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Rofl at the Vicious Death Set..
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?HoloYoitsu wrote: »Why are we arguing about this?
The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.
Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.
The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.
Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?
You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool
Yeah, just go in 1 by 1, its not like there will be 20 guys all hitting the exact same person while other poor oil on them.
Solid strategy mate
well if there are 20man in the breach waiting for you - you made two mistakes:
mindlessly run into it and
not clearing the breach with your siege
so do not blame others for your failures.
Mindlessly running into it is what the people in here are recommending, because if you don't mindlessly run into it, that means you're pushing through in a coordinated effort with other players, in which case, you are 'balling up' and not spreading out.
Not clearing the breach with your siege? Are you on something? Give me one example where that has ever worked. Most enemies waiting at the breach will wait on the stairs out of LoS, or just past the breach out of range or still out of LoS. Anyone that does die on the breach can easily be rezzed up from safe locations. It's one thing to put siege on the breach to pressure it, it's entirely another, and bananas, to act like you can just wipe out the entire defending force on the breach with a fire treb. If we're going to try and have an argument let's at least be realistic.2 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Because it's not like the raid will sit in the cubby to the side safe from siege.Septimus_Magna wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?HoloYoitsu wrote: »Why are we arguing about this?
The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.
Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.
The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.
Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?
You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool
Yeah, just go in 1 by 1, its not like there will be 20 guys all hitting the exact same person while other poor oil on them.
Solid strategy mate
well if there are 20man in the breach waiting for you - you made two mistakes:
mindlessly run into it and
not clearing the breach with your siege
so do not blame others for your failures.
As far as this discussion goes, saying it's easy enough for one person or a couple to get into the breach is irrelevant. The whole reason that's doable is precisely because the raids that defend breaches aren't going to concern themselves with a few individuals running inside, they are there to contest it vs other groups.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.0 -
HoloYoitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I am sorry, who was the one who came in here and made the completely erroneous claim that flag flipping only speeds up for up to 6 people and more than that does nothing? It sure wasn't me.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.
Literally anyone who has ever partaken in a keep fight without being a mindless pugling could point out how you are wrong.
I am not the one making absurd claims here, the burden of proof lies with you. Go record flipping a flag with 6 people and then record again taking a flag with 24.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thank god Xsorus is here. He never plays in a decent group but he's graciously decided to be an expert at it and tell us plebs how it's done.
Tells us more how you are going to quit because you can't Zerg around with 23 other people effectively. Because ya know... God forbid you can't play in a "decent" group.
So many reasons to quit this game at this point, but I'll still be trying out the patch and seeing how it goes. Still waiting to hear how you're anyone to speak on group play in the game
Other then the fact I actually ran in a group..unlike someone who ran in a zerg?
I think i'm way more qualified to speak on actual Group play
*grin*
After the game launched and well into the first year @Satiar ran one of the best small man groups on EP, so he is equally qualified to speak on "group" play.
I appreciate that, but he knows. He once called me a zergbad because I had 5 people in my small-man (thus making it a "large group").Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?HoloYoitsu wrote: »Why are we arguing about this?
The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.
Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.
The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.
Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?
You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool
Yeah, just go in 1 by 1, its not like there will be 20 guys all hitting the exact same person while other poor oil on them.
Solid strategy mate
well if there are 20man in the breach waiting for you - you made two mistakes:
mindlessly run into it and
not clearing the breach with your siege
so do not blame others for your failures.
Sorry but this is on the level of shooting Crystal Blast into 20 enemy players.
If the defenders know what they are doing they have healers running kagrenacs, purge, siege shields etc. There no way you will be able to clear the breach with a couple sieges. Even if you kill some off them they're instantly ressed by someone with kagrenacs.
Assuming I or anyone I group up with runs in mindlessly is also bad assumption.
Im done with this pointless discussion, everyone get your FOTM sets because thats what will happen every single update with these BS solutions to these balance issues.
Oh and dont forget to spread out guys!
PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I am sorry, who was the one who came in here and made the completely erroneous claim that flag flipping only speeds up for up to 6 people and more than that does nothing? It sure wasn't me.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.
Literally anyone who has ever partaken in a keep fight without being a mindless pugling could point out how you are wrong.
I am not the one making absurd claims here, the burden of proof lies with you. Go record flipping a flag with 6 people and then record again taking a flag with 24.
