How About an AP Reset?

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

So Wrobel in the last ESO live said they didn't offer v16 vendor gear because people have millions of AP saved and they'd be able to buy it all straight away. He went on to suggest something about AP caps. Instead of that silliness, how about on the launch of every major update, or when new gear sets come out, everyone's AP is reset to 0.

Stay calm and read on.

They'll be plenty of warning so you can stock up on seige, repair kits, soul gems, whatever. Most importantly, they can also supply us with a AP to gold, AP to TV stones, (or whatever future currency) conversion rate so the earned AP doesn't go to waste. Also, as suggested elsewhere, make AP bankable so those that pvp on different characters can pool the AP together to buy stuff.

Then we can have the latest gear from the vendors.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

So I should be allowed to bank 100+ millions of gold to buy all new gear after every patch, but I'm not allowed to keep my ap to buy some new gear with it? Great idea.

Jules · February 2016

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign beginning of every major update.

This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Xeven · February 2016

Alucardo · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

Jules wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign.

Some campaigns last literally 1 week. This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Err, didn't say campaign...

OdinForge · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign.

Some campaigns last literally 1 week. This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Err, didn't say campaign...

Yeah, not sure where the backlash is coming from.

You can stock AP between every major content update, but if resetting AP at the start of a new major content update can let us get AP bags I'm in, an AP cap is infinitely worse.

Warraxx · February 2016

this is Socialism... It's un-American! rejected.

Jules · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign.

Some campaigns last literally 1 week. This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Err, didn't say campaign...

Apologies, I read that wrong. Though even to reset AP to 0 every content update is still incredibly discouraging to people who earn their AP (ie: everyone in Cyrodiil.)

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign.

Some campaigns last literally 1 week. This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Err, didn't say campaign...

Yeah, not sure where the backlash is coming from.

You can stock AP between every major content update, but if resetting AP at the start of a new major content update can let us get AP bags I'm in, AP cap is stupid.

Yeah there's a lot of frothing at the mouth and not a lot of reading.

The other option is hoard millions of worthless AP, or AP caps. Pick your poison.

Brrrofski · February 2016

No.

If you believe that's the reason they don't scale sets, you're a fool.

It's to sell DLC. Why would people chase new gear if the existing stuff is the best gear?

I've said it before... They scaled arch mage except the necklace. So you have to use willpower. So for an increased chance, you need to buy IC. You give them money

That's the reason. Simple as.

So forget about the AP cap. It's irrelevant.

Ghost-Shot · February 2016

No, they just need to incentivize us to spend our AP rather than horde everything, unfortunately for the first few rounds of updates people will be able to buy everything right away but that will settle down eventually. As long as the keep updating AP vendors by making the gear they sell and bags max level and add other cool things like pvp reward mounts you can buy or maybe some costumes then people will spend their AP. Of course some will always horde AP but the solution is very simple, we just need things worth spending AP on.

Turelus · February 2016

I still don't understand the need for any changes to AP.

The players who have millions of AP got that AP by investing time into the game. They're now told because of playing the game and content they enjoy they're not allowed to have rewards for that because it might be unfair on new players entering PvP (at leas that's my understanding of the argument).

The reason players have millions of AP is because there is nothing to buy with it, so they just acquire more AP and the issue gets worse. AP used to be cashed out on boxes/vendor items which would then be sold via guild stores or direct trades for gold which could be used to buy consumables (potions/food) for PvP.

The second argument I have heard from ZOS is that PvP players could buy all the new seasons gear and then have nothing to work towards. Again I feel this is an illogical argument.

The part of the PvP players enjoy most is PvP. Let's state that one more time in big letters THE PART OF THE PvP PLAYERS ENJOY MOST IS PvP.

I have never in my years of MMO gaming heard a PvP player say "Man I am so happy I have new gear to work towards to be able to compete at the same level again" most groan and sigh every new gear season at repeating the same tiresome process of grinding for gear before enjoying the PvP content again.

If the thought process behind this one is the gear chase keeps people playing I would say that for a PvP player that's not required, as again the statement above. For a PvP player the content of PvP'ing is what they enjoy, not the work towards being able to play that content.

Cyrodiil is a great end game PvP environment because it doesn't need updates (additional content wise) because it's a constant sandbox style PvP environment. Every night is a different fight and tactics/meta's change with each new balance pass. The game stays fresh due to changes other than additional content.

So in closing, if someone has stayed with ESO for the last year and a half and amassed millions of AP, why are you now spitting on them by saying "because you were here and loyal, you can't have things you worked/played/stayed for".

@Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Lore_lai · February 2016

Ooooooor - instead of thinking about how to cap AP (W T actual F...) or wipe AP, think about how to make that AP worthwhile?..

If there is a surplus of currency, why must the first thought be how to punish the people who have worked for it, instead of creating a better thriving market for said currency?

Zyle · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

So Wrobel in the last ESO live said they didn't offer v16 vendor gear because people have millions of AP saved and they'd be able to buy it all straight away. He went on to suggest something about AP caps. Instead of that silliness, how about on the launch of every major update, or when new gear sets come out, everyone's AP is reset to 0.

Stay calm and read on.

They'll be plenty of warning so you can stock up on seige, repair kits, soul gems, whatever. Most importantly, they can also supply us with a AP to gold, AP to TV stones, (or whatever future currency) conversion rate so the earned AP doesn't go to waste. Also, as suggested elsewhere, make AP bankable so those that pvp on different characters can pool the AP together to buy stuff.

Then we can have the latest gear from the vendors.

The whatever part is the problem. Give us something meaningful to spend AP on, don't take it away. I don't get why this is so hard to get: Wrobel not scaling bags is why we have so much AP, why are we not entitled to what we earned in PvP?

Suggesting this is like me suggesting I wipe your gold every DLC because people have too much saved up.....doesn't make a lot of sense does it?

Turelus · February 2016

Lore_lai wrote: »

Ooooooor - instead of thinking about how to cap AP (W T actual F...) or wipe AP, think about how to make that AP worthwhile?..

If there is a surplus of currency, why must the first thought be how to punish the people who have worked for it, instead of creating a better thriving market for said currency?

Spend AP to speed up keep upgrades.
Spend AP to add addition (beyond the standard upgrades) densenesses to keeps.
Spend AP to activate a transit link which is offline for a short period of time.
Spend AP instead of gold to repair gear damage.
Spend AP instead of gold to quick travel.
Spend AP to hire Cyrodiil exclusive guild merchants.
Spend AP on fast travel map portals (costs a lot).
Spend AP on literally anything rather than capping/removing/making it worthless.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · February 2016

This is such a dumb idea, I can't believe similar things are brought up at all.

Especially in MMOs, people that play for longer amounts of time typically get new stuff faster. It doesn't matter if it's because they have AP in the 10s of millions, or because they have millions of gold and buy BoE stuff, or because they simply have more time to run dungeons, are more experienced, at max level, or WHATEVER OTHER REASON YOU CAN THINK OF.

Just add v16 gear at the vendors already, BoE of course. Everyone can get it this way. PvE guys don't have to enter Cyrodiil, and PvP players have a way to make their AP to gold and buy potions/tempers/crafted gear. Everyone is happy.

Alucardo · February 2016

There's a good reason why I can't hold onto to more than 5k Tel Var Stones, yet my AP goes through the roof. What am I going to spend AP on?
IC was thought out pretty well. Just look at the gear merchants - it's all scaled to your level. Someone wants a set, I'll buy it, they give me gold, they get the set. They want mats, I'll buy the mats, get gold, they get the mats.

Then you look at the sets in Cyrodiil. It's a freaking mess. Some parts are in chance boxes, some can be bought outright but in different levels, and none of them are VR16. The merchants in Cyrodiil are in shambles.
The only thing to spend your AP on is siege equipment and wall repair kits. I don't even bother with that any more because Cyro is laggy as hell so I spend all my time in IC.

tl;dr; GIVE US SOMETHING WORTH BUYING FOR AP, AND MAYBE WE WON'T HAVE AN EXCESS OF IT. Update the sets from vendors to VR16, add new sets and jewellery sets so agility/willpower isn't the only decent ones, for example.

blabafat · February 2016

Why are we saving up AP?

There is nothing to spend it on.

Why is there nothing to spend it on?

ZoS didn't bump up the bags to VR16 when the cap was raised to VR16.

So what is the cause of us saving our AP?

ZoS. And now they are concerned about PvP players having too much AP.

Smh

Glory · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Absolutely not. It's nonsensical. You don't:

1) Increase AP smaller groups earn
2) Double the value of everyone in Cyrodiil's AP, thus also doubling all keep off/def ticks
3) Reduce the AP required to achieve Assault/Support line 10

and then...

4) Wipe everyone's AP to 0 at the end of the campaign.

Some campaigns last literally 1 week. This would leave people feeling like AP is worthless. Because it virtually would be. Also those saving for Monster sets on a particular week at the vendor would get screwed.

