Meteor

hammayolettuce · February 2016

Every class had a counter to meteor ..

Templars - Eclipse
Nightblades - Cloak
Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
Dragonknights - Reflect

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

Ryuho · February 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class hasve a counter to meteor ..

[*] Templars - Eclipse
[*] Nightblades - Cloak
[*] Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
[*] Dragonknights - Reflect
[/list]

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

a block..

Jura23 · February 2016

Ryuho wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class hasve a counter to meteor ..

[*] Templars - Eclipse
[*] Nightblades - Cloak
[*] Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
[*] Dragonknights - Reflect
[/list]

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

a block..

shields

OdinForge · February 2016

MountainHound wrote: »

People defending must be NBs

Don't say *** like this Mountain Hound.

I'm a NB main and I'm out here vehemently fighting against the changes revolving meteor, for DK and for every class in general. Let's be honest pop a radiant against a NB and rain all your meteors, since he'll be unable to cloak. In a 1v1 with someone using radiant, cloak is essentially useless. You can't even get the passive buffs.

OtarTheMad · February 2016

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class had a counter to meteor ..
Templars - Eclipse

Nightblades - Cloak

Sorceres - Hardened + Harness

Dragonknights - Reflect

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

Right now yes, but when the TG DLC drops most of these counters will be taken away (Reflect fixed/nerfed, magelight taking NBs out of cloak etc.) which leaves just blocking. You can go ahead and block 6-12 meteors coming your way from a group ult-bombing but that means you're stationary and therefore going to get run over anyway, plus usually when you're blocking Meteor you still get shot up into the air for some reason. I predict that if this hits live like this... it's going to get ugly in vet pvp until players figure out a new way to counter besides blocking.

Prabooo · February 2016

Drackens wrote: »

The DK could have ate a kebab...

I am afraid you are correct sir, yet Perfect Roe is expensive in order to craft this kind of daedric kebab, so still my point is irrefutable

Prabooo · February 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And this is a fantasy game with people casting magic left and right and you are seriously trying to bring real life physicals into this game. Really? Just leave I am sorry but just leave.

jum, I won't leave :P I will stick around with some popcorn (adjusts nerd glasses)... By the way, comments ARE reflectable

Elong · February 2016

I play DK and Templar mainly, so I'm not a NB defending meteor change. I'm also not clueless, thanks Snu.

I don't see the issue with it not having a counter. The only issue is that every class can use it, therefore it's easier to stack.

I'll repeat though, if an entire group ulti bombs, you're not going to live regardless of which ultimates the team uses.

Fall damage though, heh, why do I have no confidence that it's fixed...

OdinForge · February 2016

Elong wrote: »

I play DK and Templar mainly, so I'm not a NB defending meteor change. I'm also not clueless, thanks Snu.

I don't see the issue with it not having a counter. The only issue is that every class can use it, therefore it's easier to stack.

I'll repeat though, if an entire group ulti bombs, you're not going to live regardless of which ultimates the team uses.

Fall damage though, heh, why do I have no confidence that it's fixed...

The biggest issue here is the continual "dumbing" down of the game. ZOS is constantly removing skill checks out of the game, meteor was stupid easy to use already. You point and click and it does a host of bad things, the skill checks for new players was reflection and class based countering, and knowing how to CC your target. I think I read that they added a gap closer snare to dragon leap, to make it easier to connect with. They did the same type of dumbing down with gap closers in 1.7, it's an outrage.

Before 1.9 goes live, I'd rather deal with 5 carelessly launched dragon leaps, than 5 carelessly launched meteors, even with the available counters. Meteor is going to become the ultimate for the masses, and you'll see what we mean then.

Manoekin · February 2016

Look at how many people already use meteor when it can be reflected. I'm sure every single player will have it slotted next patch if it stays the way it is on PTS.

PosternHouse · February 2016

They ought to make it a ground target, like Ash Cloud or Nova.

OdinForge · February 2016

PosternHouse wrote: »

They ought to make it a ground target, like Ash Cloud or Nova.

Either this or bring back the counters, either way this ability worked perfectly fine before this unnecessary change.