Proof, hmm? Okay, here you go:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1181085#Comment_1181085ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »A lot of these points should also be mentioned in the new combat threads
We are aware of the crashing issues and the team of engineers are working on fixes for them as fast as they can. Also note we have a cap of the amount of players that can influence a flag at 6 players since launch but that could always be adjusted if the rate of capture is seemingly too fast/slow.
Good enough?
/cigarEdited by Sharee on February 14, 2016 9:50PM3 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I am sorry, who was the one who came in here and made the completely erroneous claim that flag flipping only speeds up for up to 6 people and more than that does nothing? It sure wasn't me.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.
Literally anyone who has ever partaken in a keep fight without being a mindless pugling could point out how you are wrong.
I am not the one making absurd claims here, the burden of proof lies with you. Go record flipping a flag with 6 people and then record again taking a flag with 24.
Proof, hmm? Okay, here you go:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1181085#Comment_1181085ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »A lot of these points should also be mentioned in the new combat threads We are aware of the crashing issues and the team of engineers are working on fixes for them as fast as they can. Also note we have a cap of the amount of players that can influence a flag at 6 players since launch but that could always be adjusted if the rate of capture is seemingly too fast/slow.
Good enough?
/cigar
Yeah I always thought that this was capped at 6 people...would be easy to test if they had changed it without a note on it.Edited by Takllin on February 14, 2016 9:57PMJadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I am sorry, who was the one who came in here and made the completely erroneous claim that flag flipping only speeds up for up to 6 people and more than that does nothing? It sure wasn't me.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.
Literally anyone who has ever partaken in a keep fight without being a mindless pugling could point out how you are wrong.
I am not the one making absurd claims here, the burden of proof lies with you. Go record flipping a flag with 6 people and then record again taking a flag with 24.
Proof, hmm? Okay, here you go:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1181085#Comment_1181085ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »A lot of these points should also be mentioned in the new combat threads We are aware of the crashing issues and the team of engineers are working on fixes for them as fast as they can. Also note we have a cap of the amount of players that can influence a flag at 6 players since launch but that could always be adjusted if the rate of capture is seemingly too fast/slow.
Good enough?
/cigar
My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
- If you are solo capping a flag, you are taking an empty keep or you are fighting baddies, plain and simple - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Even in hectic keep assaults/defenses where keeping coms clear and only making high priority calls is paramount, my guys and scout/s (or myself if I'm scouting) will immediately call out when a flag is being flipped. No good player, nor group for that matter, will let you stand there and solo cap a flag.
- To continue on the previous point, sometimes even when you're outnumbered and have enemy siege on you and the odds don't look good, being able to quickly flip a flag (or contest it and turn it white) is crucial to success, and you can only do so by sending at least a decent sized group to do so. Most of the time if the fight is that heated, there are guards and/or players on the flags, so you need to send one more person for each opponent that's still alive on that flag to maintain the 6 person flip rate.
- Quoting ANYTHING from ZOS, particularly wrobel and/or wheeler as to how something is functioning in game is never proof. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen in the patch notes "Toppling charge is fixed" or "falling damage is fixed".
- People are still arguing from narrow experiences. I could link any number of videos of us having about 20 or so players and pushing into an inner where there are 60+ defenders, if you can still argue (and be both sane and logical) that those fights would go better if we split ourselves up and sent an elite 1-8 man to hit the flag, then your points will start to become valid. Until then, the pie in the sky, 'sounds good on paper', armchair raid leads speaking about things they in fact know little about need to take a seat.
I one-up your /cigar and will /colorado you.Edited by Zheg on February 14, 2016 11:43PM2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of the asinine comments I'm seeing are coming from people that likely play in off hours with low pop or against terribad players (which also holds true for wrobel's comments). I have one of the tankiest builds in pvp at the moment and there are keep fights where even I struggle to poke my head in the breach to scout. Anyone that's a serious pvper is rolling their eyes at xsorus' comments (which is par for the course). The next time people like xsorus can take a small man into chalman when there are 65 pact militia folks inside the inner, and then 'spread out', I'll maybe start to take them seriously. Till then, you're pure entertainment for those of us that actually know what the eff we're talking about.
What makes you think I should be able to take a small man into a 65 pact militia defended keep and live?
