Is 51 Champion Points per Quarter the right mark for ZOS to set?

Sausage · February 2016

Other

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Ourorboros · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

Sausage · February 2016

Other

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

AlnilamE · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Yeah, Ouroboros is right. I have 3 v16s and a v3 who all PvP in turns. Also have friends leveling alts who take them to PvP.

What you are not considering is that whenever the cap is raised, the formula switches and CP at the lower end become cheaper.

Obviously most people won't reach the CP cap, that's not the intention of the cap at all. The idea is that someone with low/no CP will have an easier time getting CP than someone who has more, and that is working. I have friends I play with regularly that seem to just rake in CP when they play because of enlightenment and them not having that many. It's working fine. I think they can raise the cap a bit more and it will still be ok.

Sausage · February 2016

Other

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Yeah, Ouroboros is right. I have 3 v16s and a v3 who all PvP in turns. Also have friends leveling alts who take them to PvP.

What you are not considering is that whenever the cap is raised, the formula switches and CP at the lower end become cheaper.

Obviously most people won't reach the CP cap, that's not the intention of the cap at all. The idea is that someone with low/no CP will have an easier time getting CP than someone who has more, and that is working. I have friends I play with regularly that seem to just rake in CP when they play because of enlightenment and them not having that many. It's working fine. I think they can raise the cap a bit more and it will still be ok.

If I was Zen I'd remove Silver/Gold and wouldnt raise CP-cap until community begs and cry for it, really on their knees. That should quarantee highest possible population for us.

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

If their really banking on CP being their only progression hook, then 51 is too low.

Ourorboros · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Sure like to know where you are getting your information about player levels, CP levels, Cadwell completion. I know players with multiple vets and over 400 CP who have only been playing around 6 months. In a CP poll, about 30% of voters were over the CP cap, and a lot were near it. And not ALL of us will play the game regardless of the CP cap. I detest the CP penalty so much, I plan to cut my sub and play time. I do not want to be perpetually over the CP cap.

Sausage · February 2016

Other

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Sure like to know where you are getting your information about player levels, CP levels, Cadwell completion. I know players with multiple vets and over 400 CP who have only been playing around 6 months. In a CP poll, about 30% of voters were over the CP cap, and a lot were near it. And not ALL of us will play the game regardless of the CP cap. I detest the CP penalty so much, I plan to cut my sub and play time. I do not want to be perpetually over the CP cap.

Fair enough, its Zen's call ultimately. But as long time MMORPG gamer, more endgame on top of endgame is flaw in my opinion. Rift did exactly that it added whole the time more vertical progression and after 2 year, the journey itself was sick as hell.

AlnilamE · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Sausage wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Yeah, Ouroboros is right. I have 3 v16s and a v3 who all PvP in turns. Also have friends leveling alts who take them to PvP.

What you are not considering is that whenever the cap is raised, the formula switches and CP at the lower end become cheaper.

Obviously most people won't reach the CP cap, that's not the intention of the cap at all. The idea is that someone with low/no CP will have an easier time getting CP than someone who has more, and that is working. I have friends I play with regularly that seem to just rake in CP when they play because of enlightenment and them not having that many. It's working fine. I think they can raise the cap a bit more and it will still be ok.

If I was Zen I'd remove Silver/Gold and wouldnt raise CP-cap until community begs and cry for it, really on their knees. That should quarantee highest possible population for us.

Why would you remove gold/silver? Why take away possible content from players?

It really depends on the population turnover. If there is a large influx of players that stay a month and then go somewhere else, that that would work. If they want their player base to stay medium to long term, that that would become problematic.

Sausage · February 2016

Other

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Ive played Cyrodil now couple month and I see tons low levels and Vr1-15, so I suspect most people wont even reach CP-cap, so why it needs to be raised in first place.

Sorry, this does not hold water.You have no way of knowing if the non v16s are alts of someone with 501 or more CP. I have 3 alts, two non-vet and one v14, that I am playing while I am over the cap.

But we all would still play this game even if they didnt raise it. Majority of the player doesnt even reach lvl50, not to mention Silver/Gold, not to mention 501 CP. I wouldnt want to take it too far to be honest.

Yeah, Ouroboros is right. I have 3 v16s and a v3 who all PvP in turns. Also have friends leveling alts who take them to PvP.

What you are not considering is that whenever the cap is raised, the formula switches and CP at the lower end become cheaper.

Obviously most people won't reach the CP cap, that's not the intention of the cap at all. The idea is that someone with low/no CP will have an easier time getting CP than someone who has more, and that is working. I have friends I play with regularly that seem to just rake in CP when they play because of enlightenment and them not having that many. It's working fine. I think they can raise the cap a bit more and it will still be ok.

If I was Zen I'd remove Silver/Gold and wouldnt raise CP-cap until community begs and cry for it, really on their knees. That should quarantee highest possible population for us.

