Thanks

Well, they did give sorcerers their own BoL that's actually better than the templar one was before the nerf, so there is that...

Crzykiddo wrote: »

Thing is, they simultaneously nerfed BoL while giving sorcerers a STRONGER heal with the Twilight. It heals two people for the same amount, instead of having the second heal be less. You could argue that in order for a sorc healer to be efficient that they need the pet on both bars, but it is usually good practice to have BoL on both bars anyway. My proposal is keep the two targets for heals, but get rid of the reduction on the second heal. That way Templars still have an edge in healing but they aren't being beat by sorcerers or other classes. Templars have a healing skill line, we SHOULD have the best utility for heals. It makes our class unique.

Right? Like Im not offended that Templars don't have outrageous sneak/ invisibility abilities BC thats what Nightblades do...

So I just really cannot wrap my head around this BOL nonsense. Its just a bad decision over all.

In regards to the sorc comments, y'all are forgetting that the Twilight can DIE. And, its heal is only based on Magicka, meaning that you need to make specific gear choices for one single ability to be effective. Templars can still just stack spell power, and utilize sets like SPC that aid a group more (okay, bad example, this is also a great set for sorc healers). Sorc has a harder time doing that. Yes, I realize magicka increase regular dmg/hps as well, but how maNY recent sets do nothing but increase magicka? Also, Templars are still the only ones that restore stamina.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Twilight change is excellent, and I am excited to see it in action, but it isnt the new BoL. Templars don't have to keep their heals alive, only themselves.

Basically all the problem it's that they nerfed the bol to but didn't reduce the cost. right? The templar it's the first healer not only for the ammount of healing provided, but for the resources it give to the party. If a nerf was necessary for the balance i would have nerfed a little the repetance instead of the bol.

Autolycus wrote: »

Adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance. BoLs that are currently hitting for 25k+ on live will now hit very easily for 35k+. It makes sense that they would reduce the number of targets BoL can hit to accommodate this. An alternative option would be to reduce the healing effectiveness overall for BoL and keep 3 targets, though I doubt this change would merit any less of a negative response from the majority of Templars.

Note: I also have a Templar healer, I just happen to be very experienced with Major Mending on my DK healer, and I can say with 100% confidence that my DK healer was cranking out higher numbers than I have ever seen a Templar put out (avg. healing springs tick: 6-7k on dps/heals and 8.3-8.7k on tanks, as high as 10.3k for a single tick with a war horn active, healing ward crits for 30k+ just on the initial cast). Adding Major Mending to Templars is absolutely going to widen the gap between the healing potential of Templars vs. the other classes.

Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Overhealing is not a buff. I can already get 90% of the people to full life with one Breath of Life cast. Buffing its power is unnecessary and not a buff.

This is the same as saying that Healing Ritual is the best heal because I can crit for over 50k healing with it. No one needs that much healing. It remains useless.

You people got to understand that while there is no such thing as too much power for a DPS, healers need versatility over stacking too much power and overhealing.

Autolycus wrote: »

If versatility is your concern, then consider how much easier it's going to be for us, as templars, to focus more on spell power and magic damage when we get a free 25% healing buff from our class. Put that on your bar and suddenly you can do a hell of a lot more in terms of damage and utility, because you can afford to focus less on healing potential.

Thank you. I feel that this is what a lot of others are missing. Despite the nerf (because individually, yes, it is a nerf), Templar maintains the highest versatility, allowing them to reach an acceptable level of healing and then focus on other things. In-class Major Mending is a big part of this.

Though, for the sake of derailing this (this is the official forums after all!) I will point out that ALL classes have access to Major Mending through the Restoration Staff line now.
Cheers!

Cas out.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance. BoLs that are currently hitting for 25k+ on live will now hit very easily for 35k+. It makes sense that they would reduce the number of targets BoL can hit to accommodate this. An alternative option would be to reduce the healing effectiveness overall for BoL and keep 3 targets, though I doubt this change would merit any less of a negative response from the majority of Templars.

Note: I also have a Templar healer, I just happen to be very experienced with Major Mending on my DK healer, and I can say with 100% confidence that my DK healer was cranking out higher numbers than I have ever seen a Templar put out (avg. healing springs tick: 6-7k on dps/heals and 8.3-8.7k on tanks, as high as 10.3k for a single tick with a war horn active, healing ward crits for 30k+ just on the initial cast). Adding Major Mending to Templars is absolutely going to widen the gap between the healing potential of Templars vs. the other classes.

Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Wut?

On Live, my breathes are modified by 30%. In the upcoming patch they will be modified by 25% and we're losing an entire heal. And you want to nerf it further?