See this is what i'm talking about...You've never had to truly learn how to play the game and deal with these types of things because all you've managed to do is zerg around the whole time....The game has basically handed you free mitigation for so long that it never occurs to you that at no point should a small man be able to run into a fat zerg like that with the clearly seeing you coming and live...
Its not just this game either..That wouldn't of worked in DAOC or WAR as well...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
I am sorry, who was the one who came in here and made the completely erroneous claim that flag flipping only speeds up for up to 6 people and more than that does nothing? It sure wasn't me.HoloYoitsu wrote: »
Thank you for demonstrating that you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
One person can cap a flag. Adding more speeds up the process, but only up to six people, anything over that has no effect.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Ok, I'll break it down r-e-a-l simple. People are forced to stack to flip flags.
Hypothetical Scenario 1:
- Your happy 8 man is capping front flag. You are forced to stack for this, even if it's just measured in seconds.
If you disagree with something i said, state what exactly you do not agree with, and how it is according to you, so i can react.
Posting just generic insults like you did above does not move the discussion forward in any way.
Literally anyone who has ever partaken in a keep fight without being a mindless pugling could point out how you are wrong.
I am not the one making absurd claims here, the burden of proof lies with you. Go record flipping a flag with 6 people and then record again taking a flag with 24.
Proof, hmm? Okay, here you go:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1181085#Comment_1181085ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »A lot of these points should also be mentioned in the new combat threads We are aware of the crashing issues and the team of engineers are working on fixes for them as fast as they can. Also note we have a cap of the amount of players that can influence a flag at 6 players since launch but that could always be adjusted if the rate of capture is seemingly too fast/slow.
Good enough?
/cigar
My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
- If you are solo capping a flag, you are taking an empty keep or you are fighting baddies, plain and simple - no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Even in hectic keep assaults/defenses where keeping coms clear and only making high priority calls is paramount, my guys and scout/s (or myself if I'm scouting) will immediately call out when a flag is being flipped. No good player, nor group for that matter, will let you stand there and solo cap a flag.
- To continue on the previous point, sometimes even when you're outnumbered and have enemy siege on you and the odds don't look good, being able to quickly flip a flag (or contest it and turn it white) is crucial to success, and you can only do so by sending at least a decent sized group to do so. Most of the time if the fight is that heated, there are guards and/or players on the flags, so you need to send one more person for each opponent that's still alive on that flag to maintain the 6 person flip rate.
- Quoting ANYTHING from ZOS, particularly wrobel and/or wheeler as to how something is functioning in game is never proof. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen in the patch notes "Toppling charge is fixed" or "falling damage is fixed".
- People are still arguing from narrow experiences. I could link any number of videos of us having about 20 or so players and pushing into an inner where there are 60+ defenders, if you can still argue (and be both sane and logical) that those fights would go better if we split ourselves up and sent an elite 1-8 man to hit the flag, then your points will start to become valid. Until then, the pie in the sky, 'sounds good on paper', armchair raid leads speaking about things they in fact know little about need to take a seat.
I one-up your /cigar and will /colorado you.
So you agree with him that only 6 people are needed on a flag to cap it?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Most of the asinine comments I'm seeing are coming from people that likely play in off hours with low pop or against terribad players (which also holds true for wrobel's comments). I have one of the tankiest builds in pvp at the moment and there are keep fights where even I struggle to poke my head in the breach to scout. Anyone that's a serious pvper is rolling their eyes at xsorus' comments (which is par for the course). The next time people like xsorus can take a small man into chalman when there are 65 pact militia folks inside the inner, and then 'spread out', I'll maybe start to take them seriously. Till then, you're pure entertainment for those of us that actually know what the eff we're talking about.
What makes you think I should be able to take a small man into a 65 pact militia defended keep and live?
See this is what i'm talking about...You've never had to truly learn how to play the game and deal with these types of things because all you've managed to do is zerg around the whole time....The game has basically handed you free mitigation for so long that it never occurs to you that at no point should a small man be able to run into a fat zerg like that with the clearly seeing you coming and live...
Its not just this game either..That wouldn't of worked in DAOC or WAR as well...
I wiped 35+ of them last night with 11, but yeah, I don't know how to play the game because all I've managed to do is zerg around the whole time, including all of the times I 1vX on my templar, or spent months in groups of 2-4. The game has basically handed me free knowledge through experience for so long that it occurs to me that you at no point know what you're talking about.
