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Why do you continue to keep introducing unbalanced DPS sets?
RinaldoGandolphi
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Everyone here remembers when ZOS said:
"People are dying to fast in PVP, so we are going to bring the Battle Spirit nerf where we nerf everyones tooltip damage by 50%"
They then introduce sets that go against the very principle they are trying to put into place by tossing out the Winterborn, Elemental Succession, and Briarheart sets (This isn't a discussion about how good or bad these sets are, im showing a recurring theme bear with me)
Now we see in the Thieves Guild update again were doing the same thing:
Clever Alchemist - Lets give someone 630+ WEapon and Spell Damage for drinking a potion
Warrior's Fury - Lets give someone X amount of Weapon damage for 6 secs everytime they take damage and let it stack 20 times
Roar of Alkosh - When using a synergy lets do damage and lets reduce their armor and add a 12k Dot over 10 secs
Vicious Death - when killing a player let him explode for 15k Flame damage
Moondancer - After activating a Synergy lets give you 430+ Spell damage and 430+ Magicka Recovery for 30 seconds
Marksman Crest - Lets reduce bow costs by 5% and increase their damage against players by a flat 8%
COME ON ZOS!!!!!!!
Where is the tanks sets?
Oh Tanks get Lunar Bastion that gives a 2k shield
What about healers?
Oh we get Robes of Transmutation that gives a small crit resist buff for 1 sec
Its no wonder no one wants to be a healer or a tank in this game anymore. You give them nothing.
Its ok to use any of the sets above or even Kena and get a ton of Spell or Weapon damage with no cooldown, but heaven forbid anyone procs Bloodspawn more then once every 6-8 secs that would be OP because it gives 6k resist....do you even understand how absurd that is compared to these small or no cooldown DPS sets you keep introducing?
So in the next update, when you raise the CP cap, are you going to raise the Battle Spirit Damage reduction to 70%? Your going to have to do something because you are doing nothing but creating a game of power creep. Power Creep that is clearly easy to see an irresponsible.
You guys don't even both creating any sets anymore that have any type of utility, instead you just keep churning out DLC with DPS sets that have more and more damage for people to grind, you create no utility, tank, defensive, or healing sets that are worth anything but continue to ramp up damage.
Im to the point this game should be called "the Elder DPS Online" because all you do is keep ramping up damage with DPS sets while giving healers and tanks zero, not creating any kind of sets to increase survival. no new utility sets at all(Engine Guradian is an example of a utility set)
All we want is utility and options and ZOS just keeps giving us DPS sets....its no wonder healers and tanks are the hardest roles to fill for dungeons, who in the heck would want to be a healer or a tank when ZOS gives them nothing......
"People are dying to fast in PVP, so we are going to bring the Battle Spirit nerf where we nerf everyones tooltip damage by 50%"
They then introduce sets that go against the very principle they are trying to put into place by tossing out the Winterborn, Elemental Succession, and Briarheart sets (This isn't a discussion about how good or bad these sets are, im showing a recurring theme bear with me)
Now we see in the Thieves Guild update again were doing the same thing:
Clever Alchemist - Lets give someone 630+ WEapon and Spell Damage for drinking a potion
Warrior's Fury - Lets give someone X amount of Weapon damage for 6 secs everytime they take damage and let it stack 20 times
Roar of Alkosh - When using a synergy lets do damage and lets reduce their armor and add a 12k Dot over 10 secs
Vicious Death - when killing a player let him explode for 15k Flame damage
Moondancer - After activating a Synergy lets give you 430+ Spell damage and 430+ Magicka Recovery for 30 seconds
Marksman Crest - Lets reduce bow costs by 5% and increase their damage against players by a flat 8%
COME ON ZOS!!!!!!!
Where is the tanks sets?
Oh Tanks get Lunar Bastion that gives a 2k shield
What about healers?
Oh we get Robes of Transmutation that gives a small crit resist buff for 1 sec
Its no wonder no one wants to be a healer or a tank in this game anymore. You give them nothing.
Its ok to use any of the sets above or even Kena and get a ton of Spell or Weapon damage with no cooldown, but heaven forbid anyone procs Bloodspawn more then once every 6-8 secs that would be OP because it gives 6k resist....do you even understand how absurd that is compared to these small or no cooldown DPS sets you keep introducing?
