BOL Nerf/ Healer Balance

DHale · February 2016

You guys are well intended but it's nothing but nerfs I have done nine hours on pts won't do any more. I am less effective at healing and slightly more damage as to what I am doing now, no where near my sorc or nb. The reduced healing is not even close to what I have now. We did dungeons and I actually had to spam heals faster and ran out of magic trying to lay down rituals before healing then the group would move then I had to keep recasting over and over. So.... I will play my tempkar until the patch then if the current set up goes live it's a bank toon. If you choose magic you will need heavy armor or you will get wrecked. The major mending does not happen if you take time to throw down a rune or focus then you get smoked anyone who has played a Templar... Ever. What does a dk need to do for major mending... stomp their feet. In my guild you know what the fellow Templar told me, "well now we will start using healing ward". Healing ward on a Templar.... Great. But I am think the breath of life nerf will stay will stay which is fine but getting and using major mending will almost never happen. So in pve it's rare in pvp it is impossible while casting your runes and rituals I will be cursing and fragging or ambush surprise attack. I sincerely hope this stuff does not go live so I guess we will see.

Dragnelus · February 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Endenium wrote: »

Joy Division mentioned "Focused Healing" - thats what I was thinking of.

But now Im confused. Are Templars keeping Focused Healing and getting Major Mending ON TOP of that?

If thats the case, it could make up for the BOL nerf.

If not, then theres no way I can consider the BOL change "rebalancing".

This is why there is so much confusion and why I felt the need to comment in this thread in the first place.

On Live right now, Templars have the Focus Healing Passive that increases breath of life by 30% for rune focus and purifying ritual.
Word for word: "Increases the healing effects from your Restoring Light abilities by 30% to allies standing in an areas of protection created by Rite of Passage, Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus."

On the PTS, this passive is getting changed. The 30% is going away and is getting replaced by the major mending buff that adds 25% to all healing done.

So it's not a straight additive 25%. Templars are losing the 30% bonus as it is getting replaced by a standard 25% bonus. It's a net loss of 5%.

So the comments stating breath of life will be stronger or rebalanced because of the passive is not true. On Live, BoL can get a 30% buff. On the PTS, BoL can get a 25% buff. Breath's top heal will heal for less. Breath is losing one heal. Nerfed. No matter how you cut it.

Same goes for dk healer. Major mending from Igneous shield is changed from 30 to 25.

I really wonder how this will effect temp healers. Now for the normal heals they used to give they need the skill and stand into the circle. Not handy for mobile boss fights.

Dk got some good group buffs no other class can give (major sorcery, major brutality for 40 secs and minor brutality) have same with templar stam resource buff.Together woth the twillight remedy gear it will give minor force on synergy and a heal for 10. Secs that will heal around 6k.

Did 60k sjngle heal with healing ward today on pts. Wanted to try it in a dungeon but nobody que.

Swen_von_Walhallion · February 2016

Well with my healer temp its huge nerf for me. Bc i have up cleansing rituál pernanentky and my group mostly stay in the i have 30% hrál boost for them. Now i get boosted all heals by 25% (lost 5% here) and my BoL is nerfed by 25% but still cost this same. I dont see here aby benefit from this change for my vlasy hrál only for resto skills. But when as templar i am forced used testo skils why the hell have ovn vlasy healing line is useles..

MikeB · February 2016

BoL should not have a reduction in targets healed, it should get a 5% (maybe even 10%) reduction in healing done on top of the Focused Healing passive being changed from what it is now to major mending.

As an "end game" geared Healplar I can heal everyone but tanks from 1% to 100% with one BoL and a tank with one crit.

Lyrander · February 2016

The only thing my Templars are better in than any other class was healing.
I like stamina temp. And mag dps temp.

But the only thing i was better in compared to all other classes is healing.

I dont think other classes should have their heals buffed to templar standards.

Anyway....they want to *balance* stuff like this?
Then gimme a cloak ability also. Why should NB be the only one having it? Duh?