But, hear that guys? The small man can win, the enemy just can't see them coming! So next time there's an inner breach, you know, just make sure they don't see you coming inside! We should all try to crouch up and walk through next time, thanks for the advice brah. Oh, and this one time, at band camp DAOC ...Edited by Zheg on February 15, 2016 1:45AM2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of the asinine comments I'm seeing are coming from people that likely play in off hours with low pop or against terribad players (which also holds true for wrobel's comments). I have one of the tankiest builds in pvp at the moment and there are keep fights where even I struggle to poke my head in the breach to scout. Anyone that's a serious pvper is rolling their eyes at xsorus' comments (which is par for the course). The next time people like xsorus can take a small man into chalman when there are 65 pact militia folks inside the inner, and then 'spread out', I'll maybe start to take them seriously. Till then, you're pure entertainment for those of us that actually know what the eff we're talking about.
What makes you think I should be able to take a small man into a 65 pact militia defended keep and live?
See this is what i'm talking about...You've never had to truly learn how to play the game and deal with these types of things because all you've managed to do is zerg around the whole time....The game has basically handed you free mitigation for so long that it never occurs to you that at no point should a small man be able to run into a fat zerg like that with the clearly seeing you coming and live...
Its not just this game either..That wouldn't of worked in DAOC or WAR as well...
I wiped 35+ of them last night with 11, but yeah, I don't know how to play the game because all I've managed to do is zerg around the whole time, including all of the times I 1vX on my templar, or spent months in groups of 2-4. The game has basically handed me free knowledge through experience for so long that it occurs to me that you at no point know what you're talking about.
But, hear that guys? The small man can win, the enemy just can't see them coming! So next time there's an inner breach, you know, just make sure they don't see you coming inside! We should all try to crouch up and walk through next time, thanks for the advice brah.
I don't view 11 as a small man...When I say Small Man I mean ya know..4 people...
11 People could easily take 35 if they know what they're doing.
Hell 8 people could do it.
i do find it funny ya think 11 people is a small man though..Shows the type of thinking we're dealing with here.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos6 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe instead of cyrodiil you should be investing your time in a padded room?
I'd suggest you do the same..but I doubt you could fit 24 people in one.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos12 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And this, wheeler, is the kind of guy whose feedback you're listening to. Bravo.Edited by Zheg on February 15, 2016 1:53AM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.
The new set will do a lot of things, including driving a majority of players to magicka. The numbers for this one set and prox det are insanely high on PTS; the only way to mitigate the damage is to force the playerbase to go magicka and run shields. Furthermore, in addition to an OP 5 piece bonus, the set's 2-4 piece bonuses are so good that you will literally be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't run this set. It will (at the same time) drive players to a magicka heavy meta not seen since the early ESO days, and further wedge players into cookie cutter builds through clear best in slot gear choices. The fact that wrobel is trying to balance group size play with a set instead of mechanics should be indicative enough of why this will end up failing, the insanely high damage numbers coming in the next patch should be indicative, and the obvious shift to a magicka meta should be the final nail in the coffin. I can't see how people continue to support a set like that with all of the drawbacks, in place of wrobel being forced to fix issues via mechanics and tweaks to skills, but alas, clearly people are not going to agree.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.
The new set will do a lot of things, including driving a majority of players to magicka. The numbers for this one set and prox det are insanely high on PTS; the only way to mitigate the damage is to force the playerbase to go magicka and run shields. Furthermore, in addition to an OP 5 piece bonus, the set's 2-4 piece bonuses are so good that you will literally be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't run this set. It will (at the same time) drive players to a magicka heavy meta not seen since the early ESO days, and further wedge players into cookie cutter builds through clear best in slot gear choices. The fact that wrobel is trying to balance group size play with a set instead of mechanics should be indicative enough of why this will end up failing, the insanely high damage numbers coming in the next patch should be indicative, and the obvious shift to a magicka meta should be the final nail in the coffin. I can't see how people continue to support a set like that with all of the drawbacks, in place of wrobel being forced to fix issues via mechanics and tweaks to skills, but alas, clearly people are not going to agree.
Insanely high only if used on a player stack. If the enemies are not within 5m(IIRC) range, then the 5-piece bonus will do nothing. For perspective, my DK's whip has a 7m range, so 5m is a very tight stack
You consider this set a must-have because your mind is still set on the current 'stack on a dime' meta. But once the meta has changed to 'spread out on contact with enemy'(as is likely with the existence of this set, along with it's perceived popularity), your 5-piece will be useless.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Wow that´s the first time i´ve spat my coffee out reading the forums in the morning. I applause you good sir!<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.
