stumpy999 wrote: »

mmm

I like the idea of pvp without cp, for pure keep bashing action - cool

but IC has a big bunch of pve in it, and it's campaign related

So if I want to grind stones or do quests I guess I need to avoid a cp limited campaign as the monsters are not scaled for my cp.

So I could guest, but why limit my ability to help other campaigns.

As a new guy with just enough points to make lvl 10, i guess it's cool as you don't meet the leet minmaxers

not sure the concept of cp limited has been thought through......

Good point.

If IC has no impact on Cyrodiil, it could make sense to do Cyrodiil on your home and IC on your guest.

Sharakor wrote: »

Liberal mentality: Everything that I, a liberal progressive, do not agree should be banned by federal law. If you don't agree with my ideology you are a racist, bigot and fascist.

EDIT: nvm, not gonna be toxic. Just wish we still had the LOL button

Seriously, anyone who thinks removing CP from PvP is going to magically balance stuff out is pretty damn clueless. Without CP people will still win out of sheer skill, which the whiners on here seem to think that those that have max CP don't have any of... No perma block without CP you say? No infinite resources? Those didn't exist with full CP anyways and even without CP, there's ways to get to such levels anyways via gear. Which is why the no-CP campaign will never catch on anyways, because people don't want to redo all of their V16 gold gear because some whiners managed to get ZOS to remove their end game progression. Which is exactly what I've shared with my PvPing guild mates in game... The champion system is a means of end game progression and PvP is one of the game's end game. So what's the point of removing a huge part of end game progression from one of the game's few end games?

Jhunn wrote: »

Sirvandal wrote: »

What I find most annoying is that Zeni kills the Azura population. I have manny game buddies in there and its now ripped apart due of the Non-CP. Why didn't Zeni use a low populated server...anyway its to late now. Tnx Zeni! Great Job. :'(

Ps. I like the concept of a non-cp campaign. Diversity in a game is good imo.

Using the most populated server gave the non-CP campaign its best chance at having just a bit of longevity, so IMHO that's one of the few good decisions ZOS has made.

Except very few people wanted a non-CP vet campaign and all of the major guilds didn't want it. So what happens when they all move off of Azura's? Yep, everyone else moves with them. So you PO'd the player base there and accomplished nothing else.

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have the feeling that Azura non-cp will be the campaign PvE'er go to do the quests in Cryodiil because of the lower population. At least until some guild decides to make it a "buff server" for their alliance.

Except without CP, PvE becomes harder. Trueflame on NA PC was dominated by an AD guild or two each night where they took the entire map. Now with everyone from Azura's on Trueflame, it seems they merely moved to Azura's, which is otherwise empty. Personally, I've found it much easier to do PvE stuff on the old Azura's versus the old Trueflame in part because of the AD guilds that feel like they own the campaign and how people on the more populated campaign tend to focus on PvP and generally don't go to the PvE areas. Rather funny that I've gotten ganked far more on a dead campaign than a full one, where I rarely ever run into anyone interested in trying to gank me.

just play in no cp and be happy you have the option. or are you sore that its not populated enough and are trying to convince others to join?
there is no reason for people who like cp to play there. you expect me to make even another gear build to make up for no cp making current build unviable? no thanks

if it was the other way around and everyone was on non-cp and the others were dead, id be happy to join. the people have spoken, they populated the other campaigns instead.

you just have to except most players picked trueflame and haderus. so your telling almost the entire population of the game they are pvping wrong... LOL

Huggalump wrote: »

Did I fit enough negatives into the title?

Anyhow, non-CP pvp is VERY good for the game. Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns. Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

Of course, it levels the playing field so new players aren't instantly turned off by pvp.

But another reason non-CP pvp is good for the game is because as CP numbers rise, pvp becomes worse. There are no cooldowns in this game, so it risks being a spamfest where player skill is irrelevant and the only determining factors are gear and stats. The only thing that can keep pvp from becoming this spam fest is resource management. Champion points make resource management far too easy. PVP becomes stupid once everyone's pumped enough into resource regen and cost reduction.

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

This is what happens when ZoS listens to the whiniest complainers on a small platform.

The problem with this is that it gains nothing by penalizes everything.

