DK's Finisher suggestion

Kaendor · February 2016

After seeing the changes in the PTS, and testing for quite a while it is pretty obvious that Stamina builds are getting the short hand of the stick. For DKs a buff to magicka DKs was needed, but stamina DKs still suffer from a pretty bad identity crisis and will continue suffering from it after this DLC releases if something doesn't change. At the moment stamina DKs use only 2 and in some cases 3 class abilities.

Some things should change, I do agree that DKs need a stamina morph for whip for a bit of burst damage, whip hits like a wet noodle unless you are a magicka build with loads of spell damage.

I had this Idea for quite a long time, and I was hoping that something like this would be implemented in this patch but I guess I have to voice this to at least give this a chance to happen. So to go to my point, after this patch DKs will no longer have a finisher/execute like ability, instead another timed buff. There are some DK abilitties that not even magicka builds touch, one of them is Stonefist...that ability is almost non-existant becasue nobody uses it. What I would suggest is to change Stonefist into something useful, something that the DK class lacks: An Execute.
NB has Assassin's Blade.
Sorc has Mages fury.
Temps have Radiant destruction.

Sure there will be people telling DKs to just use Executioner form the 2h skill line, but that execute is locked for two handed weapons only, it is not class wide like the other classes, in part it is one f the causes for stamina DK's to be just another weapon's master generic class/build.
Of course a class execute would give something to both magicka and stamina builds, but it would help with the current identity crisis DKs have, it would help the class in general rather than having a class ability taking space in the skill line that nobody ever uses (Stonefist).

Stonefist should be changed like an usual execute. Deals X damage and increased to 300% damage against low health targets. Its base range should be melee.
Magicka Morph (Obsidian Shard) - Increased range and base damage changed to Fire.
Stamina Morph (Stone Fist) - Deals Physical damage and gives minor ward for 10 seconds after finishing an enemy.

Please Lets keep this thread serious, no flaming trolling or hate this is just a suggestion.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Sorry as much as DKs want more stamina Wrobel said no cause of the weapon skills and DKs are never getting a execute again cause he doesn't want all classes to be the same yet the other 3 have executes.

RoyJade · February 2016

I highly prefer a "execute" function on DK's dots, with passive. Like a 50% boost to all (fire, ardent flame?) dots when the enemy's life is low. Less burst but more pressure, and a unique execute ability.

BuggeX · February 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

I highly prefer a "execute" function on DK's dots, with passive. Like a 50% boost to all (fire, ardent flame?) dots when the enemy's life is low. Less burst but more pressure, and a unique execute ability.

thats wath i said in many threads, "world in Flames" would be the best passive for this, any flame dmg should deal more dmg if the target is under the 25-30%, but there has to be some other functions,

1# unstable flame execute has to be removed
2# the more flame dots are on the target the less Bonus dmg you get

BEZDNA · February 2016

DK is my main and most favorite class, i've been playing dk since better and still love them to the bottom of my heart.

When i think about DK class in general, there are only 2 things i'm dreaming about:

1. DK class execute
2. Be able to pull players from keep walls down with chain pull like back in the days.

These topic is dedicated to my first dream so i'll share my thoughts about it here. I've been thinking on implementing class excite for a long time and here what i came up with.

Fist of all i want to say that in my opinion best way to implement a class execute ability for Dragon Knights will be completely reworking such ability as Inferno and its morphs - that is last skill in Arden Flame skill line. And there are several reasons for it.

First reason is a skill line physiology and passives. Having class execute in Arden Flame skill line would make perfect synergy with passives that skill line provides, also synergizing with molten whip bonus and fire type of damage.

So what do we get here. Having Class Execute in Arden Flame Skill line will let it be fire damage - i hope for a cool Visual Efect here

If you go for more dps slotting Molten whip would also buff execute damage. Execute will get benefit from Warmth passive, If execute ability will be channeled it could benefit from Searing Hit passive, if it will do some aoe damage it will get benefit from World in Flame. It even can be somehow connected to the burning mechanic and get benefit from Kindling passive. There is plenty of space for imagination, Zenimax please use it, it's all yours!