So in the next update, when you raise the CP cap, are you going to raise the Battle Spirit Damage reduction to 70%? Your going to have to do something because you are doing nothing but creating a game of power creep. Power Creep that is clearly easy to see an irresponsible.
You guys don't even both creating any sets anymore that have any type of utility, instead you just keep churning out DLC with DPS sets that have more and more damage for people to grind, you create no utility, tank, defensive, or healing sets that are worth anything but continue to ramp up damage.
Im to the point this game should be called "the Elder DPS Online" because all you do is keep ramping up damage with DPS sets while giving healers and tanks zero, not creating any kind of sets to increase survival. no new utility sets at all(Engine Guradian is an example of a utility set)
All we want is utility and options and ZOS just keeps giving us DPS sets....its no wonder healers and tanks are the hardest roles to fill for dungeons, who in the heck would want to be a healer or a tank when ZOS gives them nothing......
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak
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Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a healer you get Twilight Remedy to boost the DPS of your group (believe it or not that's one of the healers jobs) in addition to Spell Power Cure. Tanks get a 4% damage reduction against bosses in a 3-piece set. That in itself is viable and the Lunar 5-piece isn't too bad either. For PvP tanks they get Fasalla's Guile. I understand where you're coming from...power creep is bad, but it's hardly fair to say tanks and healers get nothing.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!15 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are no new tanks sets, pet sets, healing sets in the new updates that are remotely viable. People still running Footman sets and Necropotence sets with v12-v14 gear.
It's weird. Since IC, all sets have been focused around extra SD/WD and damage procs. They need to look at that I agreeEdited by Maulkin on February 18, 2016 1:19PMEU | PC | AD7 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree that clever alchemist and marksman are strong for gankers.
But the rest isn't as bad as you make it.
Transmution provides about 18% crit damage reduction that stacks additive with impen armour.
Leki reduces all aoe damage you take by 25% and stacks with blade cloak.
Fasalla's guile reduces the healing by 50% every time someone attacks you and stacks with other healing debuffs.
Warriors Fury is heavy armour and requires you to be outnumbered to get a significant damage bonus.
Vicious death only does damage after you died, so as long as you don't run in a stack-on-crown zerg you'll be fine.
Mondancer provides spell damage or magicka reg and it's random what you get. Also the 3 piece bonus of this set is useless in pvp.
Edited by lolo_01b16_ESO on February 18, 2016 1:32PM1 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is that defensive stats are tied to offensive stats. For instance: if I am a magicka build, I can increase by offense and defense by stacking mana and spell dmg.
The amount of mitigation provided by armor is a joke in comparison -- increasing armor raw power would also directly increase the power of health.11 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭Perhaps there is another angle as well to look at the new armor sets since IC.
Most new sets do NOT really contribute to a tanky solo build that wants to do challenging content, like pledges.
Many new sets do shine in group buffs.
Edited by hrothbern on February 18, 2016 1:47PM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU2 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FireCowCommando wrote: »Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!
Oh really? It is never the dumb arse DPS player fault for oh IDK charging into the mob first leaving every one else behind including the tank before they can start taunting ?
Oh what am I saying of course not the DPS player can never do anything wrong cause their the "perfect role".2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »FireCowCommando wrote: »Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!
Oh really? It is never the dumb arse DPS player fault for oh IDK charging into the mob first leaving every one else behind including the tank before they can start taunting ?
Oh what am I saying of course not the DPS player can never do anything wrong cause their the "perfect role".
His comment was tongue-in-cheek.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual7 -
Hechicera✭✭✭As a healer you get Twilight Remedy to boost the DPS of your group (believe it or not that's one of the healers jobs) in addition to Spell Power Cure. Tanks get a 4% damage reduction against bosses in a 3-piece set. That in itself is viable and the Lunar 5-piece isn't too bad either. For PvP tanks they get Fasalla's Guile. I understand where you're coming from...power creep is bad, but it's hardly fair to say tanks and healers get nothing.
@RinaldoGandolphi some good points.
And for the poster I quoted. You realize you are reinforcing OP's point? Healer's job isn't to .. umm heal? but to buff specifically dps?
Some games have had pure healers. Some buffing healers. Some buffing dpsers. Sometimes buff classes, in the past, in other games, who were or were not healers were expected to buff many other things. Like enchanters in EQ1 that buffed regen and couldn't heal for one example.
