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Buff bows for PvE
khele23eb17_ESO
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What Id like to see is bows doing comparable damage to other ranged weapons (staves) in PvE. Correct me if Im wrong but currently bow seems to be one of the lowest (if not the lowest) dps weapon in game. I dont get it. Its such an iconic piece of equipment.
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 7:16AM P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.
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Stubie✭✭I enjoy the bow quit a bit and find its to be good ranged dps. With pumping champion points into physical dmg snipe hits like a truck.1 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I enjoy the bow quit a bit and find its to be good ranged dps. With pumping champion points into physical dmg snipe hits like a truck.
It is not good ranged dps. Snipe might hit hard but its slow and you dont benefit from weaving much using it... thus the dps is LOOOOOOW. The skill is a PvP tool. Works particularly well due to lag and people getting hit with 2-3 of them before their game client catches up with whats going on.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 8:16AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.6 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bows in general need a buff, snipe is fine, but the rest of the abilities need a serious working on. The skill line has absolutely no utility as well when compared to all other weapon lines.6 -
DRXHarbinger✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭L2weave. It does work just takes some practice. Bows work well with bombard and the volley morphs great aoe and dps. Bombard is pretty *** having no cool down, it's epic for WGT and Prison. or Camo hunting solo with focused aim / prismatic enchantment yields some good stoneage.PC Master Race
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8 Flawless Toons, all Classes.
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Dro-M'artha Destroyer (at last)
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Grand Overlord
Every Skyshard
Down With BOP!0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »L2weave. It does work just takes some practice. Bows work well with bombard and the volley morphs great aoe and dps. Bombard is pretty *** having no cool down, it's epic for WGT and Prison. or Camo hunting solo with focused aim / prismatic enchantment yields some good stoneage.
You can weave all you like, youre still at half the dps mag based builds can do.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 8:32AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.6 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭I agree, bow seems to be lagging behind a bit compared to other weapons in DPS. The only thing it has going for it is the range, and even that is not very much of an advantage considering how quickly even NPCs what to speak of players, can close in on you.4 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can't wait for the new marksman set in TG. The fifth piece has 5% stam cost reduction on all abilities, and causes bow abilities to hit 8% harder. It's nice they are giving bows a little love in this update.3 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Can't wait for the new marksman set in TG. The fifth piece has 5% stam cost reduction on all abilities, and causes bow abilities to hit 8% harder. It's nice they are giving bows a little love in this update.
8% is nothing when you consider how much the weapon lags behind others. Shoud be 30-40% not 8. Except snipe - leave it as is... its a nerf bait skill.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 9:35AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Can't wait for the new marksman set in TG. The fifth piece has 5% stam cost reduction on all abilities, and causes bow abilities to hit 8% harder. It's nice they are giving bows a little love in this update.
8% is nothing when you consider how much the weapon lags behind others. Shoud be 30-40% not 8. Except snipe - leave it as is... its a nerf bait skill.
Actually I just remembered that 8% is against players, so it'd only work in PVP. That restriction should be changed to enemies so it works in both PVE and PVP.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.Edited by Alucardo on February 18, 2016 10:51AM0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.Remember when snipe was even slower?
Yes. But it would have to be instant to compete with mag damage.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 10:58AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.3 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.2 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.
Dont think it counts as an execute. And again... the best bow builds atm are doing half the damage of magicka builds. 25% more damage from poison (which isnt all your damage btw.) will not fix it... especially since mag builds are getting buffs too.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
But it is a skill, it does not require alchemy, what is bad - I want a bow which enables me to put a specific poison with a specific effect on an enemy - this is different to using a skill.0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.
Dont think it counts as an execute. And again... the best bow builds atm are doing half the damage of magicka builds. 25% more damage from poison (which isnt all your damage btw.) will not fix it... especially since mag builds are getting buffs too.
Explain to me how bow build does only half the damage of magicka Builds, if there is only 1 mag build that uses Single target staff skill. (mag sorc)
Ich habe know no other good build that would uses Shock over their class spammable abilities
Or is this thread another mutation of magicka > stamina in pve thread?0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.
Dont think it counts as an execute. And again... the best bow builds atm are doing half the damage of magicka builds. 25% more damage from poison (which isnt all your damage btw.) will not fix it... especially since mag builds are getting buffs too.
Explain to me how bow build does only half the damage of magicka Builds, if there is only 1 mag build that uses Single target staff skill. (mag sorc)
Ich habe know no other good build that would uses Shock over their class spammable abilities
Or is this thread another mutation of magicka > stamina in pve thread?
In a way it is, yes. The issues are connected since staff users have both class damage skills and weapon damage skills to choose from (not to mention 5 lines of passives to support them) while bow users... not nearly as many options. Also, dont mag DKs use staves?Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 1:14PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.2 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭ITT: OP did not pick woodelf.