The new set will do a lot of things, including driving a majority of players to magicka. The numbers for this one set and prox det are insanely high on PTS; the only way to mitigate the damage is to force the playerbase to go magicka and run shields. Furthermore, in addition to an OP 5 piece bonus, the set's 2-4 piece bonuses are so good that you will literally be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't run this set. It will (at the same time) drive players to a magicka heavy meta not seen since the early ESO days, and further wedge players into cookie cutter builds through clear best in slot gear choices. The fact that wrobel is trying to balance group size play with a set instead of mechanics should be indicative enough of why this will end up failing, the insanely high damage numbers coming in the next patch should be indicative, and the obvious shift to a magicka meta should be the final nail in the coffin. I can't see how people continue to support a set like that with all of the drawbacks, in place of wrobel being forced to fix issues via mechanics and tweaks to skills, but alas, clearly people are not going to agree.
Thats why you have to join team FENGRUSH and drop
with us. 2 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.
The new set will do a lot of things, including driving a majority of players to magicka. The numbers for this one set and prox det are insanely high on PTS; the only way to mitigate the damage is to force the playerbase to go magicka and run shields. Furthermore, in addition to an OP 5 piece bonus, the set's 2-4 piece bonuses are so good that you will literally be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't run this set. It will (at the same time) drive players to a magicka heavy meta not seen since the early ESO days, and further wedge players into cookie cutter builds through clear best in slot gear choices. The fact that wrobel is trying to balance group size play with a set instead of mechanics should be indicative enough of why this will end up failing, the insanely high damage numbers coming in the next patch should be indicative, and the obvious shift to a magicka meta should be the final nail in the coffin. I can't see how people continue to support a set like that with all of the drawbacks, in place of wrobel being forced to fix issues via mechanics and tweaks to skills, but alas, clearly people are not going to agree.
You see; this is a valid point. These changes are going to push people into the magicka meta. Stamina has nothing remotely comparable to prox and VD set
As for why people support this option over wrobel fixing it via aoe cap removal.. It's real simple.. They've came out and said they are not going to remove caps because wrobel is frankly clueless when it comes to pvp
So this is basically the best option for now till they replace him with someone who's competent.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most of the asinine comments I'm seeing are coming from people that likely play in off hours with low pop or against terribad players (which also holds true for wrobel's comments). I have one of the tankiest builds in pvp at the moment and there are keep fights where even I struggle to poke my head in the breach to scout. Anyone that's a serious pvper is rolling their eyes at xsorus' comments (which is par for the course). The next time people like xsorus can take a small man into chalman when there are 65 pact militia folks inside the inner, and then 'spread out', I'll maybe start to take them seriously. Till then, you're pure entertainment for those of us that actually know what the eff we're talking about.
What makes you think I should be able to take a small man into a 65 pact militia defended keep and live?
See this is what i'm talking about...You've never had to truly learn how to play the game and deal with these types of things because all you've managed to do is zerg around the whole time....The game has basically handed you free mitigation for so long that it never occurs to you that at no point should a small man be able to run into a fat zerg like that with the clearly seeing you coming and live...
Its not just this game either..That wouldn't of worked in DAOC or WAR as well...
I wiped 35+ of them last night with 11, but yeah, I don't know how to play the game because all I've managed to do is zerg around the whole time, including all of the times I 1vX on my templar, or spent months in groups of 2-4. The game has basically handed me free knowledge through experience for so long that it occurs to me that you at no point know what you're talking about.
But, hear that guys? The small man can win, the enemy just can't see them coming! So next time there's an inner breach, you know, just make sure they don't see you coming inside! We should all try to crouch up and walk through next time, thanks for the advice brah.
I don't view 11 as a small man...When I say Small Man I mean ya know..4 people...
11 People could easily take 35 if they know what they're doing.
Hell 8 people could do it.
i do find it funny ya think 11 people is a small man though..Shows the type of thinking we're dealing with here.
Thus guy cant be serious. Stop responding to him Zheg.