Not only are healers and tanks behind the gear power curve, but for a game with the lineage of Elder Scrolls (granted single player) heritage, it is narrowing viable build diversity further and further in opposition to statements in the last dev twitch talk. Of course, that issue is not just gear but no softcaps. Because without softcaps, the only strong differentiation is dps.6 -
TheDarkShadow✭✭✭✭✭
✭When I see the healing debuff set, I think: "Well, maybe I'd try some kind of tank/cc build, with lesser dps but better resource management and instead of trying to kill my enemy, I'll debuff/cc them and try to outlive them."
But when I see the alchemist set, I think: "Well, if the enemy gonna debuff my heal to Oblivion, then what is the point of trying to heal up anymore? I'll YOLO, all into brust. If it's not them, then it's me."
I believe a lots of people are also torn between these 2 options. It also depend on class. Mag Sorc for example, might lean to YOLO build, since they rely on shields rather than heal. We'll see when live come up, which kind of build will rule Cyrodiil.Edited by TheDarkShadow on February 18, 2016 4:50PM1 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you think there's a ton of Power Creeps in PVP now, just wait till they all reroll the Argonian one that Deltia posted a video about. Argonians will be the new IC and PVP gankers.... If you think people are crying about their passives now, just wait till everyone is one shotted by them in the CP Campaigns. Instead of people crying they need to buff the Argonian passives, it will all be nerf posts about their Potion passive is OP with the new set.NA Server - Kildair1 -
Ra'Shtar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a healer and a masochist ( my ex knows this very well ) so i will keep on healing while bleeding tears.Some of my favorite screenshots
My opinions and posts are mostly on a PvE setting.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Robes of Transmutation is probably the best grpset for pvp ever.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Sir_Xalvador✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »FireCowCommando wrote: »Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!
Oh really? It is never the dumb arse DPS player fault for oh IDK charging into the mob first leaving every one else behind including the tank before they can start taunting ?
Oh what am I saying of course not the DPS player can never do anything wrong cause their the "perfect role".
I agree, I was tanking AA and a DPS ran in on boss first then said where is the tank...Its your fault I just died and where was the healer you all suck...Needless to say I told him he should have waited on the tank and for everyone else to get there instead of him running in first we are not on a speed run...So my question if there are so many good DPS players and you have all this killer gear and your so OP why do you always call on a tank and healer to help????5 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a healer you get Twilight Remedy to boost the DPS of your group (believe it or not that's one of the healers jobs) in addition to Spell Power Cure. Tanks get a 4% damage reduction against bosses in a 3-piece set. That in itself is viable and the Lunar 5-piece isn't too bad either. For PvP tanks they get Fasalla's Guile. I understand where you're coming from...power creep is bad, but it's hardly fair to say tanks and healers get nothing.
@RinaldoGandolphi some good points.
And for the poster I quoted. You realize you are reinforcing OP's point? Healer's job isn't to .. umm heal? but to buff specifically dps?
Some games have had pure healers. Some buffing healers. Some buffing dpsers. Sometimes buff classes, in the past, in other games, who were or were not healers were expected to buff many other things. Like enchanters in EQ1 that buffed regen and couldn't heal for one example.
Not only are healers and tanks behind the gear power curve, but for a game with the lineage of Elder Scrolls (granted single player) heritage, it is narrowing viable build diversity further and further in opposition to statements in the last dev twitch talk. Of course, that issue is not just gear but no softcaps. Because without softcaps, the only strong differentiation is dps.
In this game you need few heals to actually keep your team alive. You are an extremely selfish healer if all you do is heal. And this is where a lot of people go wrong. Just because it's named a healer, doesn't mean you only heal. It's secondary. If the healer buffs group DPS, does the Trial not get done faster leading to a better score?
We don't have "buff classes". Each class has a single passive that is able to benefit their group, and all of the favorable group buffs are found in sets. A healer doesn't need min/maxed sets and neither does a tank...so why should the healer and the tank NOT run sets for the group's benefit?
Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simple.
Because due to this stupid non-caps/dmg-meta era the only way to make a set appeal to anyone is by adding damage to it. Look at any set they have release which doesn't have a +damage bonus and how often it's used.
Until they fix the fact that stacking damage is the only viable build for all DPS/Healing classes then they need to release these sets to create demand for the new content.
