Give it a little time OP. There will be people in the new campaign to fight against. The DLC's only been out a few days and there are still people trying things out. Once people get in that campaign and see how much fun it is, it will bring in other players. It may take a couple of weeks but we'll get there.

Huggalump wrote: »

ok buddy, let's do this.

Yes, let's.

Huggalump wrote: »

It is not implying the removal of CP. I don't imply. I state.

I'm aware that the super srs try hard pvpers like me are in a minority here. They are in every MMO. But they're also a very important part of the MMO scene. They give the game longevity. They contribute to it's competitive scene, which drives pvp even in the casual scene. They also make fancy pants pvp videos with hardcore trap music and flash edits so that people are more interested in the game.

But the point is that I'm aware srs pvpers are a minority. That's why I'm happy there's a non-cp campaign, and I hope it's popular so they keep it open and possibly add another. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the variety of campaigns ZOS provides. They should keep CP campaigns. They should keep non-vet campaigns. They should keep campaigns with different objectives. I did not imply. You inferred.

So opening statement is you admitting you're stating you want the removal of CP and by the end of it you claim I inferred you want them removed. There's some discrepancy there...

"I'm aware that the super srs try hard pvpers like me are in a minority here." So right out of the gate, you're either stroking your own ego, or making sarcastic remarks, either way its making it difficult to take anything you say seriously. As per usual tho there's a nugget of a point in there buried... There does need to be more diverse campaigns, however your OP doesn't mention that's part of your point.

Huggalump wrote: »

Yes. It was antagonistic. It was meant to antagonize people, in order to get responses and it worked.

However, you took it as a personal attack, which it is not. Here, I'll write up a sample post of what your first reply should have been: "I disagree. If I play on a CP campaign, it won't be because I'm admitting that I can't cut it unless carried by CP.

But let's not get distracted by a single line that was clearly not the central argument to the thead. Here are the reasons to back up my claim. Your point that non-CP pvp is better pvp in regards to resource management is wrong because of _______________ and _______________." I left the reasons blank because there probably aren't any reasons. Which brings us to the next point.

Antagonizing people does not lead to a discussion. It is that simple. That is dangerously close to flame baiting, which is against the forums rules because it's not constructive. If you wanted a discussion you should have presented one. Here again we see you contradict yourself; You first say "yeah I antagonized" followed by "your response should have ignored my instigation completely and said something meaningful to the conversation." Saying "there probably isn't any reasons" also shuts down discussion. You're coming into the conversation close minded which makes it look like you're only looking for people who agree with you.

Huggalump wrote: »

nuh uhhhh

Brilliant counter-point, I guess i just have to concede to your point. You're not JUST some master of PVP but also a master of rhetoric. /s

Huggalump wrote: »

No I didn't(fact). It's understood that when you're conversing, making qualitative comments like "_____ is better than _____" are opinions(fact). That's how conversation works(fact). It would be ridiculous if we had to go around noting whether each statement is fact or opinion (opinion).

Correction: stating "____ is better than ____" IS an opinion being stated as fact, as you did not follow up with "Because ____" or even start out with "I feel". "BLUE is better than PURPLE. Fight me." is what your OP looks like, compared to what it should have looked like; "BLUE is better than Purple because it is a primary color, and without its existence PURPLE cant exist." Also note the bait was removed. Now you've got an argument worth actually discussing.

Huggalump wrote: »

Sorta already covered this, but if I have an opinion, I'm not going to tiptoe around it. I'm going to say it standing up straight. So yes, if you're serious about pvp, you should do the healthy thing for the game and play in the non-CP campaign.

And of course I was trying to instigate. I wanted to instigate people into telling me what thought, which they did. I also wanted to instigate people into being dedicated to the non-CP campaign, which I didn't.... yet.... but when Azura gets pop-locked I'll totally take 100% of the credit. All me, boys.

That was sarcasm, btw. Don't get triggered.

