Stam Sorcs, where are their improvements?

Alucardo · February 2016

Trying to remain calm here, but the only thing you did with stam sorcs was fix a minor issue with Thundering Presence. The thing is, I don't know many people who run this skill because it's such a stamina hog to keep up, so they all use boundless storm anyway.
I run S+B on my stam sorc, so now it's even more useless because I can't reflect meteor and I don't have the increased healing of, say, a DK.

Basically if this update goes live you're making stam sorcs even less viable than they already were. Please, go through the forums and listen to people on their stam sorc suggestions.
Here's just a few things that I can think of

- Give us access to major mending
- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)
- Some kind of direct damage ability. I'm sure a lot of people will still run wrecking blow, but the more options the better
- Increase major expedition on Thundering Presence

You've stated the speed buff on major expedition is being lowered, so thundering presence at 4 seconds is worse than ever. In a way, you've actually nerfed Stam sorcs quite a lot in this patch and they didn't need it.
If you don't plan on increasing expedition on thundering presence, I think major mending would be a good spot for it.

Ampnode · February 2016

For as long as the Lord of the Daggerfall Covenant, Fengrush, remains a stam sorc, there will be no revisions or additions.

When ZoS gathers at their conference table to discuss class balances and stamina sorcerer is brought up, they simply load the Lord's stream for answers. Five minutes into the stream a death recap appears. It displays: Ambush Ambush Surprise Attack Ambush Ambush. "*** Zenimax and their Nightblades!," he roars. They close the stream and think for several, long seconds on possible ways to make stamina sorcerers better for the giving Lord. After those long seconds they close their notepads, which appear to only consist of simply doodles of bears and camels, and come up with a solution... Giveth thee the best of gifts Zenimax has to offer.

Crown Store buffs.

RoyJade · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)

Pretty sure that surge heal work on shield actually, shield don't take critical damage but if your attack is a crit, surge heal you. For less life because it take the non-critical damage for his calculation, though.

Alucardo · February 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)

Pretty sure that surge heal work on shield actually, shield don't take critical damage but if your attack is a crit, surge heal you. For less life because it take the non-critical damage for his calculation, though.

Are you sure? You can't crit a shield, so I'm uncertain how crit surge would work against them already. I can use the new combat text on PTS to test it out now I guess. No I don't use addons

Kas · February 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

For as long as the Lord of the Daggerfall Covenant, Fengrush, remains a stam sorc, there will be no revisions or additions.

When ZoS gathers at their conference table to discuss class balances and stamina sorcerer is brought up, they simply load the Lord's stream for answers. Five minutes into the stream a death recap appears. It displays: Ambush Ambush Surprise Attack Ambush Ambush. "*** Zenimax and their Nightblades!," he roars. They close the stream and think for several, long seconds on possible ways to make stamina sorcerers better for the giving Lord. After those long seconds they close their notepads, which appear to only consist of simply doodles of bears and camels, and come up with a solution... Giveth thee the best of gifts Zenimax has to offer.
Crown Store buffs.

as a EU player, i never met fengrush. i guess h's probably actually good. but i once tuned in to the stream (albeit for only 10 minuts). i saw 4 cirtrushs in a row, followed by 3 wrecking blows and a death to multi-nb spambush. then there was a 5 minute rant about spambush. then i tuned off.

Brrrofski · February 2016

Did stam sorcs get a speed nerf?

Major expedition is reduced to 30%, spring speed it increased to 40%.

Movment is 100% speed let's say.

The old way:
30% sprint speed equals 130%. 40% of that is 52, making speed 182%.

The new way:
40% sprint speed equals 140%. 30% of that is 42, making sprint speed 182%.

So it's the same, but everyone has gained 10% default sprint speed. So anyone with major expedition has lost 10% when compared to anyone without. So that it a nerf the way I see it.

Yeh, it hits all expedition, but stam sorcs inmy experience rely on speed more than other classes. DK can reflect while closing a gap, nb can cloak (against someone not running magelight now it seems).

I think my math is right anyway...

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2016

Stamina Sorcerers and Stamina DKs still need instant cast physical damage DPS that scales off stamina.

That terrible lightning form morph needs to be reverted back to a magicka skill. It is a utility spell. Stamina builds use MAGICKA for utility and stamina for DPS. Not the other way around.

I have this all outlined in my post: Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.

Also streak needs to have the cooldown removed if you use it offensively and streak through someone. That would still keep it from being abused as an escape but reward people for using it offensively. As long as you are doing damage with streak, it shouldn't cost more to cast. Stam sorcs can barely cast it twice without being OOM.

Jeezye · February 2016

How comes that theres still no reply for this thread yet??

The kit that stam sorcs provide with the current setup is embarassing and ZOS promised to change that. If the TG goes live like that theres really now room for any decent stam build in PvP, given that all other classes are well looked after.

