · March 2016

Mrs_Quietus wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is no issue with countering RD. The issue is countering RD while being busy doing smth else. This is mostly true for stamina builds who are used to roll dodge at low health in order to get some breathing room. Esecially against multiple opponents. This is not possible with Rd and people hate ot for it. And so do I.

yep. first instinct is to roll dodge or cloak. neither can stop RD

You can cloak it.

NO YOU CANT

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

itscompton wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

It isnt a bias opinion. I normally main a templar. This overpowered execute is ridiculous. You guys defense is, "this is op and thats op so whats wrong with radiant being op?"

No, we've pointed out it is not OP and functions in a similar manner to other executes you just refuse to admit there is a possibility you are wrong. Blabafat admitted he was wrong, why can't you? You have tons of options to stop it. Your argument makes it seem like you want to 1vX against multiple people/Templar's and not have to worry about RD despite the fact is has numerous counters. If you ignore a Magic Templar in a 1vX they are going to execute you as soon as you hit 30% period. Just like ANYONE would with any execute. You want to be able to dodge roll it but ZOS has decided it should not be dodge-rollable. Use one of the other counters. Lure your opponents into an area where you can manipulate line of sight for an advantage. Don't stand out in the open and 1vX against 3 Templar's, it's really quite simple.

im not the one crying about 1vX multiple templars. Its very simple the skill does too much damage. No other skill can do 19k in pvp besides overload, but it can be reflected and dodged.

LOL on the no other skill can do 19k in three seconds. Tons of skills can do that much damage or more. WB, Frags, overload, dark flare, focused aim (which has a much longer range and has no animation to tell you where you getting attacked from), Surprise attack etc. etc.

Soul Assault can hit for 48,000 on my character in roughly the same amount of time. I've heard rumors of 70,000.

AfkNinja · March 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

Is your 10k DMG after battle spirit? Lets assume it is. That means with MAX execute bonus and MAX magicka on Radiant Oppression you'd do 37,000 dmg over 3~ seconds for 12,333 dps. 12k DPS is overpowered? This is also assuming you got the MAXIMUM 370% bonus and doesn't factor in your opponents resists. Sorry, I disagree that 12k dps or less is OP considering you will not be getting the full 370% bonus 100% of the time which means your actual DPS with it is lower. Especially if like a new player you are applying it to them at 100% hp. Also consider that the last tick does the most dmg but most of that dmg is overflow which means it did nothing and should not be included in your DPS calculations.

Edit: Thank you for your numbers. I still would love to see a screen shot of the actual dmg per tick in the combat log people are getting.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

Is your 10k DMG after battle spirit? Lets assume it is. That means with MAX execute bonus and MAX magicka on Radiant Oppression you'd do 37,000 dmg over 3~ seconds for 12,333 dps. 12k DPS is overpowered? This is also assuming you got the MAXIMUM 370% bonus and doesn't factor in your opponents resists. Sorry, I disagree that 12k dps or less is OP considering you will not be getting the full 370% bonus 100% of the time which means your actual DPS with it is lower. Especially if like a new player you are applying it to them at 100% hp. Also consider that the last tick does the most dmg but most of that dmg is overflow which means it did nothing and should not be included in your DPS calculations.

Edit: Thank you for your numbers. I still would love to see a screen shot of the actual dmg per tick in the combat log people are getting.

I'm "working" right now so I can't take a screenshot. Those numbers were from last night while I was in Wrothgar so no battle spirit would apply. Everything I posted was as accurately as I could reasonably remember it without being in front of my XBox. I think my full magic is 40208 and I recall my spell damage being 3088 after the entropy buffs.

On a side note my magicka recover is around 900 so there are plenty of drawbacks as well.

As for the DPS, we don't have a DPS calculator on XBox so I honestly don't know what a "good DPS" number should be. Your numbers seem pretty spot on to me though.

AfkNinja · March 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

Is your 10k DMG after battle spirit? Lets assume it is. That means with MAX execute bonus and MAX magicka on Radiant Oppression you'd do 37,000 dmg over 3~ seconds for 12,333 dps. 12k DPS is overpowered? This is also assuming you got the MAXIMUM 370% bonus and doesn't factor in your opponents resists. Sorry, I disagree that 12k dps or less is OP considering you will not be getting the full 370% bonus 100% of the time which means your actual DPS with it is lower. Especially if like a new player you are applying it to them at 100% hp. Also consider that the last tick does the most dmg but most of that dmg is overflow which means it did nothing and should not be included in your DPS calculations.

