Battle-Leveling / Scaling changes for Group Finder

CirithValaria

Prior TG update, we could activate the group finder and know that the dungeon would be scaled to vr16 and all players would be battle-leveled accordingly.
This made possible for many different level players to team up and enjoy a dungeon together while getting full benefits and rewards according to their real level.
While @ZOS always failed to advertise this great function properly and most players never even knew about it's potential and benefits...but for those who knew, it was precious!

This function made forming guild groups (and pugs for pledges) so easy!
Most of the guilds have wide variety of different level players, so this battle-leveling was a life saver.

This is how many guilds used this function for their benefit:
- Invite 1-2 players in your group.
- Activate tool and deactivate soon as you humanly can.
- Invite rest of the group.
This battle-leveled the whole group for vr16 dungeon.
[DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE]

SO...
Would be awesome to do this without ”cheesing the system” and by simply pushing a button: ”activate battle -leveling” or "scale to leader"
This should be done in a way that even normal player realizes there is such a function.
Maybe add options [icons] near normal/veteran options?
Manual system because people want to choose IF they battle-level or IF they scale to group leader and this way its more clear to all.

As far as I understand we are now supposed to make group and then queue in, but it takes 10-20 min to port group in. [BUG] This is supposed to activate battle-leveling. Again how would Average Joe know about this? Zos you need to make it more obvious option.
Hopefully this will be fixed since forming guild groups is pain atm.

Please @ZOS I know you have other priorities, but update on this matter would be nice


EDIT:
Other similar threads
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/252330/lets-talk-the-new-group-finder-tool/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/252029/veteran-dungeon-scaling
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237097/do-you-know-that-you-can-scale-any-premade-group/p1

EDIT:
Feedback in-game:

Type in chat-> /feedback
Choose: Impact - Impairs Functionality / Category - Game Systems / Sub-Category - Grouping...
Copy/Paste the following message in the "Description" field

************************************************************************************
Group Finder needs fix asap!
- It shouldn't take 20 min+ for a premade group to find last DD.
- It shouldn't take 20 min+ for a FULL premade group (with proper roles) to queue in a random dungeon!
- It should be overall much more easier to use and it's functions more properly presented so that Average Joe can understand it too.

Also an option should be made available if one desires to battle-level or scale to group leader (like choosing normal or veteran mode).

ATM it is very painful to do guild dungeon runs with different level players. I understand you have priorities and chaos in there, but this aint as minor issue as you may think it is.

Thank you!

************************************************************************************

remilafo

PLUS ++++

we need our scaling function back.

remilafo

seriously NO mention of the LFG scaling issue in this weeks patch notes?

WTF ZOS

CirithValaria

remilafo wrote: »

seriously NO mention of the LFG scaling issue in this weeks patch notes?

WTF ZOS

They haven't mentioned anything about it anywhere as far as I've searched... and meanwhile I got guild full of people being disoriented and angry because of unable to do dungeons they used to love...

remilafo

here's hoping it is just a neglected patch note..

siggi1856

everybody i talk to is pissed about the loss of this feature - it increased the fun playing this game so much.... and now ita gone....

remilafo

has anyone been in game yet today and had a chance to check if this was fixed?

CirithValaria

siggi1856 wrote: »

everybody i talk to is pissed about the loss of this feature - it increased the fun playing this game so much.... and now ita gone....

yep seen this so much on zones too, and so many have learned by the hard way how things are now...



@remilafo
Sadly not until tomorrow, I'm on EU

punishergod

It is absolutely ridiculous with the scaling tech we have in this game. Cyro, wrothgar and now the thieves guild area. Why can't we just put this into dungeons and the group finder. Have every vet dungeon scale to vr 16 and battle level anyone under vr16 to Vr15. By default!

exeeter702

I'm going to assume this is an issue exclusive to premade groups or partially full groups?

Since tg launch my vr9 healer questions up, waits a couple mins, gets a dungeon, enters it, everyone is bumped to v16, proceed to clear, collect reward via mail (if having chosen random dung.) Rinse and repeat.

