An Open Letter to ZOS from a very concerned Templar

nagarjunna · February 2016

You are talking about the same thing - the damage has been done and is ongoing.

Without a clear vision statement from the designers we have no idea what his vision is and whether it is actually achievable. That is causing many players to leave/retire their templar or whatever.

The ongoing passion in the Official Templar feedback thread shows that people really want this class to succeed and do well.

nagarjunna · February 2016

AH well... The official feedback thread for Templars is all of 35 pages long and counting it's more than the combined page count of the other three classes.

I find the lack of a response really sad and more and more Templars are retiring. That says a lot!

nagarjunna · February 2016

@Wrobel, @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Would a considered and proper response not be appropriate? People are leaving the game and all it would take would be a simple acknowledgement, the outline of a vision and a roadmap of how you plan to get there.

Meanwhile people leave, are unsubbing and lowering ZOS' profits. This lack of a response is now costing you money, your jobs are on the line. Why won't you respond?

Alorier · February 2016

Yep think I will be unsubbing end of month fed up with lack if response if people knew there direction might be bothered to stick around

Speely · February 2016

Buddies: We can't give up on Templars. We have to see this thing through. We have to be there on the very last day spamming whatever the **** keeps us competitive. We have to utilize what tools we have to approximate some semblance of relevance. If we don't do this, all hope will be lost. We are the heart and soul of ESO, and without us all would spiral into madness. Use your voices, but also use your skills. Show them that we will fight even when the fight is against us.

Right?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2016

Speely wrote: »

Buddies: We can't give up on Templars. We have to see this thing through. We have to be there on the very last day spamming whatever the **** keeps us competitive. We have to utilize what tools we have to approximate some semblance of relevance. If we don't do this, all hope will be lost. We are the heart and soul of ESO, and without us all would spiral into madness. Use your voices, but also use your skills. Show them that we will fight even when the fight is against us.

Right?

Well said! I will fight on!

As a NB or a Sorc I haven't decided. I'm leveling both.

Neoauspex · February 2016

Speely wrote: »

Buddies: We can't give up on Templars. We have to see this thing through. We have to be there on the very last day spamming whatever the **** keeps us competitive. We have to utilize what tools we have to approximate some semblance of relevance. If we don't do this, all hope will be lost. We are the heart and soul of ESO, and without us all would spiral into madness. Use your voices, but also use your skills. Show them that we will fight even when the fight is against us.

Right?

Reported for not giving up on Templars. Please adhere to forum policy re: giving up on Templars.

Islyn · February 2016

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

I've played a Templar from the first day the game went live during pre-launch in 2014. Except for a brief period after ZOS gave the class an execute, the Templar has always been the weakest DPS/DD class. I've maxed every weapon line on my Templar except sword and board. I've done magicka builds and stamina builds, and maxed all the class skills. I tried being a dedicated healer, tried range DPS, and melee DPS.

Templar can be a good tank due to its excellent self sustain, but the tank role is limited in ESO. Templar can be a good healer, of course, but ZOS seems to want to limit Templar healing so that the other classes' healing can be nearly on par with Templar. And there is absolutely nothing that puts the Templar on a par with the other classes for DPS/DD.

I've found a happy medium for my Templar doing mostly solo PvE at my pace and with my two favorite weapons, the bow and dual wield with a stamina DPS/DD oriented build. But this means my Templar will never be very good at PvP or intense group-oriented content.

;-/ That works not at all for everyone who PVPs and End Game PVEs.Solo stuuff ANY CLASS can do with a banana and frisbee.

Islyn · February 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Just what we needed, another thread about templars !

Well since the first however many are apparently falling on blind eyes, maybe we DO need another post on them.

How can anyone see all this and still just go yep! Imma go ahead with this.

Put it Back. Geez. lol.

Speely · February 2016

Neoauspex wrote: »

Speely wrote: »

Buddies: We can't give up on Templars. We have to see this thing through. We have to be there on the very last day spamming whatever the **** keeps us competitive. We have to utilize what tools we have to approximate some semblance of relevance. If we don't do this, all hope will be lost. We are the heart and soul of ESO, and without us all would spiral into madness. Use your voices, but also use your skills. Show them that we will fight even when the fight is against us.

Right?

Reported for not giving up on Templars. Please adhere to forum policy re: giving up on Templars.

Well-played.

Dear ZOS,

I am officially giving up on Templars. This post was immediately followed by powerleveling a Sorc. I hope that's ok.

With Love,

A Subscriber

Duiwel · February 2016

I just started a Templar on DC Friday night, I deleted a lvl 38 AD toon.

Now my new DC Templar will have fun & I will know what it's like to use breath of life before they nerd it.

I think Zeni need to take a step back and see what each class is like right now and then decide if anything is actually broken and needs fixing. Because I think most classes are fine atm.. the game's bugs need fixing not class changes ect.

nagarjunna · February 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

I just started a Templar on DC Friday night, I deleted a lvl 38 AD toon.

Now my new DC Templar will have fun & I will know what it's like to use breath of life before they nerd it.

I think Zeni need to take a step back and see what each class is like right now and then decide if anything is actually broken and needs fixing. Because I think most classes are fine atm.. the game's bugs need fixing not class changes ect.

