Rofl at the Vicious Death Set..

Xsorus · February 2016

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

Shadowbane had stacking also

Sanct16 · February 2016

@Zheg

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

In a small group you cant afford to lose people anyway.

Zheg · February 2016

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Zheg

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

In a small group you cant afford to lose people anyway.

Not really sure what your point is? If you're pointing out pox's post, most of those games had balling up, including gw2 that went through a 6 month long phase where stacking up and turtling in one small spot was the meta. Rose colored glasses and all that maybe?

We spent a solid 2 hours last night fighting 3+ raids of reds (and yes, I can count, there actually were that many) and when you're that outnumbered you can't afford to lose people either. The problem that so many here seem to have tunnel vision on is that while some of these poorly thought out changes help smaller groups get more kills, they aren't 'just' helping smaller groups and in some cases are more beneficial to the people running 3+ raids. Call me crazy, but I would have preferred changes that help only small groups, and I would have preferred them to actually require a modest element of skill - rather than stack dmg (like every other solution in ESO), stand back and drop meteor and hope that you get a kill with instant 12-20k fire dmg from an easy mode set. I'm going to be running fasallas guile next patch because the set is easy mode, silly, and it's going to become part of the meta. Sets like that just further make healing and templars obsolete and shield stacking that much stronger, but hey, I can actually admit when a set is easy mode and not balanced. I don't understand why critical thinking is such a difficult concept when it comes to balance. When changes help both small groups and gigantic zergs, are they actually good changes? Particularly given the nature and personality of most ESO pvpers and how likely they are to just double or triple their numbers as a solution, and especially since that equates to more lag? I very rarely see an 8-12 man group take on 60+, and in fact, most of the time the 'elite smallmans' that people like to self advertise in here are embedded into that gigantic horde. Maybe that's why people are so happy?

In the next patch, everyone will have rank 10 rez capabilities and embrace the zombie horde, everyone can stand back at range and do high aoe dmg without actually putting themselves at risk (whether siege or inev det and meteor), and assaulting a keep will require far more numbers than are presently needed. Remind me, again, why these are good things? Anyway, the patch is already a thing, and anything that's broken won't be changed for another 6+ months, so anything I say is too little too late. Half baked balance ideas here we come!

FENGRUSH · February 2016

Id say we covered this the last We Are ESO podcast - both the ressing and issues with this being a poor solution.

But like I said before, ZOS seems unwilling to discuss AOE caps despite saying they are willing to discuss AOE caps. We have no idea why we have armor sets that are the solution or single skills like prox det which have empowered the type of groups you are refering to @Zheg in the middle area and yet currently do very little for the smaller scale groups.

Seems the numbers issue always comes back to AOE caps honestly. You can bring the AOE caps riot sign to ESO Live and get timed out by Kai or continue to make posts here - not sure anything is making a dent at this point. If things get too bad maybe they will change Guard skill to negate 70% of AOE damage in the area for all allies and we will be right back to where we are on live once enough people get slaughtered in mass by the current set + prox det changes.

Rainingblood · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

In general, of course skill factors come into play, but being vastly outnumbered should make your chances of survival incredibly hard. The fact that you guys win as many as you do is a testament to the coordination and skill you have.

Actually, there is no skill when it comes to PvP in this game. Unless the skill is knowing how to exploit game mechanics.

Hahaha, go duel one of the streamers, you wont last 10 seconds. They dont exploit the game's mechanics, they know how these mechanics work and apply them correctly.

Regarding the spreading out tactic, this only works if you have more numbers. The smaller group will have trouble killing everyone because the ones who survive can simply res their allies in 1-2 seconds. When fighting bigger groups the worst thing you can do is spread out, you dont want to get singled out and all the dmg/heals/ultities skills need to be coordinated to be as effective as possible.

Lol at "streamers". I guess it depends on how you define exploiting game mechanics.

And dueling.. Yeah they tend to be good at that b/c a lot of them hail from fps games and that's all they do/want to do. I don't see how me dueling them changes the skill required to PvP in this game...

GRxKnight · February 2016

I think those that are opposed to this set need to get over it and move on. There's not a whole lot you can do about it now except play the game (or don't, quit like a lot of people have said they would do) and watch the meta shift from steel tornado to proxy/inevitable meteor bombs.

