The haves and have nots in PVP

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

PVP in this game is either one of the best experiences in any MMO or one of the worst. I believe that's due to the very HUGE disparity between the haves and have nots. This chasm is very evident in almost all encounters in small scale PVP and in my opinion should majorly be addressed before small scale events (arenas/BGS) sanctioned by ZOS are implemented. The worst part about it is the disparity between the best and worst PVPers goes well beyond skill. Here are a few things that really make the valley gigantic.

1. Gear - Whether you are doing low level PVP or high end game PVP, gear matters...a lot. The difference between someone in full V16 gold armor with gold enchants and gold weapons and someone even in v15 or v16 purple items is huge. Stats are considerable

2. Champion points - While the champ point cap was a step in the right direction, champion points still matter and its not marginal. The max 25% effectiveness of any individual stat is way too high in my opinion. Someone with 501 versus someone with 100 points is considerable and is evident in not only offense but defense and resource management as well.

3. Skills - Some of the best PVP skills in the game are behind some considerably high walls. While this is getting addressed, its not going away completely. Someone operating with vigor, caltrops, or det mag is at a considerable advantage over someone who doesn't have these skills.

4. Combat system manipulations - This is tied to player skill but considerably different since you are gaming the system. If you are a master of animation cancelling, block casting, or other ways to manipulate the combat system, you are simply just doing more than someone who isnt. Your do more damage and take less damage and it just comes down to understanding how the combat system works better than someone who doesn't. If you don't think this is a big deal, think again. Its a HUGE advantage.

5. Player skill - This is about the only legitimate disparity that should be "very impactful" Player skill is things like build loadout, skill selection, movement, line of sight, when to use which skills and when not to....basically quality of strategy and execution of the strategies. This should be a big advantage and the most impactful one. This is why we continue to play cause we want to get better at this one.

6. Bug knowledge and exploits. - Every game has them and every game has players who exploit them. Even though no one wants them, they are still a considerable disadvantage to people who don't know or use them. Unfortunately ZOS takes its sweet time fixing these and usually only addresses them every major quality of life patch. That would be all well and good but as soon as they fix 3 or 4 of the worst offenders, 3 or 4 pop up in their place. This is just a constant thing that PVPers have to deal with but they offer a huge benefit nonetheless.

As anyone who is new to this game, even 1 of these factors will put you on an uphill battle. Combine all 6 of them together and you have zero chance of winning a battle. In fact, even several players against someone who has all of these advantages is just laughable. We've all been there and been part of a group of 5 players trying to take out 1 guy and he never comes close to dying. The gap is waaay to large in my opinion and really needs to be considered before small scale PVP is officially implemented.

Nestor · February 2016

1. Gear is not all that important. Yes, the Min-Maxers are now all getting a posse together to hunt me down but its the truth. A good player in moderate gear is still better than a moderate player in great gear. Same with Champ points to an extent. Can gear have an impact on the outcome, sure, but is it the prevailing factor as to why one player wins over another? Nope. Look at your Death Recaps, its not 10% less gear that is killing you, its the other players skill rotations.
2. The catch up mechanic for Champ Points is quite good actually. It does not take all that long to get to 300 points. And once at 300 points, your going to be on par with those who are at the current cap of 501. Heck I have gained from 300 to 450 since Orsinium came out and that is with 0 grinding, just doing the quests up there with 4 alts and that is on the lean part of the catch up curve.
3. I guess you have not seen the new AP requirements for levels in the PTS. It will be much easier to obtain these skills with Thieves Guild
4, 5, and 6. Yes, these take practice and it all part of getting good.

Lexxypwns · February 2016

Nestor wrote: »

1. Gear is not all that important. Yes, the Min-Maxers are now all getting a posse together to hunt me down but its the truth. A good player in moderate gear is still better than a moderate player in great gear. Same with Champ points to an extent. Can gear have an impact on the outcome, sure, but is it the prevailing factor as to why one player wins over another? Nope. Look at your Death Recaps, its not 10% less gear that is killing you, its the other players skill rotations.
2. The catch up mechanic for Champ Points is quite good actually. It does not take all that long to get to 300 points. And once at 300 points, your going to be on par with those who are at the current cap of 501. Heck I have gained from 300 to 450 since Orsinium came out and that is with 0 grinding, just doing the quests up there with 4 alts and that is on the lean part of the catch up curve.
3. I guess you have not seen the new AP requirements for levels in the PTS. It will be much easier to obtain these skills with Thieves Guild
4, 5, and 6. Yes, these take practice and it all part of getting good.

if you think that knowing bugs and exploits is even remotely on par with being good then you're part of the problem