Why would you remove gold/silver? Why take away possible content from players?

It really depends on the population turnover. If there is a large influx of players that stay a month and then go somewhere else, that that would work. If they want their player base to stay medium to long term, that that would become problematic.

I remember when we discussed about Silver/Gold zones before PC-launch and for me Silver/Gold was nothing more than tripled launch content what I know most MMORPGs dreams about, they could just remove them and put achievements to account-wide and perfect crime has been performed. Zen could almost do a fresh start, thats something what most MMORPG's can only dream, when game gets odler, fresh starts are even harder to commit

To put it bluntly, remove Silver and Gold is no doubt a crime but its totally justified.

xellink · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

I don't care if theres 100000 cps or 1 cp. As long as there's a level playing field in PVP.

This can be achieved by introducing ultra-diminishing returns.

hrothbern · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

I am fine with the 51 per quarter for the coming year or so.

The player CP catch up gives time to consolidate the game for the devs for balancing issues, which will be easier for a player base that is closer together in amount of CP.

I guess it will be difficult enough to write good DLC's, that satisfy players ranging from elite to very casual, for a player base that has so much diversity in play skill level as of now !

After that big re-balancing is done, I would welcome a bigger increase per quarter, but not too much.

Why not much ?

As long as the CP cap is lower than 1200, the CP tree will increase build diversity
Above 1800 or so, and certainly at 3600, the CP tree will not contribute anymore to build diversity, but only function as a multiplier of the armor set build & ability choice diversity.

LiquidSchwartz · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

i dont plan on wasting my time for 15 years to hit max cp unless their dlc is KILLER

DaveMoeDee · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Leandor wrote: »

With medium-high playtime, I managed ~100 CP in 2 months. From that point of view, 51 seems low, for quarterly raises. EDIT for clarity: those were the last 100 CP to cap, at which I am now (plus 3 or so, have been playing nonvet PvP to level another char in the last two weeks, so sitting on 900k enlightenment currently)

I would guess that I'd manage another 30 in the approx. 1.5 months until Update 9 goes live, meaning that I'll be at cap about 1 month in with another 2 to 3 months to go until next rise. Even with the progression of point cost, players will at some point be at the new cap upon its release.

But then, they said they will reevaluate the cap steps once a substantial amount of players are at or near cap. While I fear that this strategy will only increase turnaround (long term players leaving, newbies joining), I am willing to give it a shot.

I'm still not halfway to cap. While I like progress, I find it annoying that I feel pressure to earn CP daily to not waste enlightenment when I'd rather be leveling another alt to V1. I like leveling alts because each has a different play style (4 classes x 2 attribute focuses). With alts, I get to rediscover the class skills as I level. With my vet characters, I am just re-using the same 10 skills over and over again.

If the goal is a more horizontal progression feel, a slow rise makes sense. I do think it is a little to slow though. 200 CP a year?

I'm curious how many CP someone at 501 would get just by playing through the TG content once.

Xeven · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

I have made ~ 50cp at a cost of 1.3 million per cp since the release of wrothgar.

If the don´t increase it with thieves guild and then go by only 51 cp every quater of a year i get to use the cp i have now middle of 2017. Rework the whole system but please i want character progression too.

Going with 99 for every update introduced with TG would be something i could get behind even though i´d like a system rework that allows for permanent minimal progression better than caps.

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

It's about right. They want people to catch up not get trampled on. If people are such good players they won't mind the competition being the same skill/power level as them. If they do mind they need to get gud

It´s not about outleveling and stomping noobs - they could easily circumvent that by having a catchup questline putting you at ~50% of the current cap (cadwells gold/silver after vet removal anyone?).
People want character progression. With this announcement they´ve stated that i won´t have any character advancement for ALL of my characters for atleast 1.5 years.
I don´t think that´s acceptable.

Derra, the last thing you want is a server full of people with nothing better to spend 100cp on besides shattering blows.

The whole system is whack. We need to see what kind of balance Dark Brotherhood brings before we start opening the CP flood gates.

DaveMoeDee · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

With diminishing returns, and increase of 51 CP might be absurd in a few years. They might want the cap increase to be proportional to the diminishing marginal added power of CP. The simplest approach would be to assume that people allocate CP in a round robin approach in all 36 champion skills. So the CP cap increase should be the inverse of the increase in skill magnitude by adding another point.

501 CP means about 14 CP per skill. The cap increase should be based on the total % stat increase. For example, if the 15th CP added .3 % to a stat, and for the sake of simplicity we assume that all 51 CP add .3, we can say that the total power increase is 15.3 for TG.

Suppose when DB comes out the added power of the next CP is .2%. The cap increase should be 15.3 / .2 or around 75 or 78.

If we want to further accelerate the cap increases, instead of maintaining a flat power increase for each DLC (of 15.3 in this example), we could have a % increased based on total power. For example, 15.3% is a smaller % of total power with 501 CP than it would be with 552 CP.

