Dragonknight poison damage : neat, but incomplete

Recremen

Up For Discussion

• Aesthetics of the proposed changes
• How this affects your aesthetics

Not Up For Discussion

• Dunmer fire passive
• Actual Math
• How this affects your build

Please go to one of the existing threads for that topic if you want to discuss anything in the "Not Up For Discussion" topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure every stam DK likes the idea of easier synergy in the champion system, but poison particle effects clash hardcore with my characters' aesthetics. I didn't really pick the "breathes fire" class for its sinister snake appeal, you know? As you look into stamina skills across the board for the Dark Brotherhood Update (Update 10), you're probably going to run into the same issues not just with Dragonknight, but with every class. So what's to be done? Templars throwing out disease spears? Sorcerers firing off bolts of physical damage? Those are some very significant holes to get pidgeoned into so long after people made their characters!

On the other hand, does damage type really need to be married to particle effects? What's to stop you from changing the damage type and keeping the same particles, at least initially? Is it so vital to communicate to an opponent what type of damage they are being hit by outside a PvE setting? Is someone really going to switch out their fire resist ring for a poison resist ring in the middle of Cyro fighting just because, goodnesss gracious, that one DK is a STAM DK? Probably not. Indeed, we already obfuscate plenty about player builds, especially in terms of armor. If I want to wear my slimming Breton Riding Outfit (made by Bretons, not for riding Bretons), it's going to cover up my armor and then half my build is a secret to everyone! Maybe I'm even using one of the undaunted sets, and that's getting covered too! But that's not really a huge deal, since anyone attacking me can pretty quickly figure out my approximate build based on how hard their attacks hit for and the weapon skills I'm using.

This is all to say: if you go through with the poison changes (and they are pretty clever, so I'm not especially against it), please don't automatically change the particle effects. Alternatively, open up more possibilities for particle effects! Give a dropdown menu for each class of what your spikey death rays will look like today. If you don't end up coupling the particle effects and the damage type, just imagine the possibilities! Templars stabbing with lightning! Nightblades impaling with fire!! And of course you wouldn't have to drop all these particle effects choices all at once, but could grow the pool over many development cycles. Poison DK today, Disease Sorc tomorrow! (Fire Nightblade no ETA).

Thoughts?

slumber_sandb16_ESO

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

Recremen

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

Totally with you on that, was hoping more people would chime in. I think most are just worried about their Dunmer passives not synergizing. :-\

Slayyer-AUS

God damn rpers ruining it for us just let dk have poison damage what is wrong with you people. The class is dragon knight not fire knight or what ever jeez delete this thread breh

Spliffo

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

God damn rpers ruining it for us just let dk have poison damage what is wrong with you people. The class is dragon knight not fire knight or what ever jeez delete this thread breh

Ardent Flame

rager82b14_ESO

I hope they change it and just recolor the flames to be green. You know what? That would be cool now that I think about about it. Green burning flames of poison.


Man I might roll a DK for that. I like green.

PhatGrimReaper

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

God damn rpers ruining it for us just let dk have poison damage what is wrong with you people. The class is dragon knight not fire knight or what ever jeez delete this thread breh

@Slayyer-AUS , your DPS is already bloody OP..... Away with you.

D0ntevenL1ft

Lets just live through TG update first

Anilahation

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

I didn't know TES had poison dragons, I thought they only had Fire/Ice Dragons.

rager82b14_ESO

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

I didn't know TES had poison dragons, I thought they only had Fire/Ice Dragons.

Well Poison dragons makes sense. I mean why not?. So all this talk of poison not being part of dragons are just being silly.

Recremen

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

God damn rpers ruining it for us just let dk have poison damage what is wrong with you people. The class is dragon knight not fire knight or what ever jeez delete this thread breh

No sweety I'm not saying "don't let us have poison damage" I'm saying "don't make the particle effect changes mandatory". :-) You get a poison, your guild gets a poison, everyone gets a poison!

AddictionX

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

God damn rpers ruining it for us just let dk have poison damage what is wrong with you people. The class is dragon knight not fire knight or what ever jeez delete this thread breh

@Slayyer-AUS , your DPS is already bloody OP..... Away with you.

DPS is so OP that vet maelstrom arena is a cake walk for stamina classes, ESPECIALLY stamina DK ... right for pve?

Stamina DK is so OP that that is all we see in our leader-boards each campaign over and over flooded with DK...

Johngo0036

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

Duiwel

Wrobel is probably playing a woodelf DK because he didn't know woodelves are born to be NB's.

Now he wants an advantage over the rest of us...


"It's the ONLY way!" - Tenacious D

Yuke

GREEN Dragon Blood = Blood of a poison dragon?

At least there is already a bit of green in the skill description.

Recremen

Yuke wrote: »

GREEN Dragon Blood = Blood of a poison dragon?

At least there is already a bit of green in the skill description.

No no, green for stamina!!

Yuke

I havent heard of any lore, where stamina is being associated with the color green tho.

Recremen

Yuke wrote: »

I havent heard of any lore, where stamina is being associated with the color green tho.

Stamina has been green since Arena, buddy. :-o

Alucardo

Akaviri have a high resistance to poison, so why couldn't they be masters of it too? It is said they were also eaten by a Vampiric serpent race, so why couldn't it be that the survivors inherited the poison ability?

shugg

I love the idea of a poison dk, i chose dk for it being dragon tank not the flame stuff but the idea of breath poison while tanking is just awesome.

This may lead to evey class having 2 elements to the class 1 stam 1 magic, maybe frost / lightning for soc .