Your response confuses me. I never said to nerf it?

I'm simply pointing out that changing BoL to hit 2 targets from 3 isn't a direct nerf when the healing potential of BoL is being simultaneously buffed by adding Major Mending to the Temp skill line. Major Mending is a huge deal; the inherent value of Major Mending far exceeds the amount of potential output on that one additional target that BoL currently hits. As it stands, every bit of content in this game is can be healed without BoL, so imho having it hit 2 targets instead of 3 is fairly negligible. Without any additions to temps this absolutely would be a nerf, but the fact they are giving us Mending changes that. We are actually gaining more in terms of healing potential than we are losing with the change to BoL.

What you have written is a nerf. You used the word reduction! Then you used the phrase reduce the healing effectiveness.

You were right about one thing, your idea will absolutely merit a negative response from templars.

In PvP, the big heal is the only one worth a damn. You want to lower that further. No can do.

You keep saying that BoL is getting buffed by adding major mending. That's not accurate and it's not a buff. It's a potentially inferior replacement to the current system that nets 30% larger heals.

First of all, I do not want BoL nerfed, nor did I say I wanted it to be the case. What I don't understand is why you are attacking me for pointing out something you missed. I never even said I support the "nerf" to BoL, I simply told you why I think ZOS did it. Get off your high horse and learn to read what I actually put. Taking things out of context does no good. For your sake, allow me to spell it out more directly so that we can quit arguing semantics and get back onto the whole "constructive discussion" thing that I came here for to begin with:

Autolycus wrote: »

*In ZOS's eyes, adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance.

Second, the addition of Major Mending to the templar skill line means that even though they are reducing the heal to only benefit two individuals, each of those heals on the two individuals is 25% stronger. This is called balancing. By itself, the reduction would be a nerf. The fact that Major Mending not only makes BoL just as valuable in terms of total healing output , but also improves all other sources of healing by 25% as well, makes this a net benefit to all templars.

Also, BoL is not the only useful healing skill in PvP. I can sustain a 12man group by myself with a DK healer in cyrodiil. I've done extensive testing and Major Mending being introduced to Templars is going to make them substantially more powerful healers. Major Mending makes the nerf to BoL a wash. It's adds 25% to everything else.

Cryhavoc wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance. BoLs that are currently hitting for 25k+ on live will now hit very easily for 35k+. It makes sense that they would reduce the number of targets BoL can hit to accommodate this. An alternative option would be to reduce the healing effectiveness overall for BoL and keep 3 targets, though I doubt this change would merit any less of a negative response from the majority of Templars.

Note: I also have a Templar healer, I just happen to be very experienced with Major Mending on my DK healer, and I can say with 100% confidence that my DK healer was cranking out higher numbers than I have ever seen a Templar put out (avg. healing springs tick: 6-7k on dps/heals and 8.3-8.7k on tanks, as high as 10.3k for a single tick with a war horn active, healing ward crits for 30k+ just on the initial cast). Adding Major Mending to Templars is absolutely going to widen the gap between the healing potential of Templars vs. the other classes.

Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Wut?

On Live, my breathes are modified by 30%. In the upcoming patch they will be modified by 25% and we're losing an entire heal. And you want to nerf it further?

Your response confuses me. I never said to nerf it?

I'm simply pointing out that changing BoL to hit 2 targets from 3 isn't a direct nerf when the healing potential of BoL is being simultaneously buffed by adding Major Mending to the Temp skill line. Major Mending is a huge deal; the inherent value of Major Mending far exceeds the amount of potential output on that one additional target that BoL currently hits. As it stands, every bit of content in this game is can be healed without BoL, so imho having it hit 2 targets instead of 3 is fairly negligible. Without any additions to temps this absolutely would be a nerf, but the fact they are giving us Mending changes that. We are actually gaining more in terms of healing potential than we are losing with the change to BoL.

What you have written is a nerf. You used the word reduction! Then you used the phrase reduce the healing effectiveness.

You were right about one thing, your idea will absolutely merit a negative response from templars.

In PvP, the big heal is the only one worth a damn. You want to lower that further. No can do.

You keep saying that BoL is getting buffed by adding major mending. That's not accurate and it's not a buff. It's a potentially inferior replacement to the current system that nets 30% larger heals.

First of all, I do not want BoL nerfed, nor did I say I wanted it to be the case. What I don't understand is why you are attacking me for pointing out something you missed. I never even said I support the "nerf" to BoL, I simply told you why I think ZOS did it. Get off your high horse and learn to read what I actually put. Taking things out of context does no good. For your sake, allow me to spell it out more directly so that we can quit arguing semantics and get back onto the whole "constructive discussion" thing that I came here for to begin with:

Autolycus wrote: »

*In ZOS's eyes, adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance.