Edit: Thank you for your numbers. I still would love to see a screen shot of the actual dmg per tick in the combat log people are getting.

I'm "working" right now so I can't take a screenshot. Those numbers were from last night while I was in Wrothgar so no battle spirit would apply. Everything I posted was as accurately as I could reasonably remember it without being in front of my XBox. I think my full magic is 40208 and I recall my spell damage being 3088 after the entropy buffs.

On a side note my magicka recover is around 900 so there are plenty of drawbacks as well.

As for the DPS, we don't have a DPS calculator on XBox so I honestly don't know what a "good DPS" number should be. Your numbers seem pretty spot on to me though.

If it was in Wrothgar you could expect to hit HALF that hard in PVP. AKA 6k dps which is not over powered. Thanks for throwing up your numbers though.

vamp_emily · March 2016

oh $#@!

I used radiant destruction and blew up my house. Now that is OP

Brrrofski · March 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Or like the 20meter self empowered WBs
Or like 25k shields
Or like fear
Or like "I am a stamina nightblade, I can only use cloak 7 times in a row"
Or like...

someone please continue these were the first ones that came to my mind.

your making stuff up. none of that is possible in pvp. no sorc can get 25k shield in pvp. no stam nb can cloak 7 times much less 3

You can easilly get to 20k with hardened, harness and healing ward.

Stam NBs can cloak 4, maybe 5 times if using drinks.

you are aware radiant blocks you from being cloaked right

I am indeed. My post at no point mentioned cloaking a RD. Just addressing someone who said you can onlycloak 2-3 times on a Stam build.

Waffennacht · March 2016

itscompton wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

It isnt a bias opinion. I normally main a templar. This overpowered execute is ridiculous. You guys defense is, "this is op and thats op so whats wrong with radiant being op?"

No, we've pointed out it is not OP and functions in a similar manner to other executes you just refuse to admit there is a possibility you are wrong. Blabafat admitted he was wrong, why can't you? You have tons of options to stop it. Your argument makes it seem like you want to 1vX against multiple people/Templar's and not have to worry about RD despite the fact is has numerous counters. If you ignore a Magic Templar in a 1vX they are going to execute you as soon as you hit 30% period. Just like ANYONE would with any execute. You want to be able to dodge roll it but ZOS has decided it should not be dodge-rollable. Use one of the other counters. Lure your opponents into an area where you can manipulate line of sight for an advantage. Don't stand out in the open and 1vX against 3 Templar's, it's really quite simple.

im not the one crying about 1vX multiple templars. Its very simple the skill does too much damage. No other skill can do 19k in pvp besides overload, but it can be reflected and dodged.

LOL on the no other skill can do 19k in three seconds. Tons of skills can do that much damage or more. WB, Frags, overload, dark flare, focused aim (which has a much longer range and has no animation to tell you where you getting attacked from), Surprise attack etc. etc.

Im quoting this because its commoj statement.

No frag hits for 38k in PvE that's stupid.

The only things that hit that hard are ults, RO, and Proxy det. I've never seen WB hit for over 30k in PvE.

About shield stacking: why would you compare 3 abilities to 1 attack? If you want a fair comparison it should be x3 attacks, like heavy attack WB ha which can be done just as fast as a stack and deals roughly the same amount of damage.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

Is your 10k DMG after battle spirit? Lets assume it is. That means with MAX execute bonus and MAX magicka on Radiant Oppression you'd do 37,000 dmg over 3~ seconds for 12,333 dps. 12k DPS is overpowered? This is also assuming you got the MAXIMUM 370% bonus and doesn't factor in your opponents resists. Sorry, I disagree that 12k dps or less is OP considering you will not be getting the full 370% bonus 100% of the time which means your actual DPS with it is lower. Especially if like a new player you are applying it to them at 100% hp. Also consider that the last tick does the most dmg but most of that dmg is overflow which means it did nothing and should not be included in your DPS calculations.