By all means state your opinion, I don't once claim your opinion is wrong, you however in your OP do imply anyone whose opinion doesn't match yours is wrong. According to that, my ONLY options are to agree with your opinion or state "I cannot pvp without CP" and that's it. Where is the discussion? Instigation doesn't lead to followers, inspiration does. Of which, your OP sorely lacks. You didn't rally anyone to your side, you divided. You COULD have come here and said you were making a guild for your faction that will exclusively PVP in the non-CP campaign, call out the other factions in a friendly/competitive manner, and recruited.

Huggalump wrote: »

Rad! We finally got to the point.

Yes, my real issue is with the regen system, which is why I spent the majority of the OP talking about the regen system.

Your OP was 174 words, 36 of them were used to make the point about resource regen, 59 were used to antagonize. The argument could be made the "majority" of your OP was just instigation.

Huggalump wrote: »

You see, you're right. A lot of the CP benefits are cancelled out when going to the non-CP campaign. 20% damage loss is cancelled by 20% mitigation loss. But one thing you forgot is that what doesn't get cancelled out is regen.
So yes, people will find a new balance, but regen WILL. BE. LOWER. than on CP campaign. That's unarguable.

I didn't forget, I mentioned the skills a sorc can use to make up the difference very easily. (I only mention sorc because it is the class I am most familiar with) A destro or resto staff with a Glyph of Absorb Magicka, utilizing Elemental Drain, Restoring Twilight, Energy Overload, and Endless Fury all make up for the *new* lack of resource regen, and can get the regen back to an optimal level with only sacrificing a VERY small amount of damage (if any at all, as I know some sorcs who already run this type of setup) There is of course also the magica potions. So Now you have a class nearly unaffected by the change that was supposed to make PVP "better" vs the rest of them who now lack a major resource, AND any defenses that the CP would have granted. Which in itself IS an argument for CP campaigns, damage mitigation and defenses. SO I'd say it is arguable, as I just did... Stop being so damn close-minded.

Huggalump wrote: »

So why is that better for pvp? Let's take it to an extreme. Let's say we're way down the road and everyone has maxed CP. Not 501, but actual maxed CP. The game already gets pretty spammy at 501 cp... but at max CP? You would break free, which costs almost nothing, and your stamina regenerates completely in the very next tick. Spam heals for days and never run out of magic.

As ESO has no cooldowns, the only element of strategy in the game is resource management. Now with our super awesome three gajillion or whatever maxed CP, there's no longer resource management. There's no longer strategy. PVP could still be a fun sideshow, but there's no value investing time in it because there's no room for improvement.

Does that make sense? I hope so. If not, I dunno, these posts are getting too long and I'm just gonna stop this one here.

So your fear is, CP goes completely unchecked, everyone gets maxed CP and becomes walking demi-gods which leads to server overload, and eventually the downfall of the entire game? This is a valid concern, but c'mon... you think ZOS is just going to allow the CP system to go on completely unchecked for so long? It's an MMO and MMOs constantly get reworked and updated. They could very well remove regen from the CP system altogether, or increase the casting cost of all abilities. It's just as likely to happen as everyone reaching max CP. Heck they could even implement an anti-spamming update that makes it so anytime a skill is used in rapid succession the cost is doubled. Forcing people to either weave attacks/skills or completely lose out on their regen.
This is the only time you've spoken "real" and I'd like to see more of it.

Huggalump wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

And it's pretty stupid that no one is there, considering people who mainly play this as a PVP game have been asking for a no-CP campaign for a long ass time.

Who are those people? I never heard of anyone asking for a campaign like that. to be honest until your thread I didn`t even know something like that was ever requested.

I linked about four threads earlier with polls showing about 50% of people wanting a no-cp campaign.

Just because some people ask for it on the forums, or that (in your estimation) 50% of the people posting in those threads say they want a non CP campaign, does not mean the majority of the pvp community wants it. The forum community is a very small proportion of the player base.