They actually spent resource time changing meteor for some reason, instead of fixing reverberating bash which has been broken since before 1.6, unbelievable. Reminds me of the proposed 1.7 Altmer / Bosmer racial buffs, in the face of races like Argonian, so mind numbing.

Xeven · February 2016

Oh no. Sorcs have an ultimate that I can't CC or dodge roll. Plz nerf.

Manoekin · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Oh no. Sorcs have an ultimate that I can't CC or dodge roll. Plz nerf.

Welcome to every other class?

MountainHound · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Oh no. Sorcs have an ultimate that I can't CC or dodge roll. Plz nerf.

It is more "O no nothing can counter this, now 99% of the players will be using it". Or rather, you can do something by blocking but no one has the fear o it being done back to them now.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Reflecting meteor is bad for the server, we've all seen it happen.

At least make it do zero dmg when its reflected, unlike other ultimates you have enough time to react to it.

Streak and Cloak are ways to avoid the dmg, reflecting should also avoid the dmg.

Minno · February 2016

OtarTheMad wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class had a counter to meteor ..
Templars - Eclipse

Nightblades - Cloak

Sorceres - Hardened + Harness

Dragonknights - Reflect

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

Right now yes, but when the TG DLC drops most of these counters will be taken away (Reflect fixed/nerfed, magelight taking NBs out of cloak etc.) which leaves just blocking. You can go ahead and block 6-12 meteors coming your way from a group ult-bombing but that means you're stationary and therefore going to get run over anyway, plus usually when you're blocking Meteor you still get shot up into the air for some reason. I predict that if this hits live like this... it's going to get ugly in vet pvp until players figure out a new way to counter besides blocking.

Absorb magicka still works (but only 6k absorb in cyro.) And requires s+b slotted. But the block with s+B will help mitigate dmg. Making this still a viable tactic. All builds besides DK had to slot S+B anyway for a reliable reflect skill. Just change your morph and add a little more health.

For group vs group combat, no longer do I see this passive counter being viable (popping a reflect and shifting back to dps). Dropping mitigation, popping stam return skills after initial burst(templars), coordinated defense via heals, personal shields/ spell resistance buffs, will be the defense as you will be trying to soften the blow. So as a group, a coordinated meteor bomb will be one death of many if you can't time a viable reaction.

The 1v1 Templar gets shafted the most from this change, because we used purifying ritual to negate projectiles using magicka instead of stam. But that effect wasn't intended in the first place so we have to accept the change for now.

I'm not opposed to the reflect (I know its counters ), but let's not pretend popping a reflect is "skillful"; you stacked reflect chances. The correct direction for this dialogue was "how to make meteor skillful but not reflectable". ZOS gave us an answer by forcing the dmg thereby forcing our builds to learn how to mitigate it instead of hitting one button.

JaJaLuka · February 2016

Minno wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class had a counter to meteor ..
Templars - Eclipse

Nightblades - Cloak

Sorceres - Hardened + Harness

Dragonknights - Reflect

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

Right now yes, but when the TG DLC drops most of these counters will be taken away (Reflect fixed/nerfed, magelight taking NBs out of cloak etc.) which leaves just blocking. You can go ahead and block 6-12 meteors coming your way from a group ult-bombing but that means you're stationary and therefore going to get run over anyway, plus usually when you're blocking Meteor you still get shot up into the air for some reason. I predict that if this hits live like this... it's going to get ugly in vet pvp until players figure out a new way to counter besides blocking.

Absorb magicka still works (but only 6k absorb in cyro.) And requires s+b slotted. But the block with s+B will help mitigate dmg. Making this still a viable tactic. All builds besides DK had to slot S+B anyway for a reliable reflect skill. Just change your morph and add a little more health.

For group vs group combat, no longer do I see this passive counter being viable (popping a reflect and shifting back to dps). Dropping mitigation, popping stam return skills after initial burst(templars), coordinated defense via heals, personal shields/ spell resistance buffs, will be the defense as you will be trying to soften the blow. So as a group, a coordinated meteor bomb will be one death of many if you can't time a viable reaction.