Gimme a streak/teleport also.....why just not take away classes at all and let me decide what skills i want....

./sarcasm end

I just dont unterstand the reasoning. And Templars do have a FULL skill tree just for healing. If the class i am playing is not the best for healing - i want another skilltree. Just keep one or two heals.

Im sad

Ps: i also tested it. Doing around 4-5k less healing with the Main heal of BoL on pts right now in pve. Thats not really what bothers me though. Its other classes getting big heal skills now and BoL nerf to only heal one other player. In dungeons that means i will have a higher magicka output (just to heal that freaking NB always hanging behind with his bow and when at 75% life next attack will one-hit him....i still love you xD)

Dragnelus · February 2016

Lyrander wrote: »

The only thing my Templars are better in than any other class was healing.
I like stamina temp. And mag dps temp.

But the only thing i was better in compared to all other classes is healing.

I dont think other classes should have their heals buffed to templar standards.

Anyway....they want to *balance* stuff like this?
Then gimme a cloak ability also. Why should NB be the only one having it? Duh?

Gimme a streak/teleport also.....why just not take away classes at all and let me decide what skills i want....

./sarcasm end

I just dont unterstand the reasoning. And Templars do have a FULL skill tree just for healing. If the class i am playing is not the best for healing - i want another skilltree. Just keep one or two heals.

Im sad

Ps: i also tested it. Doing around 4-5k less healing with the Main heal of BoL on pts right now in pve. Thats not really what bothers me though. Its other classes getting big heal skills now and BoL nerf to only heal one other player. In dungeons that means i will have a higher magicka output (just to heal that freaking NB always hanging behind with his bow and when at 75% life next attack will one-hit him....i still love you xD)

What are your crits with bol? 4/5k isnt that bad considering they nerfed the major mending.

With or without buffs

Im critting for 21k with bol on pts atm with all self buffs

EgoRush · February 2016

Just from my personal experience in a PvE perspective, I've seen no issues with this modification. If arguing that Templar won't remain the top healer choice then guess again: It was never BoL that made us the best healers it was Repentance and Shards IMO. Keeping stamina up in a way no other class every can. Period. We are unique to this.

As for the current hardest PvE content, veteran Maw of Lorkhaj. Healing hasn't been an issue. I still use BoL, and never do I think "if only my BoL hit 3 people instead of 2, we'd have pulled through that". I think it's fine, especially considering we get Major Mending now - that is an absolutely beautiful change (thank-you, ZOS).

For PvP I can see why this is something to cry about.

However, I would have preferred a nerf to the healing potency rather than the number of targets. But I will make do.

Shaggygaming · February 2016

The Breath of Life change is fine. What I would like to see done is have Spear Shards moved to the Undaunted line and give Templar's a better AOE CC and maybe some type of Blinding Flashes. If you moved Spear Shards to Undaunted then other classes could provide stamina through Spear Shards and magicka through Necrotic Orb. Templar's still have repentance which cannot be matched by other healing classes but at least tanks wouldn't suffer with non Templar healing classes.

actosh · February 2016

Yep cause streamers cried like little babys.
If this game is ever goin to fail or loose a lot of players its cause of streamers and the devs that only listens to them.....but *** it. i´m done.

Dragnelus · February 2016

Endenium wrote: »

Joy Division mentioned "Focused Healing" - thats what I was thinking of.

But now Im confused. Are Templars keeping Focused Healing and getting Major Mending ON TOP of that?

If thats the case, it could make up for the BOL nerf.

If not, then theres no way I can consider the BOL change "rebalancing".

