Major Brutality on Nightblades

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

Dragonknights and Sorcerers have out of combat skills that can be cast to grant them Major Brutality and Major Sorcery. You don't have to hit enemies for the buff to activate and can drop some significant damage on your initial hit from stealth.. Yet, Nightblades, who are the class who are supposed to be able to deal the most damage from stealth, must slot 2H (to cast Momentum) as their backup and weapon swap to their desired weapon if they want to maximize their initial damage from stealth.

Why?

Can't we just remove the requirement that makes Drain Power have to hit an enemy to activate Major Brutality and Major Sorcery? The lack of an out-of-combat buff for Nightblades does not make sense to me.

CP5 · March 2016

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

It's not that Nightblades don't do enough damage from stealth, it's that Dragonknight, to me, seems just as appealing for stealth combat as the supposed assassin, the Nightblade.

The new changes to Igneous Weapons will give Dragonknights a single slot, out-of-combat casting skill that grants both Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) and Minor Brutality (8% weapon damage) and can be applied to any weapon without the user being forced to use 2H.

Did Dragonknights just become the most versatile stealth-based damage class?

- Only need one slotted skill (Igneous Weapons) to gain +28% weapon damage and it can be cast outside of combat.
- The user can use any two weapons that they desire, which gives them more options.
- Buffs to all other nearby allies with the +28% weapon damage (which makes team ganking that much stronger).

Edit: I forgot to mention the Corrosive Armor ultimate to ignore 100% of enemy armor.

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

It's not that Nightblades don't do enough damage from stealth, it's that Dragonknight, to me, seems just as appealing for stealth combat as the supposed assassin, the Nightblade.

The new changes to Igneous Weapons will give Dragonknights a single slot, out-of-combat casting skill that grants both Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) and Minor Brutality (8% weapon damage) and can be applied to any weapon without the user being forced to use 2H.

Did Dragonknights just become the most versatile stealth-based damage class?

- Only need one slotted skill (Igneous Weapons) to gain +28% weapon damage and it can be cast outside of combat.
- The user can use any two weapons that they desire, which gives them more options.
- Buffs to all other nearby allies with the +28% weapon damage (which makes team ganking that much stronger).

Edit: I forgot to mention the Corrosive Armor ultimate to ignore 100% of enemy armor.

Minor brutality is 5% not 8%.

Also if you compare nb vs dk from stealth you'll see that it's quite close.

DK: +25% weapon damage
NB: +10% weapon damage +8% damage + 10% crit damage

So you compare 15% weapon damage to 8% damage +10% crit damage and for most stealth setups, the nb buffs will grant higher damage output.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

It's not that Nightblades don't do enough damage from stealth, it's that Dragonknight, to me, seems just as appealing for stealth combat as the supposed assassin, the Nightblade.

The new changes to Igneous Weapons will give Dragonknights a single slot, out-of-combat casting skill that grants both Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) and Minor Brutality (8% weapon damage) and can be applied to any weapon without the user being forced to use 2H.

Did Dragonknights just become the most versatile stealth-based damage class?

- Only need one slotted skill (Igneous Weapons) to gain +28% weapon damage and it can be cast outside of combat.
- The user can use any two weapons that they desire, which gives them more options.
- Buffs to all other nearby allies with the +28% weapon damage (which makes team ganking that much stronger).

Edit: I forgot to mention the Corrosive Armor ultimate to ignore 100% of enemy armor.

Minor brutality is 5% not 8%.

Also if you compare nb vs dk from stealth you'll see that it's quite close.

DK: +25% weapon damage
NB: +10% weapon damage +8% damage + 10% crit damage

So you compare 15% weapon damage to 8% damage +10% crit damage and for most stealth setups, the nb buffs will grant higher damage output.

Good call. Just curious where the 8% weapon damage comes from for Nightblades? I know the 20% comes from Master Assassin (+10% weapon) and Hemorrhage (+10% critical damage).

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

It's not that Nightblades don't do enough damage from stealth, it's that Dragonknight, to me, seems just as appealing for stealth combat as the supposed assassin, the Nightblade.

The new changes to Igneous Weapons will give Dragonknights a single slot, out-of-combat casting skill that grants both Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) and Minor Brutality (8% weapon damage) and can be applied to any weapon without the user being forced to use 2H.

Did Dragonknights just become the most versatile stealth-based damage class?