We still need

- any stamina dmg ability, e.g. the long discussed stamina frag (yes stamsorcs dont have a SINGE stam dmg ability, besides thundering presence that not even stam builds morph into)
- buff up the bound armor morph (two slots for just a tiny bit of armor, max stam and weapon dmg is just a waste) poorly theres no other viable skill of daedric summoning to choose. Maybe increase the HA dmg to up to 40% the longer they are charged, kinda like DKs
- any defensive mechanic that stamina sorcs can choose, because shields are just not viable with stamina builds
- crit surge can't heal against shields which is a MASSIVE disadvantage and makes it less viable compared to momentum

In the current TG state, stamina sorceres will again vanish into thin air.. PLS include this in the update @ZOS_GinaBruno

kkampaseb17_ESO · February 2016

You obviously didn't hear Wrobel on ESO live saying that this is intended and we are supposed to use weapon-line skills. Cause obviously surprise attack is comparable with the weapon attacks from weapon lines.....

FENGRUSH · February 2016

RIP

Alucardo · February 2016

Lol I forgot about this thread. Deleted 2 of my 3 stam sorcs and playing DK as my main again. I'm done man. So done.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · February 2016

What's a stam sorc?

Alucardo · February 2016

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

What's a stam sorc?

Sadness.

Miwerton · February 2016

Cant say im suprised, zos combat is terrible. And my Hope for this game just comited suicide, after multiple times of failing to go trough with it.

They only think in theory and not how it will work when out, and when they do get comments they put them on ignore foreva.
You would think that when it was going to be TG, they would fix up the rather terrible stealth mechanics, instead first mages guild skill will break it in pvp, trying to take thieves trophfes puts you out of stealth and your pointed out as a criminal (so long skillfull thieving), and the 3 times for sneak to get fully activated bug still persist since justice system came out.

The multidute of useless class, weapon and guild skills that are rarely used, usually when testing out what that skill do, and then realize its terrible and avoid it. The contiued low selection of class stamina skills, and having almost all ultimates all scale of damages only found in the magicka constelation tree, as said before they should scale of different damages depending if stamina or magicka is highest.

So far the only other way I am gonna play this game again, is if came accros an alternative dimension where combat team really made a great efford, and made a stunningly great structure where diversity and uniqe strenghts where made in all classes and races. But instead it makes me feel as uncomfortable as young Alex here.

shugg · February 2016

Just so you know they talked about this on ESO live - Up date 10 will look at tanking and stam classes, they have some cool stuff - they will look at vamp , ww, undaunted, fighters, mages guild - best part was stam dk morphs looking and dealing poison damage

Alucardo · February 2016

shugg wrote: »

Just so you know they talked about this on ESO live - Up date 10 will look at tanking and stam classes, they have some cool stuff - they will look at vamp , ww, undaunted, fighters, mages guild - best part was stam dk morphs looking and dealing poison damage

This is the thing, more people have been complaining about stam sorcs than updating stam DKs, yet they were more forthcoming regarding DKs. We have no idea if they are to look at stam sorcs in update 11 - just that we know they will do stuff with stamina..

SturgeHammer · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

- Give us access to major mending

I actually really like this suggestion, but I have no idea where it would be worked into the passives.

Alucardo wrote: »

- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)

This would be really cool. On functional level, it would make Crit surge heals more reliable and make stam sorc the go to counter against damage shields. On a flavor level using magically charged weapons to deal more damage to magical shields makes sense.

Xeven · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)

I approve of this blanket buff to all Sorcerers.

Carry on you fabulous Sorc hating Sorcs.

Alucardo · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)

I approve of this blanket buff to all Sorcerers.

Carry on you fabulous Sorc hating Sorcs.

Good point... I kind of figured magicka sorcs would run power surge to get major sorcery, otherwise they'd need to buff entropy + crit surge.
But yeah, needs more thought xD

Xeven · February 2016

I actually don't approve. You're out of your goddamned mind. Think of something that will actually help you vs everyone.

Proc on shields? Fine. Actually apply crit damage? GTFO sitting there in your 80%++ passive crit resist on top of your buffed passive armor/spell resists.

Turning on other sorcs is NOT going to help you.

Alucardo · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

I actually don't approve. You're out of your goddamned mind.

No worries. Will be on my DK running Shield Breaker and maxing the shattering blows CP passive. Won't need to crit shields when I can hit sorcs with 2 Shield Breakers at once, targeting their health instead of the actual shield. #ThanksZOS

Soneca798 · February 2016

I think a stamina morph of deadric curse, dealing poison damage and applying to self might be a good idea for a stam sorc damage ability.

Like how inevitable and proxy work, but in this case the self queue would be exclusive to stamina. This could give stam sorc a burst identity, and it would give them a stamina skill that would not be in any way similar to the other stamina dps abilities of other classes.