@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.
Dont think it counts as an execute. And again... the best bow builds atm are doing half the damage of magicka builds. 25% more damage from poison (which isnt all your damage btw.) will not fix it... especially since mag builds are getting buffs too.
Explain to me how bow build does only half the damage of magicka Builds, if there is only 1 mag build that uses Single target staff skill. (mag sorc)
Ich habe know no other good build that would uses Shock over their class spammable abilities
Or is this thread another mutation of magicka > stamina in pve thread?
In a way it is, yes. The issues are connected since staff users have both class damage skills and weapon damage skills to choose from while bow users... not nearly as many options. Also, dont mag DKs use staves?
They can use staff or dw but will only use Single target class abilities anyway. You get roughly the same dps but staffs are cheaper to craft
And speaking of mag>stam : i want to point out that my mag nb is still on the bottom of the dps classes with several stam classes better.
And to get the Best dps every mag class has to go malee Range no reason stam cant do the same 0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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And to get the Best dps every mag class has to go malee Range no reason stam cant do the same
Sure. Lets not fix absurd stuff, lets add more of it beacuse... spite.
'***, my car broke down.'
'I can give you a lift, while your car is at the garage.'
'Nah, I dont want to have my car repaired. I want to see yours broken too.'Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 12:36PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.2 -
Helluin✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »The bow would be an awesome and unique weapon again, if ZOS would go for proper poison usage on bows - this was what made the bow great in other TES games, and there is "slow" poison in the game already - it just would have to work on bows.
There's poison injection and acid spray (AoE poison and slows enemies) already. These will hit even harder in the next patch because poison will be joining Mighty in the CP tree.
Doubt it will double your dps.
No, it will increase it by 25% when using poison. Morag tong would cause that to be increased to 40%, or sheer venom applies a heavy poison dot when you attack an enemy with an execute ability. That'd be quite useful too. Not sure if poison injection constitutes as an execute - I mean it does do more damage to targets under a certain amount of health like one.
Dont think it counts as an execute. And again... the best bow builds atm are doing half the damage of magicka builds. 25% more damage from poison (which isnt all your damage btw.) will not fix it... especially since mag builds are getting buffs too.
Explain to me how bow build does only half the damage of magicka Builds, if there is only 1 mag build that uses Single target staff skill. (mag sorc)
Ich habe know no other good build that would uses Shock over their class spammable abilities
Or is this thread another mutation of magicka > stamina in pve thread?
Having fun and playing both stamina and magicka builds, I think that is an understandable request so not another thread of the kind you think.
For example, before 1.6, a NB archer with an hybrid build was able to use also Cripple as an additional DoT, Swallow Soul/Funnel Health and Impale (that it was using weapon crit by those times). The old Grim Focus was also better with light/medium attacks.
Probably it was not the best since you had to reach softcap in both Weapon and Spell Damage but it was a good and fun option.
As you can see the bow was helped by some class skills but with since 1.6, without softcaps and the requirement to stack stamina+weapon stats or magicka+spell damage stats, we have to go or full stamina or full magicka as damage dealers.
What is missing atm for bow is a skill with less damage than snipe but also with faster cast time or instant and a faster animation/travelling time.
If I recall well, Scatter Shot during beta was a different skill and it was helping in this way.
Changing Scatter Shot into skill with more range (channeled or instant) could be an option; one morph could keep the knock back, otherwise the knock back could simply work when a target is within X meters and not when more distant.
About Khajiit and Bosmer, I agree with you @Lysette , infact Bosmer should have something buffing ranged or bow dmg.
With the limited use of Stealthy, for example I would differentiate this passive racial skill between Bosmer and Khajiit:
- Bosmer's Stealthy >> Keeper of the Forest: actual Stealthy + 3% more damage with ranged attacks
- Khajiit's Stealthy >> Feline Grace: actual Stealthy + 3% dodge chance
The bonus damage from sneak can be reduced to 5-6% to be more balanced.Edited by Helluin on February 18, 2016 12:35PM"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."2 -
Kahen40k✭✭On paper, bow should be good on dps, and thats why many ppl got misslead, but in the end, i agree, its basically almost half of the dps than any other pve setup.
The main issue, in my opinion, is that it doesn't synergize well whith any class ability, and you pretty much left with ony bow ability on your bar, plus weaving is terrible and no real execute. Also, for make it work, you gonna need a very specific setup, which normally, is not optimal with other weapons and worse of all, you will need to be at max range to get the best damage, and that is not always possible (when it is, usually not in range for combat prayers etc). If that isn't enough, the snare from shoting is so bad that is easy to stay on melee range on complicate fight.
In conclusion, just go 2H or dual for way better results for pve damage, unless they speed up the animations to allow a proper weaving or drastically increase the damage (which will screw things up in pvp), they will always outperform the bow.