Edit: Thank you for your numbers. I still would love to see a screen shot of the actual dmg per tick in the combat log people are getting.

I'm "working" right now so I can't take a screenshot. Those numbers were from last night while I was in Wrothgar so no battle spirit would apply. Everything I posted was as accurately as I could reasonably remember it without being in front of my XBox. I think my full magic is 40208 and I recall my spell damage being 3088 after the entropy buffs.

On a side note my magicka recover is around 900 so there are plenty of drawbacks as well.

As for the DPS, we don't have a DPS calculator on XBox so I honestly don't know what a "good DPS" number should be. Your numbers seem pretty spot on to me though.

If it was in Wrothgar you could expect to hit HALF that hard in PVP. AKA 6k dps which is not over powered. Thanks for throwing up your numbers though.

Yes, correct.

And, as we move from damage on a spreadsheet to how it works in actual battle.

1) Most VR16s can still survive 1 RO even in execution mode.
2) I have a very high kill count in PVP despite limited time to play however that is misleading because ...

A) You share kills in Cyrodiil so I credit for kills by my group mates and, I think, for people that I've recently killed.

Reflective light and using two staves allows me to tag opponents I get credit for killing when they die by someone else's hand a bit latter.
C) A significant majority of my kills with RO are because my opponents aren't being overly intelligent. The amount of people who engage in 1 on 1 battles while 100 people are 10 feet to the left is staggering. Seriously, sometimes I just look left and right and there are targets everywhere just asking to be melted because, for some reason, people expect a battle in Cyrodiil to be 100 1 v 1s and not 100 v 100.
3) If I allow a someone to get in melee range against me, than I screwed up and deserve to be wrecking blowed into 1 shot oblivion.

Whoever said earlier this anyone set up like this is giving up a ton of other things is right on. I have to equip 5 Mage guild spells in order to have RO be this good. I can't recover anything without a heavy attack, and everyone knows about Templars not having much in the way of escapeability. Also, you can't do anything else while using it so good luck as a healer.

I've chosen to be a glass cannon. It's on my opponents to stop me using one of the many ways I've left myself open.

So what's the best way to counter a Magicka Templar? Simple, hit them first and they are probably dead or burning through magic spamming BoL. If you see one spamming BoL and you end up dead afterwards you screwed up and deserve the RO you got for it.

dRudE · March 2016

In all fairness my mages wrath(sorc execute)feels a little more powerful too, maybe a change was made to executes and not just radiant destruction.

AfkNinja · March 2016

dRudE wrote: »

In all fairness my mages wrath(sorc execute)feels a little more powerful too, maybe a change was made to executes and not just radiant destruction.

CP changes likely. I believe Mages Wrath counts as a DOT because of the delayed explosion. If that is the case Tham now buffs it's dmg just like Radiant.

DisgracefulMind · March 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is no issue with countering RD. The issue is countering RD while being busy doing smth else. This is mostly true for stamina builds who are used to roll dodge at low health in order to get some breathing room. Esecially against multiple opponents. This is not possible with Rd and people hate ot for it. And so do I.

yep. first instinct is to roll dodge or cloak. neither can stop RD

Cloak will break the RD channel as long as mage light isn't being used on the NB.

DisgracefulMind · March 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Real math from an actual Magicka Templar with 250CP. I'm on XBox so none of the new buffs apply to this example.

1) Radiant Oppression 4 actually allows for executes under 50%, not 30%. This actually makes it a stronger opener than it's given credit for.
2) With mages guild 10 unlocked, casting entropy buffs up my damage on RO to just over 10k at 3.4 seconds. If you're under 50% I think the most I can hit you for is 37k without a crit. I guess the crit would bring it north of 50k but I'm unsure. It honestly doesn't matter because if you're at 50% there's a 95% chance you're already dead.
3) I have 40k Magic and all light armor. After the entropy buff my spell damage is just north of 3k. CPs make it so that I can midigate 17% of incoming spell damage, but a physical attack can 1 shot me. Hence why I stay 20 yards behind everyone else. Make no mistake I'm really squishy but spamming BoL helps this.
4) I built my character since launch around making RO hit as hard as possible. After it got nerfed in Orsinium my base damage went from like 11k to about 6k ruining my build. I was at VR10ish at the time. It took me 3 months of grinding and almost 1 million in VR16 gold gear to get back to where I was pre-nerf. If the new patch acts as intended it sounds like I'll be shooting laser beams from my eyes.
5) I will fully acknowledge that RO may actually be the most OP skill in the game, but if you listed the top 20 skills in all classes Templar has maybe 2 of them. Every other class has far more ways of killing opponents. Templar really doesn't.

