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Why doesn't talons have cc immunity?
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LiquidSchwartz✭✭✭✭✭Infinite12 wrote: »
Lol are you playing in first person? Blocking still blocks even from behindMay the Schwartz be with you.EP/XB1/NA0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@leepalmer95 , let's try this again...
Like I said, it's not about talons. Talons are melee range and thus are not a major problem. Ranged CC like bombard or encase is a lot more potent.leepalmer95 wrote: »Templar don't need to use purge, then have purifying ritual which is a lot cheaper, costs less to purge the root than for a dk to cast it.
I've never, ever lost a magicka Templar who got away with purge spam unless he had a friendly group literally within 20 meters of him and saved him. He can Purify all he wants, Ambush spam will keep him unable to move 80% of the time while doing 5k damage per ambush.leepalmer95 wrote: »A mag dk can have a root fight with another mag dk.
Wtf is a "root fight"? Did you read my post? The world of cyrodiil is not 1v1s. If you are rooted by another DK and his 5 friends are you gonna stand there and have a "root fight"?leepalmer95 wrote: »Any stam user will not have a problem with roots.
They very much do. Dodge-roll cost stacks. Root-spam doesn't. Currently they can use Retreating Manouvers for near-permanent immunity. Next patch they won't even be able to speed-buff their way out of it.leepalmer95 wrote: »Sorc can streak, nb's can ambush/lotus.
Sorcs can only streak in the direction they are facing when rooted. That was also a recent change. Not to mention that they teleport with the root still on them.
NB's can only ambush to a target. Which means if you are trying to get away, it won't be much help will it?
Every patch since 1.5 roots are getting stronger and stronger. That's the reality.EU | PC | AD3 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭6 -
Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭
the only one that lasts over 10s that isn't canceled out if you are hit
this coming from a Templar who uses it as my gap closer hahahahaEdited by Lightninvash on February 23, 2016 4:38PM0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.1 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭Infinite12 wrote: »Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »Infinite12 wrote: »Dread_Knight_N7 wrote: »
Neither do nightblades.
Again, not true. Crippling grasp is a root
cripple isnt a root, its a snare.
It's an immobilize.
no its not, you can move if you egt hit by cripple, you just move 40% slower. like if you stand in caltrops or in nova.
bombard, talons and mines dont let you move around.
While we're at it, Teleport Strike is also a Root in PvP and a stun in PvE
Yes but you can't teleport strike 6 people at once. Talons is a aoe cc. Should have immunity.
Well one is single target and talons is aoe I think its around 6 meters I think. But hey I don't care you need to know how to counter it but if the person is gap closing on you. The gap closing reduce speed is going to be tooned down so your character won't freeze in place while talonsed in thieves guild patch hopefully.
Also I hated it too but My character which is a Nord DK has 3k health recovery with around 13 to 15 k stamina recovery. Pretty good recovery if you ask me.Edited by sneakymitchell on February 23, 2016 6:56PMNA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
I read them while I'm stunned during Retreating Maneuvers from Spambushes 'n crit charges.
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Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
I read them while I'm stunned during Retreating Maneuvers from Spambushes 'n crit charges.
break free and then hit retreating maneuvers it will buy you a few seconds to get away or counter attack.... simple mechanics if used right0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightninvash wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
I read them while I'm stunned during Retreating Maneuvers from Spambushes 'n crit charges.
break free and then hit retreating maneuvers it will buy you a few seconds to get away or counter attack.... simple mechanics if used right
Which we all know doesn't work due to gap closer "mechanics" and it's unbreakable root. Next patch it will even last longer (but snare not root, which won't matter since the zerg will be on top of you due to the unavoidable snare)2 -
Lol why? Chains already grants crappy cc immunity, talons should definitely not. Talons isnt cheap either.Edited by Galvanize on February 24, 2016 2:45PMPS4/EU
PSN - Galvanise
Galvanize - V16 High Elf Magicka Sorcerer AD (Main)
Shoonoo - V16 Wood Elf Stamina Nightblade AD
Twaddle - V16 High Elf Magicka Templar AD
Need name pls - V16 Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight AD
SplarrIsagayla - V16 Redguard Stamina Dragonknight AD
Galvanise Deus - V16 High Elf Magicka Nightblade DC
Gee Two Kay - V16 High Elf Templar DC
Jormasauros Jr - V16 Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight DC
Lynog the Jedi - V16 Stamina Sorcerer DC
Asemplee - V16 Redguard Stamina Nightblade DC0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The OP is off on an tangent that is counter productive.
Talons are not a major culprit nor are they op compared to other rooting skills. There's no basis for a Talons-specific nerf or immunity granted only to Talons, from Talons.
The discussion should be: "Considering the changes to mechanics like dodge roll and retreating manoeuvres, is rooting becoming too strong?"Lightninvash wrote: »break free and then hit retreating maneuvers it will buy you a few seconds to get away or counter attack.... simple mechanics if used rightLightninvash wrote: »retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
You keep talking about Retreating Manoeuvres.
You seem to have not factored in a couple of things:- It does not prevent the root from gap closers which ignores all immunities. Try to run with RM while i spam Ambush on you, see how far you get.
- From the next patch, receiving a heal will make you lose the buff. Same as it currently is with attacking.
- It costs an absolute bomb. You talk about CC breaking and casting RM as if that's not consuming nearly 100% of the stamina of any magic build out there (and a huge chunk of a stam builds pool too). How much does root spam cost in comparison? Yeah...