And with premade.... person in zone chat asked for a healer, I say I'll go, I get invited, no tanks are responding, we que via gf tool, wait till queue pops (worst wait time I've had so far was 17 mins), queue pops, group is filled out, all are scaled to v16, repeat above with solo queue, same results. Rinse and repeat.

CirithValaria

exeeter702 wrote: »

I'm going to assume this is an issue exclusive to premade groups or partially full groups?

Since tg launch my vr9 healer questions up, waits a couple mins, gets a dungeon, enters it, everyone is bumped to v16, proceed to clear, collect reward via mail (if having chosen random dung.) Rinse and repeat.

And with premade.... person in zone chat asked for a healer, I say I'll go, I get invited, no tanks are responding, we que via gf tool, wait till queue pops (worst wait time I've had so far was 17 mins), queue pops, group is filled out, all are scaled to v16, repeat above with solo queue, same results. Rinse and repeat.

Yeah pre-made groups mainly

remilafo

This has not been fixed this weeks patch..

I can't even believe it, ZOS how are you not seeing this as a Huge priority?

Losing the ability to instantly scale a premade group is ESSENTIAL to this game being inclusive to our friends, guildmates and even strangers. As it stand right now everyone is back to LFG V16 blah blah..

CirithValaria

remilafo wrote: »

This has not been fixed this weeks patch..

I can't even believe it, ZOS how are you not seeing this as a Huge priority?

Losing the ability to instantly scale a premade group is ESSENTIAL to this game being inclusive to our friends, guildmates and even strangers. As it stand right now everyone is back to LFG V16 blah blah..

Queue in random or daily dungeon seem to work smoother and more reliably for me after maintenance.

Caff32

I never understood why dungeons just didn't scale to the highest level character. I'm not a MMO veteran but it would seem logical that if you want everyone to play together, you'd make it easier to do so rather than harder. If huge zones such as Wrothgar/Cyrodiil can be battle-leveled, why should a 4 person dungeon be any different?

Grabmoore

remilafo wrote: »

PLUS ++++

we need our scaling function back.

This!

@ZOS_GinaBruno, please let us play the game again...

majks89

This whole scaling is sick look I'm now 41 lvl with my first charakter in teso and 2 or 3 days I try do dungeons through the dungeon finder ok queue time is pretty good but this scaling is only pain, I will give a few examples if my group has 3 characters 35,26,39 and i 41 and ALL IN DUNGEONS SACLED TO v16! try to approach this dungeon it is unnecessary your group die you try give your best (with food buff) but it's really tooo hard- This only works if your group have minimum 2 veteran charakter but please for normal all v16 for low levels it's like a highway to hell I'm not joking is not funny. also I thought that in this update something will change but no really sad. I had this week many groups of between 20 and 40 lvl but for v16 scaling is too hard you can immediately leave because you know that it makes no sense, and again you have to wait for another group in the hope of getting you with minimum 2 VR chars. Please make scaling better or give scaling function that we can do it alone.

Enodoc

punishergod wrote: »

It is absolutely ridiculous with the scaling tech we have in this game. Cyro, wrothgar and now the thieves guild area. Why can't we just put this into dungeons and the group finder. Have every vet dungeon scale to vr 16 and battle level anyone under vr16 to Vr15. By default!

That was the default. That's what this thread is about.

majks89

I want to say something more:

World Of Warcraft - Amazing Group Finder tool
Tera - Full Work very very good Group Finder
SWOTOR - Amazing Group Finder

TESO - buged, not correctly working, with scaling system for low players v16 for 20 lvl pretty funny sorry but i don't understand it besides Bonus exp and item now all rest it's not worth it. Sorry but 2 years after the premiere and so basic tool does not work correctly it's just sad.