I'm pleased you are trying a Templar, during they levelling up process they are a joy! Fantastic to play with and so on.

The problem is that once you hit vet level's the classes shortcomings are ruthlessly exposed and things get not fun very quickly.

The saddest thing is that the designers seem to be doing things in isolation and as knee-jerk responses to situations that occur. This does not help any class, however given the shortcomings the Templar class in particular has, it hits them very hard.

Spacemonkey · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Woe-bull gave us a pretty clear indication of his vision for the class during the last ESO Live; the problem is, that vision is in no way feasible in the current meta, and a clear majority of players do not want the vision for the class that he's aiming for.

Actually, been playing templar since beta (Haven't been able to put many hours since 1.6 - work reasons, but still consistently a few every week)

It's my only vet character

And I very much want Wrobel's 'vision' for the templars. It is in fact smack on the build I had prior 1.6, mixing up def buffs + rune and fighters guild circle of protection, I'd over double my res and armor past the SOFTCAPS. (Yes 200% of softcaps, dyou realize how much that was???). I was the most unkillable healer in the game. I'd stay in my @)$(* house , heal and def buff teamates, and overall protect the crap out of them. Oh I was no tank. (no aggro), but it is so much easier resource-wise (thus not mattering if I was stam or magicka for healing) to keep everyone healed up when you don't have to worry about yourself. To add, I was stam/hp hybrid (still am). This worked awesomely. Add another similar tamplar build to the team, we could def buff so high with those AoEs; we were nigh unkillable in Dungeons. (When a boss smacks you repeatdly, the HEALER, and you're just shrugging it off, no stress, and res-ing fallen teamates etc...) And if all hell broke loose youd launch the heal ultimate which would bring your def and res near 300% past softcap (ok maybe 250%) and give crazy regens to all 3 bars even though you were rooted. Killing you in that ulti was litterally unfeasible.

In PVE this was fun, excellent, fine. Because you NEED others to kill the stuff, dmg being rather sub par.
In PVP apparently this was exceedingly frustrating for DPSs or something, because 1.6 changed ALL of that. (as in, what do you mean 3 DPS can't burst you down? Doesn't matter if those 3 DPS are mostly safe because you dont have the mobility or dmage to kill them - obviously you are OP and need to be nerfed. Funny how DPS seems to be the only role that matters in PvP)

So I'll avoid going to much into a rant - I don't feel I've played enough since 1.6 to really grasp all the tiny intricacies and my opinion is mostly based off how I can no longer survive the way I did back then. See I really LIKE 'The House'. My house was the sht! I didn't care what was going on, I'd be standing in my [insert profanity] house and those long range DPS builds were exercising futility trying to kill me in it. DKs were my worse nightmare, (with their chains, pulling me out of my precious house). People new better than to waste all those resources killing temps in their houses so they got them to leave em, pulling them out, throwing them out, anything. Priority was to get the temp out of his multi AoE stacking madness house.

So yes @Wrobel, I very much get your vision, and very much do want it.
But you do realize you very much made sure the house would no longer ever work after 1.6? Every patch and step since has been driving the meta steadily away from the very possibility of having a functional AoE solo house.

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

The idea of Eric's Templar house thing was not that is how the Templar should be but was rather a response to why not give all classes all abilities. He was saying that having different classes that are good at different things was his point. He just used about the worst example he could have by saying a Templar is a stand your ground kind of character. Essentially don't take his comments as an affirmative that he's going to be working on giving templars better abilities but rather a negative when discussing giving templars more mobility/dps/anything useful.

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

Templars are designed for 1 thing....PVE healing and that's where you should have your fun with that class. Don't roll it to tank or dps and certainly don't roll it to PVP.

Sad but true and its been that way for almost 2 years.

nagarjunna · February 2016

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The idea of Eric's Templar house thing was not that is how the Templar should be but was rather a response to why not give all classes all abilities. He was saying that having different classes that are good at different things was his point. He just used about the worst example he could have by saying a Templar is a stand your ground kind of character. Essentially don't take his comments as an affirmative that he's going to be working on giving templars better abilities but rather a negative when discussing giving templars more mobility/dps/anything useful.

Which is why I'd actually like some clarity round this and why I am requesting a vision statement for where the templar is heading!

xboxone1Q · February 2016

I main a Templar vet 16 I haven't played eso in about a month or 2 and don't plan on coming back. Cause Zos and the community hates them. I give up on eso until I can get a race and class change. Ive been here since day 1 and still an eso plus member, I just don't care about eso anymore since I can't change my guy than I wont play him on here.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · February 2016

problem is,
Zos's vision for templar is the stand your ground kinda playstyle, stay where you are and fight there,
in this game, especially in the dynamic group play in Cyro, that just dont work, its bollucks
also, long ago, they advertised 'PLAY AS YOU WANT" and now they wanne force all players of a certain class, to play that specific way...
thing is, I see templars as alot more than Zos does, for example battle monks type char, or holy knight type char, or even backline caster healers, or dedicated tank type char, wich would give alot more options toward "play as you want"
issue with this is, they need to calibrate the abbilitys according to those char concepts, and were a long way from home (pun intended) for that

on a side note, I think templar would really benifit from a shout-like skillline, wich would buff/protect/speedup/... allies and debuff/weaken/slow/scare.. enemys,
with passives like for example,
- heal yourself for a small amount with each buff applied to an ally
- increase your damage by a small amount with each debuff applied to an enemy
this would make them very good for battle monk/holy knight/tank type on-the-move-playstyle (throw the straw house in the garbage pls)

b92303008rwb17_ESO · February 2016

After numerous updates or patches, I finally come to realize that what Templar or even the game as a whole really needs is a new combat developer team or new lead combat designer.