Nop major mending 25% heal replace what focus healing is now

Autolycus · February 2016

DHale wrote: »

You guys are well intended but it's nothing but nerfs I have done nine hours on pts won't do any more. I am less effective at healing and slightly more damage as to what I am doing now, no where near my sorc or nb. The reduced healing is not even close to what I have now. We did dungeons and I actually had to spam heals faster and ran out of magic trying to lay down rituals before healing then the group would move then I had to keep recasting over and over. So.... I will play my tempkar until the patch then if the current set up goes live it's a bank toon. If you choose magic you will need heavy armor or you will get wrecked. The major mending does not happen if you take time to throw down a rune or focus then you get smoked anyone who has played a Templar... Ever. What does a dk need to do for major mending... stomp their feet. In my guild you know what the fellow Templar told me, "well now we will start using healing ward". Healing ward on a Templar.... Great. But I am think the breath of life nerf will stay will stay which is fine but getting and using major mending will almost never happen. So in pve it's rare in pvp it is impossible while casting your runes and rituals I will be cursing and fragging or ambush surprise attack. I sincerely hope this stuff does not go live so I guess we will see.

For this part at least, ZOS mentioned that it would be a flat buff regardless of whether we move out of it. It's not that way on the PTS now, but when they change it, it will be virtually the same as stomping our feet.

Autolycus · February 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm not attacking you for something I missed. I am disagreeing with what you have written there and pointing our facts that you are not considering. Disagreement is not personal. You say 25K BoL will hit for 35K. How? Right now my best breath of life gets a 30% modification. On the PTS my best breath of life gets 25% modification. You keep touting how great major mending is and you treat it as an additive buff. But you do not account for the 30% modification to heals that templars currently get on LivE from the Focused healing passive. How can you talk of balancing when you are not considering all the variables for Breath of life from LiVE to the PTS?

That's not me being on a high horse. That's not me attacking you. That's me disagreeing with your assessment because you are not considering a key variable

Yes, the new passive does modify additional sources of healing. But what I responded to was a conversation about Breath of Life. Because whatever a restoration staff can do in the next patch isn't going to help those templars who do not want to use them. That's a different topic.

Your final comment was this:

"Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Again, you are only factoring in major mending and what you say is only true if the current Focused healing is completely taken out of the equation. That's not re-balancing. That's not considering all the variables.

None of this should be taken personally. I am pointing out facts you are not mentioning and I can't be expected to assume stuff that you meant to write but did not put on these forums.

Edit: I was wrong to say you want boL nerfed. Admit. But your overall analysis is incorrect because you never take into account the focused healing passive.

Fair enough. I wish you had approached this from this perspective to begin with, because this is actually constructive feedback. You have a valid point and I will reconsider my approach on it given what you've said. But this conversation has left a bitter taste, so I no longer wish to discuss this. They can do whatever they want to Templars; all I was trying to do is look at things in a positive light.

Talyena · February 2016

My solution. Since other healers are jealous of BoL, we just give it to them. Since it is the first in the line, just swap it for the first spell in the resto staff line. All fixed.

Joy_Division · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I'm not attacking you for something I missed. I am disagreeing with what you have written there and pointing our facts that you are not considering. Disagreement is not personal. You say 25K BoL will hit for 35K. How? Right now my best breath of life gets a 30% modification. On the PTS my best breath of life gets 25% modification. You keep touting how great major mending is and you treat it as an additive buff. But you do not account for the 30% modification to heals that templars currently get on LivE from the Focused healing passive. How can you talk of balancing when you are not considering all the variables for Breath of life from LiVE to the PTS?

That's not me being on a high horse. That's not me attacking you. That's me disagreeing with your assessment because you are not considering a key variable

Yes, the new passive does modify additional sources of healing. But what I responded to was a conversation about Breath of Life. Because whatever a restoration staff can do in the next patch isn't going to help those templars who do not want to use them. That's a different topic.

Your final comment was this:

"Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Again, you are only factoring in major mending and what you say is only true if the current Focused healing is completely taken out of the equation. That's not re-balancing. That's not considering all the variables.

None of this should be taken personally. I am pointing out facts you are not mentioning and I can't be expected to assume stuff that you meant to write but did not put on these forums.

Edit: I was wrong to say you want boL nerfed. Admit. But your overall analysis is incorrect because you never take into account the focused healing passive.

Fair enough. I wish you had approached this from this perspective to begin with, because this is actually constructive feedback. You have a valid point and I will reconsider my approach on it given what you've said. But this conversation has left a bitter taste, so I no longer wish to discuss this. They can do whatever they want to Templars; all I was trying to do is look at things in a positive light.