I spoke with many people in my guilds who don't read or post on the forum and had no idea it was happening until it was discussed in guild chat. Same for the map chat in Cyrodil, many had no idea.

One thing we can say for certain is the majority of the vet pvp community don't want it because they abandoned the server that was converted.

So your statement that "people who mainly play this as a PVP game have been asking for a no-CP campaign......" or at least your assumption that they were the majority of pvp players is incorrect

@ZOS should make two campaigns for each type, one WITH CP and one WITHOUT CP. That way all players can try them out and play in the one that they are the most comfortable with or have the most fun in.

With all the new players coming into the game, they can join the No CP one at first while they are trying out their end game builds and then move into the CP Campaigns at anytime afterwards.

Having different options for everyone to pick from is a lot healthier for the game in the long run.....It will keep people playing and enjoying ESO PVP.

catalyst10e wrote: »

words

These posts are getting cringing long and we're not making any progress. So we're going to agree to disagree.

I'm not even gonna argue any points. It was fun for a while, but it's dragging on.

You and I communicate in very different ways. I don't like polite language. I like language that has personality and that is direct with opinions. I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I assumed if people would disagree with me, they'd tell me I'm wrong. Which I'm totally cool with.

Also, I said I'm a serious pvper. I've never said I'm a good pvper. In fact, on these forums I've quite often said the opposite.

Good luck in the future. Watch out for that inferring. Here's to hoping we both find a campaign to suite us.

Katahdin wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

And it's pretty stupid that no one is there, considering people who mainly play this as a PVP game have been asking for a no-CP campaign for a long ass time.

Who are those people? I never heard of anyone asking for a campaign like that. to be honest until your thread I didn`t even know something like that was ever requested.

I linked about four threads earlier with polls showing about 50% of people wanting a no-cp campaign.

Just because some people ask for it on the forums, or that (in your estimation) 50% of the people posting in those threads say they want a non CP campaign, does not mean the majority of the pvp community wants it. The forum community is a very small proportion of the player base.

I spoke with many people in my guilds who don't read or post on the forum and had no idea it was happening until it was discussed in guild chat. Same for the map chat in Cyrodil, many had no idea.

One thing we can say for certain is the majority of the vet pvp community don't want it because they abandoned the server that was converted.

So your statement that "people who mainly play this as a PVP game have been asking for a no-CP campaign......" or at least your assumption that they were the majority of pvp players is incorrect

What do you want me to say? The people I show you asking for a no-cp campaign aren't valid. But people you talk to about a no-cp campaign are valid. This discussion is really gonna go places.

There has been plenty of talk about a no-CP campaign. Sypher, Fengrush, Lord Richard, and Leftylucy talked about the idea of a no-CP campaign on their podcast thing. And most importantly, ZOS went backwards on CP to introduce a no-cp campaign. Clearly there are a good number of people that were asking for it.

Once people l figure out how to build for the campaign a bit better, we'll see if it fills up a bit more.

Huggalump wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

I foresee all of NA on non CP and all of EU on CP.

hahahaha this guy. I like your style.

Regarding the rest of your post, I disagree... I think? There's still plenty of things to tweak. Gear, which skills to use, enchants, class, race, etc.

Also, my main argument still is that the pvp mechanics are better on no-cp because the game needs difficult resource management to maintain a level of strategy.

BUT your point definitely makes sense to me. I see it from the RPG perspective, but then I also see how that RPG perspective would flow into pvp because you want to put the character you built to the test.

You've got a point, but I still think resource management becomes too easy with 300+ cp

What I am trying to say is that there is room for both to be popular. Give the people the option to choose which one. ZOS has done that. Awesome. Neither is wrong both are successful just like NASCAR and F1. Everyone is happy. Why change anything from how it is right now.