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Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭I miss being able to arc my arrows to make them go further and hitting headshots dealing more dmg than an extremity or the torso. I wish bows went back to skill versus this auto targeting crap we have now. it was more fun having to actually aim a spell or strike vs what we have now you look in the area and it locks down on the target. if they switched this(which they wont because a lot of code to do it most likely) I would be happy haha
EDIT: heck I would be happy if they even just switched it for bows/staffs and leave the rest auto target haha. Think this would increase the effectiveness of a bow(because of now every shot is a body shot) but who knows.Edited by Lightninvash on February 18, 2016 2:38PM1 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »
And to get the Best dps every mag class has to go malee Range no reason stam cant do the same
Sure. Lets not fix absurd stuff, lets add more of it beacuse... spite.
'***, my car broke down.'
'I can give you a lift, while your car is at the garage.'
'Nah, I dont want to have my car repaired. I want to see yours broken too.'
it has nothing to do with broken things.
Its just if you want max DPS you have to go malee, as mag or stam user, if you want to go range you have to secrifice DPS and be on the safer side on the other hand.
You cant have everything, that "i want everything cos i want" habbit is what brought all those stupid nerfs which everybody calls for first and dont want once they go live.
Half the damage magicka classes do ISNT from Staff, even more than half. Sorcs shoot frags, liquid lighntning and Overload (overload is a big part of the dps in boss fights) and to get max DPS they have to use lightning form and go malee range. you can get what if you only use shock? 15k dps?
Bow? isnt perfect but snipe spam is one of the easiest ways for casual stam users to do good dps.
How much dps can you pull with it? 15-20k? thats what every average casual DD can pull too, and its enough to get EVERY content in the game done.
If you want max DPS you cant have everything, you have to sacrifice something for it. Hell, what if I want to use healing staff as mag DD, or SnB? my dps will suck then but hey, buff those, cos i can use them, and i want to sue them, and im mad others can egt better DPS with other weapons.0 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are a few very skilled bow users in PC/ EU with a special snowflake gear and build that they don't share publically, the rest of Tamriel archers are dealing so bad damage, that they're often outbeated by the tanks and healers dps.
For pvp it is totally viable and OP. I can't think of an evening where I've done pvp, and haven't dropped dead from having 100% hp to 0 in an instant, because of lag.
For pve it is close to being useless. Too low damage, and only viable in fights where ranged weapons are preferred, such as The Planer Inhibitor in vWhite Gold Tower to shoot down portals, not enemies or the boss. >.<
Furthermore some L2P-in-group-content issues bow users often have, because they're used to solo play or pvp:
- bow users tend to stay out of healing range which is 28 meters.
- bow users tend to reset bosses, because if a boss gets aggro on them, they run too far away.
- bow users tend to spread mobs out, because their AoE skills are ranged, without taking consideration for their team who often use melee AoE and need mobs to be close.
- bow users are squishy and have no self heals through their weapon skill line.
- bow users have to stand still for a moment to cast snipe, which is the best damage skill in bow skill line - in cases of moving targets and damage circles on ground this is a bad weapon.
- bow users often play in first-person to aim better, and thus don't see they're standing in a large red circle and taking damage.
<< add to that the low damage they deal. Bow is not a friendly weapon for inexperienced players, who wish to join pve group content.2 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭it has nothing to do with broken things.
Its just if you want max DPS you have to go malee, as mag or stam user, if you want to go range you have to secrifice DPS and be on the safer side on the other hand.
You cant have everything, that "i want everything cos i want" habbit is what brought all those stupid nerfs which everybody calls for first and dont want once they go live.
Half the damage magicka classes do ISNT from Staff, even more than half. Sorcs shoot frags, liquid lighntning and Overload (overload is a big part of the dps in boss fights) and to get max DPS they have to use lightning form and go malee range. you can get what if you only use shock? 15k dps?
The thread isnt about a 1-2k dps differences (this is how much youll gain from adding boundless storm to your bar and staying in melee as a sorc). Its about a 10k+ differences. Half the magicka damage isnt from staff... well, thats great. Where are my stamina class morphs to complement the bow? Where are the class passives to boost my bow damage/utility?Bow? isnt perfect but snipe spam is one of the easiest ways for casual stam users to do good dps.
How much dps can you pull with it? 15-20k? thats what every average casual DD can pull too, and its enough to get EVERY content in the game done.
20k dps from snipe spam? Not bloody likely. You can on the other hand place Liquid Lightning and spam Overload for 30k dps without going melee.If you want max DPS you cant have everything, you have to sacrifice something for it.
Yes, you have to sacrifice your preferred playstyle especially if it happens to include using a bow.
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on February 18, 2016 3:41PMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0