One remark here. Skill line passives and philosophy is the reason why i think that class execute shouldn't be placed in Earthen Heart skill line. That skill line if more about utility and defensive playstyle. That's why i don't think that such skills as stonefist and molten weapons should have execute mechanic.

Second reason is quite simple. Inferno is a bad skill overall and should be changed, Zenimax did it wrong on the first attempt and they really need to consider completely removing that skill and replacing with something worth using.

It is obvious that with release of 1.6 inferno was changes into quite week skill and with the upcoming changes in Thiefs Guild that skill will becomes even more useless. It used to be super powerfully skill back in the days - you scarified you sustain to get 30% spell crit. That skill was very hard to manage for majority of players, but those who could master it were taking full advantage from that skill which had perfect synergy with dynamic ultimate regeneration and battle roar passive. I understand that old inferno skill wasn't that popular among players, because it was hard to use and with the implementation of major/minor buff system that skill was completely changed. But that change was very bad, Templars got an execute for an ability which was completely reworked and DK's get shirty toggle. But that changed wasn't that bad, even as a toggle skill you could use it in some builds and get about 800-2k passive dps on single target, which is not that great, but at list something and we had some kind of execute implemented in Molten Armaments. With the upcoming changes in Thief's Guild we do lose our execute from Molten Armaments (which was really bad implementation in my opinion) and Inferno is becoming a skill with damage/healing on activation. I have nothing to say here, it is clearly that these skill is becoming even more useless and i feel bad for the way Zenimax changed it. We don't need one more damage over time ability - we already have Searing Strike, Fiery Breath, Volatile Armor and Burning Talons. And we definitely don't need one more weak healing ability - we already have Burning Embers, Dragon Blood, Inhale and Obsidian Shard. PLEASE NO, STOP IT. GIVE US EXECUTE INSTEAD OF INFERNO!

Destruent · February 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

I highly prefer a "execute" function on DK's dots, with passive. Like a 50% boost to all (fire, ardent flame?) dots when the enemy's life is low. Less burst but more pressure, and a unique execute ability.

This is not unique, it's same as in the dual wield skillline ;-)

reagarding execute...if it's stronger than whip, DKs will pull far ahead in terms of PvE-DPS, if it's not as strong as whip noone will use it. And i doubt they will ever make a classability only for stamina...

btw. those DKs i play with don't have an identity-crisis...the reason must be something else ;-)

Mumyo · February 2016

Kaendor wrote: »

After seeing the changes in the PTS, and testing for quite a while it is pretty obvious that Stamina builds are getting the short hand of the stick. For DKs a buff to magicka DKs was needed, but stamina DKs still suffer from a pretty bad identity crisis and will continue suffering from it after this DLC releases if something doesn't change. At the moment stamina DKs use only 2 and in some cases 3 class abilities.

Some things should change, I do agree that DKs need a stamina morph for whip for a bit of burst damage, whip hits like a wet noodle unless you are a magicka build with loads of spell damage.

I had this Idea for quite a long time, and I was hoping that something like this would be implemented in this patch but I guess I have to voice this to at least give this a chance to happen. So to go to my point, after this patch DKs will no longer have a finisher/execute like ability, instead another timed buff. There are some DK abilitties that not even magicka builds touch, one of them is Stonefist...that ability is almost non-existant becasue nobody uses it. What I would suggest is to change Stonefist into something useful, something that the DK class lacks: An Execute.
NB has Assassin's Blade.
Sorc has Mages fury.
Temps have Radiant destruction.

Sure there will be people telling DKs to just use Executioner form the 2h skill line, but that execute is locked for two handed weapons only, it is not class wide like the other classes, in part it is one f the causes for stamina DK's to be just another weapon's master generic class/build.
Of course a class execute would give something to both magicka and stamina builds, but it would help with the current identity crisis DKs have, it would help the class in general rather than having a class ability taking space in the skill line that nobody ever uses (Stonefist).