Everyone vocal about non-CP campaign was a minority and you have a new play pen. Don't go whining about how empty it is because the rest though CP were fine and fun.

If people want more they would join! Quit begging others who clearly don't like the restriction because you want more shards for one clearly empty and not gaining traction.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

Digiman wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Did I fit enough negatives into the title?

Anyhow, non-CP pvp is VERY good for the game. Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns. Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

Of course, it levels the playing field so new players aren't instantly turned off by pvp.

But another reason non-CP pvp is good for the game is because as CP numbers rise, pvp becomes worse. There are no cooldowns in this game, so it risks being a spamfest where player skill is irrelevant and the only determining factors are gear and stats. The only thing that can keep pvp from becoming this spam fest is resource management. Champion points make resource management far too easy. PVP becomes stupid once everyone's pumped enough into resource regen and cost reduction.

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

This is what happens when ZoS listens to the whiniest complainers on a small platform.

The problem with this is that it gains nothing by penalizes everything.

Everyone vocal about non-CP campaign was a minority and you have a new play pen. Don't go whining about how empty it is because the rest though CP were fine and fun.

If people want more they would join! Quit begging others who clearly don't like the restriction because you want more shards for one clearly empty and not gaining traction.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

1. I made this thread before even logging on the game and realizing the non-cp campaign was unpopulated.

2. If I think non-cp pvp is healthier for the game, why the hell wouldn't I try to get more people on to it?

3. Your definition of "whiny" is wrong. In the post you quoted, I explained why non-CP pvp is better for the game.

4.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

It's ironic that you expect people won't understand your point without the bold when you didn't understand the point of the very post you quoted. I'm fine having less CP than other people. I like playing the underdog anyhow, it's keeps things interesting.

Nothing in my OP even implies that I'm talking about balance. The argument in my OP is that pvp with no CP requires more strategy due to resource management. Therefore, pvp with no CP is more fun. Therefore, people should play it so that ZOS keeps the server and possibly opens more.

Yes, I want pvp to be more fun. Sue me.

Huggalump wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Did I fit enough negatives into the title?

Anyhow, non-CP pvp is VERY good for the game. Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns. Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

Of course, it levels the playing field so new players aren't instantly turned off by pvp.

But another reason non-CP pvp is good for the game is because as CP numbers rise, pvp becomes worse. There are no cooldowns in this game, so it risks being a spamfest where player skill is irrelevant and the only determining factors are gear and stats. The only thing that can keep pvp from becoming this spam fest is resource management. Champion points make resource management far too easy. PVP becomes stupid once everyone's pumped enough into resource regen and cost reduction.

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

This is what happens when ZoS listens to the whiniest complainers on a small platform.

The problem with this is that it gains nothing by penalizes everything.

Everyone vocal about non-CP campaign was a minority and you have a new play pen. Don't go whining about how empty it is because the rest though CP were fine and fun.

If people want more they would join! Quit begging others who clearly don't like the restriction because you want more shards for one clearly empty and not gaining traction.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

1. I made this thread before even logging on the game and realizing the non-cp campaign was unpopulated.

2. If I think non-cp pvp is healthier for the game, why the hell wouldn't I try to get more people on to it?

3. Your definition of "whiny" is wrong. In the post you quoted, I explained why non-CP pvp is better for the game.

4.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

It's ironic that you expect people won't understand your point without the bold when you didn't understand the point of the very post you quoted. I'm fine having less CP than other people. I like playing the underdog anyhow, it's keeps things interesting.

Nothing in my OP even implies that I'm talking about balance. The argument in my OP is that pvp with no CP requires more strategy due to resource management. Therefore, pvp with no CP is more fun. Therefore, people should play it so that ZOS keeps the server and possibly opens more.

Yes, I want pvp to be more fun. Sue me.

Huggalump wrote: »

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

To clarify, you ACCUSE everyone else who is playing the end game progression as designed as being unable to cut it and are being carried by progression they earned by game design because it messes with your own simplistic design of playing the game and are demanding everyone else to play it despite you already having a server for it and not come off as whiney?