The 1v1 Templar gets shafted the most from this change, because we used purifying ritual to negate projectiles using magicka instead of stam. But that effect wasn't intended in the first place so we have to accept the change for now.

I'm not opposed to the reflect (I know its counters ), but let's not pretend popping a reflect is "skillful"; you stacked reflect chances. The correct direction for this dialogue was "how to make meteor skillful but not reflectable". ZOS gave us an answer by forcing the dmg thereby forcing our builds to learn how to mitigate it instead of hitting one button.

You must be joking Minno, carefully choosing a target and slotting a reflect in case your meteor goes awry is far more skilful than popping 3-4 shields and tanking. At least I have to consider what the downsides are in the current system. When the non-reflecting meteor goes live it's going to be a case of lag for days.
They genuinely need to reconsider this. They've already been putting things into the game in an effort to thin out zergs and lag, but this is a giant leap in the opposite direction. With 24 player groups all popping meteor at once it's going to be a slide show. Imagine if a shooting star hits a zerg, the feedback from the ulti gain alone will bump their ulti way back up to have it ready too quickly. I'd be prepping for 1 FPS or worse.
If they want to add in that ultimate as unreflectable, they need to revert it to what it was and make it ground targeted like it used to be.

Lucky28 · February 2016

everyone already uses meteor......

Minno · February 2016

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class had a counter to meteor ..
Templars - Eclipse

Nightblades - Cloak

Sorceres - Hardened + Harness

Dragonknights - Reflect

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

Right now yes, but when the TG DLC drops most of these counters will be taken away (Reflect fixed/nerfed, magelight taking NBs out of cloak etc.) which leaves just blocking. You can go ahead and block 6-12 meteors coming your way from a group ult-bombing but that means you're stationary and therefore going to get run over anyway, plus usually when you're blocking Meteor you still get shot up into the air for some reason. I predict that if this hits live like this... it's going to get ugly in vet pvp until players figure out a new way to counter besides blocking.

Absorb magicka still works (but only 6k absorb in cyro.) And requires s+b slotted. But the block with s+B will help mitigate dmg. Making this still a viable tactic. All builds besides DK had to slot S+B anyway for a reliable reflect skill. Just change your morph and add a little more health.

For group vs group combat, no longer do I see this passive counter being viable (popping a reflect and shifting back to dps). Dropping mitigation, popping stam return skills after initial burst(templars), coordinated defense via heals, personal shields/ spell resistance buffs, will be the defense as you will be trying to soften the blow. So as a group, a coordinated meteor bomb will be one death of many if you can't time a viable reaction.

The 1v1 Templar gets shafted the most from this change, because we used purifying ritual to negate projectiles using magicka instead of stam. But that effect wasn't intended in the first place so we have to accept the change for now.

I'm not opposed to the reflect (I know its counters ), but let's not pretend popping a reflect is "skillful"; you stacked reflect chances. The correct direction for this dialogue was "how to make meteor skillful but not reflectable". ZOS gave us an answer by forcing the dmg thereby forcing our builds to learn how to mitigate it instead of hitting one button.

You must be joking Minno, carefully choosing a target and slotting a reflect in case your meteor goes awry is far more skilful than popping 3-4 shields and tanking. At least I have to consider what the downsides are in the current system. When the non-reflecting meteor goes live it's going to be a case of lag for days.
They genuinely need to reconsider this. They've already been putting things into the game in an effort to thin out zergs and lag, but this is a giant leap in the opposite direction. With 24 player groups all popping meteor at once it's going to be a slide show. Imagine if a shooting star hits a zerg, the feedback from the ulti gain alone will bump their ulti way back up to have it ready too quickly. I'd be prepping for 1 FPS or worse.
If they want to add in that ultimate as unreflectable, they need to revert it to what it was and make it ground targeted like it used to be.

Not joking. At least you have to watch your resource pools if the dmg always hits.

