Veteran Dungeon Scaling?

yotanut · March 2016

Prior to TG patch I could group with other non V16 group members, and join a veteran dungeon and scale to V16. However, when trying to form a group and do this now, all members that aren't V16 are not scaled anymore. Is this intentional or a bug?

Panth141 · March 2016

AFAIK the scaling only occurs when using group finder. If you have your own group then it will scale to leader. You can get around this by searching GF with 3 of you in your group and the other separately - then hope you get grouped together.

Unless this was changed in TG, of which I can see no mention in the patch notes

Dagoth_Rac · March 2016

Panth141 wrote: »

AFAIK the scaling only occurs when using group finder. If you have your own group then it will scale to leader. You can get around this by searching GF with 3 of you in your group and the other separately - then hope you get grouped together.

Unless this was changed in TG, of which I can see no mention in the patch notes

I am not sure if this changed with TG, but it used to be that simply having LFG searching scaled everyone up. The search did not need to complete. So you could kick off LFG search with 3 players and then immediately invite your preferred 4th to group. Boom. Everyone would scale up. No need to wait around for LFG to find a player and hope it was the person you wanted.

UrQuan · March 2016

Hmm, the other day the scaling worked for a group I ran with. We had a pre-formed group of 4, including 3 VR16s and 1 VR4 or VR5, and the lower level guy got scaled up fine. We queued for a random vet dungeon, though, and stayed in the queue until it put us in one (should have been instant as we already had 4 people with 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DPS, but it took just voer 20 minutes). Perhaps if we had queued but not waited it wouldn't have scaled?

CirithValaria · March 2016

Yes more and more people are starting to notice this too - good!
I have no idea if it was intentional change or is it bug, but scaling (battle leveling) does not work like it used to.
Before you could do this:

- Form a pre-made group with either 2 - 3 people.
- Initiate a Group Finder search.
- Immediately cancel the Group Finder search.
- Invite the rest of your group members.

By doing this all members were battle-leveled to vr 16 stats and dungeon was scaled to vr16. Everyone got loot and xp to their own level - so it was huge win win scenario!
This allowed many different level players to enjoy dungeon and was especially useful when doing guild runs or inviting people for pledges no matter the level. Now we are back to old - impossible to get groups up unless people are withing few levels of each other.

And pls this isn't about some of you who don't wanna lowbies on your veteran pledge or something like that. This is about a function that seems to be missing that seriously helped guild dungeon runs and lower level players organizing groups!

Atm it doesn't even battle level people if grouping tool is used. Let say you invited manually 3 players and grouping tool finds you the 4th one (3x vr16 and x1 vr 10 (leader))...Dungeon is vr10 only...
So it only recognizes the leader and does no battle-leveling.

It was by far the best thing ZOS has ever done for grouping / group content, I hate to see it go away especially now when cross faction grouping was introduced! Guild runs are going to be near impossible to organize from now on (not all guilds have only vr16 players).

I hope we get some official statement to this, even if I'm sure there are more pressing matters.
It might sound stupid for most forum users, but it actually was a dungeon lifesaver for most non-vr16 players and also for guilds that are focused on helping new comers or that simply has wide spread of different leveled players. Also if you think I'm a noob with no veteran characters - check my characters below.

yotanut · March 2016

We did invite using the group finder and still did not scale.

SirCritical · March 2016

While that problems, you wrote earlier, are clearly true, you forgot to mention the most weird thing - while this maybe comes with the issue of the absence of scaling - : if you have at least one player in the group, who is under the origunal, non-scaled level of the dungeon, you can't queue for the specific dungeon! On monday we grouped up for the normal pledge with 2 v16 chars, and invited a lvl21 char, who hadn't completed the lvl24 dungeon earlier. We wanted to call the 4th member using the tool, to scale up everyone and the dungeon, in this way getting individually the same leveled loot and XP as the party-members are. But for a big surprise - and anger - we couldn't start the tool, because our lvl21 member was below the original level of the dungeon! This was a shame, that we were forced to do the dungeon on its original level (I gave the leadership to the lvl21 char), and we did it in trio, but without any loot and XP for us, v16 chars. I really hope that this is a bug.

UrQuan · March 2016

CirithValaria wrote: »

And pls this isn't about some of you who don't wanna lowbies on your veteran pledge or something like that. This is about a function that seems to be missing that seriously helped guild dungeon runs and lower level players organizing groups!

This is what I always used it for. I run regular group dungeon nights in my guild, and depending on who comes out, what their experience/comfort level is with dungeons, and what dungeon we're doing, sometimes we'll make a lower level the group leader to scale it down and make it an easier run, but most of the time recently we've been using the queue to scale lower levels up to VR16 so that we can all get appropriate loot and such. If this isn't working anymore, I'm pretty concerned.

