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Do we want the class system abolished?
there is much strife amongst the four classes of tesotu(to which some use this to further their own), which class is overpowered/better than the others. i have seen this here on the forums and spoken to many in the game itself on this issue. my honest opinion is that there should be no classes at all, just skill trees that anyone can use. this would lead to some real fixes to skills, diversity in pve/pvp, and possibly even more skill trees down tho line.
Edited by SolDeLaLunis on March 9, 2016 4:55AM Vet 16 Sorcerer Magicka DPS High Elf- Arivena Forwen
Vet 16 Templar Magicka Healer Breton- Sylvia Vex
Vet 12 Nightblade Magicka DPS/Healer Wood Elf- Faldlas Duskwind
Lvl 10 Dragonknight Magicka DPS?/Tank? Dark Elf- Iveria Tedethyl
Lvl 5 Templar Stamina DPS Argonian- Frolics-In-Meadows
Vet 16 Templar Magicka Healer Breton- Sylvia Vex
Vet 12 Nightblade Magicka DPS/Healer Wood Elf- Faldlas Duskwind
Lvl 10 Dragonknight Magicka DPS?/Tank? Dark Elf- Iveria Tedethyl
Lvl 5 Templar Stamina DPS Argonian- Frolics-In-Meadows
Do we want the class system abolished? 118 votes
Yes
22%
26 votes
No
71%
84 votes
Maybe if...
6%
8 votes
0
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Digiman✭✭✭✭✭NoThis would create more problems then solve it. People will then focus on particular abilities that are more effective and you would have particular cookie cutter builds while other abilities get tossed and forgotten.
With the class system it actually forces ZoS to focus on fixing problems for particular roles without jeopardizing consumer interest which will fall by the wayside if everyone is using a particular cookie cutter set as it's the only one 2% more effective then the other.
Complete Homogenization ruins the game.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoThis goes on in any MMO. There is always the flavor of the month where someone figured out something that put that build on top until someone else figured something else that changed who is king of the mountain.
It would be foolish (not calling the OP foolish) to make everything vanilla the same.
Keep classes. Keep a little class in the game.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoPlayers would find the best combo of skills, and nothing would be solved. Flavor is going to happen no matter what is done, and tearing down the existing system will do nothing to solve that.1 -
OmniDo✭✭✭✭✭YesIn all the previous games, there were no "Classes".
There existed only the Guilds and Factions.
You became whatever you invested your time to become; mage, thief, warrior, archer, swordsman, vampire, or all the above.
There will NEVER be "Balance", because systems of attrition always determine a victor based purely upon strategic execution.
If two players were of equal skill and their characters had the same capabilities, the "winner" would be whomever hit their button(s) first.
If you want a balance, go play tic-tac-toe.
Everyone knows you can cat's-game it every time because there is no way to "win" unless one player makes a mistake.
If you make all the classes equal; both mathematically and in required effort for execution, then all that is left is "Style", which will still result in a cat's game, just like tic-tac-toe.
There can be no victor in any competition who does not possess an advantage over their opponents, regardless of whether that advantage is obscure or obvious.
So what difference would it make to carry a label, when in the end we can all use swords, shields, staves, axes, and bows anyway?2 -
Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭YesYes. Classicism is wrong, and as long as there is a ruling class there will always be friction and stigmas in regards to the lower class.Terms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]1
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OldManJim✭✭✭✭✭YesYes. The previous TES games worked well because you could play any way you wanted. A spell slinging thief? No problems!PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoAs if that was really a question at this time... if they tried to reinvent their game from scratch, the suits in charge would pull the plugs on the servers and lay off the assets.
Not that a classless system works well in an MMO lime ESO in any case ...
Sure, in a single player game there is no problem, but...
... in an multiplayer game, everyone and their granny would end up using the same "super-effective" build... to prevent that, they would need to cut down the "impressive" class and ultimates to a completely overnerfed level where nothing really gives any kind of advantage... and it would still very much end up feeling like playing clone trooper 387542 instead of a hero of tamriel...
...and it would make the intermixing skills of the classic "Tank-DPS-Healer" mean much less, thus giving people less reason to depend on one another, and again leeching some of the things that make a game interesting from it.
Keep the idea for when they make Fallout-Online... without any "special" skills, that would be a system well suited for classless setup. 0 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe if...Conan Exiles is going to be classless, Early Access start in Summer 2016, if you're up to it, I for one am excited. I personally believe in classless game alot more, players can play whatever they want, if they want to play with OP-builds, go ahead and play, eventually they get bored and start to play with less effective builds, not to mention not all players care at all if they are playing with OP-build or no. Or we will find out soon I suppose how it pans out.
But ESO again is holy trinity game, if they add Arena, whining is going to be off the roof.Edited by Sausage on March 9, 2016 7:25AM0 -
I like the class system but I think they need to make the non class skills more useful.
Does anyone use the last skill of mages guild? Guard from alliance? The healing purge? Revealing flare?
How many people use the skills from destro staff? Outside of destructive reach? In pvp..