You are right, I should have approached it like this from the beginning. A bit too sensitive because of the disappointment with the patch. That's my bad not yours.

Dragnelus · February 2016

Talyena wrote: »

My solution. Since other healers are jealous of BoL, we just give it to them. Since it is the first in the line, just swap it for the first spell in the resto staff line. All fixed.

Sorc got a better one atm imo

DHale · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

You guys are well intended but it's nothing but nerfs I have done nine hours on pts won't do any more. I am less effective at healing and slightly more damage as to what I am doing now, no where near my sorc or nb. The reduced healing is not even close to what I have now. We did dungeons and I actually had to spam heals faster and ran out of magic trying to lay down rituals before healing then the group would move then I had to keep recasting over and over. So.... I will play my tempkar until the patch then if the current set up goes live it's a bank toon. If you choose magic you will need heavy armor or you will get wrecked. The major mending does not happen if you take time to throw down a rune or focus then you get smoked anyone who has played a Templar... Ever. What does a dk need to do for major mending... stomp their feet. In my guild you know what the fellow Templar told me, "well now we will start using healing ward". Healing ward on a Templar.... Great. But I am think the breath of life nerf will stay will stay which is fine but getting and using major mending will almost never happen. So in pve it's rare in pvp it is impossible while casting your runes and rituals I will be cursing and fragging or ambush surprise attack. I sincerely hope this stuff does not go live so I guess we will see.

For this part at least, ZOS mentioned that it would be a flat buff regardless of whether we move out of it. It's not that way on the PTS now, but when they change it, it will be virtually the same as stomping our feet.

The 25 percent buff will only stay four seconds on you before needing another rune or ritual. Again less than what we have now at 30 percent with focused healing. Also I don't know how much you pvp, casting runes and rituals down before going offensive or while taking incoming damage is not very realistic. In practical application the major mending buff will rarely apply. Even when used using a resto staff which all classes have access to being a Templar will not be about healing it will be about keeping yourself alive and moving. I however don't need a theory crafted supposition. A coulpe of hours on pts it's clear Templars were nerfed to a signifigant degree. I just hope these things don't go live but i am prepared to no longer play my Templar if this suckage goes live. You cannot convince me the it's better it's not it is true I believe that the damage will be more by a small percent but this is due to cp changes not skills improvements.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Endenium wrote: »

Joy Division mentioned "Focused Healing" - thats what I was thinking of.

But now Im confused. Are Templars keeping Focused Healing and getting Major Mending ON TOP of that?

If thats the case, it could make up for the BOL nerf.

If not, then theres no way I can consider the BOL change "rebalancing".

This is why there is so much confusion and why I felt the need to comment in this thread in the first place.

On Live right now, Templars have the Focus Healing Passive that increases breath of life by 30% for rune focus and purifying ritual.
Word for word: "Increases the healing effects from your Restoring Light abilities by 30% to allies standing in an areas of protection created by Rite of Passage, Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus."

On the PTS, this passive is getting changed. The 30% is going away and is getting replaced by the major mending buff that adds 25% to all healing done.

So it's not a straight additive 25%. Templars are losing the 30% bonus as it is getting replaced by a standard 25% bonus. It's a net loss of 5%.

So the comments stating breath of life will be stronger or rebalanced because of the passive is not true. On Live, BoL can get a 30% buff. On the PTS, BoL can get a 25% buff. Breath's top heal will heal for less. Breath is losing one heal. Nerfed. No matter how you cut it.

If your correct then its an overall templar buff. If we get 5% less on templar heals for people standing in a medium circle but 25% healing buff on ALL healing including resto staff and vigor... Thats a huge buff. so templars would have best resto and dedicated healing skill line and stamplars have strongest vigor.... now if they make major mending really easy for all classes to get it will be a huge nerf in the end but atm its just comes from igneous shield, and not needing to activate buffs cant be discounted either.