You are whiney, you already have a server. Stop belittling other players and stop trying to push for CP to be completely removed from all PvP and I never mentioned anything about balance either. I just pointed out it was stupid for you to make an thread insulting them about how they play with CP and then saying non-CP being more tactical because it simplifies the game better for you.

It doesn't make it more skillful or tactical because it forces less variables for the player to adapt too, essentially your saying tic tack toe is more tactical then chess because it has less moves in it.

CP was designed to make the player feel stronger and stronger as they progress which is needed since ESO is adding new content and story instead of forcing them to grind through particular dungeons to get sets and then raising the level cap every couple of years.

If it stopped at 50, then not very many people would play. It's why many dropped out, and your obvious continued lobbying to get rid of CP in PvP so you can play your more simple experience that was granted now comes off as you forcing and ridiculing players so it's completely removed from PvP.

Quite frankly I find it disgusting, I have a live and let die policy. I don't want them take away your non-CP, I think it's a great option.

What I don't want is you trying to get them to take away CP because of your personal views.

The CP cap should have removed any need for a non-CP campaign.
Have fun there - send us all a post card.

Digiman wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Did I fit enough negatives into the title?

Anyhow, non-CP pvp is VERY good for the game. Everyone should be playing in it to encourage ZOS to open more non-CP campaigns. Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

Of course, it levels the playing field so new players aren't instantly turned off by pvp.

But another reason non-CP pvp is good for the game is because as CP numbers rise, pvp becomes worse. There are no cooldowns in this game, so it risks being a spamfest where player skill is irrelevant and the only determining factors are gear and stats. The only thing that can keep pvp from becoming this spam fest is resource management. Champion points make resource management far too easy. PVP becomes stupid once everyone's pumped enough into resource regen and cost reduction.

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

This is what happens when ZoS listens to the whiniest complainers on a small platform.

The problem with this is that it gains nothing by penalizes everything.

Everyone vocal about non-CP campaign was a minority and you have a new play pen. Don't go whining about how empty it is because the rest though CP were fine and fun.

If people want more they would join! Quit begging others who clearly don't like the restriction because you want more shards for one clearly empty and not gaining traction.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

1. I made this thread before even logging on the game and realizing the non-cp campaign was unpopulated.

2. If I think non-cp pvp is healthier for the game, why the hell wouldn't I try to get more people on to it?

3. Your definition of "whiny" is wrong. In the post you quoted, I explained why non-CP pvp is better for the game.

4.

No one likes it when the whiniest person demands everyone else to have their legs removed so they don't feel like the smallest.

It's ironic that you expect people won't understand your point without the bold when you didn't understand the point of the very post you quoted. I'm fine having less CP than other people. I like playing the underdog anyhow, it's keeps things interesting.

Nothing in my OP even implies that I'm talking about balance. The argument in my OP is that pvp with no CP requires more strategy due to resource management. Therefore, pvp with no CP is more fun. Therefore, people should play it so that ZOS keeps the server and possibly opens more.

Yes, I want pvp to be more fun. Sue me.

Huggalump wrote: »

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

Do the healthy thing for the game. Play in the non-CP campaign.

To clarify, you ACCUSE everyone else who is playing the end game progression as designed as being unable to cut it and are being carried by progression they earned by game design because it messes with your own simplistic design of playing the game and are demanding everyone else to play it despite you already having a server for it and not come off as whiney?

You are whiney, you already have a server. Stop belittling other players and stop trying to push for CP to be completely removed from all PvP and I never mentioned anything about balance either. I just pointed out it was stupid for you to make an thread insulting them about how they play with CP and then saying non-CP being more tactical because it simplifies the game better for you.

It doesn't make it more skillful or tactical because it forces less variables for the player to adapt too, essentially your saying tic tack toe is more tactical then chess because it has less moves in it.

CP was designed to make the player feel stronger and stronger as they progress which is needed since ESO is adding new content and story instead of forcing them to grind through particular dungeons to get sets and then raising the level cap every couple of years.

If it stopped at 50, then not very many people would play. It's why many dropped out, and your obvious continued lobbying to get rid of CP in PvP so you can play your more simple experience that was granted now comes off as you forcing and ridiculing players so it's completely removed from PvP.

Quite frankly I find it disgusting, I have a live and let die policy. I don't want them take away your non-CP, I think it's a great option.