Stonefist should be changed like an usual execute. Deals X damage and increased to 300% damage against low health targets. Its base range should be melee.
Magicka Morph (Obsidian Shard) - Increased range and base damage changed to Fire.
Stamina Morph (Stone Fist) - Deals Physical damage and gives minor ward for 10 seconds after finishing an enemy.

Please Lets keep this thread serious, no flaming trolling or hate this is just a suggestion.

I think the whole point of playing a staminabuild makes it going away from magic and use weapons as weaponabilities.
Even stamina morphs were a big mistake. Of course u use only a few classabilities and passives and mostly rely on the weapons... I mean isnt that the whole point?

Tdroid · February 2016

Mumyo wrote: »

Kaendor wrote: »

After seeing the changes in the PTS, and testing for quite a while it is pretty obvious that Stamina builds are getting the short hand of the stick. For DKs a buff to magicka DKs was needed, but stamina DKs still suffer from a pretty bad identity crisis and will continue suffering from it after this DLC releases if something doesn't change. At the moment stamina DKs use only 2 and in some cases 3 class abilities.

Some things should change, I do agree that DKs need a stamina morph for whip for a bit of burst damage, whip hits like a wet noodle unless you are a magicka build with loads of spell damage.

I had this Idea for quite a long time, and I was hoping that something like this would be implemented in this patch but I guess I have to voice this to at least give this a chance to happen. So to go to my point, after this patch DKs will no longer have a finisher/execute like ability, instead another timed buff. There are some DK abilitties that not even magicka builds touch, one of them is Stonefist...that ability is almost non-existant becasue nobody uses it. What I would suggest is to change Stonefist into something useful, something that the DK class lacks: An Execute.
NB has Assassin's Blade.
Sorc has Mages fury.
Temps have Radiant destruction.

Sure there will be people telling DKs to just use Executioner form the 2h skill line, but that execute is locked for two handed weapons only, it is not class wide like the other classes, in part it is one f the causes for stamina DK's to be just another weapon's master generic class/build.
Of course a class execute would give something to both magicka and stamina builds, but it would help with the current identity crisis DKs have, it would help the class in general rather than having a class ability taking space in the skill line that nobody ever uses (Stonefist).

Stonefist should be changed like an usual execute. Deals X damage and increased to 300% damage against low health targets. Its base range should be melee.
Magicka Morph (Obsidian Shard) - Increased range and base damage changed to Fire.
Stamina Morph (Stone Fist) - Deals Physical damage and gives minor ward for 10 seconds after finishing an enemy.

Please Lets keep this thread serious, no flaming trolling or hate this is just a suggestion.

I think the whole point of playing a staminabuild makes it going away from magic and use weapons as weaponabilities.
Even stamina morphs were a big mistake. Of course u use only a few classabilities and passives and mostly rely on the weapons... I mean isnt that the whole point?

In principle I don't necessarily disagree, but then stamina based weapon and armor skills should be boosted and given all the tools necessary to cover the stuff class abilities grant. Especially on useful defensive buffs. Immovable, for example, has too short a duration on its armor/spell resist buff(CC immunity duration is fine) to be generally more useful than, say, Spiked Armor. Or it is too expensive for the buff and the extra cost of having to slot a heavy armor piece. Armor/non-class skills also needs Major Expedition and ideally a heal of sorts so not everyone just uses 2handed. And by a heal I mean a heal more accessible than Vigor.

Or, if you're the type to think that stamina classes shouldn't have heals since that is a magic thing in TES lore, then they have to be given damage mitigation on a level that makes up for not having a heal.