Err, didn't say campaign...

Yeah, not sure where the backlash is coming from.

You can stock AP between every major content update, but if resetting AP at the start of a new major content update can let us get AP bags I'm in, AP cap is stupid.

Yeah there's a lot of frothing at the mouth and not a lot of reading.

The other option is hoard millions of worthless AP, or AP caps. Pick your poison.

I pick we are given something actually worthwhile to spend our AP on (not motifs that I could care less about).

Sallington · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

Zyle · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

You're not understanding the situation it seems. It's only worthless AP because Wrobel made it worthless. Why should the players have to suffer because he refuses to fix what he broke? The simple solution would be to scale the bags and let PvPers spend the AP they would have spent on bags but they couldn't because they weren't scaled.

You have obviously acknowledged the problem is that we don't have anything worthwhile to spend our AP on, so in my mind the only reason why you're suggesting everyone gets an AP wipe is because you have none. Otherwise you'd just be calling for them to scale bags like everyone else.

You create a thread asking for feedback about an idea then expect feedback.

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

You're not understanding the situation it seems. It's only worthless AP because Wrobel made it worthless. Why should the players have to suffer because he refuses to fix what he broke? The simple solution would be to scale the bags and let PvPers spend the AP they would have spent on bags but they couldn't because they weren't scaled.

You have obviously acknowledged the problem is that we don't have anything worthwhile to spend our AP on, so in my mind the only reason why you're suggesting everyone gets an AP wipe is because you have none. Otherwise you'd just be calling for them to scale bags like everyone else.

You create a thread asking for feedback about an idea then expect feedback.

And he's not going to do that. He isn't going to allow you to buy all the v16 gear right away with saved up AP. He's talking about AP caps to prevent this very thing, so you're living in the past.

As for AP, I have plenty, but I understand why developers of MMOs don't want everyone having top gear right away.

Kalebron · February 2016

They could limit the amount of pieces you buy over a specific amount of time. That sounds more reasonable.

Zyle · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

You're not understanding the situation it seems. It's only worthless AP because Wrobel made it worthless. Why should the players have to suffer because he refuses to fix what he broke? The simple solution would be to scale the bags and let PvPers spend the AP they would have spent on bags but they couldn't because they weren't scaled.

You have obviously acknowledged the problem is that we don't have anything worthwhile to spend our AP on, so in my mind the only reason why you're suggesting everyone gets an AP wipe is because you have none. Otherwise you'd just be calling for them to scale bags like everyone else.

You create a thread asking for feedback about an idea then expect feedback.

And he's not going to do that. He isn't going to allow you to buy all the v16 gear right away with saved up AP. He's talking about AP caps to prevent this very thing, so you're living in the past.

As for AP, I have plenty, but I understand why developers of MMOs don't want everyone having top gear right away.

Do you work for Wrobel? Do you know him? If not then I don't think you can say for 100% he's not going to. Half of that gear already existed prior and if they scaled it from the get-go then we wouldn't be having this problem.

AP caps to prevent this very thing? What are you even talking about? He's going to introduce AP caps to do what? Make AP even more worthless? How can you defend the actions of someone who is the cause of the entire problem and continues to make the problem worse?

Turelus · February 2016

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

You're not understanding the situation it seems. It's only worthless AP because Wrobel made it worthless. Why should the players have to suffer because he refuses to fix what he broke? The simple solution would be to scale the bags and let PvPers spend the AP they would have spent on bags but they couldn't because they weren't scaled.

You have obviously acknowledged the problem is that we don't have anything worthwhile to spend our AP on, so in my mind the only reason why you're suggesting everyone gets an AP wipe is because you have none. Otherwise you'd just be calling for them to scale bags like everyone else.

You create a thread asking for feedback about an idea then expect feedback.

And he's not going to do that. He isn't going to allow you to buy all the v16 gear right away with saved up AP. He's talking about AP caps to prevent this very thing, so you're living in the past.

As for AP, I have plenty, but I understand why developers of MMOs don't want everyone having top gear right away.

Why? So they spend hours chasing new gear in the new content? Because gear chasing is "content".

Rather than simply buying the gear and going back to what they actually enjoy. Yeah, we know why MMO's do this, because at some point someone said "Hey, if we make them chase the carrot forever, they'll always have something to do!" then this became a "standard" and every other MMO figured you have to do that to keep the game functional.