- Only need one slotted skill (Igneous Weapons) to gain +28% weapon damage and it can be cast outside of combat.
- The user can use any two weapons that they desire, which gives them more options.
- Buffs to all other nearby allies with the +28% weapon damage (which makes team ganking that much stronger).

Edit: I forgot to mention the Corrosive Armor ultimate to ignore 100% of enemy armor.

Minor brutality is 5% not 8%.

Also if you compare nb vs dk from stealth you'll see that it's quite close.

DK: +25% weapon damage
NB: +10% weapon damage +8% damage + 10% crit damage

So you compare 15% weapon damage to 8% damage +10% crit damage and for most stealth setups, the nb buffs will grant higher damage output.

Good call. Just curious where the 8% weapon damage comes from for Nightblades? I know the 20% comes from Master Assassin (+10% weapon) and Hemorrhage (+10% critical damage).

Grim focus
And it's 8% damage output not just weapon damage, which makes quite a difference due to how to damage is calculated.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

NB's also have a 8% damage buff that can be stacked with that.

Edit: And since you are seemingly talking about from stealth, NB's also get the damage buff while in stealth. Plenty of damage already, using what is arguably the best melee weapon to do more damage isn't that much of a drawback.

Are you referring to the Grim Focus skill that grants Minor Brutality?

Grim focus grants minor berserk, which is almost as strong as major brutality and only avilable to nbs and restro staff. Minor brutality can only be applied by dks.

And to be honest, I personally never felt my nb wouldn't do enough damage from stealth, even without using rally.

It's not that Nightblades don't do enough damage from stealth, it's that Dragonknight, to me, seems just as appealing for stealth combat as the supposed assassin, the Nightblade.

The new changes to Igneous Weapons will give Dragonknights a single slot, out-of-combat casting skill that grants both Major Brutality (20% weapon damage) and Minor Brutality (8% weapon damage) and can be applied to any weapon without the user being forced to use 2H.

Did Dragonknights just become the most versatile stealth-based damage class?

- Only need one slotted skill (Igneous Weapons) to gain +28% weapon damage and it can be cast outside of combat.
- The user can use any two weapons that they desire, which gives them more options.
- Buffs to all other nearby allies with the +28% weapon damage (which makes team ganking that much stronger).

Edit: I forgot to mention the Corrosive Armor ultimate to ignore 100% of enemy armor.

Minor brutality is 5% not 8%.

Also if you compare nb vs dk from stealth you'll see that it's quite close.

DK: +25% weapon damage
NB: +10% weapon damage +8% damage + 10% crit damage

So you compare 15% weapon damage to 8% damage +10% crit damage and for most stealth setups, the nb buffs will grant higher damage output.

Good call. Just curious where the 8% weapon damage comes from for Nightblades? I know the 20% comes from Master Assassin (+10% weapon) and Hemorrhage (+10% critical damage).

Grim focus
And it's 8% damage output not just weapon damage, which makes quite a difference due to how to damage is calculated.

Ah yes, thank you I forgot about that.

acw37162 · March 2016

You mean you play a class that has skill line access to major brutality and major sorcery.

You do realize there is a class in the game that does not have access to either buff in their class skill lines at all, right?

The argument your making is better phrased into they need to look hard at weapon skill lines and why 2H is so ridiculously better then everything else.

A buff NB argument is not very compelling at all NB's are not in need of a buff.

My hope is in update 10 Dark Brothehood DLC they move Momentum and its morphs to the fighters guild skill line and take a long hard look at DW, Bow, and 2H.

For all those so inclined I fully expect Uppecut and its morphs to be adjusted with dark brotherhood. What adjusted means I have no idea with what I've seen from this combat team they could reduce the range by 2 meters and increase the damage by 20% which would cause the forums to explode, it would be funny but it would still be a fire.

GreenSoup2HoT · March 2016

I agree with OP.

I personally hate using a two hand weapon just to have access to a form of major brutality while in stealth. If anything could be done to prevent this would be great.

Once the Thief's Guild DLC come's out their will be a new set called "The Cleaver Alchemist". This set will give you a ton of damage when you drink a potion. So technically you could be drinking a potion per kill in cryodill. This potion could be a Major Brutality potion if you so choose so you are not locked down to any particular weapon.

However with the potion's i have in mind to chug, i will still be using two hand as a buff bar.