Under reflect tactics, you pop one skill. Count to 2 reflects all you want, but its still counting how many times that meteor was reflected. They teach that in sesame street. At some point you have to decide if 2 reflects is the end point. Why not keep reflecting the meteor? Then that would be skill! (Tennis). But utterly redundant.

Better challenge is anticipating that dmg, gearing for it and applying the correct mitigation and healing so you don't wipe. Best raid will be the one that can communicates the mitigation during that burst.

Joy_Division · February 2016

The ground target idea is interesting, but it would have to work differently than abilities like eruption and nova that are instant and thus very difficult not to get hit by them.

I think part of the reason why so many people slot and will slot meteor is that there aren't many burst DPS alternatives, which is very important to have. Many Templars, Sorcs who don't want to slot a reflectable Overload, and magicka DKs are going to want meteor.

Things would be more interesting if more alternatives burst DPS ultis were available other than meteor. The weapon lines always should have had ultimate options and their absence is making meteor too often the only attractive choice.

Duiwel · February 2016

Don't care I always have meteor on my alt slot on my sorc no matter what ( only DK's can reflective scale, stamplars and sorc's are ripe for the picking ).

Just sad that Augustus can't reflect them anymore...

Minno · February 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

The ground target idea is interesting, but it would have to work differently than abilities like eruption and nova that are instant and thus very difficult not to get hit by them.

I think part of the reason why so many people slot and will slot meteor is that there aren't many burst DPS alternatives, which is very important to have. Many Templars, Sorcs who don't want to slot a reflectable Overload, and magicka DKs are going to want meteor.

Things would be more interesting if more alternatives burst DPS ultis were available other than meteor. The weapon lines always should have had ultimate options and their absence is making meteor too often the only attractive choice.

I agree. Though I disagree that weapons should get ultimates (martial arts type of attacks). But that doesn't excuse the class ultimates not having a burst dps available for the each one.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2016

On a lighter note, this really isn't a big deal. Folks will adapt, just like they adapted to no stam regen while blocking, dodge roll nerf, damage nerf, sheid nerf, etc...we will adapt to this too. Calm down, the sky is not falling

OdinForge · February 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

On a lighter note, this really isn't a big deal. Folks will adapt, just like they adapted to no stam regen while blocking, dodge roll nerf, damage nerf, sheid nerf, etc...we will adapt to this too. Calm down, the sky is not falling

I realize that you're attempting to leverage your opinion of this term, it's not so much skill but rather experience and a thought process. Not just anyone could pick this ultimate up and casually get it to work like more experienced users. You may be of the opinion that skill doesn't exist in ESO, but there used to be learning curves and progression. Just like learning how to time your leap so that your experienced target doesn't side step it, ZOS keeps "dumbing" down the game in many aspects.

CyrusArya · February 2016

This new unreflectable meteor is cancerous to balance and makes magicka builds OP as hell. To all the people who think they are clever pointing out that block is a mechanic, clearly you lot are unacquainted with how any decent players will time meteor with a CC to ensure a direct hit. Can be done easily on every class. As it currently stands, meteor has no solid counters and is a brainless 'I win' button. Combine this with proxy det and magicka builds have it wayyy too easy to lay down insane burst. Every magicka build is gonna be running these two skills and it is so disgustingly overpowered and cheesy. I get that you at ZoS probably made this change for sake of performance, but a skill as strong as meteor (a homing aoe ulti with insane burst and dot damage) shouldn't have no counters. Literally not a single other ulti that functions like meteor.

If you are serious about keeping this change, let meteor do magical or physical damage and scale completely with the higher stat...that is if you really care about balance. Then watch the QQ pour in. Otherwise this tips the scales far too much in magickas favor.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

This is a pretty obvious dumbing down change, I lost the energy to even bother any further though.

Aleraon wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Aleraon wrote: »

meteor is not a projectile which is what dragon fire scale reflects. Its an ultimate that falls from the sky and therefore should not be reflectable.

You might research what projectile means.