At the end of the day, I'm excited that my build has become the new flavor of the month. I know it has some drawbacks but Templars were almost extinct in Cyrodiil. I will enjoy the ride while it lasts. I'm sure Dragon Knights will probably be next. Sorcs and NBs though, c'mon, you've been dominating for a solid year. You really don't have much room to be mad that Templars finally have a way to win a fight.

1. It states in the tooltip that targets below 50% health take up to 330% additional damage; so, yes, it's starting its bonus damage where it should.
2. Remember that channels cannot be empowered, so you're only buffing the spell damage.
3. Right, stamina has the highest damage output in the game at the moment. Which is why its silly that people are coming and complaining about a channeled skill lol.
4. My unbuffed damage tooltip is 14272, so add battle spirit to that. Not sure why this is OP for a channeled ability...
5. Given the right circumstances, it becomes one of the most lethal skills in the game, sure. But it depends on a lot of situational things for it to be that way. But you're right, Templars have basically three dps skills they slot on their bars because that's all that really works lol. And even then, it's much more difficult to kill enemies with a magicka Templar than a Sorc or Nightblade. I'd say the only ones who have almost the same problems are magicka DKs (stamina DKs are ridiculous, they have no issues killing anything).

sirrmattus · March 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is no issue with countering RD. The issue is countering RD while being busy doing smth else. This is mostly true for stamina builds who are used to roll dodge at low health in order to get some breathing room. Esecially against multiple opponents. This is not possible with Rd and people hate ot for it. And so do I.

yep. first instinct is to roll dodge or cloak. neither can stop RD

Cloak will break the RD channel as long as mage light isn't being used on the NB.

i dont think so man. i was testing with a templar yesterday and i couldnt cloak out of radiant

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

mag temps dont even need any other skill in pvp anymore

Gina said they already looked into this and you are wrong, It's working as intended. Don't let yourself get to 30% HP when fighting a Templar or they will execute you. Like pretty much EVERY CLASS WILL.

Dude, no class can hit you for 19k at 30% hp. Dont kid yourself
no class can hit for 19k in pvp period (except sorc overload, which can be dodged and reflected)

Most of that dmg is overflow dmg cause you were about to die anyway. You realize it's not an instant dmg ability yes? 19k+ dmg takes 2-3 ticks of Radiant, meanwhile there are options to stop it....

If you are at 30% hp pretty much any execute is going to do insane dmg, it's what they are designed to do. Executioner used 2-3 times will hit just as hard as Radiant when your opponent is at 30% or less hp.

Edit: Wouldn't even be an issue if they showed the individual ticks of damage instead of one combined recap.

Not to mention people don't want to include 'Block' or 'Interrupt' as a possible counter. I don't even use this skill and I think people are whining too much about it. If I get the time this week though I'll respec for it and see what the hubbub is, because its pretty rare an RD kills me and if it does I was dead anyway. In spirit I don't like the way they still leave Templar mitigation skills in the dump, leave their cc skills in the dump, but yay now we can dps. *Golfclap*. The whole class needs a fix but honestly if you can't kill a Templar you probably suck. Magic Templar is a sitting duck, if you interrupt this skill they are toast, even assuming their pathetic almost strong enough to block a light attack blazing shield protects some, you're still going to melt them. Templar is way overrated, which is saying something since people mostly underrate it. My point: Templar stinks worse than most people realize, and the fact that people are pissed it has 1 or 2 good skills out of 18 is ludicrous.

