I think it's only still reflectable because devs haven't gotten around to it yet.

Probably because it is spammable, regardless that it takes a couple hundred ultimate to get into WW form.

You say yourself that the form can be maintained for quite a long while after building up the ultimate, so it's not really equitable to Meteor which is a one shot deal every 30 seconds (more or less).

Frankly I think Meteor should be reflectable. Why would you ever remove counter play in a game?

I think its reflectable because once in WW you are capable of continuous 11k+ howls that can crit much higher. With it being reflectable it creates a necessary for the WW player to be smart about when to time a fear and blast away on the Howls.

Personally being reflactable has never bothered me after the first few times getting used to timing it.

Telel wrote: »

It's a melee ranged knockdown

This statement is wrong and that's the whole problem. Only skills with a maximum range of 8m or less (and charges) are considered melee. Piercing howl has 10m range and therefore is by definition a ranged physical projectile, similar to magnum shot.

Easiest fix would probably be to reduce the range to 8m.

hammayolettuce wrote: »

I think its reflectable because once in WW you are capable of continuous 11k+ howls that can crit much higher. With it being reflectable it creates a necessary for the WW player to be smart about when to time a fear and blast away on the Howls.

Personally being reflactable has never bothered me after the first few times getting used to timing it.

This is the same as Telel's own thinking. However as Meteor is no longer on the list of projectiles, and the ability to pin-pong others is gone they felt it a good time to seek insight onto this one ability's continue weakness.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

It's a melee ranged knockdown

This statement is wrong and that's the whole problem. Only skills with a maximum range of 8m or less (and charges) are considered melee. Piercing howl has 10m range and therefore is by definition a ranged physical projectile, similar to magnum shot.

Easiest fix would probably be to reduce the range to 8m.

This one feels it wise to point out that Crit Rush, Teleport strike, and Shield charge are all melee attacks with 20 meter ranges. Of those one is also spammable with a built in snare, and can stun from stealth. Another causes knockdowns, and the third can be easily cancelled to permit quick wrecking blow/HA/other combos.

Though your use of magnum shot as an example works so khajiit concedes a point for your argument.

Alucardo wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Piercing howl shouldn't be reflectance. It's not a projectile. I mean is not like other similar abilities like steel tornado is reflectable.

How is a 12-13k stomp with a knock down from a furry tank that causes bleed damage on heavy hitting light attacks even remotely comparable to a nerfed steel tornado?

Telel agrees comparing Steel Tornado to Piercing Howl is in fact not a good idea.

Piercing Howl. Is a 10 meter range knock down requiring more stamina per use than wrecking blow for comparable damage when not comboed with other skills. The bonus damage is also limited to one morph. It does not cause a bleed on its own. Further it requires slotting the game's most expensive ultimate, and expending over 20 skill points in order to make full use of.

It is reflectable

Steel Tornado is an 18 meter (on test) diameter 360 degree AOE requiring very little aiming or skill to employ. It costs less, is more readily available, does not require an ultimate. Once skill points are employed it gains an execute function for even more damage. Further if you wish to add the other abilities of the skill line..it TOO can cause bleeds on both Heavy and light, can increase its crit, piercing, or raw damage, and can gain access to buffs, snares, 20+ meter ranged attacks, more bleeds, self-heals, etc, etc.

It is not reflectable.

Definitely not two skills you can really compare in an attempt see if they're equal.

Which is probably why this one chose to keep their own examples limited to those which cause knockdowns on a single target just as Piercing howl does.

Cathexis wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Piercing howl shouldn't be reflectance. It's not a projectile. I mean is not like other similar abilities like steel tornado is reflectable.

How is a 12-13k stomp with a knock down from a furry tank that causes bleed damage on heavy hitting light attacks even remotely comparable to a nerfed steel tornado?

They are both non projectiles, thought I made that pretty clear.

... and the are both stamina based abilities (my understanding is that d stance can reflect it even though it is not a spell, however I am open to being wrong about that)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for balancing mechanics, but you can't at the same time cherry pick which mechanics should be standardized and which shouldn't. If it's not a projectile, it's not reflectable; that's the current game standard. At the very least it needs to be classed in the tooltip as a projectile and not be reflectable by dstance to remain the same as is.

That's wrong, howl is a projectile, because it fits the definiton if a projectile in this game. It is a single target skill, has a maximum range of more than 8m and is not a charge. I'm not saying this is how it should be, just describing how game mechanics work.
I'm not even sure if this is intended, maybe it was just a mistake. Howl was added to the game later on, so it could be possible that the designer didn't know about the build in "8m rule" and thought he would do wws a favour when increasing their attack range compared to other melee users.

As stated before, reducing the range to 8m would be an easy fix. Adding it as exceptional melee attack could work as well, but will cause inconsistance and is vulnerable to bugs.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Piercing howl shouldn't be reflectance. It's not a projectile. I mean is not like other similar abilities like steel tornado is reflectable.

How is a 12-13k stomp with a knock down from a furry tank that causes bleed damage on heavy hitting light attacks even remotely comparable to a nerfed steel tornado?

They are both non projectiles, thought I made that pretty clear.

... and the are both stamina based abilities (my understanding is that d stance can reflect it even though it is not a spell, however I am open to being wrong about that)

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for balancing mechanics, but you can't at the same time cherry pick which mechanics should be standardized and which shouldn't. If it's not a projectile, it's not reflectable; that's the current game standard. At the very least it needs to be classed in the tooltip as a projectile and not be reflectable by dstance to remain the same as is.

That's wrong, howl is a projectile, because it fits the definiton if a projectile in this game. It is a single target skill, has a maximum range of more than 8m and is not a charge. I'm not saying this is how it should be, just describing how game mechanics work.
I'm not even sure if this is intended, maybe it was just a mistake. Howl was added to the game later on, so it could be possible that the designer didn't know about the build in "8m rule" and thought he would do wws a favour when increasing their attack range compared to other melee users.

As stated before, reducing the range to 8m would be an easy fix. Adding it as exceptional melee attack could work as well, but will cause inconsistance and is vulnerable to bugs.

I could be wrong but i thought it was an area ability that can hit multiple targets in an 8m radius in front of the opponent. There are lots of abilities like that in the game that cant be reflected - arrow spray..encase..cleave.. not to mention it has no real projectile animation either. I know I could be completely wrong on that, i havent been playing almost at all really lately either so i might not be remembering properly.

Keep it as it is... I like the challenge of eating the wings of a flappy flaper.

It's instant-cast with CC and good damage, that might be why. I never played with WW skills beyond getting the achievements, so I can't say where I think the balance point should be, but if we were to compare it to Wrecking Blow then that might be the difference.