Tip: You can buy Major Brutality potion's from siege merchant's for 750 ap each. If you do not want to farm potion's they are a descent alternative.

lathbury · March 2016

dont like 2h want brutality out of combat try potions

Xvorg · March 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Dragonknights and Sorcerers have out of combat skills that can be cast to grant them Major Brutality and Major Sorcery. You don't have to hit enemies for the buff to activate and can drop some significant damage on your initial hit from stealth.. Yet, Nightblades, who are the class who are supposed to be able to deal the most damage from stealth, must slot 2H (to cast Momentum) as their backup and weapon swap to their desired weapon if they want to maximize their initial damage from stealth.

Why?

Can't we just remove the requirement that makes Drain Power have to hit an enemy to activate Major Brutality and Major Sorcery? The lack of an out-of-combat buff for Nightblades does not make sense to me.

grim focus is way better...

Anyway, you can get major brutality through DW, using hidden blade

Grim Focus --> Hidden Blade -> Ambush -> Surprise attack/Steel Tornado --> tadaaaaa

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Dragonknights and Sorcerers have out of combat skills that can be cast to grant them Major Brutality and Major Sorcery. You don't have to hit enemies for the buff to activate and can drop some significant damage on your initial hit from stealth.. Yet, Nightblades, who are the class who are supposed to be able to deal the most damage from stealth, must slot 2H (to cast Momentum) as their backup and weapon swap to their desired weapon if they want to maximize their initial damage from stealth.

Why?

Can't we just remove the requirement that makes Drain Power have to hit an enemy to activate Major Brutality and Major Sorcery? The lack of an out-of-combat buff for Nightblades does not make sense to me.

grim focus is way better...

Anyway, you can get major brutality through DW, using hidden blade

Grim Focus --> Hidden Blade -> Ambush -> Surprise attack/Steel Tornado --> tadaaaaa

Right, you can get major brutality through hidden blade, but you can't cast it out of combat. You have to attack an enemy to gain the bonus.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

You mean you play a class that has skill line access to major brutality and major sorcery.

You do realize there is a class in the game that does not have access to either buff in their class skill lines at all, right?

The argument your making is better phrased into they need to look hard at weapon skill lines and why 2H is so ridiculously better then everything else.

A buff NB argument is not very compelling at all NB's are not in need of a buff.

My hope is in update 10 Dark Brothehood DLC they move Momentum and its morphs to the fighters guild skill line and take a long hard look at DW, Bow, and 2H.

For all those so inclined I fully expect Uppecut and its morphs to be adjusted with dark brotherhood. What adjusted means I have no idea with what I've seen from this combat team they could reduce the range by 2 meters and increase the damage by 20% which would cause the forums to explode, it would be funny but it would still be a fire.

You're right in suggesting that perhaps the better argument would be looking at weapon skill lines. As a stamina build, why would anyone run with anything other than 2H?

Bofrari · March 2016

Your really complaining about nbs?

WillhelmBlack · March 2016

Oh dear, poor Templars, I mean Nightblades.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I agree with OP.

I personally hate using a two hand weapon just to have access to a form of major brutality while in stealth. If anything could be done to prevent this would be great.

Once the Thief's Guild DLC come's out their will be a new set called "The Cleaver Alchemist". This set will give you a ton of damage when you drink a potion. So technically you could be drinking a potion per kill in cryodill. This potion could be a Major Brutality potion if you so choose so you are not locked down to any particular weapon.

However with the potion's i have in mind to chug, i will still be using two hand as a buff bar.

Tip: You can buy Major Brutality potion's from siege merchant's for 750 ap each. If you do not want to farm potion's they are a descent alternative.

Being forced to use a weapon type you wouldn't have chosen to output more damage. Sounds familiar. Sounds like every dual wielding magicka build lol.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

JDC1985 wrote: »

Your really complaining about nbs?

As acw37162 pointed out, the better argument is about weapon imbalance. 2H is just too "necessary" for a stamina build.

WeWereNords · March 2016

I agree 2h is to necessary for stam builds, but DK's don't have a major brutality buff that I know of. I play stam DK and also have to slot 2h, I use it as my primary DPS however but I feel your pain. the fighters guild needs to have a skill that buffs weapon damage just like mages guild has entropy, that would change the game with stam builds.

However stam is also OP as it is and you really shouldn't be complaining at all.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2016

WeWereNords wrote: »

I agree 2h is to necessary for stam builds, but DK's don't have a major brutality buff that I know of. I play stam DK and also have to slot 2h, I use it as my primary DPS however but I feel your pain. the fighters guild needs to have a skill that buffs weapon damage just like mages guild has entropy, that would change the game with stam builds.