I do feel the other 5 things are points that SHOULD cause a disparity in PvP effectiveness though

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

Nestor wrote: »

1. Gear is not all that important. Yes, the Min-Maxers are now all getting a posse together to hunt me down but its the truth. A good player in moderate gear is still better than a moderate player in great gear. Same with Champ points to an extent. Can gear have an impact on the outcome, sure, but is it the prevailing factor as to why one player wins over another? Nope. Look at your Death Recaps, its not 10% less gear that is killing you, its the other players skill rotations.
2. The catch up mechanic for Champ Points is quite good actually. It does not take all that long to get to 300 points. And once at 300 points, your going to be on par with those who are at the current cap of 501. Heck I have gained from 300 to 450 since Orsinium came out and that is with 0 grinding, just doing the quests up there with 4 alts and that is on the lean part of the catch up curve.
3. I guess you have not seen the new AP requirements for levels in the PTS. It will be much easier to obtain these skills with Thieves Guild
4, 5, and 6. Yes, these take practice and it all part of getting good.

The point is...any one of those things is not critically impactful but if you combine all of them together, it just puts you at such a HUGH disadvantage that its impossible to even compete.

I am looking forward to PVPing on a chamion point less campaign. I am curious how much that adds to the defense of some of these unkillable players.

Nestor · February 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

if you think that knowing bugs and exploits is even remotely on par with being good then you're part of the problem

I do feel the other 5 things are points that SHOULD cause a disparity in PvP effectiveness though

Are there really any bugs and exploits that create a huge disparity between two players?

Of course the other factors could create a disparity between players, but does that disparity equate to win count?

Nestor · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

I am looking forward to PVPing on a chamion point less campaign. I am curious how much that adds to the defense of some of these unkillable players.

Yes, that will be interesting.

But some players on the losing side will still try to blame gear, skill points and the phases of the moon rather than examining their own play styles and adapting.

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

I am looking forward to PVPing on a chamion point less campaign. I am curious how much that adds to the defense of some of these unkillable players.

Yes, that will be interesting.

But some players on the losing side will still try to blame gear, skill points and the phases of the moon rather than examining their own play styles and adapting.

I certainly agree but as a player who is constantly on the death end of these encounters, I will feel better that my lowly 180 champion points aren't hurting me on top of my gear and skill gap.

I love the feel of ESO combat but my least favorite disadvantage that I have not experienced in any other game ever is the whole animation cancelling thing. The fact that my dawnbreaker takes 1+ second to cast and yours is instant cause you know how to cancel it really makes the whole system suck from a PVP perspective. multiply that times all skills and you have 2 players playing 2 different combat systems.

dem0n1k · February 2016

Well... I only have points 1 & 2 ... & my gear is not top notch. I craft new blue gear for my Alts every 10 levels or every 2 VRs because I would run out of purple improvement agents real fast with 8 characters being played. I have around 260 champion points.

I have 3 Alts with Vigor.. but none with caltrops yet. I have come to the realisation that with my Australian 260+ ping, I will never master animation cancelling as it just does not work with a ping that high... & 260 is my BEST ping... more often it hovers around 300.

I still manage to have fun & get kills!

Because you missed one important tip to 'winning' PVP fights.. have team backup! A phat zerg really helps with those seemingly unkillable players

Having dedicated healers in your group can really pump your sustain if you are a nightblade with no heals other than potions.

TBH I really like the ESO system that the players that have been playing longest are teh most powerful. I know the system cops flack from new players with the complaint that it's not a level playing field for them... but I think it makes the combat really cool. When I get totally hammered by some dude in a weird looking helmet, that is glowing purple & his health bar looks like it's overflowing... it makes me want to research that helmet & effects & maybe even attain one for myself! Something to work towards.

EdmundTowers · February 2016

You bring up a lot of good points OP. Except the part that ZOS shouldnt implement small scale events like arenas, until they resolve the issues you brought up. I think they should implement them anyways, and when that happens people will see what youre talking about and whine until ZOS eventually fixes them.

Mojmir · February 2016

You forgot lag as a factor,maybe it falls under bugs exploits. Id be badass if i could switch skillbars lol

DHale · February 2016

If you work hard and consistently you can get what the haves have. You have to earn it. No one inhererited the having (unless account was bought). They worked hard and they earned it. Anyone can learn to play better if you don't want to play at thier level don't try. There are ppl I will not fight unless they jump me. I am not going down without a fight but might not win and there are ppl I will try from time to time and there were ppl that were awesome at game launch and used to crush me now they can go dozen of fight where I beat them. I know them by name. Anyone can do the same.

