xellink wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Wrobel is probably playing a woodelf DK because he didn't know woodelves are born to be NB's.

Now he wants an advantage over the rest of us...


"It's the ONLY way!" - Tenacious D

Sorry to revive this thread. But I think its up for discussion again since TG has been released. Dark brotherhood DK poison?

I am gonna create a bosmer DK. I don't understand why this idea received so much negative feedback.

People, myself included, like it in terms of Champion Point synergy, but it would be super frustrating to suddenly be spitting poison at people when you initially picked the class for the fire.

BullNetch wrote: »

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

Dragons in Elder Scrolls are not known for their poison. They're known for their language, dragon shouts.

I don't believe there was a poison dragon shout in Skyrim.

You're a dragon knight, not a cobra knight. Cobras spit venom.

Dragons are known for their teeth and bites. How about bleed damage?

Alucardo wrote: »

Akaviri have a high resistance to poison, so why couldn't they be masters of it too? It is said they were also eaten by a Vampiric serpent race, so why couldn't it be that the survivors inherited the poison ability?

Bosmer have a resistance to poison.

Yo im all for bleed damage if it scales in the same way!

Recremen wrote: »

Up For Discussion

• Aesthetics of the proposed changes
• How this affects your aesthetics

Not Up For Discussion

• Dunmer fire passive
• Actual Math
• How this affects your build

Please go to one of the existing threads for that topic if you want to discuss anything in the "Not Up For Discussion" topic

Lol, I love how you dictate what can and cannot be discussed. How authoritarian of you.

I play both PvE and PvP, and I play both a stam and magicka of each of the classes. I truly try to keep an unbiased view of things when discussing the game, nerfs, and proposed changes. I am not a lore jockey, nor am I a role player. Personally, I am more into end game and character progression than immersion and lore. But, I know not everyone values gaming for the same reasons I do. I would never let someone tell me how to enjoy gaming; I will never tell someone else how they should enjoy their game (short of taking a stance on cheating and the use of exploits as these in a multiplayer environment ruin the game for all). So, with that said...

The biggest issue with most stam builds is that they tend to lose class identity. With the exception of stam NB, the others are based more around weapon skill lines than class skills. For this reason, playing a stam DK feels a lot like playing a Stamplar, which feels a lot like playing a stam Sorc. These retain very little class feel. That is not to say that weapon skill lines are under or over powered, or that they do or do not offer great options for build synergy and dps; that is a different conversation all together. I am speaking specifically about stam builds maintaining a class identity. With this thought alone, I think it is great that the devs are thinking about class stam transformations. Yes, sure it is possibly a bit cheesy the thought of a DK spitting a cloud of poison vice a fireball. But, at the same time it is kind of cool. Plus, it offers some great synnergy and build options with existing skill lines and equipment sets. Frankly, I am excited to try a poison stam DoT DK if the devs go forward with the idea. Plus, I think it offers a unique opportunity to buff Argonians to actually contribute something to a class.

To take a step back tho, why do you really care? Why should it matter that a stam DK spits poison and a Mag DK spits fire? Is it because it is now how you picture things in your head? Will it break your game? Will it in some way ruin the immersion or lore? So what. How many players don't want to shoot fireballs and would rather take the melee warrior route but have their experience ruined because they cannot feel like they are playing a Battle Sorc, a DK, or a Templar? Is it not fair that the devs do something for this crowd (whom I can only assume would outnumber the 'but I like the look of fire' crowd)?

Katahdin wrote: »

I hate the idea of stam DK being poison, really, really hate it. I think that if any class should have poison it's NB. DK should be fire period.

If they make stam DK poison, I'm probably never going to play DK again. I already deleted a dunmer DK because of this proposed change. I have a V16 imperial DK that is my max crafter. He will be retired somewhere to just do crafting and nothing else. I really hate this idea that much.

How very dramatic of you.

Yet this is the oppositions view on the devs doing something to provide stam players class identity. Personally, I could care less if the stam morphs of skills look like regular fire, have a green tint to the fire, or are altogether changed to a poison cloud type of visual effect. It is no way changes my view on the devs actions or my ability to play the game and enjoy it for what it is. However, it would be nice if their were some sort of vidual indicator signifying you are battling a Stam DK vice a magicka one (both for actual counter strategy as well as just knowing the popularity of a class on the battlefield).

Of bigger issue to me are how the devs would implement such changes... Would they change a current morph and thus limit mag DK options or would they think outside the box and create a third morph for popular skills to be able to offer a suitable stam/magicka alternative to that skill? Would they nerf known and accepted mechanics to force a new design to work? Would such options include upscaling of old popular sets or the introduction of new sets for build diversity? If currently contemplating this for DKs, would they give the same due diligence to stamina Sorcs and Templars?

Let's not devolve into a community more intent on arguing petty details when much bigger issues are effecting a far greater percentage of the game.

Poison blades? Poison slash? Spitting poison?! HELL YEAH! My bosmer dk would absolutely love this.