MissBizz · March 2016

Yeah @UrQuan that was via the group finder (for random dungeons) so it would scale.

I did hear people mention the trick of starting the group finder then inviting no longer worked, but haven't had a chance to actually check myself..

remilafo · March 2016

CirithValaria wrote: »

Yes more and more people are starting to notice this too - good!
I have no idea if it was intentional change or is it bug, but scaling (battle leveling) does not work like it used to.
Before you could do this:

- Form a pre-made group with either 2 - 3 people.
- Initiate a Group Finder search.
- Immediately cancel the Group Finder search.
- Invite the rest of your group members.

By doing this all members were battle-leveled to vr 16 stats and dungeon was scaled to vr16. Everyone got loot and xp to their own level - so it was huge win win scenario!
This allowed many different level players to enjoy dungeon and was especially useful when doing guild runs or inviting people for pledges no matter the level. Now we are back to old - impossible to get groups up unless people are withing few levels of each other.

And pls this isn't about some of you who don't wanna lowbies on your veteran pledge or something like that. This is about a function that seems to be missing that seriously helped guild dungeon runs and lower level players organizing groups!

Atm it doesn't even battle level people if grouping tool is used. Let say you invited manually 3 players and grouping tool finds you the 4th one (3x vr16 and x1 vr 10 (leader))...Dungeon is vr10 only...
So it only recognizes the leader and does no battle-leveling.

It was by far the best thing ZOS has ever done for grouping / group content, I hate to see it go away especially now when cross faction grouping was introduced! Guild runs are going to be near impossible to organize from now on (not all guilds have only vr16 players).

I hope we get some official statement to this, even if I'm sure there are more pressing matters.
It might sound stupid for most forum users, but it actually was a dungeon lifesaver for most non-vr16 players and also for guilds that are focused on helping new comers or that simply has wide spread of different leveled players. Also if you think I'm a noob with no veteran characters - check my characters below.

yep this.... we need this feature back...

FailSaucePro · March 2016

The new group finder may look better but the functionality is awful. I'd love to just have the old one back again.

Katahdin · March 2016

I just wish the loot scaled to the player looting it regardless of the level. That way high vet levels would still get their loot and low vet levels could get the dungeons done.

I've had issues with lower levels being scaled to v16. There were some cases when we were all low, and using LFG scaled it to the point where we couldn't finish the dungeon.

SirCritical · March 2016

Repeating myself, because I am getting more and more frustrated, not anything is working like it was before the DLC, and this is scandalous. Maybe we'll have some answer from ZOS, because this is clearly missing from the patch notes.

Before the TG DLC we were able to group up with different level chars (e.g. in trio), and queue for any normal dungeon, even if we didn't have the matching level to the original level of the dungeon. When we found the 4th groupmember (didn't care about his level) we were scaled up to v16 (the enemies also), and even if we had a lvl10, just as well a vet16 char in the group, everyone got the loot and XP, matching to its level.

Now this is possible also, but with a huge difference: a lvl10 char can't queue for a higher dungeon, we just have the possibility to invite outside of the tool, make him leader, and port in the dungeon, and the enemies will be at the original level of the dungeon (even if it is higher than the leader's level).

And there was another good thing with the tool, about scaling: we could do that we grouped up in trio (the levels weren't important), the leader started the tool for a specific dungeon, but immediately after starting, he invited the 4th member manually (ofc this was allowed in the same alliance), he accepted the invitation, and the group-members, and even the enemies were scaled to v16. That was fair to everyone: we couldn't just run through the dungeon in "easy mode", we had to fight with the same leveled mobs, we got the same leveled loot as we were (it was important for monster helm-hunting), so that was a clearly righteous solution for team-mates with different levels.

I don't understand why did ZOS remove this. This is irritating, annoying and doesn't help creating groups (in an MMO...).

CirithValaria · March 2016

SirCritical wrote: »

Repeating myself, because I am getting more and more frustrated, not anything is working like it was before the DLC, and this is scandalous. Maybe we'll have some answer from ZOS, because this is clearly missing from the patch notes.

Before the TG DLC we were able to group up with different level chars (e.g. in trio), and queue for any normal dungeon, even if we didn't have the matching level to the original level of the dungeon. When we found the 4th groupmember (didn't care about his level) we were scaled up to v16 (the enemies also), and even if we had a lvl10, just as well a vet16 char in the group, everyone got the loot and XP, matching to its level.