Mojmir · February 2016

DHale wrote: »

If you work hard and consistently you can get what the haves have. You have to earn it. No one inhererited the having (unless account was bought). They worked hard and they earned it. Anyone can learn to play better if you don't want to play at thier level don't try. There are ppl I will not fight unless they jump me. I am not going down without a fight but might not win and there are ppl I will try from time to time and there were ppl that were awesome at game launch and used to crush me now they can go dozen of fight where I beat them. I know them by name. Anyone can do the same.

There's a certain emperor not following this lol

Nestor · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The fact that my dawnbreaker takes 1+ second to cast and yours is instant cause you know how to cancel it really makes the whole system suck from a PVP perspective. multiply that times all skills and you have 2 players playing 2 different combat systems.

Animation Canceling does change the combat. However its in the game and probably not going away. I did not notice all that much a change to this on the PTS, but then again, I am not that good at it. The best advice I can give is to learn how to do it, then figure out rotations that are most effective for your playstyle. Then practice.

Xeniph · February 2016

I would really like to know where all this expectation of "fairness" comes from.

You want all this you have to work for it. That's how life works.

Kids these days, I swear.

Waffennacht · February 2016

The armor, well you can craft armor that will compare to drops.

As for skill... yeah

About the exploits, completely agree, really come on, why cheat at a game? Where's the fun in that? (And I mean actual cheating not AC or something like that) (imo the only thing AC removal would really do is pwn certain pve builds)

phillyboy7897 · February 2016

U can learn to anim cancel in one day. Look up lefty Lucy's video. It's more button presses but it is not very hard.

Recremen · February 2016

Blockcasting and animation canceling are a part of player skill, I'm not sure why you have those as separate line items.

Brutusmax1mus · February 2016

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

PhatGrimReaper · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

The part you are missing is that the 'Haves' didn't just have it handed to them, they had to complete content, battle the RNG gods and most likely take part in a fair amount of grinding to achieve the 'Gud' status. At some point they too were probably behind the curve in one way or another, but put in the time/effort to fill the deficit.

If your gear isn't allowing you to compete, get better gear.... If your lack of knowledge is holding you back, learn.... if you are behind the CP creep, level a couple of alts.... the point is, these things are only an obstacle because people allow them to be. .

Miszou · February 2016

Xeniph wrote: »

I would really like to know where all this expectation of "fairness" comes from.

You want all this you have to work for it. That's how life works.

Kids these days, I swear.

You're not wrong...

... but on the other hand, surely you can see that being continuously roflstomped by superior firepower is going to make a lot of people just walk away.

Global Agenda was a skill-based game, and it was very possible for noobs to take on the best players in the top end gear - because the top-end gear gave something like a meagre +5% damage over the base equipment. Yeah, it's a totally different game, but they recognized that pitting scrubs with crap gear against pro's with gold gear wasn't going to be much fun for half the players...

I get that an MMO requires "work" to get the best stuff - and that's why I very rarely venture into PvP. Because I simply don't have the time to work as hard as some people, and end up with nothing but rage and tears to show for it. I've got better ways to spend my evenings, and learning how to "git gud" while being teabagged is pretty low on my list.

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

IMO the biggest divide is between those with mmo mice and those without. The rest is just practice and time in game.

Speely · February 2016

Eh. It should be hard and unfair and an uphill battle. The "haves" are those willing to embrace that and find ways to get good despite it. The "have nots" are those used to modern games and how easy they are, and thus expect the mechanics of the game to work in such a way that they equalize player input in a way that makes said input meaningless.

DisgracefulMind · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

What are you wanting, then? All that you have listed (I'm not counting exploits atm) are available to ANY player. Do you want ZoS to find another way to take away from people who have played this game thus far? I'm honestly not sure what you're asking for in this post.

Speely · February 2016

New players SHOULD get stomped if they compete against competent vets. WTF world are we living in here when someome with A) more time invested and thus B ) better gear, and C) more experience playing the game to get good at it should NOT have a considerable advantage against newcomers?? I mean are we handing out participation medals in the form of AP now? Losing means learning. Learning means getting better. Getting better means having an advantage over those who have learned less. Beautiful cycle of life. Play to win.

Rylana · February 2016

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

What are you wanting, then? All that you have listed (I'm not counting exploits atm) are available to ANY player. Do you want ZoS to find another way to take away from people who have played this game thus far? I'm honestly not sure what you're asking for in this post.

Honestly, I am reading this thread as...