Recremen wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Wrobel is probably playing a woodelf DK because he didn't know woodelves are born to be NB's.

Now he wants an advantage over the rest of us...


"It's the ONLY way!" - Tenacious D

Sorry to revive this thread. But I think its up for discussion again since TG has been released. Dark brotherhood DK poison?

I am gonna create a bosmer DK. I don't understand why this idea received so much negative feedback.

People, myself included, like it in terms of Champion Point synergy, but it would be super frustrating to suddenly be spitting poison at people when you initially picked the class for the fire.

Why would u pick the class for fire and then go stamina? Templar has a lot of fire abilities too (but nobody wants to play templar). Fire and stamina doesn't work well together.

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Up For Discussion

• Aesthetics of the proposed changes
• How this affects your aesthetics

Not Up For Discussion

• Dunmer fire passive
• Actual Math
• How this affects your build

Please go to one of the existing threads for that topic if you want to discuss anything in the "Not Up For Discussion" topic

@Refuse2GrowUp

Lol, I love how you dictate what can and cannot be discussed. How authoritarian of you.

I play both PvE and PvP, and I play both a stam and magicka of each of the classes. I truly try to keep an unbiased view of things when discussing the game, nerfs, and proposed changes. I am not a lore jockey, nor am I a role player. Personally, I am more into end game and character progression than immersion and lore. But, I know not everyone values gaming for the same reasons I do. I would never let someone tell me how to enjoy gaming; I will never tell someone else how they should enjoy their game (short of taking a stance on cheating and the use of exploits as these in a multiplayer environment ruin the game for all). So, with that said...

The biggest issue with most stam builds is that they tend to lose class identity. With the exception of stam NB, the others are based more around weapon skill lines than class skills. For this reason, playing a stam DK feels a lot like playing a Stamplar, which feels a lot like playing a stam Sorc. These retain very little class feel. That is not to say that weapon skill lines are under or over powered, or that they do or do not offer great options for build synergy and dps; that is a different conversation all together. I am speaking specifically about stam builds maintaining a class identity. With this thought alone, I think it is great that the devs are thinking about class stam transformations. Yes, sure it is possibly a bit cheesy the thought of a DK spitting a cloud of poison vice a fireball. But, at the same time it is kind of cool. Plus, it offers some great synnergy and build options with existing skill lines and equipment sets. Frankly, I am excited to try a poison stam DoT DK if the devs go forward with the idea. Plus, I think it offers a unique opportunity to buff Argonians to actually contribute something to a class.

To take a step back tho, why do you really care? Why should it matter that a stam DK spits poison and a Mag DK spits fire? Is it because it is now how you picture things in your head? Will it break your game? Will it in some way ruin the immersion or lore? So what. How many players don't want to shoot fireballs and would rather take the melee warrior route but have their experience ruined because they cannot feel like they are playing a Battle Sorc, a DK, or a Templar? Is it not fair that the devs do something for this crowd (whom I can only assume would outnumber the 'but I like the look of fire' crowd)?

It's really not authoritarian at all, it was clarifying the aim of the thread to prevent off-topic discussions that were already covered by other threads on the forum at the time of this thread's creation. I don't exactly have the ability to delete off-topic comments, but if you've been on the forums long enough you know that's something the moderators do all the time. I was trying to preempt anything like that by being very specific about the discussion topic, and it worked out really well.

Anyway, to address your comments that don't involve talking down to people:

• Completely agree regarding stam classes losing class identity, at least from a PvP perspective. Playing a stam DK in terms of damage is mostly weapons skills, for me it's all Critical Rush, Executioner, Wrecking Blow, Forward Momentum, and Steel Tornado. Supplementing this was my heavy attack execute via Molten Armaments, but this has recently been destroyed and now only does the 40% bonus heavy attack damage. I actually lost part of my class identity this patch, and it is a really sore point for me. That said, my survivability skills are still nice. I still have wings and Green Dragon Blood, so that provides a little bit of class identity, even if GDB is utter crap right now and mostly there for the stam regen.
• I rather specifically did not exclude the option of poisony particle effects, I said that it shouldn't be automatic and across the board, in case people want to stick with the fire look. On top of that, I mentioned that an even better approach would be to open up even more variety of particle effects, but have them be tied to an aesthetic drop-down menu instead of shoehorning stamina or magicka builds into one or the other. Your primary criticism would have been preempted if you'd read the whole comment.
• Yes, this would really ruin my character's aesthetics in a meaningful way, and that is pretty important in a roleplaying game. I feel for all the people who can't get a good build to mix with the character idea they originally came here for, but I'm not really sure how their suffering justifies more suffering. If anything, there should be work done to alleviate their problems. Again, if anything ZOS should be increasing aesthetic options instead of shoehorning a look into magicka and stamina categories. I don't at all mind what the back-end damage type is because that's just gameplay mechanics, what really matters is that players can look how they want while playing a well-balanced game.