This isn't a fix and I haven't said that once...that being said there are now repercussions for stacking close together and that's how it should have been since the beginning

FENGRUSH · February 2016

GRxKnight wrote: »

I think those that are opposed to this set need to get over it and move on. There's not a whole lot you can do about it now except play the game (or don't, quit like a lot of people have said they would do) and watch the meta shift from steel tornado to proxy/inevitable meteor bombs.

This isn't a fix and I haven't said that once...that being said there are now repercussions for stacking close together and that's how it should have been since the beginning

This is the truth. ZOS has shown once they put something on the PTS its not getting removed or reverted - they dont go back. They wont even do that on the next incremental. They will simply add something more on top of it to 'alleviate the problem'.

Poxheart · February 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

Shadowbane had stacking also

Never played that game, but I'll take your word for it.

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Zheg

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

In a small group you cant afford to lose people anyway.

Which potentially makes this set all the more detrimental to small scale.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Rainingblood wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

In general, of course skill factors come into play, but being vastly outnumbered should make your chances of survival incredibly hard. The fact that you guys win as many as you do is a testament to the coordination and skill you have.

Actually, there is no skill when it comes to PvP in this game. Unless the skill is knowing how to exploit game mechanics.

Hahaha, go duel one of the streamers, you wont last 10 seconds. They dont exploit the game's mechanics, they know how these mechanics work and apply them correctly.

Regarding the spreading out tactic, this only works if you have more numbers. The smaller group will have trouble killing everyone because the ones who survive can simply res their allies in 1-2 seconds. When fighting bigger groups the worst thing you can do is spread out, you dont want to get singled out and all the dmg/heals/ultities skills need to be coordinated to be as effective as possible.

Lol at "streamers". I guess it depends on how you define exploiting game mechanics.

And dueling.. Yeah they tend to be good at that b/c a lot of them hail from fps games and that's all they do/want to do. I don't see how me dueling them changes the skill required to PvP in this game...

You said there is no skill required in pvp and everyone who is good is exploiting the game's mechanics.
I mentioned streamer because you can check their videos to see they're not using exploits.

If pvp didnt require skill the biggest group would always will which is definitely not the case. Group coordination is probably the most important thing in large pvp battles and this requires a lot of skill, especially from the one leading.

Rylana · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

In general, of course skill factors come into play, but being vastly outnumbered should make your chances of survival incredibly hard. The fact that you guys win as many as you do is a testament to the coordination and skill you have.

Actually, there is no skill when it comes to PvP in this game. Unless the skill is knowing how to exploit game mechanics.

Hahaha, go duel one of the streamers, you wont last 10 seconds. They dont exploit the game's mechanics, they know how these mechanics work and apply them correctly.

Regarding the spreading out tactic, this only works if you have more numbers. The smaller group will have trouble killing everyone because the ones who survive can simply res their allies in 1-2 seconds. When fighting bigger groups the worst thing you can do is spread out, you dont want to get singled out and all the dmg/heals/ultities skills need to be coordinated to be as effective as possible.

Lol at "streamers". I guess it depends on how you define exploiting game mechanics.

And dueling.. Yeah they tend to be good at that b/c a lot of them hail from fps games and that's all they do/want to do. I don't see how me dueling them changes the skill required to PvP in this game...

You said there is no skill required in pvp and everyone who is good is exploiting the game's mechanics.
I mentioned streamer because you can check their videos to see they're not using exploits.

If pvp didnt require skill the biggest group would always will which is definitely not the case. Group coordination is probably the most important thing in large pvp battles and this requires a lot of skill, especially from the one leading.

In my personal opinion the only skill required to play this game is putting oneself in the right spot at the right time and then just mashing a couple buttons to achieve a result.

Ergo, the most skilled players are those that move a lot.

Erondil · February 2016

Poxheart wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

Shadowbane had stacking also

Never played that game, but I'll take your word for it.