A projectile is any object thrown into space (empty or not) by the exertion of a force.[1] Although any object in motion through space (for example a thrown baseball) may be called a projectile, the term more commonly refers to a ranged weapon

What the **** are you even talking about? Let's not argue semantics of a word in a video game, meteor is a projectile. In terms of a healthy and balanced game, we should have the ability to reflect or at the very least dodge this ultimate, NB can still cloak and Templar can still cleanse so WTF. You take a lot of thought out of the game by removing this function.

idk if anyone said this already, but templars can no longer purge this ultimate, or any projectile for that matter.

The main issue is all of the above. No matter what it is or what it does, no ability in the game should be an "I win" button for newbs who don't want to learn how to play. Everything in the game should have some sort of reasonable counter or defense. Meteor no longer satisfies that and that's why it's a bad change.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

Ryuho wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class hasve a counter to meteor ..

[*] Templars - Eclipse
[*] Nightblades - Cloak
[*] Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
[*] Dragonknights - Reflect
[/list]

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

a block..

You all are still assuming it's going to be like now where you get hit by one Meteor. Let me explain this one more time for those that are too slow to get it.
Right now the only thing stopping people from using Meteor is because it can get reflected.
If you take away the reflect then there is no consequence for using Meteor, therefore only idiots or masochists will not slot it.
So you will not be getting by a single Meteor, but rather by several...all the time.

There is no amount of blocking, dodging, shielding, etc against 5 or more consecutive/simultaneous Meteors.
DO WE UNDERSTAND NOW?? I mean seriously, do you really need this explained any more plainly to fully understand what this is not only going to do to PvP in terms of gameplay but more importantly lag?

Leovolao · February 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class hasve a counter to meteor ..

[*] Templars - Eclipse
[*] Nightblades - Cloak
[*] Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
[*] Dragonknights - Reflect
[/list]

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

a block..

You all are still assuming it's going to be like now where you get hit by one Meteor. Let me explain this one more time for those that are too slow to get it.
Right now the only thing stopping people from using Meteor is because it can get reflected.
If you take away the reflect then there is no consequence for using Meteor, therefore only idiots or masochists will not slot it.
So you will not be getting by a single Meteor, but rather by several...all the time.

There is no amount of blocking, dodging, shielding, etc against 5 or more consecutive/simultaneous Meteors.
DO WE UNDERSTAND NOW?? I mean seriously, do you really need this explained any more plainly to fully understand what this is not only going to do to PvP in terms of gameplay but more importantly lag?

I'm not getting hit 5 or more consecutive/simultaneous ultimates on live at the moment, why would it be any different if this change goes through? Even if I were, then I'd most likely die anyways.
To me, the changes to reflect are dumb this patch and I agree meteor should be tone down a bit. But the amount of tears people are spilling over this is just unbeliavable.

Takllin · February 2016

Leovolao wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Every class hasve a counter to meteor ..

[*] Templars - Eclipse
[*] Nightblades - Cloak
[*] Sorceres - Hardened + Harness
[*] Dragonknights - Reflect
[/list]

There is always S&B Reflect...

Now, only NBs dont have to worry about it and can go ahead and continue their nasty burst as usual.

a block..

You all are still assuming it's going to be like now where you get hit by one Meteor. Let me explain this one more time for those that are too slow to get it.
Right now the only thing stopping people from using Meteor is because it can get reflected.
If you take away the reflect then there is no consequence for using Meteor, therefore only idiots or masochists will not slot it.
So you will not be getting by a single Meteor, but rather by several...all the time.

There is no amount of blocking, dodging, shielding, etc against 5 or more consecutive/simultaneous Meteors.
DO WE UNDERSTAND NOW?? I mean seriously, do you really need this explained any more plainly to fully understand what this is not only going to do to PvP in terms of gameplay but more importantly lag?

I'm not getting hit 5 or more consecutive/simultaneous ultimates on live at the moment, why would it be any different if this change goes through? Even if I were, then I'd most likely die anyways.
To me, the changes to reflect are dumb this patch and I agree meteor should be tone down a bit. But the amount of tears people are spilling over this is just unbeliavable.

Yeah the argument about getting hit with five ultimates is silly, if anyone gets hit with 5 ultimates you should die...

I take issue with them dumbing the game down and removing counters to gameplay.