Now this is possible also, but with a huge difference: a lvl10 char can't queue for a higher dungeon, we just have the possibility to invite outside of the tool, make him leader, and port in the dungeon, and the enemies will be at the original level of the dungeon (even if it is higher than the leader's level).

And there was another good thing with the tool, about scaling: we could do that we grouped up in trio (the levels weren't important), the leader started the tool for a specific dungeon, but immediately after starting, he invited the 4th member manually (ofc this was allowed in the same alliance), he accepted the invitation, and the group-members, and even the enemies were scaled to v16. That was fair to everyone: we couldn't just run through the dungeon in "easy mode", we had to fight with the same leveled mobs, we got the same leveled loot as we were (it was important for monster helm-hunting), so that was a clearly righteous solution for team-mates with different levels.

I don't understand why did ZOS remove this. This is irritating, annoying and doesn't help creating groups (in an MMO...).

Yep^^
My wife has lost interest on playing completely because of this, she truly enjoyed doing guild dungeon runs with all different level players and we both waited the cross-faction grouping that was meant to make it even easier. Wow how depressed we were when we noticed the state of the tool again..its the same crappy tool we had before previous improvements.. *so sad*

FloppyFrank · March 2016

Katahdin wrote: »

I just wish the loot scaled to the player looting it regardless of the level. That way high vet levels would still get their loot and low vet levels could get the dungeons done.

I've had issues with lower levels being scaled to v16. There were some cases when we were all low, and using LFG scaled it to the point where we couldn't finish the dungeon.

Problem with that is that vet 16s would just scale dungeons down to vet 1 for super fast runs yet they still get vet 16 loot

CirithValaria · March 2016

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/253125/battle-leveling-scaling-changes-for-group-finder#latest

Elloa · March 2016

@CirithValaria I don't really understand your problem with the Group finder. Now the system is a lot better (except the 20 min delay). You group up with several friends/guildies no matter the level, no matter the faction, and hop voila the Dungeons and all players are scaled to Vet16, got the daily reward and a bunch of XP.

The only very irritating issue, is the delay. The queue should be instant and it's not. is it a bug or intended? We will have to see.

CirithValaria · March 2016

Elloa wrote: »

@CirithValaria I don't really understand your problem with the Group finder. Now the system is a lot better (except the 20 min delay). You group up with several friends/guildies no matter the level, no matter the faction, and hop voila the Dungeons and all players are scaled to Vet16, got the daily reward and a bunch of XP.

The only very irritating issue, is the delay. The queue should be instant and it's not. is it a bug or intended? We will have to see.

If only it would work like you describe it^^
If you read my post from the link above your post you get pretty good idea from my problem.
System was good before, no delays, only thing we really needed was cross-faction grouping + random dungeons were nice bonus.

edit: I'm not the only one^^

Elloa · March 2016

CirithValaria wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

@CirithValaria I don't really understand your problem with the Group finder. Now the system is a lot better (except the 20 min delay). You group up with several friends/guildies no matter the level, no matter the faction, and hop voila the Dungeons and all players are scaled to Vet16, got the daily reward and a bunch of XP.

The only very irritating issue, is the delay. The queue should be instant and it's not. is it a bug or intended? We will have to see.

If only it would work like you describe it^^
If you read my post from the link above your post you get pretty good idea from my problem.
System was good before, no delays, only thing we really needed was cross-faction grouping + random dungeons were nice bonus.

edit: I'm not the only one^^

I got very much what you say. But this is how the system work here. Except the delay. You don't need to do anything manually. You just set up your group, queue, and you got TP and scaled to the Dungeon.
So basically what Zenimax needs to do is to fix the unwanted delay.

CirithValaria · March 2016

Elloa wrote: »

CirithValaria wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

@CirithValaria I don't really understand your problem with the Group finder. Now the system is a lot better (except the 20 min delay). You group up with several friends/guildies no matter the level, no matter the faction, and hop voila the Dungeons and all players are scaled to Vet16, got the daily reward and a bunch of XP.

The only very irritating issue, is the delay. The queue should be instant and it's not. is it a bug or intended? We will have to see.

If only it would work like you describe it^^
If you read my post from the link above your post you get pretty good idea from my problem.
System was good before, no delays, only thing we really needed was cross-faction grouping + random dungeons were nice bonus.

edit: I'm not the only one^^

I got very much what you say. But this is how the system work here. Except the delay. You don't need to do anything manually. You just set up your group, queue, and you got TP and scaled to the Dungeon.
So basically what Zenimax needs to do is to fix the unwanted delay.

* fingers crossed for that then *