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Zheg

Poxheart wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

DAOC had AOE stun and mez that lasted for upwards of a minute. That and stacked aoes were a major deterrant to stacking. WAR had collision detection and aoe pulls (Magus/Engie) and nasty AOE dps which were also deterrants to stacking. Those are just two examples of mmos which made it far from sensible to ball up. In fact main all of the pvp focussed mmos I've played over the years (UO, Shadowbane, DAOC, EQ2, Rift, Archage, Darkfall, GW2 etc) this is the only mmos I've played that via its aoe cap and other mechanisms actively encourages players to all stand on the crown in a tight ball like this.

Unless something has changed with the game, GW2 is where stacking began because it also has (had?) AOE caps. If you google you can probably find videos of the stacking (especially because of the Mesmer portal).

On the topic of this armor set, the people who think this is somehow going to improve the chances of small groups against large groups haven't considered that the large groups will probably run this set too, which will punish the small groups (but not as much as the server will be punished if this set goes live).

In a small group you cant afford to lose people anyway.

Which potentially makes this set all the more detrimental to small scale.

No because if your small group lose a member that is very close to the others (<5 meters) its usually that your group is about to get overswarmed and wipe. So this set or not barely changes the issue of the fight in such situation.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

In general, of course skill factors come into play, but being vastly outnumbered should make your chances of survival incredibly hard. The fact that you guys win as many as you do is a testament to the coordination and skill you have.

Actually, there is no skill when it comes to PvP in this game. Unless the skill is knowing how to exploit game mechanics.

Hahaha, go duel one of the streamers, you wont last 10 seconds. They dont exploit the game's mechanics, they know how these mechanics work and apply them correctly.

Regarding the spreading out tactic, this only works if you have more numbers. The smaller group will have trouble killing everyone because the ones who survive can simply res their allies in 1-2 seconds. When fighting bigger groups the worst thing you can do is spread out, you dont want to get singled out and all the dmg/heals/ultities skills need to be coordinated to be as effective as possible.

Lol at "streamers". I guess it depends on how you define exploiting game mechanics.

And dueling.. Yeah they tend to be good at that b/c a lot of them hail from fps games and that's all they do/want to do. I don't see how me dueling them changes the skill required to PvP in this game...

You said there is no skill required in pvp and everyone who is good is exploiting the game's mechanics.
I mentioned streamer because you can check their videos to see they're not using exploits.

If pvp didnt require skill the biggest group would always will which is definitely not the case. Group coordination is probably the most important thing in large pvp battles and this requires a lot of skill, especially from the one leading.

In my personal opinion the only skill required to play this game is putting oneself in the right spot at the right time and then just mashing a couple buttons to achieve a result.

Ergo, the most skilled players are those that move a lot.

You basically described that you need positioning, timing and use the correct skills.

You can apply this description to any game, all you need to do is press the right button at the time, easy right?

GRxKnight · February 2016

I think we can all agree that this set isn't going to mess anything up more than this game from a pvp perspective already is...what it is going to do is add the ability to fight a larger group so that this isn't just a numbers game anymore...you get a kill on someone in that much larger zerg and now all of a sudden the tide of the battle has changed where now they're the ones scrambling to try and recover from the burst that just happened leaving your group on the offensive and trying to get another proc

Zheg · February 2016

GRxKnight wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this set isn't going to mess anything up more than this game from a pvp perspective already is...what it is going to do is add the ability to fight a larger group so that this isn't just a numbers game anymore...you get a kill on someone in that much larger zerg and now all of a sudden the tide of the battle has changed where now they're the ones scrambling to try and recover from the burst that just happened leaving your group on the offensive and trying to get another proc

You can already kill people with more numbers than you - in fact, far larger numbers. It's just not easy to do and you need to go into that fight with the realization that you're more likely to lose. The mentality shown in your post is pervasive among the playerbase right now and has led to the silly changes coming in TG. If your guys are to be believed, since we always stack with 3 raids of CN

then you'd never get wins, but that's not the case eh? So, I would think you believe you already can beat larger numbers. "Add the ability to fight a larger group" implies it can't be done at all right now, which is bull. What sets like this help do is let people get kills quicker and with reduced effort, which I don't really think even touches the legitimate balance discrepancies between a smaller group and a group with more. When people like you sing its praises, it doesn't matter how accurate others are when pointing out the flaws and ridiculousness of sets like this, Wrobel sees enough people buying into it, calls it good, and will just move onto something else to break. I agree the set is in and done, but that's because there wasn't a strong enough reaction pointing out how dumb it is and how the real balance issues are still there, and also because you get people going "hurr hurr, I'm excited, it's new, so let's just see how it plays out so that if and when we're ready to admit it's broken we can wait 8 months for changes." Oh, and when this set is used in reverse on you by the 60+ horde and now the gigantic group has even more of an advantage on you, that will be peachy.