(Way too underpowered imo)
How many people use charging maneuver? (Well in honesty that skill is broken so..)
Anyone use replenishing barrier? No....
Siege shield? Idk maybe with the new update but so far outside of some lowbies in bwb I've never seen it used.
Undaunted skills are never used... I think it's more because of the synergy though (no one EVER ACTIVATES them)
The Mage guild rune sucks since its soooooo obvious it's only useful if the person fighting u is all melee.
I think if they made some of these skills more useful it would help with balancing
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Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe if...jessikajayne wrote: »Siege shield? Idk maybe with the new update but so far outside of some lowbies in bwb I've never seen it used.
I think it should somehow protect the siege weapon user too, the siege weapon itself last longer than the guy using it.Edited by Sausage on March 9, 2016 8:49AM0 -
Teronell✭✭✭NoAccess to BoL, Cloak, Leap, Hardened Ward, etc on one character with most of them proccing instant frags?
No thank you.0 -
ianock✭NoEvery agreement for yes that say the previous elder scrolls games were that way, are forgetting one extremely important fact! They were single player games...
Faction less system would make it extremely dull. There would only be one build out there (no matter how they implemented it), because of pvp and pve requirements and competitiveness.
I agree with what another poster said. Make the non class abilities (some need this not all) more useful and offer a little more option within each.
I.e. Dual wield offers nice weapon damage but the abilities offer little to pvp players (no good heal, buff or mitigation. Even though it has these things, it's just not comparable with other skills.
Just broaden th spectrum with competitive choices within the skill lines. Not if you want to stam pvp you have to use 2h because it has rally plus a gap closer.
(Used these as common examples, many others are out there)
P.s. There was a game long ago called fury, it boasted fair and engaging pvp based on skill. Th y said this because there was no classes, everyone had access to great gear and abilities. Initially it was great, then Everyone found the optimal builds.
It then became obvious and stale. No future changes where incoming thus the game died, pretty quickly.
Just sharing my experience with this for some insight.2 -
Atarax✭✭✭YesThe people who are stuck on class systems seem to be operating under a mistaken paradigm with two points:
1. MMOS "must" have classes
Wrong.
Here are a few of the MMOs that didn't / don't require classes (in chronological order):
-Ultima Online
-Asheron's Call
-Darkfall
-The Secret World
-Pathfinder Online
They did it with varying degrees of success, AC was great, but made respecing too hard, TSW has an awesome skill system (IMO). It also turns out, when it's done well, it's easier to balance the system when everything is available to everyone. You get much less forum whining, and really overpowered abilities become obvious pretty quickly.
2. Having no classes will lead to A. people being able to do everything all at once and/ or B. everyone will play one cookie-cutter build
Wrong.
This is not how it played out in AC and even more so TSW. You saw tons of build varieties, sure FOTM builds were there, but that's true even more-so of games with abilities locked behind classes.
ESO already has a system in place similar to TSW's where you have to pick which abilities you're going to slot, you also have a limitation on skill points. You also have limitations from gear stats. So not everyone can do everything, and you can't slot all the best abilities, even for a given role, all at once, even now.
I'm fine with there being classes, as long as they are just a starting point and I can eventually learn all class abilities on one guy. I don't particularly like doing the same quests on alts, or alts at all for that matter.
A system where everyone can learn every ability, but there are restrictions in place preventing them from doing it all at the same time...
just....
works...
better...
It's also in the spirit of the earlier Elder Scrolls games, and ZOS's stated goal to allow us to "play as you want."Edited by Atarax on March 9, 2016 10:22AM50 Bosmer Nightblade
50 Breton Sorcerer
50 Dunmer Dragonknight
50 Imperial Templar
50 Khajit Nightblade
50 Imperial Dragonknight
50 Altmer Sorcerer
50 Argonian Templar
Discussions of Interest:
Class Balance in 1.6
Quest Choices
Request to Reinstate Night's Silence and Dark Stalker stacking0 -
Noare you so naive. if its a free for all with skills + passives there will still be top combos, and a few fotm will simply replace classes by being so much more powerful than other builds.
anyway it would really mess balance up even worse in my opinion.0 -
Sausage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe if...dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »are you so naive. if its a free for all with skills + passives there will still be top combos, and a few fotm will simply replace classes by being so much more powerful than other builds.
anyway it would really mess balance up even worse in my opinion.
Hmm, exactly like now we have a few OP-builds, and people are pissed off because they cant defeat them and thus whine the forums and blame the devs.
I think classless system should balance itself out, if done right, devs doesnt need to take attention at all, players make the mess but they have to solve it too, and devs can just watch how things goes. Put a couple OP-builds, so bad and casual players can use them, more experienced players can experience different builds.
Funcom tried it with TSW, I cant wait for Conan Exiles, I hope they get it right.Edited by Sausage on March 9, 2016 12:22PM0 -
YesYes.
Some changes will be need, like remove some passives or tweak them. Class is just a forced tag with non sense.0