Ffastyl · February 2016

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

on a side note, I think templar would really benifit from a shout-like skillline, wich would buff/protect/speedup/... allies and debuff/weaken/slow/scare.. enemys,
with passives like for example,
- heal yourself for a small amount with each buff applied to an ally
- increase your damage by a small amount with each debuff applied to an enemy
this would make them very good for battle monk/holy knight/tank type on-the-move-playstyle (throw the straw house in the garbage pls)

I'm not behind the shout theme, but I do like the de/buff oriented skill line with passives rewarding de/buffs. My playstyle strays more towards Crusader/Paladin, so Aedric light, sword, shield or armor theme on the aesthetics is what I'd prefer.

harrlockk616 · February 2016

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

After numerous updates or patches, I finally come to realize that what Templar or even the game as a whole really needs is a new combat developer team or new lead combat designer.

AGREE

Milvan · February 2016

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

After numerous updates or patches, I finally come to realize that what Templar or even the game as a whole really needs is a new combat developer team or new lead combat designer.

+1

Abob · February 2016

I think templar is probably the strongest and most versatile class in the game, at least in pvp. Both stamina and magicka templar are the strongest in their respective attribute choice.

Templar vs magicka dk = just spam eclipse and countered.

Templar vs stamina DK = templar has better sustain and burst and can cleanse dots.

Templar vs magicka nb = can counter cloak with spear shards easily, and has better burst and sustain than NB.

Templar vs stamina nb = counter cloak with spear shards until the nb runs out of magicka (nb's have really bad sustain in comparison to templars) and then finish of the NB easily.

Templar vs stam sorc = really easy kills for any templar, sorcs have really bad passives for stamina, while templars, on the contrary, have great passives.

Templar vs magicka sorcs= just use eclipse and destroy shields with templar' burst. Also very easy to win in a sustain fight.

nagarjunna · February 2016

Sadly patch 2.3.2 on the PTS contains nothing really new for templars!

Still waiting for an overall vision statement. It's becoming more and more apparent that they are not providing one because they don't have one

I find that incredibly sad and am glad I retired my templar!

PF1901 · February 2016

Abob wrote: »

I think templar is probably the strongest and most versatile class in the game, at least in pvp. Both stamina and magicka templar are the strongest in their respective attribute choice.

Templar vs magicka dk = just spam eclipse and countered.

Templar vs stamina DK = templar has better sustain and burst and can cleanse dots.

Templar vs magicka nb = can counter cloak with spear shards easily, and has better burst and sustain than NB.

Templar vs stamina nb = counter cloak with spear shards until the nb runs out of magicka (nb's have really bad sustain in comparison to templars) and then finish of the NB easily.

Templar vs stam sorc = really easy kills for any templar, sorcs have really bad passives for stamina, while templars, on the contrary, have great passives.

Templar vs magicka sorcs= just use eclipse and destroy shields with templar' burst. Also very easy to win in a sustain fight.

This class needs a nerf ASAP!

nagarjunna · February 2016

HI @Abob

Awesome to see you posting here, however would you be able to link a video of you doing all of that to people?

Forgive me as I find I have real difficulty believing you!

harrlockk616 · February 2016

Hey @Abob

[/Show us the proof b]

GreenGhostMan · February 2016

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

I've played a Templar from the first day the game went live during pre-launch in 2014. Except for a brief period after ZOS gave the class an execute, the Templar has always been the weakest DPS/DD class. I've maxed every weapon line on my Templar except sword and board. I've done magicka builds and stamina builds, and maxed all the class skills. I tried being a dedicated healer, tried range DPS, and melee DPS.

Templar can be a good tank due to its excellent self sustain, but the tank role is limited in ESO. Templar can be a good healer, of course, but ZOS seems to want to limit Templar healing so that the other classes' healing can be nearly on par with Templar. And there is absolutely nothing that puts the Templar on a par with the other classes for DPS/DD.

I've found a happy medium for my Templar doing mostly solo PvE at my pace and with my two favorite weapons, the bow and dual wield with a stamina DPS/DD oriented build. But this means my Templar will never be very good at PvP or intense group-oriented content.

As a new player that chose Templar, this makes me sad...

Alucardo · February 2016

Imagine the letter from another class.

Subject: An open letter to zos from a stam sorc

<expletive>

Regards,
Stam sorc

nagarjunna · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Imagine the letter from another class.

Subject: An open letter to zos from a stam sorc

<expletive>

Regards,
Stam sorc

Dang! Was I too polite?