You know what part of the last two updates I enjoyed most? PvP'ing, running in groups, solo, small gang, ganking.
You know what I liked least? Grinding TV Stones, Daily dungeons and rewards for the worthy.

Seriously this debate could be ended in one single patch by doing the following.

Cyrodiil vendors sell all current sets at the level of the purchaser.
All bags are updated to contain all rewards of the worthy sets (players can spend AP at additional chances for set drops in the RNG nightmare bags).

PvP players cash in all their AP playing RNG games with bags to try and get the new thieves guild PvP sets. Let's consider how much AP it will cost for a full set of gear here with the RNG involved.

RNG 1: Get a set item
RNG 2: Get desired set item
RNG 3: Get desired set item with desired trait.

That's three levels of RNG you have to go through, that's A LOT of AP to "gear up"

Sallington · February 2016

Kalebron wrote: »

They could limit the amount of pieces you buy over a specific amount of time. That sounds more reasonable.

They shouldn't limit anything.

If they want to start punishing us for trudging through their broken mess of PvP, then I'm gone for good.

pmn100b16_ESO · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I know this is a great idea but I can't accept all the credit for it, they done this in LOTRO every dlc. You'd earn a currency for doing raids to buy new gear with, then when the next dlc came it all got converted to marks and medallions and you start over, for the exact same reason, so everyone didn't have top gear right away. I'm sure other MMOs have done similar things because no doubt they run into the same problems. So people saying dumb idea, you don't do this in MMOs, lol, thats where the idea came from. Its nothing new.

But it looks like the decision's unanimous, we'll carry on with worthless AP and no v16 gear from vendors. Its better that way after all.

You're not understanding the situation it seems. It's only worthless AP because Wrobel made it worthless. Why should the players have to suffer because he refuses to fix what he broke? The simple solution would be to scale the bags and let PvPers spend the AP they would have spent on bags but they couldn't because they weren't scaled.

You have obviously acknowledged the problem is that we don't have anything worthwhile to spend our AP on, so in my mind the only reason why you're suggesting everyone gets an AP wipe is because you have none. Otherwise you'd just be calling for them to scale bags like everyone else.

You create a thread asking for feedback about an idea then expect feedback.

And he's not going to do that. He isn't going to allow you to buy all the v16 gear right away with saved up AP. He's talking about AP caps to prevent this very thing, so you're living in the past.

As for AP, I have plenty, but I understand why developers of MMOs don't want everyone having top gear right away.

Why? So they spend hours chasing new gear in the new content? Because gear chasing is "content".

Rather than simply buying the gear and going back to what they actually enjoy. Yeah, we know why MMO's do this, because at some point someone said "Hey, if we make them chase the carrot forever, they'll always have something to do!" then this became a "standard" and every other MMO figured you have to do that to keep the game functional.

You know what part of the last two updates I enjoyed most? PvP'ing, running in groups, solo, small gang, ganking.
You know what I liked least? Grinding TV Stones, Daily dungeons and rewards for the worthy.

I'm the same, but I think we'd have to go back to being subscription based to be like that, back when it didn't require 130 mats for a single piece of armour. ESO is a carrot and stick MMO now sadly.

Turelus · February 2016

Continuing my rant (because I am so tired of this debate and want to hammer home the point to ZOS).

They control the prices of items they add/change. You want to make players "work" for their items, make the RNG bags cost 30,000 AP each.

15million AP would net you 500 boxes.
Then apply the above (repeated below) system.

30,000 AP VR16 RNG Bag.
RNG1: Chance to get a set item vs blue vendor trash loot.
RNG2: When a set item drops getting the one you wanted.
RNG3: When the set item you want drops getting one with the trait you wanted.

Getting perfect PvP sets via this method would cost absurd amount of AP, sure some players would get lucky and achieve that but you're still going to see everyone sink their AP to try it.

Additionally have the same boxes as Rewards for the Worthy but with a higher chance of a set item vs trash blues.
New players joining campaigns now have a chance to get the gear by playing and earning their AP, old players who have been dedicated/loyal to the game since launch have the same chance from rewards as well as the chance to gamble their AP on a headstart.

@Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler can you see any issues with the above? If you do, even if it's "this doesn't make people buy DLC and we need to encourage that" then say, so we can talk about this, sort this damn issue and get back to what we all actually enjoy... PvP!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 2016

Plenty of other games do honour / justice resets for a new season. If it was handled well with some actual content to back it up I'd be up for it sure. They could even set a low amount of gold for example 100k gold per 1m ap.
If it's just "v16 gear boxes" then nope lol