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Magma Shell (or the 'new barrier') is too strong.
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Francescolg✭✭✭✭sry, inintentional double post because of forum-software
Edited by Francescolg on February 9, 2016 3:21PM0 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Will this change make this morph better on a solo player than Corrosive Armor? I know the Synergy does a solo player no good but now have the choice of a shield or attacks ignoring armor???
If so, as a mostly solo player I believe that there should be choices and taking away Synergies seems to take away the choice of benefiting the person or the group. Or am I looking at this wrong? Is this something group players are concerned about?Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Will this change make this morph better on a solo player than Corrosive Armor? I know the Synergy does a solo player no good but now have the choice of a shield or attacks ignoring armor???
If so, as a mostly solo player I believe that there should be choices and taking away Synergies seems to take away the choice of benefiting the person or the group. Or am I looking at this wrong? Is this something group players are concerned about?
No the synergy was removed from magma shell and now a damage shield will only apply to nearby allies fr 100% of there health not you. So if you're a solo player corrosive armor is still the better one for you because both armors cap y=the damage you receive for 3% of your max health just one helps allies with a damage shield while the other helps you with 100% physical penetration.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it
BWAHH! NO!?
honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.
comparing the two:
(Remembrance morph)
-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)
(Magma shell morph)
-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.
I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective and has much better scaling but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.
but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.
This comparison blew my mind.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭I assumed it was capped like barrier. Is it not? If that is true then just cap it at 6.
Also, does this stack with barrier? Just curious.0 -
TotterTates✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »I assumed it was capped like barrier. Is it not? If that is true then just cap it at 6.
Also, does this stack with barrier? Just curious.
It is capped and does stack with barrier.Cuppincakes- Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
It's not too strong at all. It's a class ultimate it should be strong. I would actually like to see Negate fixed so that it's actually useful again, but I don't think this should be nerfed.Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.
This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.
Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.
Well the problem about it is just that nobody in PvP will use Barrier in Zergs anymore because this Ultimate is doing everything that barrier does, just better and with special effects. If you buff one ultimate that was previously useless and nerf another one that was useful you have the same outcome. 1 useful Ultimate - 1 useless Ultimate. And I'm sure there are ways to make both of them useful.
Giving that morph 100% spell penetration instead was a good suggestion.
Why can't you use both? For instance my sorc doesn't have this ability, but he does have barrier. Why would I stop using barrier just because someone else's class ult is "better"?:trollin:0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭silence... it's fine... DK's need this..
Barrier is still far better....
100% of max HP is not alot when considering my barrier shields for 40K...
Yeah, and my HP is only 16k in PvE and 20k in PvP.... My own class ward is better than that.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on February 9, 2016 5:00PM:trollin:1 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭TotterTates wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »I assumed it was capped like barrier. Is it not? If that is true then just cap it at 6.
Also, does this stack with barrier? Just curious.
It is capped and does stack with barrier.
if thats true i have no probelm with the changes. I think it is legit. Maybe not stack with barrier, but even still it adds more group diversity by adding more dks.0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haven't used this much yet in PTS but two changes that could balance it
- barrier affects 8 people, double than shell, but ultimate given back caps at 6.
- barrier is not effected by battle spirit (magma she'll is only 50% max life in PVP correct?)0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it
BWAHH! NO!?
honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.
comparing the two:
(Remembrance morph)
-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)
(Magma shell morph)
-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.
I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective and has much better scaling but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.
but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.
You are forgetting a shield is worth much more than a heal. Yes Shields have no mitigation but you CANNOT CRIT on shields and pretty much all proccs and sets have no effect on them, which is stronger than any mitigation.
About every set and procc now does affect shields. The only set not working on shields coming to mind currently is winterborn.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
You all should really do some testing before coming on here to complain. Magma shell is capped at 6 players just like barrier, is less of shield then barrier and even worse doesn't even work with multiple DKS using it. We had our group on PTS stack and had 3 DKS pop magma and the game gave the shield to people who already had one, not stacking the shield just plain overiding it rendering the ultimate completely useless even in PVE trials. Now if the ultimate gave the shield to people who were not already effected by it then yes the ultimate would be useful as a group and 12 could stack and two DKS could cover the entire group with a shield but such is not the case.
TLDR : magma shield is horrible and needs to be fixed0 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Francescolg wrote: »Combined with their ability to reflect mostly all (yes - 4 is a big number) projectiles, DKs will love to become a "battle healer".. (skill-less spamming/making of absorb shields)
We already have an armor from the ic-patch with a very similar (group bubble) shield proc..
We get sets as Trinimac's Valor, which can proc VERY often, if group/single bubbles are spammed (or proc, etc.)..
Now, imagine what a DK with Trinimac's Valor will do all day long in PvP, in his skill-full zerg group!
What if making all those bubbles could even be better and more effective than "classic healing" (spot heal, HoTs, Breath of Life, AE-heals)?
Have you guys at Zenimax ever played PvP? (if not, why not?)
Have you not seen those dev play vids? They are even more useless then some of the streamers.This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.2 -
BEZDNA✭✭✭✭Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.
This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.
Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.
Dude can you bother to spend some time testing and doing math before making silly forum topics? Why magma shell is to strong? Why it's much batter then barrier? Any arguments here? If you think that magma shell is way to strong then prove it, but don't make such a silly posts.
After looking deep at that problem i'm pretty much agree with Cinbri:Barrier cap on 6 targets, Magma cap on 6 targets. Barrier add additional bonuses like ultimates return, Magma provide original bonus to dk, cost is equal. Barrier = Magma Armor.
On top of that barrier is 30 sec and shield from magma shell is like 10 sec if i'm corect. And Barrier is bigger shield in most cases then shield from Magma Armor.
So i still don't get it, why does magma shell is way to strong?2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):
This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.
This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.
Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.
Dude can you bother to spend some time testing and doing math before making silly forum topics? Why magma shell is to strong? Why it's much batter then barrier? Any arguments here? If you think that magma shell is way to strong then prove it, but don't make such a silly posts.
After looking deep at that problem i'm pretty much agree with Cinbri:Barrier cap on 6 targets, Magma cap on 6 targets. Barrier add additional bonuses like ultimates return, Magma provide original bonus to dk, cost is equal. Barrier = Magma Armor.
On top of that barrier is 30 sec and shield from magma shell is like 10 sec if i'm corect. And Barrier is bigger shield in most cases then shield from Magma Armor.
So i still don't get it, why does magma shell is way to strong?
I am curious if the new cap and shields, purge, etc work like aoe caps. Meaning, if you hit a group of 12 repetedly with an aoe you may never hit the same person twice. The dispersement is random. Does barrier, purge, magma operate like aoe just hitting any random target within the group regardless if they need ito and simply just replenishing a barrier they still have? Or, does it operate. Like smart heals giving it to who needs it in the group?
Basically, if a group of 12 pops barrier from 2 different people, is it a guarentee that it will hit all 12 or will some miss out do to random allocation of the effects?
I will eventually teat myself later this week, but wasn't sure if people had any idea now.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Have you tested this skill before making these assumptions about how this skill will be?Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1