OdinForge wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

For those thinking there won't be counters, let me remind people that there are sets that will help combat high dmg/meteor( this means tanks have a reason to be viable in cyro):

1)Brands of Imperium set: (5 items) 6% chance when taking damage to grant yourself and nearby allies a 12040 Damage Shield that lasts for 8 seconds. This effect has a cooldown of 15 seconds.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Brands+of+Imperium+Set

2) Jolting Arm set: 15% chance when blocking an attack to charge your arms, causing your next Bash attack to deal 5805 Shock Damage as well as granting yourself 6450 Spell Resistance for 6 seconds.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Jolting+Arms+Set

3) Reactive set: (stam users will be key counters to meteor now!) (5 items) While affected by Stun, Immobilize, Fear, Knockdown or Disorient effects, damage you take is reduced by 35%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Reactive+Armor+Set

4) Para Bellum: 5 items) After not taking damage for 10 seconds gain a 12040 Damage Shield.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Para+Bellum+Set

5) parah set:(weakest of the bunch but phy and spell resistance for 3-4 pc isn't bad) 5 items) Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mark+of+the+Pariah+Set

6)bastion set (not sure worth testing though): VR 14 yellow armor wouldn't be too bad
(5 items) Reduce damage taken from siege weapons and player AoE spells by 20%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bastion+of+the+Heartland+Set

7) :beckoning steel (this is the set to test via PTS. If it works, your tanks will be happy to be useful again.) (5 items) 40% to intercept projectiles for allies within 5m
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Beckoning+Steel+Set

8) footman set: 5 items) Increase block mitigation by 12%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Footman's+Fortune+Set

9) juggernaut : (not ideal, but two health bonuses are nice)5items) When Health drops below 30%, heal for 12900. This effect can occur once every 1 minute
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Juggernaut+Set

Some are better than others. But there are the possible counters to meteor worth testing.
You can also just use block? I guess.

Is this even a serious post?

Minno wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

For those thinking there won't be counters, let me remind people that there are sets that will help combat high dmg/meteor( this means tanks have a reason to be viable in cyro):

1)Brands of Imperium set: (5 items) 6% chance when taking damage to grant yourself and nearby allies a 12040 Damage Shield that lasts for 8 seconds. This effect has a cooldown of 15 seconds.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Brands+of+Imperium+Set

2) Jolting Arm set: 15% chance when blocking an attack to charge your arms, causing your next Bash attack to deal 5805 Shock Damage as well as granting yourself 6450 Spell Resistance for 6 seconds.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Jolting+Arms+Set

3) Reactive set: (stam users will be key counters to meteor now!) (5 items) While affected by Stun, Immobilize, Fear, Knockdown or Disorient effects, damage you take is reduced by 35%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Reactive+Armor+Set

4) Para Bellum: 5 items) After not taking damage for 10 seconds gain a 12040 Damage Shield.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Para+Bellum+Set

5) parah set:(weakest of the bunch but phy and spell resistance for 3-4 pc isn't bad) 5 items) Increases your Physical and Spell Resistance by up to 8514 based on your missing Health.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mark+of+the+Pariah+Set

6)bastion set (not sure worth testing though): VR 14 yellow armor wouldn't be too bad
(5 items) Reduce damage taken from siege weapons and player AoE spells by 20%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Bastion+of+the+Heartland+Set

7) :beckoning steel (this is the set to test via PTS. If it works, your tanks will be happy to be useful again.) (5 items) 40% to intercept projectiles for allies within 5m
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Beckoning+Steel+Set

8) footman set: 5 items) Increase block mitigation by 12%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Footman's+Fortune+Set

9) juggernaut : (not ideal, but two health bonuses are nice)5items) When Health drops below 30%, heal for 12900. This effect can occur once every 1 minute
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Juggernaut+Set

Some are better than others. But there are the possible counters to meteor worth testing.
You can also just use block? I guess.

Is this even a serious post?

Don't see why not it wouldn't be.

Main things we've been asking for this patch:

1) gear/build diversity:
2) chance to burst larger raids to overcome AOE caps
3) skill consistency.

Some of those sets are not being used because our current build trend is to stack resource for dps and ignore anything else. Some of those sets give you a bonus to block which is an obvious counter to meteor (that's assuming meteor will be heavily prevailing and players spamming it.)

Meteor unreflective adheres to those 3 points. And believe it or not, this patch has a level of balance to it if you can accept your build will need to have a level of survivability at expense of DPS. It's almost as if ZOS was implementating a general softcaps utilizing various skill reconfigures/gear choices by forcing obscene amounts of dmg to certain skills and making them accessible.

Hate this comment, but this patch puts importance on health/stam/magicka utility over DPS.

Minno wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs

As Fengrush put it:

If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them

Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you

On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be

The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.

This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps

Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.

If your group of 6 or 8 people dropping 6 or 8 meteors with an additional 6-8 Proxies going off and you can't wipe a "ball group" or "zerg" then you need to L2P and this will not help you at all.

Fengrush has issues with healing, this meteor change and change to Proxy Det don't do anything to help him with that. Hell he doesn't even use Proxy Det...

Are the two of you just pulling this out of your rear about what ZOS and Wrobel wanted? Or do you actually have something to back this up?