DK has a dot, NB has instant damage, Templar has a channel, and Sorc would be able to queue up damage to set up a burst, making it stand on it's own and be a desirable choice, as it would be the only stamina class with their own version of prox det.

While I would be happy with a stam frag, I know this is probably never gonna happen since zos wants class identity to be a big thing, and many people suggest stam frag as either a carbon copy of mag frag, or surprise attack.

@Alucardo please don't give up dude, I've seen you as a stam sorc defender on this site for a while now, hang on until update 10! We might get something ;-;

Alucardo · February 2016

Soneca798 wrote: »

@Alucardo please don't give up dude, I've seen you as a stam sorc defender on this site for a while now, hang on until update 10! We might get something ;-;

It's hard trying defend something when everything you suggest to the developers falls on deaf ears

Stamina Sorcs were actually brought up in the last ESO Live, and all we got was a very generic response, "Stamina will be looked at next update". That does not fill me with much confidence.

Xeven · February 2016

Soneca798 wrote: »

I think a stamina morph of deadric curse, dealing poison damage and applying to self might be a good idea for a stam sorc damage ability.

No because you will *** off all 7 people using pets with this morph.

You are stuck being a Wrecking blow spamming werewolf with streak and lightning form for 6 more months. Likely forever.

Alucardo · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

You are stuck being a Wrecking blow spamming werewolf with streak and lightning form for 6 more months. Likely forever.

How the hell did you know my build?

Alucardo · February 2016

Oh, right

Xeven · February 2016

Ahahaha =D

I bet you can guess mine too. =(

Talyena · February 2016

I learned from watching Twitch that what stam sorcs needed most were nerfs to NBs and BoL. I thought stam sorcs would be thrilled with this update.

Solariken · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

- Give us access to major mending
- While crit surge is active, allow it to crit shields (this will allow us to heal from people using shields)
- Some kind of direct damage ability. I'm sure a lot of people will still run wrecking blow, but the more options the better
- Increase major expedition on Thundering Presence

You've stated the speed buff on major expedition is being lowered, so thundering presence at 4 seconds is worse than ever. In a way, you've actually nerfed Stam sorcs quite a lot in this patch and they didn't need it.
If you don't plan on increasing expedition on thundering presence, I think major mending would be a good spot for it.

I agree that stam sorc could use more options in the DPS toolkit (Crystal Blast would be the perfect place to do this), but I think ZOS needs to be careful because they are in a very powerful and unique situation in terms of survivability.

I DO think that Critical Surge should allow critical strikes on shields while active. This would be a really fun sorcerer vs. sorcerer counter. I think they should leave shield stacking as it is but give this buff to stam sorcs and add 10% bonus damage to the Templar Piercing Spear passive. I feel like these two things would help balance out the power of shield stacking. We should make a separate thread to discuss these...

I definitely don't like the idea of granting access to Major Mending - that would be a MASSIVE buff to sorcs, way over the top. Dk's and Templars need this buff because they can't escape incoming damage. Stam sorcs can disengage a fight whenever they want, nobody can match your speed.

CP5 · February 2016

I like how after almost a full year of waiting all we were told was "We knew going into this we wouldn't be able to do everything." ZOS needs to do more balance patches, they cannot do this once a quarter garbage because all that does is cause frustration. "We don't want to put to much into a single patch" but they still seem to think its fine to brush off parts of the community that have been waiting with NO response at all.

And I tried thundering presence again on pts, glad I never bothered with the skill on live, but i'm sure it filled some quota and after that they just moved along.

Erock25 · February 2016

shugg wrote: »

Just so you know they talked about this on ESO live - Up date 10 will look at tanking and stam classes, they have some cool stuff - they will look at vamp , ww, undaunted, fighters, mages guild - best part was stam dk morphs looking and dealing poison damage

@shugg The problem is that this has been said before, specifically for stamina sorcs.. In april 2015, we get a dev post about upcoming changes for stam sorc and what do we have to show for it? Some stam regen if we slot a deadric summoning skill (decent upgrade but boring and forced my stam pvp build to use storm atro), more weapon power per sorc skill slotted (again tough to take advantage of in a pvp spec), and thundering presence stam morph (terrible and never worth using over boundless in pvp).

Stam sorc has been the most nerfed class since the game was released. Anyone else remember before soft cap removal when hybrids were viable in pvp? Crit surge actually scaled with your magicka and you could stack weapon dmg buffs and get some crazy high numbers even with the softcap. Streak didn't drain all of your magicka on the second cast. Hardened Ward was worth using. It has just been nerf after nerf to go along with some really uninspired "buffs" ever since. There has also been tons of really good stam sorc feedback from the community and it's obvious that the developers disagree with what they have to say or just aren't paying attention.