CossackHD

majks89 wrote: »

I will give a few examples if my group has 3 characters 35,26,39 and i 41 and ALL IN DUNGEONS SACLED TO v16! try to approach this dungeon it is unnecessary your group die you try give your best (with food buff) but it's really tooo hard- This only works if your group have minimum 2 veteran charakter but please for normal all v16 for low levels

Feeling like a boss now since I pulled off a V16 scaled normal dungeon with 3 lvl 13-19 players while I was VR15
And we didn't even have a proper heal, I did like half of DPS, 80% interruptions and biggest part of healing, bosses usually turned on me due to high DPS even though the tank used taunt o_O.
Also, it seemed like lower level characters deal and receive a lot less damage than I did, probably due to smoother attribute points leveling? (I've all in Stamina).

I love the new "random grouping tool", the 100K XP reward is nice too, especially for ability leveling (just slot some ability you want to lvl up before you start last boss).

But the tool needs sliders for player lvl and perhaps a setting for dungeon scale?

Liukke

Seriously I already see the scaling function as a privilege...why should someone level up then?
Everything is already too easy in this game, if you have a sorc you can do vMA perfect runs like 10 times per day, there's no competition at all and there's someone still asking for making the game even easier?

I guess ZoS can close the pts server, since everything will become available here as well, if you want the scaling system for premade groups that means if i want to farm some V16 helms just call some friends with low chars and everyone becomes super powerful...no real group needed, no need to farm or look for good items, just have some toons at lv15 with good skills and the endgame is done

majks89

But the tool needs sliders for player lvl and perhaps a setting for dungeon scale?

Yeap need why cuse when your group don't have one Veteran Rang Charakter 10 or more your group is It is unable to complete the Doungens no unless you like dying 10 times and 3 hours to sit in one place. Your group beat NPC like a hell and they like immortal. you do not believe me go between 20-40 lvl and check without one veteran character. the last time I had only one character in my group with v14 most of the group when i did not have even 30 lvl. So i must wait in queue like x3 more cuse my group don't have any vr char where is the balance?

CirithValaria

Liukke wrote: »

Seriously I already see the scaling function as a privilege...why should someone level up then?
Everything is already too easy in this game, if you have a sorc you can do vMA perfect runs like 10 times per day, there's no competition at all and there's someone still asking for making the game even easier?

I guess ZoS can close the pts server, since everything will become available here as well, if you want the scaling system for premade groups that means if i want to farm some V16 helms just call some friends with low chars and everyone becomes super powerful...no real group needed, no need to farm or look for good items, just have some toons at lv15 with good skills and the endgame is done

For me the most precious thing about it is: [For example]
That vr1, vr4, vr6 and vr9 guild members can enjoy the same dungeon together and get rewarded from it
OR
That vr 14 can join pledge groups with vr16s and not feel and be rejected because missing just few levels...

So its convenience function above anything else.
Every system can be and is cheesed and abused in some way and I'm sure this has it's flaws too.

Liukke

But you can already enjoy every dungeon, just scale it to V1 (or the lowest in the party) and you can also do it in 2-3 people
I don't see the point on upper scaling, where is the challenge?

At the moment pledges can be done really quickly (ok, gold ones require a bit of teamwork and some dps but meh, it's the farthest thing from a real endgame content) even with totally casual people found in wayrest (with no scaling), and if you can't do them just try to get better, the game should not become easier thant it is now, it's us that need to learn how to play.

I love casual play too but really the game is almost totally this way leave some challenge please!

CirithValaria

Liukke wrote: »

But you can already enjoy every dungeon, just scale it to V1 (or the lowest in the party) and you can also do it in 2-3 people
I don't see the point on upper scaling, where is the challenge?

At the moment pledges can be done really quickly (ok, gold ones require a bit of teamwork and some dps but meh, it's the farthest thing from a real endgame content) even with totally casual people found in wayrest (with no scaling), and if you can't do them just try to get better, the game should not become easier thant it is now, it's us that need to learn how to play.

I love casual play too but really the game is almost totally this way leave some challenge please!