Second, the addition of Major Mending to the templar skill line means that even though they are reducing the heal to only benefit two individuals, each of those heals on the two individuals is 25% stronger. This is called balancing. By itself, the reduction would be a nerf. The fact that Major Mending not only makes BoL just as valuable in terms of total healing output , but also improves all other sources of healing by 25% as well, makes this a net benefit to all templars.

Also, BoL is not the only useful healing skill in PvP. I can sustain a 12man group by myself with a DK healer in cyrodiil. I've done extensive testing and Major Mending being introduced to Templars is going to make them substantially more powerful healers. Major Mending makes the nerf to BoL a wash. It's adds 25% to everything else.

Even if BoL was untouched, the change to Focused Healing (from 30% more healing to Major Mending at 25%) is a 5% nerf.

Thus, BoL is reduced by 1 target AND 5%. Is my math incorrect?

Yes your math is correct, however I believe our previous passive required people to be standing in our Rune/Ritual to even GET that bonus healing. With the new changes although it's 5% weaker it now only requires US to be in the rune so overall it could be considered a considerable buff even if there are situations where it technically is a 5% nerf.

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance. BoLs that are currently hitting for 25k+ on live will now hit very easily for 35k+. It makes sense that they would reduce the number of targets BoL can hit to accommodate this. An alternative option would be to reduce the healing effectiveness overall for BoL and keep 3 targets, though I doubt this change would merit any less of a negative response from the majority of Templars.

Note: I also have a Templar healer, I just happen to be very experienced with Major Mending on my DK healer, and I can say with 100% confidence that my DK healer was cranking out higher numbers than I have ever seen a Templar put out (avg. healing springs tick: 6-7k on dps/heals and 8.3-8.7k on tanks, as high as 10.3k for a single tick with a war horn active, healing ward crits for 30k+ just on the initial cast). Adding Major Mending to Templars is absolutely going to widen the gap between the healing potential of Templars vs. the other classes.

Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Wut?

On Live, my breathes are modified by 30%. In the upcoming patch they will be modified by 25% and we're losing an entire heal. And you want to nerf it further?

Your response confuses me. I never said to nerf it?

I'm simply pointing out that changing BoL to hit 2 targets from 3 isn't a direct nerf when the healing potential of BoL is being simultaneously buffed by adding Major Mending to the Temp skill line. Major Mending is a huge deal; the inherent value of Major Mending far exceeds the amount of potential output on that one additional target that BoL currently hits. As it stands, every bit of content in this game is can be healed without BoL, so imho having it hit 2 targets instead of 3 is fairly negligible. Without any additions to temps this absolutely would be a nerf, but the fact they are giving us Mending changes that. We are actually gaining more in terms of healing potential than we are losing with the change to BoL.

What you have written is a nerf. You used the word reduction! Then you used the phrase reduce the healing effectiveness.

You were right about one thing, your idea will absolutely merit a negative response from templars.

In PvP, the big heal is the only one worth a damn. You want to lower that further. No can do.

You keep saying that BoL is getting buffed by adding major mending. That's not accurate and it's not a buff. It's a potentially inferior replacement to the current system that nets 30% larger heals.

First of all, I do not want BoL nerfed, nor did I say I wanted it to be the case. What I don't understand is why you are attacking me for pointing out something you missed. I never even said I support the "nerf" to BoL, I simply told you why I think ZOS did it. Get off your high horse and learn to read what I actually put. Taking things out of context does no good. For your sake, allow me to spell it out more directly so that we can quit arguing semantics and get back onto the whole "constructive discussion" thing that I came here for to begin with:

Autolycus wrote: »

*In ZOS's eyes, adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance.

Second, the addition of Major Mending to the templar skill line means that even though they are reducing the heal to only benefit two individuals, each of those heals on the two individuals is 25% stronger. This is called balancing. By itself, the reduction would be a nerf. The fact that Major Mending not only makes BoL just as valuable in terms of total healing output , but also improves all other sources of healing by 25% as well, makes this a net benefit to all templars.

Also, BoL is not the only useful healing skill in PvP. I can sustain a 12man group by myself with a DK healer in cyrodiil. I've done extensive testing and Major Mending being introduced to Templars is going to make them substantially more powerful healers. Major Mending makes the nerf to BoL a wash. It's adds 25% to everything else.

I'm not on a high horse. I can only respond to what you wrote.

Autolycus wrote: »

*In ZOS's eyes, adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance.