However stam is also OP as it is and you really shouldn't be complaining at all.

DK's are getting major brutality added to Igneous Weapons (courtesy of the PTS patch notes). And I'm with you in saying that Fighter's Guild should mirror Mage's Guild buffs.

melodeath · March 2016

the problem with nb and the major brutality buff is just the fact that 2h is quite a (to) strong skill line.

and when you look at nb (who are already stronk) that basicly have to use 2h and up to 4 other skills of that tree (since our abbilities deal magic damage) we might end up swapping all our class skills onto 2h since those give us alot more damage.

so it might be better to just tone down 2h and maybe give nb's and temps (?) a major brutality buff in a class skill line to add a bit more diversity instead of just having to go for the best one out there (rally)

and i bet alot more stamblades are going to be going onto a 2h with wrecking blow in pvp since our suprise attack will be alot less (nice) with the magelight buff.

Ashamray · March 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Why?

Cuz Templars don't have Major Brutality at all.

Forestd16b14_ESO · March 2016

Seriously ? A buff NB thread ?....... I don't why I even bother coming on the forums any more.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2016

Minor Berserk is incredibly underrated.

Septimus_Magna · March 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minor Berserk is incredibly underrated.

On my stam NB I get almost the same dmg buff on my tooltip with minor berserk as I get with major brutality, but you can stack both.

This is one of the reasons NBs put out such high burst, and you can buff up with both from stealth.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2016

With the incoming buff's to bow passives Stamina NB's might be able to put out top dps while being bow centric. Everyone will have access to the 15% damage increase from weaving light attacks and getting 3 stacks but Minor Berserk means Stamina NB's will be able to sustain 8% higher, that particular ability will also buff their stam regen by 10%.

DK's and NB's both will have access to Major Brutality although one would probably get it from 2H rather than class abilities although its there to be had. So the big difference stack up for stamina is as follows:

DK: On use of Earthen Heart magicka based spell: Minor Brutality(5% weapon dmg for 10s), 5% stamina return. 70% of Ultimate cost returned as Magicka/Stamina/Health. Block 10% more damage and higher spell defense.

NB: Magicka cost ability gives Minor Berserk(8% dmg from all sources), and 10% stamina regen for 20s. 15% regen to all resources Mag/Stam/HP. 10% more damage from stealth, 0-6% more crit depending on skills slotted, Minor Savagery(5% crit) for 20s after successful crit, 10% more crit dmg.

That is just focusing on passives available that are mostly relevant to stamina builds. That doesn't include an evaluation of abilities.

DK: Stamina based single target melee fire DOT. Stamina based AOE melee fire DOT with Minor Fracture. Magicka based Major Resolve/Ward. Magicka based Major Brutality/Sorcery. Magicka based projectile reflect. Magicka based gap closer. Physical dmg Ultimate.

NB: Stamina based execute with heal on execute. Stamina based gap closer with stun/incapacitate and empower(20% more dmg for next attack). Stamina based direct dmg melee with stun from stealth/invisibility and Minor Fracture and Major Resolve/Ward for 4s after use. Stamina based AOE with Major Brutality and Major Sorcery for 20s. Magicka based Major Fracture/Breach + heal on target death.

I really don't think from a DPS perspective you can argue that DK's have it anywhere near as good as NB's for stamina builds.

Jar_Ek · March 2016

Hah, try being a stamina sorcerer. Our only damage buff was mjr brutality and now everyone can get it from 2 weapon skills lines plus DKs will be able to from a class skill.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2016

Well to be fair, there are DOT centric builds where the DOT's DK's have access to make them better.

acw37162 · March 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minor Berserk is incredibly underrated.

My V16 NB, which is primarily a crafting/writ character. Kills almost everything it comes across faster in V14 purple morkludin then my V16 Templar with gold Hundings/2 piece Kena/and 3 agility.

Minor Beserk is indeed truly underrated.

Toc de Malsvi · March 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Minor Berserk is incredibly underrated.

My V16 NB, which is primarily a crafting/writ character. Kills almost everything it comes across faster in V14 purple morkludin then my V16 Templar with gold Hundings/2 piece Kena/and 3 agility.

Minor Beserk is undead truly overrated.

....Your class that has Minor Beserk is better than your class that doesn't and that means Minor Berserk is overrated....?