You are a well know respected player. Dont even know who he is he is so off the raidar. Keep taking keeps and winning campaigns.
let him focus on resources and 4 v 1 ganking reinforcements. thats where the skill is at yo.3 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭And this, wheeler, is the kind of guy whose feedback you're listening to. Bravo.
still better than listen to yours...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭REMOVE
Edited by Soulac on February 15, 2016 12:20PMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -7 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Remove, let us bomb and annihilate them zergs properly for the games sake. Susano'o
Zerg Squad0 -
SkylarkAU✭✭✭✭My understanding is that it maxed at 6 as well, HOWEVER, harumph, hrmm, ahem:- As soon as an enemy player stands in the flag radius (or one of the guards), they counteract one of your allies standing on your flag at a 1-to-1 ratio. This means if a flag is white and a yellow and a blue stand on it, the flag will remain white until one of them dies or the scales tip and an npc/player joins the flag radius
That's why you kill them first, then cap the flag.
Of course, up until now, "you have to stack on the flag to cap it" was a true statement. Not because more than six players would be needed to cap it, but because enemy ball group was stacking on it, and the only way to kill them was to do the same. A stacked ball zerg is/was immune to anything and everything except another ball zerg standing on top of it. Which lead to this stupid gameplay of "stand still and spam aoe until one side dies" that kills the server.
But if what you say is true - namely that this new set makes stacking on flag impossible - then not only can't you stack on flag, the enemy can't either! And if one side cannot stack on flag, it means the other side is not forced to do the same. The set not only makes stacking on flag impossible, it also makes it unnecessary.
Which is allright in my book.
The new set will do a lot of things, including driving a majority of players to magicka. The numbers for this one set and prox det are insanely high on PTS; the only way to mitigate the damage is to force the playerbase to go magicka and run shields. Furthermore, in addition to an OP 5 piece bonus, the set's 2-4 piece bonuses are so good that you will literally be shooting yourself in the foot if you don't run this set. It will (at the same time) drive players to a magicka heavy meta not seen since the early ESO days, and further wedge players into cookie cutter builds through clear best in slot gear choices. The fact that wrobel is trying to balance group size play with a set instead of mechanics should be indicative enough of why this will end up failing, the insanely high damage numbers coming in the next patch should be indicative, and the obvious shift to a magicka meta should be the final nail in the coffin. I can't see how people continue to support a set like that with all of the drawbacks, in place of wrobel being forced to fix issues via mechanics and tweaks to skills, but alas, clearly people are not going to agree.
You see; this is a valid point. These changes are going to push people into the magicka meta. Stamina has nothing remotely comparable to prox and VD set
As for why people support this option over wrobel fixing it via aoe cap removal.. It's real simple.. They've came out and said they are not going to remove caps because wrobel is frankly clueless when it comes to pvp
So this is basically the best option for now till they replace him with someone who's competent.
Little do they know the age of bow users is upon us
Skylärk // v16 Stamina DK (AvA 23)
Elizabeth Skylark // v16 Magicka Sorc (AvA 29)
Tauriel Skylark // v16 Stamina NB (AvA 12)
Alexander Skylark // v2 Magicka Templar
Terra Australis XI // v2 Magicka DK
Nocturnal | RÀGE
<< PC/NA/AD >>
Youtube0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Thats why you have to join team FENGRUSH and drop with us.
If you adopt a simultaneous balancing of aoe dmg numbers, I'll adopt the aoe cap picket. I still maintain that removing the caps without tweaking the numbers slightly is asking for trouble. I see a very likely scenario where wrobel eventually removes aoe caps on top of all of the current numbers, and from just basic testing on PTS it's clear that numbers are way too high for healthy game play. I don't think people on here realize how often during keep fights they're within 5m for vicious death or within range of other targets (guards/pets/dwemers/players) when prox dets go off, even if it doesn't look like you're stacking on screen.0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I did more PTS testing last night, still very dubious of this set. Burst damage just way too high, even on people properly geared and specced into the right CP trees.
It hits harder than an empowered Shooting Star.
I don't think people realize what they're getting into here. Im going to adapt, my guild will be less reckless, run more defensive, etc. But I really think most of the people who think this is cool don't get how stupid it's going to be. I may die by this set but I (and every other guild on the server) will have every DPS character outfitted in this set, and I think we're going to see a major backlash on it.
Everyone thinks it's cool until you start exploding when that guy who just walked by you died and blew you up for 15-20k fire damage. It's turning every friendly player into a potential land mine.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost2
This discussion has been closed.