I think you are completely missing pretty much all the points (and not just mine).
So you say if group has let say vr 9, vr 11 ,vr14 and vr1 - they should scale it to vr1 and everyone would have fun? [no thanks]
You talk about challenge but then talk about down scaling stuff, I'm not following...
Yes game is easy but what we are talking about here doesn't make it easier content wise, but it does grouping wise.
So its a quality of life function and purely optional to use.

I like to solo and duo silver pledges (its fun and in some extent challenging), but as often as possible I try to get guild group up for them - since its great way to introduce the dungeons to newcomers/firstimers or just have pleasant dungeon with guild friends. In these cases battle-leveling group is perfect way to allow everyone enjoy rewards and xp of their own lvl.
If the subject isn't yet obvious to you I don't even try to explain it futher

Yattaq

You can queue for a dungeon with a group of 4, which scales the dungeon and the group to v16. There is a bug right now where a group of 4 doesn't have an instant queue time, so once that's fixed this should be good.

CirithValaria

Yattaq wrote: »

You can queue for a dungeon with a group of 4, which scales the dungeon and the group to v16. There is a bug right now where a group of 4 doesn't have an instant queue time, so once that's fixed this should be good.

Yeah it sounds promising, it's reported to take 10-20min, but with group that has proper roles I've sit in que for 29min at best until we gave up. I really really hope ZOS fixes this.

It might be slightly better version of the previous "cheesing the system" which I described in op, but I'm still not happy about it 'cause it's again something that mostly forum dwellers know about.
I would like Zos to:

- Make it more clear choice on group finder UI like everything else. Maybe 2 options near normal/veteran icons that let u choose: "scale to group leader" or "battle level" - with proper icons and info so that everyone understands.
...or...
- Keep the current system [when it's fixed] but for love of (any) divine..tell people about it!

I think they should start realizing that giving much more info in-game is very very crucial for players overall!
I know 1 forum dweller like me can share the info for whole guild with 500 members, but I trust most of you got my meaning.

KhajiitiLizard

Scaled dungeon too hard? LOL It's still too easy. Only thing hard is that they seemed to up the amount of certain adds to absurd levels (swarming mudcrabs in FG and the skeevers from the Ratmaster in Spindle).

CirithValaria

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Scaled dungeon too hard? LOL It's still too easy. Only thing hard is that they seemed to up the amount of certain adds to absurd levels (swarming mudcrabs in FG and the skeevers from the Ratmaster in Spindle).

Yeah usually I think it this way:

If person /group cannot prevail in battle-leveled - scaled vr 16 version, most likely would have failed their own level version too. I'm sure there might be exceptions..Usually I find it to be mental thing for lower level players to "feel intimidated by" vr16 stuff and they are mostly not fully aware of battle-leveling either.
So all and all it's very good system, that needs to be addressed (bug fixed) and advertised more by zos.
Also like I said on earlier post: The options should be presented more visible and with more info.

"- Make it more clear choice on group finder UI like everything else. Maybe 2 options near normal/veteran icons that let u choose: "scale to group leader" or "battle level" - with proper icons and info so that everyone understands."

Enodoc

majks89 wrote: »

But the tool needs sliders for player lvl and perhaps a setting for dungeon scale?

Yeap need why cuse when your group don't have one Veteran Rang Charakter 10 or more your group is It is unable to complete the Doungens no unless you like dying 10 times and 3 hours to sit in one place. Your group beat NPC like a hell and they like immortal. you do not believe me go between 20-40 lvl and check without one veteran character. the last time I had only one character in my group with v14 most of the group when i did not have even 30 lvl. So i must wait in queue like x3 more cuse my group don't have any vr char where is the balance?

The tool will group anyone regardless of their level because everyone is scaled up to VR15 (or is it 16?) when they enter the dungeon.

CirithValaria

Enodoc wrote: »

The tool will group anyone regardless of their level because everyone is scaled up to VR15 (or is it 16?) when they enter the dungeon.

It used to be vr15, but it was [ninja] changed to vr16 at some point..