What I don't want is you trying to get them to take away CP because of your personal views.

You're tacking a lot of arguments on me that I never said. I never implied that they should take anything away from you. In fact, I explicitly said the opposite.

I didn't accuse everyone with max CP of anything. I said that non-CP pvp is better, which it is despite your tic tac toe metaphor. And because it's better, there's no reason to play in the CP campaigns.

A lot of people responded about the re-gearing woes, which is true and I should have thought of that first.... but long term, it's still the better option.

You're taking a lot of the things I said as personal attacks when they just weren't.

catalyst10e wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

ESO pvp becomes a spam fast when everyone has jacked up resources. This is a well known problem and people have talked about it long before now and have directly attributed it to champion points long before now. Champion points and the killing of the soft cap system.

I can understand that people don't want to remake all their gear to play in a better pvp environment... but it is a bummer.

Now this part here is good for a discussion. And honestly you should have lead with this instead of making it sound kinda condescending and antagonistic. (no offense meant)

The idea that it's actually the near unlimited resource management in general that is a major issue here, and not infact the CP system, even tho the CP system incorporates more resource management. So perhaps the resource regen aspects of the game as a whole need to be looked at or reworked, but the answer certainly isnt remove them entirely.

Are some players heavily relying on CP? maybe. Some of them maybe dont even realize they depend on it because it's always been there and you dont notice it till its completely gone. Kinda like how when you ride your maxed out horse around you dont realize how slow they were till you start up an alt and have to upgrade the speed all over again. But the progression towards that max speed was a slow climb so you never took notice until then.

Removing the CP entirely wouldnt fix the balance issue, as pointed out by several people here... they may not WANT to repsec the gear, but if pressed, all of us (myself included) COULD rework new gear for it, and within say... a month... it'll be right back to where it was before with people now complaining the game is TOO gear focused, and that anyone without the mats or cash to get the gear are at a huge disadvantage, then say the battle leveling system needs to be reworked/removed entirely to compensate. (or something along those lines)

If this part here is good discussion, then my op was good discussion too. I just reworded the exact argument from my OP.

I agree that the answer isn't to remove them entirely. I never hinted that I wanted to remove the CP system entirely.

There is a zero percent chance of it getting right back to where it was by respeccing gear. You literally cannot achieve the same numbers. Sure, you could get your regen up to the same value, but the amount of damage you'll have to sacrifice will be ridiculous. As with CP campaign pvp, in the non-CP campaign people will eventually find a balance between regen and damage, and both will be lower than on the CP campaigns.

Erock25 wrote: »

Uviryth wrote: »

I would never play those "Vanilla"-campaigns. I hate the notion that everybody has to be equal, no matter how much efford they put in their characters. It`s the gaming-equivalent to the participation trophy in schools.
<bläch>

@Uviryth I just gotta ask then ... how many CP do you have?

As someone with around 290 CP on PC NA who has been playing since BETA (not much time to game anymore), I will stick with non-CP campaign I think.

About 150, which means I get killed quite a lot by 501CP-players. But I am okay with that, because thats the natural thing in an mmorpg.

To clarify, you ACCUSE everyone else who is playing the end game progression as designed as being unable to cut it and are being carried

Huggalump wrote: »

I didn't accuse everyone with max CP of anything. I said that non-CP pvp is better, which it is despite your tic tac toe metaphor. And because it's better, there's no reason to play in the CP campaigns.

Yes you did:

Huggalump wrote: »

There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP.

The issue and the ironie is that we started this game without cp, and now we've been offer to go back to this state in order to pvp. Is it bad, answer is no, is it good, answer is still no. Could some of us keep Azura as their guest server why not, but the name of the game is number, and Azura won't get it.

Explanation

It's simple, we still want what we worked for, even those with less then 300cp. You don't have to judge us. A part of the population requested a cp-free campaing they have it. It will be good for duel, and it will be amazing for non-vet campaing.