Recremen

shugg wrote: »

I love the idea of a poison dk, i chose dk for it being dragon tank not the flame stuff but the idea of breath poison while tanking is just awesome.

This may lead to evey class having 2 elements to the class 1 stam 1 magic, maybe frost / lightning for soc .

Can't be frost, that's elemental damage. Needs to be poison or disease, the end.

BullNetch

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I didnt pick Snake Knight, I picked Dragon Knight. Yes there are poison dragons but when someone says dragon the first thing you think of is giant winged lizard that breathes fire. FIRE.

Huge armoured Orc warrior that is in the middle of the battle, surrounded by the fires of war. Thats why I chose DK. Not to puke green bile on enemies.

Seriously. Poison? Just do physical damage. Then DK will get fire magicka morphs and physical stamina morphs. Not EVERYTHING has to be magic and magicka.

Dragons in Elder Scrolls are not known for their poison. They're known for their language, dragon shouts.

I don't believe there was a poison dragon shout in Skyrim.

You're a dragon knight, not a cobra knight. Cobras spit venom.

Dragons are known for their teeth and bites. How about bleed damage?

Alucardo wrote: »

Akaviri have a high resistance to poison, so why couldn't they be masters of it too? It is said they were also eaten by a Vampiric serpent race, so why couldn't it be that the survivors inherited the poison ability?

Bosmer have a resistance to poison.

WalkingLegacy

Johngo0036 wrote: »

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

That would make sense though. Player options is what this game says it is.

Fire could be magicka morph and poison could be stamina morph.

Recremen

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

That would make sense though. Player options is what this game says it is.

Fire could be magicka morph and poison could be stamina morph.

If it were really about options, then why shoehorn stamina into using poison?

WalkingLegacy

Recremen wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

That would make sense though. Player options is what this game says it is.

Fire could be magicka morph and poison could be stamina morph.

If it were really about options, then why shoehorn stamina into using poison?

I agree. I guess I was just giving a little compromise to the devs.

corrosivechains

I just look and no, there are not any poison based dragons or poison based dragon attacks in Elder Scrolls. It's Frost, Fire, and Drain Vitality. And Drain Vitality isn't poison based, it's just a standard shout which damages stamina health and magicka. Even the one dragon type you might think would have a poison based attack, the Serpentine Dragon, only uses Frost and Fire.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragons_(Lore)

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Drain_Vitality

Vangy

Meh I just want my Dots to be effective. I want them to scale off a single cp node just like every other class come next patch. Don't care if it's poison don't care if it's physical don't care if it's bleeeD. Just want it to be effective. Dots already suck as they are in pvp. Don't want to be gimped even further.

We could just keep the visuals as it is, but make the game system make it scale off poison/physical/bleed. The only thing to change would be the tooltip. So if ur an avid Rper it won't affect your immmursssion. Just don't stare at the tooltip. Your dk will still be breathing fire.

Also if you're a dunmer stamina dk, yes you would lose the passive to fire damage affecting your dk stamina skills, but you would gain a 25% mighty bonus to the skill itself. Technically as far as I see it, if your a stamina dk dunmer, this change would get u a Dps increase. Not a loss. 25% cp>6% passive... If your a magicka dunmer dk, this won't affect you... Or maybe there's a nerf to dunmer cos of this change I'm not seeing... The only scenario I would see this as a nerf to dunmer stam dk is if you were putting 100 into ele expert and using strictly only fire skills from the dk class.... Of those only 2 are stamina fire abilities, searing strike and burning breath... Not enough to warrant dunking 100 into ele expert. Unless of course you were a fire tank... Not too sure how to balance this. Something needs to give..

xellink

Recremen wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

That would make sense though. Player options is what this game says it is.

Fire could be magicka morph and poison could be stamina morph.

If it were really about options, then why shoehorn stamina into using poison?

to be fair a lot of people were asking about the green whip in the trailer. In some of the pictures, the flame was changed from green to orange.

It wouldn't make sense to give templars poison and whip is in the dk skill line

BullNetch

xellink wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Johngo0036 wrote: »

To be honest I was kinda devastated by this suggested change....

Then i sat down and thought about it for a while.....

Why does ZOS not make each morph for the DK one flame and one poison.....

that way we can have best of both worlds.....
also more diversity when creating characters...

That would make sense though. Player options is what this game says it is.

Fire could be magicka morph and poison could be stamina morph.

If it were really about options, then why shoehorn stamina into using poison?

to be fair a lot of people were asking about the green whip in the trailer. In some of the pictures, the flame was changed from green to orange.

It wouldn't make sense to give templars poison and whip is in the dk skill line

DK stam morphs... bleed proc. Unstable flame become Razor Wind. Burning Breath becomes Rending Shout .You use air, which fuels flames, to cut instead of fueling fire.

Nightblade stam morphs... poison. Ninja poison.

Templar stam morphs... bleed proc. Spear penetrates extra.

Sorcs (if they had offensive stam morph)... disease. (they have the dark magic)

xellink

Duiwel wrote: »

Wrobel is probably playing a woodelf DK because he didn't know woodelves are born to be NB's.

Now he wants an advantage over the rest of us...


"It's the ONLY way!" - Tenacious D

Sorry to revive this thread. But I think its up for discussion again since TG has been released. Dark brotherhood DK poison?

I am gonna create a bosmer DK. I don't understand why this idea received so much negative feedback.

Thevampirenight

I would like to see them add more morphs to choose from, for all the classes and skill lines. That way dragon knights could have fire/poison/frost attacks, and that way they don't have to change abilties completely.