Additionally because they can't increase the VR levels without breaking more promises then they can't just refuse to update gear to make it obsolete and force us into getting the new content (like was done with IC/Wrothgar)Edited by Turelus on February 19, 2016 1:41PM@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭if group content requires 1 healer 1 tank and 2 dps then they should introduce sets at that same ratio in my opinion.
and on average they kind of do, except healers get really poor showing in this game, I know healer can run a dps set with some regen and thats healing. personally i think that is very dissapointing. if you are not excited about DLC content and its rewards why pay for or play it?
The monster helm is a crap set. The sets that give regen only exist as crafted sets. and other than spell power cure there hasnt been much of worth since healer/dragonstar
Orsinium for example:
DPS
winter born - nice set fairly specialist nice in group play
elemental succession - nice set for the most part
the hunt - despite being stam sorc pet build (ok) nice 2/3/4 bonuses
parabellum - very specific application
briarheart - a very nice set especially good on certain stam characters (looking at you DW stam sorc)
Tank
permafrost - good for recovery tank
pariah - good in general for a tank
glory - pretty sub par tank set imo but meh
healer
trinimac - very specialised healer set, maybe okay for a dk healer.
TL;DRI agree with OP they really need to expand set option for other roles. but i dont think its leading to imbalance. sets are strong but if you really crunch the numbers i bet they are only marginally stronger if that or very situational.PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7201 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »FireCowCommando wrote: »Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!
Oh really? It is never the dumb arse DPS player fault for oh IDK charging into the mob first leaving every one else behind including the tank before they can start taunting ?
Oh what am I saying of course not the DPS player can never do anything wrong cause their the "perfect role".
"...get plenty", "...both of their faults!" What they "get" is the blame.
See facetious.
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Hechicera✭✭✭
In this game you need few heals to actually keep your team alive. You are an extremely selfish healer if all you do is heal. And this is where a lot of people go wrong. Just because it's named a healer, doesn't mean you only heal. It's secondary. If the healer buffs group DPS, does the Trial not get done faster leading to a better score?
We don't have "buff classes". Each class has a single passive that is able to benefit their group, and all of the favorable group buffs are found in sets. A healer doesn't need min/maxed sets and neither does a tank...so why should the healer and the tank NOT run sets for the group's benefit?
Again, you think you are arguing but are reinforcing the point. To put paraphrase your post in terms of usefulness (because in the how the game works now the behavior you advocate is beneficial):
- healing is of low enough design priority that healing better has no value
- tanking is of low enough design priority that tanking better has no value
- dps still shortens trial runs therefore has value
- and I will add, for a group struggling with mechanics adding dps allows then to have to manage mechanics less either by killing prior to some, or seeing fewer repetitions of the problem mechanic in a fight
So enhancing DPS falls on healer? Now there I would argue it falls on group under current scenario, but fully grant a healer that isn't helping the dps is less optimal since healing alone has such low value. Tanking also has lower value, mostly for spot CC, and other CC does fall on group. Mainly due to aggro design here.
The OPs point was devs prioritizing DPS on sets. You show where this leads (in combination with current design decisions in this MMO) .. everybody DPS! Job #1! And if you do buff, buff DPS! And you're not wrong.
The other point OP makes is that DPS being the only balance point leads to buff/nerf cycles, especially in PvP. I'll add it also leads to significantly less strategic depth in combat. Easy to learn, boring once you do. This fits with GW2 combat at release, action-ish, and dps being the big thing with no roles. ESO seems to be headed back that way just as GW2 has added roles to classes in its new xpac! Meanwhile FFXIV was facing a minor backlash from most of endgame raids, while they have roles and had some mechanics, but was mostly just massive dps checks, and hence boring.4 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak9 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.
Even worse, classes that are design intended for "stand your ground tank" roles are severely over shadowded by classes with better DPS, regen and mobility options. Even those DPS classes have better dmg mitigation skills further reducing the need for dedicated tank/healer builds.
Having minimal healer/tank gear further widens the build diversity gap this game was originally set out to provide. The CP regen inflammation doesn't help either.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
puffy99✭✭✭Great points.
I think this all gets back to the fact no one in top mgt/game planning seems to understand balance and WHAT roles they want the characters to play with any sense of cohesiveness.
They might as well eliminate Templars and to some extent DK's and create other classes if they only want DPS players roaming around.
If they can't eliminate them then they should create two new classes to make up for their inability to make proper balance changes.
As mentioned before except for a few Dungeons you really don't need a Templar/Healer or a Tank in the current state of the game.