I mean, it's not the end of the world. CP after all, only kills pvp as some people knew it, a pvp that was less offensive, more opportunistic, where less people would go for the kill and more will wait for the incapacity to fight. Looks a bit like complain people deliver nowadays about competitive sport

Have a good one.

kuro-dono wrote: »

Its real shame that eso pvp community is split into elites and casuals/sheeps. Elites having the HUGE urge to show off their huge e peen with their cookie cutter builds that can solo 2-40 casuals/sheeps is somehow fun? And casuals, the majority is trying to have honest fun by dying and killing but not watching certain few spam to death everything thanks to what?

Thank god trains left azura, wee bit more fun for casuals not just farming paradise going at resource towers or alessia bridge. now to balance some covenants and some ebons into campaign and it will truly be an AwEsOmE campaign. Its definetly stress free.

Not sure what happened past 10 year in gaming communities but the toxity level is on total new level.

E peens this way, and casuals that way, hurray!

Let's throw all kinda competetive players into an elite category of evil, stupid [snip] that are only here to stroke their ego.

Aye.

Have 501 cps for months.

Yesterday I was forced to play on the non CP campaign because the only other populated campaign was lagging (Trueflame EU).
I was surprised how well it worked. But the most fun I got out of it was lagfree fights. Dmg is still high and the ttk is even lower than on a CP campaign.

But if I could choose. I will always take the lagfree CP campaign.

Btw: No lags on non CP campaign even though it was tripple locked and primetime for EU. Another evidence for the zergblobs destroy the server with their lagshit mentality.

Huggalump wrote: »

If this part here is good discussion, then my op was good discussion too. I just reworded the exact argument from my OP.

I agree that the answer isn't to remove them entirely. I never hinted that I wanted to remove the CP system entirely.

There is a zero percent chance of it getting right back to where it was by respeccing gear. You literally cannot achieve the same numbers. Sure, you could get your regen up to the same value, but the amount of damage you'll have to sacrifice will be ridiculous. As with CP campaign pvp, in the non-CP campaign people will eventually find a balance between regen and damage, and both will be lower than on the CP campaigns.

Your OP literally says

Huggalump wrote: »

Non-CP is how the pvp should be in ESO.

This is implying the removal of CP, or at least it sounds like you're advocating it. So your statement "I never hinted that I wanted to remove the CP system entirely" is inaccurate. That is then followed by the antagonistic lines like "You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP." which is where/why you're getting resistance and friction. It was unnecessary.

Yes if you cut a resource like CP granting regen entirely, and your gear needs to try and make up the difference, theres going to be some sacrifice somewhere, like defenses or damage. But if your idea of "better" PVP is just making everyone weaker, that's just dumb... Which is why I was trying to point out, you may have actually had a point that it's the resource management system that is at fault. THIS is the part that's good discussion, your OP was NOT good discussion as it didn't promote any sort of discussion you just stated your opinion as fact and then instigated arguments with lines like the aforementioned "There's no excuse for not playing in the non-CP campaign. You'd have to straight up admit you can't cut it unless carried by CP." and "Do the healthy thing for the game." You might as well have ended it with saying "fight me".

Assuming the non-CP campaign took off, and more and more people started to use it, serious PVP guilds send their guildmates there and people find the balance in the damage vs regen you mentioned. The non-CP campaign just becomes the CP campaign. Except now with lower visual damage. There'd still be people 1vXing, and 1-shot builds, because the CP system isnt just resource regen it's also defenses. So, the sorcs lose out on 25% damage, 25% magicka regen, and 24% on their shields, but a crystal frag can still proc for 20% extra damage, might of the guild is giving another 20% boost, power surge raises spell damage by 20%, throw in some food/potions, passives and such... AND include the fact no one has any CP to mitigate spell damage or boosting spell resistance... and we're right back where we started. I could argue the problem would be even worse, since the non-CP campaign is designed to attract new players who dont want to face the "elite" players with 501 CP, so the server is filled with inexperienced players as cannon fodder for the elites with excellent gear and armed with the knowledge theres not going to be any resistance to their abilities.

Yes, the burst damage when used in excess is going to leave them dry, but thanks to weapon enchantments that can deal magic damage and regain magicka, coupled with moves like Elemental Drain and Endless Fury with my weaving light attacks, I'll survive.

So I say again... your real issue here is not the CP system, it is the regen system. maybe make a discussion about that... and also try not to include the antagonistic lines....