As an aside, what I do think we will see is non Cp more stable from a lag perspective. If you can cast skills less due to lower sustain it means less strain on the sever. Just like how baby PVP has less lag. So shall non CP. For those with bad connections non CP would be a great option but for optimum play the style you wish then full CP campaign is for you.

Huggalump wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

And it's pretty stupid that no one is there, considering people who mainly play this as a PVP game have been asking for a no-CP campaign for a long ass time.

Who are those people? I never heard of anyone asking for a campaign like that. to be honest until your thread I didn`t even know something like that was ever requested.

I linked about four threads earlier with polls showing about 50% of people wanting a no-cp campaign.

Also, this video. First at 19:00 for the no-cp campaign, then at 29:00 for my point about resource generation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6oYAiQGNo

All right, I see. Well, now those 100 people have their own campaign to play on.
I´m not saying this was a waste of programmer-time, but it sure feels like it.

Anyway, more choices are always good, but I really wouldn`t count on many people playing that mode in the future.

Best PvP I've had in months. No BS.

I tried the zero Champion Point campaign. I realized that I could not use my treasure hunter passive. I switched to a different campaign. this is a reason to not play on the Zero Champion points campaign.

Robbmrp wrote: »

@ZOS should make two campaigns for each type, one WITH CP and one WITHOUT CP. That way all players can try them out and play in the one that they are the most comfortable with or have the most fun in.

With all the new players coming into the game, they can join the No CP one at first while they are trying out their end game builds and then move into the CP Campaigns at anytime afterwards.

Having different options for everyone to pick from is a lot healthier for the game in the long run.....It will keep people playing and enjoying ESO PVP.

DEF agree with this. This would keep the masses happy IMO

AlnilamE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Also I was able to farm vr16 mats in cyro much more frequent than pre-TG. So in an hour you should have enough mats for pruple vr15 test build sets.

It comes down to this:

- embrace AZ as a new type of pvp revolving on resource/health management
- or embrace CP for more dmg centered pvp

The rest of the arguments are superfluous and toxic; just have fun its a game.

But the Master Gatherer and Plentiful Harvest passives don't work in Azura's so you'd be able to gather the same amount of mats in a CP campaign in less than half the time. It's the main reason I'm not going to spend a lot of time above ground in Azura's.

I'll give the PvP a try at some point when I get to it, but the lack of gathering passives makes it a sub-optimal location for PvE outside of IC.

I really don't care if people are playing with CP or not, but my guild is not there anymore, and as someone else said, PvP is way more fun with guildies. And it's about having fun. Not being the best 1vXer in the universe (I don't think I've ever won a 1vX).

So the folks who wanted a no-CP campaign got what they wanted. Go have fun there. Leave the rest of the players to do what they find fun.

@AlnilamE
Looks like the Plentiful Harvest passive does still work in the Non CP campaign, BWB at least.



This is good because you can still get this non combat bonus, but also worrisome because if one CP passive still works in this campaign, what else does?

Edit: Master Gatherer does not work however

My excuse: I took an arrow to the knee .

Huggalump wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

I would never play those "Vanilla"-campaigns. I hate the notion that everybody has to be equal, no matter how much efford they put in their characters. It`s the gaming-equivalent to the participation trophy in schools.
<bläch>

As always with this discussion, we're running into two different camps. The RPG leaning camp, which your argument comes from. And the competitive gaming camp, which my argument comes from.

So just to explain things from my perspective, the competitiveness of a game is damaged when players aren't on an even standing.

That's absurd! There's no such thing as an even standing in competition in real life, why the hell should you expect it in a game? People have different skills and abilities and strengths and weaknesses in real life as in the game. You learn to use your strengths as well as your weaknesses or you fail. Period. End of story. I agree with Uviryth! You want a trophy for being special when you're not.

I will stay in the none cp campaign's only because i know the people who only care about power creep with leave. Which mean's more fun to be had for me in the none-cp campaign's.