Ourorboros · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I started this thread in mid-January. It generated a lot of interest, and like most threads, died out. What I find interesting is how many new posts have popped up today after someone bumped it. Regardless how you feel about the CP cap, it's obvious this topic is a concern for many players. There have been good arguments from both sides.

Half the voters think the cap is too low, far outweighing all other vote options. Granted, this doesn't prove anything about the entire player base. But it reflects the opinion of forum users. I wonder how everyone in favor of current CP caps will feel when they reach the cap (and, yes, I know there are a few at the cap who also favor the limit). It's easy to be in favor of the cap when it isn't affecting you yet.

As to CP and PVP, sure if two equally skilled players fought each other, a large CP divide would give an advantage. But how often does that really happen? It usually comes down to numbers or those who have mastered weaving and cast 3 or more attacks for each opponent attack, not how many CP players have.

The Uninvited · February 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

Bear in mind, I'm just at the cap. I think 99 or 102 would be better, because like some said before we won't be here in 15 to 18 years.

Granted, you wouldn't need all the CP to complete content but than I ask why is 3600 CP still the limit? Either increase the CP that can be used per quarter OR... make like 1800 CP the maximum amount of CP that can be earned.

Farorin · February 2016

Other

elium85 wrote: »

@Farorin Even at 102 CP (multiple of 3) per DLC it's not grinding when there's 90 days of enlightenment in between all of them.

I was responding to the quote, not the thread as a whole, the quote from the person suggested that they wanted a reason to grind, I simply asked them why anybody in their right mind would WANT to mindlessly grind, when they could be playing content instead.

That being said, I am completely fine with the cap that they have set, and the limit they have set, because it is playing the game that is fun for me, not grinding out champion points. even if it is an easy or short grind, I would rather just be able to focus on the gameplay.

AFrostWolf · February 2016

What's a CP?

Should remove the whole system instead.

ButtersEP · March 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

I don't ever want to reach the cap on CP, why would I play on a regular basis if the CP I earned did not apply to my character, currently im around 407 CP.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2016

51 CP per Quarter seems about right

the game is not designed for 3600 cp(or any cp for that matter). anyone who went on the pts to test full cp will tell you its stupid and will ruin the game. they need small cap raising and a max cap at probably 1/3 total or so. can always add other things to progress in the future.

ChuckyPayne · March 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

The CP cap disturbs the veterans, hc players only.

51 CP maybe is good enough if we would get CP cap in other way, it just an idea
for example
- Your accont birthday: + 51 CP cap
- Cadwell's gold: + 51 CP cap / character
- All trial Hard Mode: + 51 CP / character
- All Dungeon achievement: + 51 CP /character

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2016

Other

Honestly they need to scale up the content before adding more CP. most of the 4 man dungeons now are just face roll easy at 300 cp and even more so the higher you go.

Does anyone remember caldwells silver and gold in 2014 a skeever would kill you in two hits at vet rank, if you took on more then 3 trash mobs you would die. Molag Bal was actually hard. Anyone remember Doshia before the nerf?

I don't think they should add a single more CP until they scale up some of the content a bit. Spindle clutch and other vet dungeons are just too stinking easy with 300 cp.

I don't want things made ridiculously hard, but it would be nice to Atleast have to do the mechanics instead of using DPS to bypass them

Destyran · March 2016

Other

Remove the cap or remove cp its tailored to the casual instant gratification way. This is a mmo people should be better than others. They are removing vet ranks. So when anyones gets to 50 they will be instantly 160

Own · March 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

xellink wrote: »

I don't care if theres 100000 cps or 1 cp. As long as there's a level playing field in PVP.

This can be achieved by introducing ultra-diminishing returns.

This is the best comment on here. maybe make cp more diminishing? I want lower levels and new players to have 500 cp also so we can have more competition in pvp. This is fixed anyways with no cp pvp servers, which I will probably ditch my setup/cp and play.

The Uninvited · March 2016

51 CP per Quarter is too low

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Honestly they need to scale up the content before adding more CP. most of the 4 man dungeons now are just face roll easy at 300 cp and even more so the higher you go.

Does anyone remember caldwells silver and gold in 2014 a skeever would kill you in two hits at vet rank, if you took on more then 3 trash mobs you would die. Molag Bal was actually hard. Anyone remember Doshia before the nerf?

I don't think they should add a single more CP until they scale up some of the content a bit. Spindle clutch and other vet dungeons are just too stinking easy with 300 cp.

I don't want things made ridiculously hard, but it would be nice to Atleast have to do the mechanics instead of using DPS to bypass them

There are still people just starting the game with 0 CP, wouldn't really be fair to them. We'll see what happens with scaling after vet ranks are removed. Who knows, maybe it will feel like the old days again.