Most Templar skills root or slow you down. Most templar skills are channels or have ridiculously long cast times. Mitigation has short duration or forces you to stand in place. The class has *** for cc (javelin) and mobility. Oh but we have a class purge that has to be synergized for our team mates to use it (and we all know how well synergies work in this game). We have breath of life, we have repentance. I haven't played magic templar in some time because I didn't want to be a heal spammer, but please give those guys some slack. If it was so easy everyone would go Templar like they did Sorc, NB and DK. The thing is very few people go Templar unless they want to heal.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Bashev wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

mag temps dont even need any other skill in pvp anymore

Gina said they already looked into this and you are wrong, It's working as intended. Don't let yourself get to 30% HP when fighting a Templar or they will execute you. Like pretty much EVERY CLASS WILL.

Another nerf to the HP builds. You stuck HP to be tanky (not the case in ESO), then you drop under 30% (under 15k HP, almost as a Sorc total HP) and then boom, you are dead with 1 skill. @wrobel - that guy is so incompetent for PvP that it is not funny anymore.

You're not understanding what is happening when it is used against you cause the death recap only shows the total dmg.

Let's use an extreme example of someone with 42,000 hp, this is a LARGE amount of hp and most people will not have that much. 15,000 hp would be 35%. If you have 15,000 hp (35%) this is what happens when a Templar hits RD:

first tick: 5,000~8000, you are now at 23% hp or less (execute range)
second tick 10,000 dmg +

Most people don't have 42,000 hp however so let's use an example with 30,000.

15,000 hp of 30,000 is 50% of course. At 50% HP RD gets NO bonus.

First tick: 2,000 - 3,000 = 12,000~ hp left = 40%
Second tick 5,000 - 8,000 = 4,000 hp left ~ = 13%
Third tick: 15,000 dmg + = dead. You had 4k hp tho so most of the dmg was irrelevant.

This means you have more than a full second to stop the channel in almost all scenarios (bash or CC), heal or break line of sight. Most of the SS's i've seen of the "ridiculous" dmg was caused by the second/third tick of radiant hitting them when they are at less than 10% HP. If you're under 10% hp Radiant will hit like a nuke, however almost ALL of that dmg is wasted because you were about to die anyway.

Edit: 3K + 8k + 15k = 26,000~27,000 people are seeing. 3 full seconds.

I know exactly what is happening against me. I play with 45k hp and 3k magicka regen build. I try to be a PvP tank and provide my group with CC and debuffs. The problem is that the range of the skill is 36m in Cyro. Sometimes you have more than 2-3 ppl spamming the skill on you and they are just hoping that you will drop HP and then you die instantly. The skill is not anymore dodgable and @Wrobel forbade blocking (no stamina regen). Sadly I do not have 12k shield + 10k magicka shield. I reallize that templars need DPS but this is too much.

Well they do need to get Blocking more functional again. It is pretty ridiculous that you lose 100% of your stamina regeneration for holding up a shield, and really disadvantages players who have high stamina regeneration unnecessarily, particularly if those players are stamina builds.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Bashev wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

mag temps dont even need any other skill in pvp anymore

Gina said they already looked into this and you are wrong, It's working as intended. Don't let yourself get to 30% HP when fighting a Templar or they will execute you. Like pretty much EVERY CLASS WILL.

Another nerf to the HP builds. You stuck HP to be tanky (not the case in ESO), then you drop under 30% (under 15k HP, almost as a Sorc total HP) and then boom, you are dead with 1 skill. @wrobel - that guy is so incompetent for PvP that it is not funny anymore.

You're not understanding what is happening when it is used against you cause the death recap only shows the total dmg.

Let's use an extreme example of someone with 42,000 hp, this is a LARGE amount of hp and most people will not have that much. 15,000 hp would be 35%. If you have 15,000 hp (35%) this is what happens when a Templar hits RD:

first tick: 5,000~8000, you are now at 23% hp or less (execute range)
second tick 10,000 dmg +

Most people don't have 42,000 hp however so let's use an example with 30,000.

15,000 hp of 30,000 is 50% of course. At 50% HP RD gets NO bonus.

First tick: 2,000 - 3,000 = 12,000~ hp left = 40%
Second tick 5,000 - 8,000 = 4,000 hp left ~ = 13%
Third tick: 15,000 dmg + = dead. You had 4k hp tho so most of the dmg was irrelevant.