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Polysemy✭✭✭Alot of the sets you are linking are NOT DPS sets infact there is no dps sets other then Moondancer + Alkosh which may or may not be BIS (personally i dont think it will be put perhaps coupled with julianos/hundings/TBS it can be)
As for tanks? Well lets review...
Tanks this patch got Ebon Armory, The New Trial Set, and Tava's Favor
Ebon Armory - Great Set all around however the range on this need to be fixed it need to affect your group (like the tooltip). Yes it is a rehash but a rehash of a good set
Tava's Favor - Are you kidding me? this is BIS, hands down if you do a little math the potential for this set is insane with proper build and skill usage you can get out 8-9 ultimate per second. Ultimates on average cost 250 so that an ult every 30s or so and thats not even on a NB!
The Trail One - I mean, its decent? It is Id say its a tier lower then Ebon but Ebon (assuming the range is group and not 12m) provides more group benefit
And ill go over healers too for the sake of... well I just want to.
Twilights Remedy - Awesome set. Coupled with SPC *** amazing.
Worm Cult - Awesome set
. Coupled with SPC FRICKING AMAZING.
Healers really took the cake this patch, tanks got a seriouslly good set and DPS might have got something, that remains to be seen...
Alchemist, Vicious Death, Warrior's Fury (crap).... these are all pvp sets so when you call these "DPS" sets, I dont understand
Maybe your a group PVPr and thats why you call them DPS sets... if thats the case, ill say this. Fasalla's Guille is fricking insane for pvpGrade A ***0 -
FireCowCommando wrote: »Tanks and healers get plenty in this game, every time players die its always at least one if not both of their faults!
said as they stand in red circles complaining about other players1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most healers i know dps in between heals,dungeons are super easy now.apparently you don't need healers anyways,just sorcs. I agree the zos machine is just shuffling the pile around though.0 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.
I agree with every thing except vet maelstrom arena. Why do you need a healer or a tank for vet maelstrom? Healer and tanks are group roles. If your using a tank build for vet maelstrom who are you going to tank for? It does not make since for role that is needed for groups to work in a solo arena. Now you can be built like one of the roles but if your doing that content you cannot be doing your role since you have to kill. You do not even need high DPS. All you need is some average damage and some sustainment to keep you alive via healing, shields,movement speed, and defense buffs. Your basically all roles into one. You have heal yourself, either avoid or take the damge and do damage. I have friends that made a tankish build with some decent dps get though vet maelstrom.0 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.
Even worse, classes that are design intended for "stand your ground tank" roles are severely over shadowded by classes with better DPS, regen and mobility options. Even those DPS classes have better dmg mitigation skills further reducing the need for dedicated tank/healer builds.
Having minimal healer/tank gear further widens the build diversity gap this game was originally set out to provide. The CP regen inflammation doesn't help either.
Agreed and this isn't just about itemization with higher and higher burst(even if it plays a huge part to). It's also CP, mechanics and other changes gameplay that keeps buffing raw dps mash, while other playstyle becomes weaker and weaker.
Meanwhile ZoS/developers claims they want to see combat with more duration and more thoughtful fights in PvP. They apparently want to get away from groups dying in a couple of seconds. Sounds good. But than development wise they keep doing the complete opposite every major patch, by buffing dps more and more. It's really confusing
Simultaneously they also keep nerfing player defences each patch, while ofc buffing dps and burst. You think they be done after 1.7 block, Bolt Escape and dodge penalties as well as ruining all defensive skills scaling of health, but they just keep going at it still lol.
Even in this patch they managed to raise dps&burst (especially for magicka builds) while yet again nerfing or adding more mechanics nerfing heals, shields, NB cloak&stealth taking a hit and than nerfing overall mobility.
Maybe some of these nerfs are/where needed idk, that's another topic. I just dont understand why the game keeps going in this direction, when developers claim they want more duration based and meaningful combat.1 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.
I agree with every thing except vet maelstrom arena. Why do you need a healer or a tank for vet maelstrom? Healer and tanks are group roles. If your using a tank build for vet maelstrom who are you going to tank for? It does not make since for role that is needed for groups to work in a solo arena. Now you can be built like one of the roles but if your doing that content you cannot be doing your role since you have to kill. You do not even need high DPS. All you need is some average damage and some sustainment to keep you alive via healing, shields,movement speed, and defense buffs. Your basically all roles into one. You have heal yourself, either avoid or take the damge and do damage. I have friends that made a tankish build with some decent dps get though vet maelstrom.