Rooting is about to become the strongest form of CC in this game, by far. That for me is the general issue.
Because by CC breaking or by using Immovability pots you can gain immunity to hard CC for an amount of time ranging from 8"-15". And that is available to all builds (magicka/stamina). Which is both necessary and fine because otherwise the game would be a CC spam-fest.
But the only way to get immunity to roots/slows is to either:- Cast a spell which costs more stamina than CC break and stop attacking/healing (which basically means stop using skills)
- Be a medium armor, stamina build with shuffle. Non-medium builds get no immunity whatsoever.
In other games skills, especially CC skills, have cooldowns. I like that we don't have that here, but when there are no cooldowns you need mechanisms for short periods of immunity otherwise you end up constantly CCed. Which is dumb gameplay imo.Edited by Maulkin on February 24, 2016 2:52PMEU | PC | AD3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.
Shuffle is cheaper ^^,PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.
Shuffle is cheaper ^^,
But double take doesn't consume my stamina :-)0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.
Shuffle is cheaper ^^,
But double take doesn't consume my stamina :-)
Mag nb, hmm, Efficient purge, fear them so they run away from you and can't recast it immediately.
To be fair a mag nb shouldn't have much trouble killing a mag dk anyway.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.
Shuffle is cheaper ^^,
But double take doesn't consume my stamina :-)
Mag nb, hmm, Efficient purge, fear them so they run away from you and can't recast it immediately.
To be fair a mag nb shouldn't have much trouble killing a mag dk anyway.
Well my main is a stam blade, but keep in mind that swallow soul is reflectable. And this game isn't so decisive that if you're a particular class you'll always beat another particular class. I've 1vX with every class in this game; they're all powerful if built properly.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Lightninvash wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Just dodge roll quit asking them to change stuff in the game that works well. There is plenty of other stuff that actually needs attention.
Yes, and when they root you immediately afterwards, just dodge roll again, and keep repeating the process until you have no stamina left. Then die.
retreating maneuvers gets rid of roots and prevents you from being rooted temporarily >.> doesn't anyone read the skills morphs anymore
No thanks. Dodge rolling is cheaper.
Shuffle is cheaper ^^,
But double take doesn't consume my stamina :-)
Mag nb, hmm, Efficient purge, fear them so they run away from you and can't recast it immediately.
To be fair a mag nb shouldn't have much trouble killing a mag dk anyway.
Well my main is a stam blade, but keep in mind that swallow soul is reflectable. And this game isn't so decisive that if you're a particular class you'll always beat another particular class. I've 1vX with every class in this game; they're all powerful if built properly.
Aaah a desto Mag nb. Yeah thats a bad matchup, though you could out cloak from your own reflected attack. Most builds have trouble with a dk's reflect, but a dk won't have enough dmg to kill you, especially if you use harness.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Aquanova✭✭✭✭✭[quote="mike.gaziotisb16_ESO;2717402"
Every patch since 1.5 roots are getting stronger and stronger. That's the reality.[/quote]
And they should be. Wtf is a root good for if they can easily be purged?
Especially on a class who's skills provide no real burst!
When whip or some other dk skill does the kind of damage that SA or frags or dark flare can do, then moan about this kinda ***.NA/PC0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[quote="mike.gaziotisb16_ESO;2717402"
Every patch since 1.5 roots are getting stronger and stronger. That's the reality.
And they should be. Wtf is a root good for if they can easily be purged?
Especially on a class who's skills provide no real burst!
When whip or some other dk skill does the kind of damage that SA or frags or dark flare can do, then moan about this kinda ***.[/quote]
Good point, you get rooted and can't get away, Doesn't matter if the dk then proceeds to attempt to tickle you to death xDPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And they should be. Wtf is a root good for if they can easily be purged?
I fail to see your point. What is it? That you should be able to spam roots all day long at minimal cost and no one should be able to move without paying insane penalties? What other game has that?
There's a reason CC skills have cooldowns in every other game. There's a reason hard CC offers a long immunity in this game too.
The other thing you are discrediting is that apart from rooting, most skills in this game are not pure roots, they also do very good damage. Talons for example is high AoE damage (higher than Impulse for example) and a dot. Even if targets are immune to the root, they still take the damage & dot.Especially on a class who's skills provide no real burst!
When whip or some other dk skill does the kind of damage that SA or frags or dark flare can do, then moan about this kinda ***.
Again you're failing to see the point. I'm not petitioning for a DK specific nerf. I'm asking for a rethink on how roots in general work to add only a couple of seconds of immunity IF you pay the cost to perform a dodge roll. So the game does not become all about spamming roots. I'd also be up for upping the base cost of dodge roll a bit to compensate.
You would still be able apply a root 2" later. But just spamming it so players can't move while somebody else does the killing is just grief play basically, like Ambush spam is atm.
Your burst damage is of little relevance in this discussion though for what it's worth I'm all for giving DKs a burst skill hidden behind some rng proc or long cast time (like Assassin's Will or Frags or Dark Flare). They tried to give that to Flame Lash proc but it's too reliant on a root in PvP. They could tweak that to be your burst.
And FYI, Flame Whip has same base damage as CW/SA but thanks to DK Ardent Flame passives (and Dunmer/High Elf passives if you are that race) it actually does higher damage. The issue with SA hitting harder was purely down to Champion System bias towards stam builds, which is getting sorted in 2.3.Edited by Maulkin on February 24, 2016 3:53PMEU | PC | AD1