You did not originally write this. You wrote:

"Autolycus wrote:

Adding a source for Major Mending in the Templar skill line merits a reduction to BoL in order to maintain balance. BoLs that are currently hitting for 25k+ on live will now hit very easily for 35k+. It makes sense that they would reduce the number of targets BoL can hit to accommodate this. An alternative option would be to reduce the healing effectiveness overall for BoL and keep 3 targets, though I doubt this change would merit any less of a negative response from the majority of Templars.

That's you. Not Zos's eyes. How is that semantics? How am I to just suppose that what you write is not your perspective if you do not say so?

I'm not attacking you for something I missed. I am disagreeing with what you have written there and pointing our facts that you are not considering. Disagreement is not personal. You say 25K BoL will hit for 35K. How? Right now my best breath of life gets a 30% modification. On the PTS my best breath of life gets 25% modification. You keep touting how great major mending is and you treat it as an additive buff. But you do not account for the 30% modification to heals that templars currently get on LivE from the Focused healing passive. How can you talk of balancing when you are not considering all the variables for Breath of life from LiVE to the PTS?

That's not me being on a high horse. That's not me attacking you. That's me disagreeing with your assessment because you are not considering a key variable

Yes, the new passive does modify additional sources of healing. But what I responded to was a conversation about Breath of Life. Because whatever a restoration staff can do in the next patch isn't going to help those templars who do not want to use them. That's a different topic.

Your final comment was this:

"Factoring in Major Mending, BoL still has the same total healing output across two targets rather than three. This isn't a nerf; it's rebalancing.

Again, you are only factoring in major mending and what you say is only true if the current Focused healing is completely taken out of the equation. That's not re-balancing. That's not considering all the variables.

None of this should be taken personally. I am pointing out facts you are not mentioning and I can't be expected to assume stuff that you meant to write but did not put on these forums.

Edit: I was wrong to say you want boL nerfed. Admit. But your overall analysis is incorrect because you never take into account the focused healing passive.

I dont hear anyone arguing that NBs should be nerfed so Templars can do more sneaking/ invisibility or stealth burst damage.

I dont hear anyone arguing that DKs should be nerfed so NBs can do more fire damage and fire based dots.

But Templar heals MUST be nerfed so other classes can heal as well as them.

Sorry - thats not fair.

Honestly - I thought Templars already had Major Mending. If you say they dont - thats even worse. Shows even less consideration for Templars.

Endenium wrote: »

First off, my apologies if this is a duplicate discussion, but I looked for this topic and didnt it see anywhere.

Second, I understand that class changes are always controversial and come with a predictable amount of whining. That's not what this thread is.

Third, Ill be honest, Templar is by far my favorite class. So I am sure I have a certain amount of bias for them.

That being said, I fully support the decision to achieve class balance for healers. Templars have long been the #1 healers. Thats a good thing. They are fantastic healers. I would say they set the bar for healing. They are the standard. Therefore, I think the Breath of Life nerf is a bad decision. Its probably the best healing ability in the game and it sets the bar for what healing in ESO should be. So, if the goal is balancing healers across classes, this nerf is the wrong approach.

Rather than nerfing Templar heals, DK, Sorc, and NB heals should be buffed to the standard of Templars - who are already close to perfection. Templar heals are not the problem. The problem is the inability of other classes to heal as effectively.

Thoughts? Comments? Agree? Disagree?

Don't mess with perfection.

disagree, for instance if sorcs healed as good as templars but also have better mobility,shields, cc ... that isnt balance its just making magia templar irrelevant.

Endenium wrote: »

Joy Division mentioned "Focused Healing" - thats what I was thinking of.

But now Im confused. Are Templars keeping Focused Healing and getting Major Mending ON TOP of that?

If thats the case, it could make up for the BOL nerf.

If not, then theres no way I can consider the BOL change "rebalancing".

This is why there is so much confusion and why I felt the need to comment in this thread in the first place.

On Live right now, Templars have the Focus Healing Passive that increases breath of life by 30% for rune focus and purifying ritual.
Word for word: "Increases the healing effects from your Restoring Light abilities by 30% to allies standing in an areas of protection created by Rite of Passage, Cleansing Ritual and Rune Focus."

On the PTS, this passive is getting changed. The 30% is going away and is getting replaced by the major mending buff that adds 25% to all healing done.

So it's not a straight additive 25%. Templars are losing the 30% bonus as it is getting replaced by a standard 25% bonus. It's a net loss of 5%.

So the comments stating breath of life will be stronger or rebalanced because of the passive is not true. On Live, BoL can get a 30% buff. On the PTS, BoL can get a 25% buff. Breath's top heal will heal for less. Breath is losing one heal. Nerfed. No matter how you cut it.