This means you have more than a full second to stop the channel in almost all scenarios (bash or CC), heal or break line of sight. Most of the SS's i've seen of the "ridiculous" dmg was caused by the second/third tick of radiant hitting them when they are at less than 10% HP. If you're under 10% hp Radiant will hit like a nuke, however almost ALL of that dmg is wasted because you were about to die anyway.

Edit: 3K + 8k + 15k = 26,000~27,000 people are seeing. 3 full seconds.

I know exactly what is happening against me. I play with 45k hp and 3k magicka regen build. I try to be a PvP tank and provide my group with CC and debuffs. The problem is that the range of the skill is 36m in Cyro. Sometimes you have more than 2-3 ppl spamming the skill on you and they are just hoping that you will drop HP and then you die instantly. The skill is not anymore dodgable and @Wrobel forbade blocking (no stamina regen). Sadly I do not have 12k shield + 10k magicka shield. I reallize that templars need DPS but this is too much.

You're complaining about being outnumbered and losing....seriously? You feel it's unfair for 2-3 Templar's to be able to kill you? Do you even realize Dark Flare will hit MUCH harder than radiant unless you are at 30% HP or less? If all 3 Temps were only using radiant it lowers their DPS...until you hit 30% hp, they were basically helping you survive longer. DF meanwhile can do insane dmg when buffed up and used as a DF -> DF -> Javelin -> execute. Be thankful they didn't know how to play Templar or they all would have just opened with DF on you and 1 shot you.

Edit: We didn't ask for more dmg, most Templar asked for passive changes/bug fixes and defensive utility fixes. Instead ZOS gave us more dmg ROFL.

There is a counter to Dark flare which is roll dodge and reflect. There is no real counter to RD. The problem with the ESO community is that most of the ppl defend their OP skills. It happens rarely some ppl as @blabafat who points out how broken are some skills for their class. That is why we will never have a balance in this game.

Actually its not overpowered, it just highlights the fact that they took a wrecking ball to the Block skill by nullifying all of your Stamina Regeneration for 4 seconds. Who the hell wants that in pvp? If they fix this issue, it'll be fine, more than fine.

boundsy88 · March 2016

the way it sounds is like the game is at the point when these overpowered things come into the game. the people playing the class with the overpowered skill only wants to start cheesing their play style because almost everyone else is doing it on their class. nightblades ambush spamming, dks one shot leaping and now templars only using radiant as offense and not even bothering to slot any other skills cause they realise how stupid powerful it is. cyrodiil is now just one giant block of cheese

AfkNinja · March 2016

boundsy88 wrote: »

the way it sounds is like the game is at the point when these overpowered things come into the game. the people playing the class with the overpowered skill only wants to start cheesing their play style because almost everyone else is doing it on their class. nightblades ambush spamming, dks one shot leaping and now templars only using radiant as offense and not even bothering to slot any other skills cause they realise how stupid powerful it is. cyrodiil is now just one giant block of cheese

Just so you are aware. Using Radiant at 100% hp is a HUGE DPS LOSS. HUGE.

Twing · March 2016

@boundsy88 LOL "one giant block of toe cheese"

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

The funny thing is if I was rebalancing the Magicka Templar I'd buff reflective light before RO. RL is a good skill in that it fires fast and hits 3 targets, but unless you are at the absolute max in power it pretty much tickles. If RO is the Templar's bazooka then RL is their handgun. Sad that it takes 200+ champion points and a full magic build to become even moderately impactful.

FortheloveofKrist · March 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Or like the 20meter self empowered WBs
Or like 25k shields
Or like fear
Or like "I am a stamina nightblade, I can only use cloak 7 times in a row"
Or like...

someone please continue these were the first ones that came to my mind.

your making stuff up. none of that is possible in pvp. no sorc can get 25k shield in pvp. no stam nb can cloak 7 times much less 3

Not true. A stam NB can cloak that many times with the right drink, passives, and the right timing. You gotta wait for the full 2.8 sec, or however long it is.

Once you're hidden, it's nice for good measure (or s**ts and giggles) to Piercing Mark the person from a distance to watch them and their friends start to do the "Shield Stack Freak Out Dance Party 2016!"

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

blabafat wrote: »

I admitted that my example video was not an accurate representation of the damage, and it was an extreme. My opinion on the ability remains: it should be toned down in damage.