_Chaos · February 2016

WTB Return Key for Zheg, pst

GRxKnight · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this set isn't going to mess anything up more than this game from a pvp perspective already is...what it is going to do is add the ability to fight a larger group so that this isn't just a numbers game anymore...you get a kill on someone in that much larger zerg and now all of a sudden the tide of the battle has changed where now they're the ones scrambling to try and recover from the burst that just happened leaving your group on the offensive and trying to get another proc

You can already kill people with more numbers than you - in fact, far larger numbers. It's just not easy to do and you need to go into that fight with the realization that you're more likely to lose. The mentality shown in your post is pervasive among the playerbase right now and has led to the silly changes coming in TG. If your guys are to be believed, since we always stack with 3 raids of CN then you'd never get wins, but that's not the case eh? So, I would think you believe you already can beat larger numbers. "Add the ability to fight a larger group" implies it can't be done at all right now, which is bull. What sets like this help do is let people get kills quicker and with reduced effort, which I don't really think even touches the legitimate balance discrepancies between a smaller group and a group with more. When people like you sing its praises, it doesn't matter how accurate others are when pointing out the flaws and ridiculousness of sets like this, Wrobel sees enough people buying into it, calls it good, and will just move onto something else to break. I agree the set is in and done, but that's because there wasn't a strong enough reaction pointing out how dumb it is and how the real balance issues are still there, and also because you get people going "hurr hurr, I'm excited, it's new, so let's just see how it plays out so that if and when we're ready to admit it's broken we can wait 8 months for changes." Oh, and when this set is used in reverse on you by the 60+ horde and now the gigantic group has even more of an advantage on you, that will be peachy.

Oh I'm well aware that you can wipe larger numbers as it is right now, unless it's an organized large group...large groups of pugs are easily manageable because pugs tend to not be as good as the organized raids... the problem is that with aoe caps it's harder and harder the more you see those numbers increase...if aoe caps are removed then this set will need to be looked at again and balanced...the fact that this set was made leads me too believe this is their long term solution (albeit maybe not permanent) to aoe caps and 60+ people stacked in a tight ball...yes it will also be used by these groups as well, it's slightly evens out the playing field and instead of saying "well we killed 10 of 60" there is now a chance that the entire group will error

And Zheg please stop trying to get me to agree with you by insinuating that I'm a mindless player who just wants an easy mode way to win....you're really making yourself look bad

HoloYoitsu · February 2016

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Satiar · February 2016

GRxKnight wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

I think we can all agree that this set isn't going to mess anything up more than this game from a pvp perspective already is...what it is going to do is add the ability to fight a larger group so that this isn't just a numbers game anymore...you get a kill on someone in that much larger zerg and now all of a sudden the tide of the battle has changed where now they're the ones scrambling to try and recover from the burst that just happened leaving your group on the offensive and trying to get another proc

You can already kill people with more numbers than you - in fact, far larger numbers. It's just not easy to do and you need to go into that fight with the realization that you're more likely to lose. The mentality shown in your post is pervasive among the playerbase right now and has led to the silly changes coming in TG. If your guys are to be believed, since we always stack with 3 raids of CN then you'd never get wins, but that's not the case eh? So, I would think you believe you already can beat larger numbers. "Add the ability to fight a larger group" implies it can't be done at all right now, which is bull. What sets like this help do is let people get kills quicker and with reduced effort, which I don't really think even touches the legitimate balance discrepancies between a smaller group and a group with more. When people like you sing its praises, it doesn't matter how accurate others are when pointing out the flaws and ridiculousness of sets like this, Wrobel sees enough people buying into it, calls it good, and will just move onto something else to break. I agree the set is in and done, but that's because there wasn't a strong enough reaction pointing out how dumb it is and how the real balance issues are still there, and also because you get people going "hurr hurr, I'm excited, it's new, so let's just see how it plays out so that if and when we're ready to admit it's broken we can wait 8 months for changes." Oh, and when this set is used in reverse on you by the 60+ horde and now the gigantic group has even more of an advantage on you, that will be peachy.