@Darkonflare15 ,
you say:
"I agree with every thing except vet maelstrom arena. Why do you need a healer or a tank for vet maelstrom? Healer and tanks are group roles. If your using a tank build for vet maelstrom who are you going to tank for? It does not make since for role that is needed for groups to work in a solo arena".
I agree as such,
But if your main character is a tank, you either have to rebuild your tank into a more DPS build, get you some other gear, and/or roll a new character.
....and not everybody has the time to do that !!!
and yes, you can do already some by shifting Health attributes to Mag/Stam attributes for 3k gold.
What I miss here from ZOS is some empathy for players like this....
some love and attention for players that have just a tank as main character....
Love and attention resulting in the effort for some creativity to come with a helping hand.
Just as an example for such a creative solution:
Why not add to the Taunt that you get 20% les DPS for 20% flat damage mitigation.
That would enable a tank to evolve into a build that does vanilla more DPS...
and when he really has to tank, he can taunt to get in heavy duty mode.
and for sure... there will be many more solutions that ZOS can figure out....
if they care and have empathy for tank builds"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU3 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Yup
To add to @Hechicera comments whihc i may add he hit the nail on the head.
Look at any toon in this game that is VR16 with 250 Champion Points and using one of the common "DPS" sets....all the dungeons except Vet Imperial City Prison and Vet Whitegold Tower are a faceroll.
Try fighting Praxin in Vet Spindleclutch prior to the CS without a solid healer and tank and you would get smashed.
Try finishing Vet City of Ash back in the days before the CS
those dungeons were designed around each class role having an equal value of importance in order to complete them.
Today though, since they never went back and properly scaled and updated them, the CS and the power/gear creep allows folks to get so much DPS they simply bypass the mechanics or lessen the mechanics significantly.
Even Vet Maelstrom Arena, good luck completing it with a Tank or a primary healer and off dps toon. It specifically favors high DPS builds, ranged more then anything, but even high dps melee builds like Templar Sweeps have a far easier time.
The fact Vet MSA is a solo instance that is clearly designed and favors DPS based characters is troubling. Do we really want the future of this game to be DPS, DPS, DPS and nothing else? something has to give.
Tanks and even healers are in low demand in Stormhaven nowadays but DPS are everywhere.
I agree with every thing except vet maelstrom arena. Why do you need a healer or a tank for vet maelstrom? Healer and tanks are group roles. If your using a tank build for vet maelstrom who are you going to tank for? It does not make since for role that is needed for groups to work in a solo arena. Now you can be built like one of the roles but if your doing that content you cannot be doing your role since you have to kill. You do not even need high DPS. All you need is some average damage and some sustainment to keep you alive via healing, shields,movement speed, and defense buffs. Your basically all roles into one. You have heal yourself, either avoid or take the damge and do damage. I have friends that made a tankish build with some decent dps get though vet maelstrom.
@Darkonflare15 ,
you say:
"I agree with every thing except vet maelstrom arena. Why do you need a healer or a tank for vet maelstrom? Healer and tanks are group roles. If your using a tank build for vet maelstrom who are you going to tank for? It does not make since for role that is needed for groups to work in a solo arena".
I agree as such,
But if your main character is a tank, you either have to rebuild your tank into a more DPS build, get you some other gear, and/or roll a new character.
....and not everybody has the time to do that !!!
and yes, you can do already some by shifting Health attributes to Mag/Stam attributes for 3k gold.
What I miss here from ZOS is some empathy for players like this....
some love and attention for players that have just a tank as main character....
Love and attention resulting in the effort for some creativity to come with a helping hand.
Just as an example for such a creative solution:
Why not add to the Taunt that you get 20% les DPS for 20% flat damage mitigation.
That would enable a tank to evolve into a build that does vanilla more DPS...
and when he really has to tank, he can taunt to get in heavy duty mode.
and for sure... there will be many more solutions that ZOS can figure out....
if they care and have empathy for tank builds
Sry...but in vMSA you have to KILL things...why do expect to get through as a tank (=taking damage) or healer (=healing allies)...that doesn't make sense at all. people can also reach around 90% damage reduction with tank builds (without corrosive armor)...98% (or even 110%
) would be a bit too much, isn't it??
It all depends on your Tank build. On my tank i can easily switch between tank and DPS by changing gear, Skills and bufffood. This doesn't cost anything when you have the gear and you have more than enough skillpoints available ingame...Noobplar0