I want a button that lets me be gold v16 501 AVA50 Emperor all campaigns super siege with 50 billion gold and 100 stacks of tripots and i want it NOW

Brutusmax1mus · February 2016

@Lord Xanhorn

I get your point, but this is not that type of game. I have only been playing a few months and have characters decked out with mats for more. I work full time, and don't spend all day playing. It's not as hard as you make it sound. If people are discouraged by a little work and required effort then they probably don't like many video games besides p2w.

Funkopotamus · February 2016

Those "Walls" as you say are called REWARDS! I understand that people will get upset if they are not handed everything on a platter, but DANGIT!

Your kind of arguments are what is wrong with ESO! This is NOT a FPS! ESO is BabiesFirstMMO as it is already. The game does not need to be watered down even more just because someone put the time and effort into obtaining gear/skills does NOT mean you or any other person should have those things handed to you just because you "Havalfye" or are a "Casual"! or any other "Insert derogatory comment" <--.

I understand people are going to want to play on an even competitive playing field, but it is not ZOS's job to hand everything out just because some few people feel they are entitled to them. Everything in this game is easy enough to obtain with a decent guild to help you along.

Again this is a MMO not a FPS.. Everyone is not vanilla equal out of the gate. We are going to have to put some time/effort into PvP if we expect to be on a competitive playing field.

DisgracefulMind · February 2016

Rylana wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

What are you wanting, then? All that you have listed (I'm not counting exploits atm) are available to ANY player. Do you want ZoS to find another way to take away from people who have played this game thus far? I'm honestly not sure what you're asking for in this post.

Honestly, I am reading this thread as...

I want a button that lets me be gold v16 501 AVA50 Emperor all campaigns super siege with 50 billion gold and 100 stacks of tripots and i want it NOW

Basically how I've read this post as well.

I remember when I was an AWFUL PvPer and PvEr lol. I literally had no clue. It took me getting roflstomped, learning to duel, learning the inner mechanics of the game, practicing rotations, farming countless mats, trying different gear setups, etc. etc. to become the decent player that I am in this game.

It annoys me more than just a little bit when I read posts such as this that complain about people like us who have spent time and effort into playing and learning this game in and out. You don't have to play all the time to be a good player or to "stand a chance" against experienced players; you just need to use the time you do have to learn the game and to get the materials you need for what you want gear-wise and such.

Not sure what else the OP is wanting. Do you just want ZoS to delete all the accounts of the people who have sustained this game thus far? Because, really, this post is nonsense and quite literally sounds like someone can't handle their own l2p issues.

I think with the CP catch-up mechanic, and the soon removal of Vet Ranks, ZoS is accommodating newer players well enough.

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@Lord Xanhorn
1. Gear disparity should be in an mmo. It does not break anything in pvp as all players can get there.

2. Same as the above. Makes a difference, but there are going to be non cp pvp zones. I like champion points bc, again, all players can get them.

3. All players can get them. Again.

4. All players can and should learn these to be competitive.

5. Not a problem in pvp.

6. Needs fixing.

If you want a pvp have where everyone is symmetrically or asymmetrically balanced with nothing to work towards than player skill then play StarCraft.

Zos is already putting things in game to address cp and skills.

This is an mmo

I think you fail to understand my point. I never said that these gaps were insurmountable and that if you are a have not you can't turn into a have. I am simply saying that each one of the list advantages is sizeable and if you combine all of them, a new player is fighting an unwinnable battle. Yes you can spend hours getting mats to craft v16 gear, and you can spend hours grinding AP to unlock skills, and you can spend hours getting 501 CP, and you can spend countless hours getting better skill and learning the combat effectively, but when you add up all the hours it takes to overcome these advantages, it seems undaunting when you are at the start.

If you stacked all the advantages and you were say 40-50% stronger than me then I would say fine. But in actuality, stacking all the stated advantages realistically makes you 300-400% stronger than me. Its a huge gap and I don't think its as big in any other MMO out there.

Are you saying that the game should cater to players unwilling to put time and effort into an mmo? If being a new player and having the whole game ahead of you is daunting enough to prevent you from playing then why should that player be persuaded to play? Surely they should just find something else to play? Having the challenge of the whole game ahead of you should be exciting and motivating. In my experience having nothing to work towards is more demotivating. This is why games have progression and failure states. If you want instant match-making then there are games such as CS:GO, dota 2 etc, but I think you might find the uphill struggle is just as real in those games.

Erynyes · February 2016

buy razer keyboard, set up latency program, press rrrrrrrrrrrrr, have 2 ultimate drop at once ( 2x atronach, dawnbreaker, soul assault, etc..) thats the sad state of pvp game balance atm.