Or, as a possible suggestion, why not add a more pure warrior class, whose class abilities focus on self-buffing and improving stamina weapon skills?

bertenburnyb16_ESO · February 2016

nice suggestion,
current version of stone fist and morphs is pretty useless

Mumyo · February 2016

Tdroid wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Kaendor wrote: »

After seeing the changes in the PTS, and testing for quite a while it is pretty obvious that Stamina builds are getting the short hand of the stick. For DKs a buff to magicka DKs was needed, but stamina DKs still suffer from a pretty bad identity crisis and will continue suffering from it after this DLC releases if something doesn't change. At the moment stamina DKs use only 2 and in some cases 3 class abilities.

Some things should change, I do agree that DKs need a stamina morph for whip for a bit of burst damage, whip hits like a wet noodle unless you are a magicka build with loads of spell damage.

I had this Idea for quite a long time, and I was hoping that something like this would be implemented in this patch but I guess I have to voice this to at least give this a chance to happen. So to go to my point, after this patch DKs will no longer have a finisher/execute like ability, instead another timed buff. There are some DK abilitties that not even magicka builds touch, one of them is Stonefist...that ability is almost non-existant becasue nobody uses it. What I would suggest is to change Stonefist into something useful, something that the DK class lacks: An Execute.
NB has Assassin's Blade.
Sorc has Mages fury.
Temps have Radiant destruction.

Sure there will be people telling DKs to just use Executioner form the 2h skill line, but that execute is locked for two handed weapons only, it is not class wide like the other classes, in part it is one f the causes for stamina DK's to be just another weapon's master generic class/build.
Of course a class execute would give something to both magicka and stamina builds, but it would help with the current identity crisis DKs have, it would help the class in general rather than having a class ability taking space in the skill line that nobody ever uses (Stonefist).

Stonefist should be changed like an usual execute. Deals X damage and increased to 300% damage against low health targets. Its base range should be melee.
Magicka Morph (Obsidian Shard) - Increased range and base damage changed to Fire.
Stamina Morph (Stone Fist) - Deals Physical damage and gives minor ward for 10 seconds after finishing an enemy.

Please Lets keep this thread serious, no flaming trolling or hate this is just a suggestion.

I think the whole point of playing a staminabuild makes it going away from magic and use weapons as weaponabilities.
Even stamina morphs were a big mistake. Of course u use only a few classabilities and passives and mostly rely on the weapons... I mean isnt that the whole point?

In principle I don't necessarily disagree, but then stamina based weapon and armor skills should be boosted and given all the tools necessary to cover the stuff class abilities grant. Especially on useful defensive buffs. Immovable, for example, has too short a duration on its armor/spell resist buff(CC immunity duration is fine) to be generally more useful than, say, Spiked Armor. Or it is too expensive for the buff and the extra cost of having to slot a heavy armor piece. Armor/non-class skills also needs Major Expedition and ideally a heal of sorts so not everyone just uses 2handed. And by a heal I mean a heal more accessible than Vigor.

Or, if you're the type to think that stamina classes shouldn't have heals since that is a magic thing in TES lore, then they have to be given damage mitigation on a level that makes up for not having a heal.

Or, as a possible suggestion, why not add a more pure warrior class, whose class abilities focus on self-buffing and improving stamina weapon skills?

Somewhere i read that they will readjust the weapons in the dark brotherhood dlc... so we have to wait another 3 months for anything in that direction.

xarguideb17_ESO · February 2016

Stone fist is cool in PVP and it gets cooler with the patch, range is boosted to 28m.
It's a good spammable range ability and you get stamina back while spamming it.
As a magicka DK I use it. Beats fossilize just because it is spammable. Every hit does damage and returns stamina. Fossilize just does nothing AND costs magicka if target is CC immune.
Wrobel was pretty clear about DK not getting execute - "it is more interesting this way". :-D
If DK did get an execute, inferno or a morph of whip would be the best candidate for replacement. Whip would need to be tuned in such a way though, that it wouldn't give a greater DPS advantage in PVE. 30k DPS DK-s are a thing already in PVE...