Oh I'm well aware that you can wipe larger numbers as it is right now, unless it's an organized large group...large groups of pugs are easily manageable because pugs tend to not be as good as the organized raids... the problem is that with aoe caps it's harder and harder the more you see those numbers increase...if aoe caps are removed then this set will need to be looked at again and balanced...the fact that this set was made leads me too believe this is their long term solution (albeit maybe not permanent) to aoe caps and 60+ people stacked in a tight ball...yes it will also be used by these groups as well, it's slightly evens out the playing field and instead of saying "well we killed 10 of 60" there is now a chance that the entire group will error

And Zheg please stop trying to get me to agree with you by insinuating that I'm a mindless player who just wants an easy mode way to win....you're really making yourself look bad

Everything about these changes dumbs down the game and removes strategy in favor of more burst...

So yeah. I'm really dubious of anyone who's super excited about this.

Xsorus · February 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Master_Kas · February 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Yeah because thats possible in breaches in keeps / chokepoints / on flags

HoloYoitsu · February 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?

Xsorus · February 2016

Master_Kas wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Yeah because thats possible in breaches in keeps / chokepoints / on flags

You mean choke points and stacking on the flag with s bunch of defenders is dangerous? *grin*

This game has been far to forgiving to scrubs for to long

Xsorus · February 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?

You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool

Satiar · February 2016

Thank god Xsorus is here. He never plays in a decent group but he's graciously decided to be an expert at it and tell us plebs how it's done.

Kelces · February 2016

The best solution then would be, not to use them. But I am getting delusional again, when does one ever refuse to get an equipment based advantage, right?

And again, here it goes: Players destroy games, not the developers... Claim responsibility, just once.

HoloYoitsu · February 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?

You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool

I get the feeling you don't actually participate in keep fights in game, whoever you are.

Elong · February 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Thank god Xsorus is here. He never plays in a decent group but he's graciously decided to be an expert at it and tell us plebs how it's done.

Hahaha that made me laugh.

Ghostbane · February 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Thank god Xsorus is here. He never plays in a decent group but he's graciously decided to be an expert at it and tell us plebs how it's done.

That is charity you can't guilt for.

Xsorus · February 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Thank god Xsorus is here. He never plays in a decent group but he's graciously decided to be an expert at it and tell us plebs how it's done.

Tells us more how you are going to quit because you can't Zerg around with 23 other people effectively. Because ya know... God forbid you can't play in a "decent" group.

Xsorus · February 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Why are we arguing about this?

The way the set is, that's basically a 1 shot on anyone who isn't full health or stacking shields. God forbid if you're a vampire. Such mechanics just aren't healthy for a PvP game. It's basically going to reduce GvG meta to just hide in stealth with your raid, then dump 20 unreflectable meteors and watch the fire works.

Healing is already going to be severely gimped because every group will run a couple tanks in Fasalla's Guile for the 50% heal debuff on anyone who touches them. Tell me how you like your small mans when your Templars are stuck healing 1 less target, and everyone has 50% heal debuffs on them almost constantly.

The solution to 'fighting against bigger numbers' shouldn't be in the form of a gear set. It should be in the form of tweaking the base game mechanics - things like AoE caps. I mean, let's just play devil's advocate here: where does this leave stam builds in competitive group play? HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, "Vicious Death or gtfo", that's where.

Don't stack within 5 meters of a bunch of people?

Do I need to draw a diagram of a keep inner for you?

You might want to draw it, study it, and then learn how not to stack up on a bunch of people.. Then maybe you won't die like a fool

I get the feeling you don't actually participate in keep fights in game, whoever you are.

yea you're right, in the entire 2 years of playing this game...I decided not to participate in any keep fights and have no idea about the layout of keeps *grin*.