The damage, range, and it being undodgeable make it op. ALL of these things COMBINED is why I believe it is over performing. It should remain undodgeable, and the damage needs to be adjusted (full cast from full health does too much dmg imo). Check out Jules' video to see

I like the fact that it forces players to Block, @Blabafat. I think this would be great for gameplay to have some abilities that are better to dodge, and some better to block. It would make the battlefield more reactionary and 'skillful' feeling. The problem right now is that people ignore the suggestion to Block, because blocking was nerfed very badly, and therefore write off that whole solution (with good reason). As someone who really wishes we had Blinding Flashes back, I still think many people are looking at this issue from the wrong direction. The issue is that they need to make Blocking worthwhile in pvp again. The problem is that Rolling is just better all around and they've done nothing to resolve that issue. People might have a lot less to complain about if blocking were not so punitive. In a cost vs. reward analysis, blocking just doesn't offer much of anything in pvp and that is wrong.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Is everyone just ignoring the fact that no changes were made to the power of Radiant Destruction this patch?

If radiant destruction is suddenly hitting really hard, then it is the fault of the changes to the champion system, not the RD skill itself. You know, that system that has been slowly unbalancing the game and introducing vast amounts of power creep into the combat system since the IC patch?

Now that you can boost elemental and magic damage in the same passive, everyone is consolidating their champ points and ALL magicka abilities are hitting harder. Not just RD.

When you call for a nerf to an individual skill, because of an overarching problem, you are addressing the symptoms and not the cause.

The Root of the problem has been better explained by @DeanTheCat than me. I simply link to his excellent post whenever this topic comes up.

Its always nice to see this thread get brought back up. I personally don't have a problem with the existence of a Champion System, but it is often this (and underlying rule changes) that mess with the way things function and not the skills themselves. Since we are on templars I will make a case in point. Before the introduction of cc immunity to the game, Templar cc was fantastic, one might have even argued it was OP. This was because a lot of the abilities provided dps and cc at the same time, so you could more or less juggle (like people seem able to do with Wrecking Blow still for some reason) an opponent. By introducing CC immunity they instantly messed with the way CC's worked in the class and started having skills that use to work well together suddenly work against one another. Skills like eclipse (which isn't even a cc) got thrown on the list for good measure which instantly ruined that skill for me. The Templar class has never recovered from this change, and then if our CC wasn't already bad enough they took away our only pb-AOE cc to give us an execute. Its the grand finale of the skill line, so I expect it should be a doozy, but it isn't what I wanted as someone who played a Templar Tank. Even so I think the people against RD are attacking the problem from the wrong direction. It is precisely the imbalancing of magic damage in this patch along with the fact that the Block skill sucks right now, and everyone knows it or you guys would accept it as a defense. Give us block back so we can tank again in Cyrodiil. I'm tired of dodge rolling anyway. Let me power slam, caltrop and shield charge against, then turtling up while my friends burn you down. I loved that playstyle, and I'm not alone in this.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

DonoVDV wrote: »

Please submit a video of a 1v1 where a mag Templar kills you with just radiant destruction.

We would all like to see this....

... and point and laugh...

tonemd · March 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is no issue with countering RD. The issue is countering RD while being busy doing smth else. This is mostly true for stamina builds who are used to roll dodge at low health in order to get some breathing room. Esecially against multiple opponents. This is not possible with Rd and people hate ot for it. And so do I.

yep. first instinct is to roll dodge or cloak. neither can stop RD

Cloak will break the RD channel as long as mage light isn't being used on the NB.

i dont think so man. i was testing with a templar yesterday and i couldnt cloak out of radiant

Yeah people keep saying "You can cloak it" in this thread and not reading the replies.Before the cloak nerf you 100% USED to be able to cloak to cancel the beam. That's why NBs weren't complaining about it.Since TG I have not been about to cloak my way our of RD, just either interrupt (with 3 other guys jumping on you) or healing/shielding through and running away really fast to the nearest tree or rock.

Now, I have not TESTED this. Someone could have had magelight up or a drink or throwing out AOEs as most RD users seem to like to beam you from behind the mob. (I ain't mad at ya, Inevitable Dets to you) So I think we need a definitive answer on this. Does either morph of cloak break the beam?