Do you need us to hound for a comment? Or should we read the notes, test the skills, and compare everything between how we are currently playing with what the player base focused on voicing?

A build shouldnt have to always have prox det on their bar in order to burst players down. Meteor helps a build that can't fit prox det achieve prox det lvl burst. It opens up the diversity (which the overall player base wanted). It gives players like Fengrush a way to burst a healer and nulify healing.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs

As Fengrush put it:

If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them

Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you

On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be

The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.

This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps

Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.

Minno wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs

As Fengrush put it:

If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them

Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you

On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be

The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.

This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps

Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.

If your group of 6 or 8 people dropping 6 or 8 meteors with an additional 6-8 Proxies going off and you can't wipe a "ball group" or "zerg" then you need to L2P and this will not help you at all.

Fengrush has issues with healing, this meteor change and change to Proxy Det don't do anything to help him with that. Hell he doesn't even use Proxy Det...

Are the two of you just pulling this out of your rear about what ZOS and Wrobel wanted? Or do you actually have something to back this up?

Do you need us to hound for a comment? Or should we read the notes, test the skills, and compare everything between how we are currently playing with what the player base focused on voicing?

A build shouldnt have to always have prox det on their bar in order to burst players down. Meteor helps a build that can't fit prox det achieve prox det lvl burst. It opens up the diversity (which the overall player base wanted). It gives players like Fengrush a way to burst a healer and nulify healing.

Yes please.

A better explanation could rather be that this reflecting of meteors caused too much stress on the servers so they took it out to alleviate the performance backlash from it. I can back it up with the same stuff that you used for your assumptions.

Good, so now we went from needing 1 of 10 skills on a bar, to 1 of 2 ultimates to burst people down...

It literally does nothing for diversity, how do you not understand that this will be the chosen ultimate of those who are a DPS role? If anything it decreases the diversity.

Fengrush was already using Meteor against healers, more often than not without reflect. Using him as an example doesn't work.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @Zos_BrianWheeler for next ESO Live could we get a rundown of the design intent for the changes?

@Takllin DPS builds are using take flight, dawnbreaker, bats, meteor, and wearwolf for initial burst into their rotations.
Besides the obvious counters to the other skills, all except meteor are used in higher volume. Due to reflectable nature of meteor, its not used unless you can cover your bases. Such a disincentive for staff dps builds that rely on distance and positioning; using any other ultimate does not synergize with the playstyle since you have to get close.

Meteor is vital for these builds. Your melee build is not going to use meteor unless it requires the burst dps. With destro staff having reduced dmg over regen bonus and most of its spells reflectable already, it makes sense for the only ultimate that is a target based ranged skill to always hit its mark (at 200 ulti cost, dmg blockable, and dmg mitigated by one CP star.)

Mikmak wrote: »

...

Minno wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

These changes were made to force people to either spend more into health, use sets with defensive bonuses, and to counter zergs

As Fengrush put it:

If I open up on a ball group by suprise I should be able to kill them

Know what that means? If your 24 man is taking a flag and my 6-8 man catches you by suprise and meteors you times 8 and proxy det whatever, I should kill you

On live this isn't possible, on pts it will be

The changes to proxy det, meteor, and siege were directly aimed at ball groups and zergs.

This was Wrobels way of sorta giving guys like Fengrush what they wanted without removing AOE caps

Make no mistake small groups like Fengrush will have an easier time busting these groups then it is on live especially in open world as smart siege will now be viable and charging a choke or breach will be suicide, long overdue. Meteor is just icing on the cake.

If your group of 6 or 8 people dropping 6 or 8 meteors with an additional 6-8 Proxies going off and you can't wipe a "ball group" or "zerg" then you need to L2P and this will not help you at all.

Fengrush has issues with healing, this meteor change and change to Proxy Det don't do anything to help him with that. Hell he doesn't even use Proxy Det...

Are the two of you just pulling this out of your rear about what ZOS and Wrobel wanted? Or do you actually have something to back this up?

Do you need us to hound for a comment? Or should we read the notes, test the skills, and compare everything between how we are currently playing with what the player base focused on voicing?

A build shouldnt have to always have prox det on their bar in order to burst players down. Meteor helps a build that can't fit prox det achieve prox det lvl burst. It opens up the diversity (which the overall player base wanted). It gives players like Fengrush a way to burst a healer and nulify healing.

Yes please.

A better explanation could rather be that this reflecting of meteors caused too much stress on the servers so they took it out to alleviate the performance backlash from it. I can back it up with the same stuff that you used for your assumptions.

Good, so now we went from needing 1 of 10 skills on a bar, to 1 of 2 ultimates to burst people down...

It literally does nothing for diversity, how do you not understand that this will be the chosen ultimate of those who are a DPS role? If anything it decreases the diversity.

Fengrush was already using Meteor against healers, more often than not without reflect. Using him as an example doesn't work.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @Zos_BrianWheeler for next ESO Live could we get a rundown of the design intent for the changes?

@Takllin DPS builds are using take flight, dawnbreaker, bats, meteor, and wearwolf for initial burst into their rotations.
Besides the obvious counters to the other skills, all except meteor are used in higher volume. Due to reflectable nature of meteor, its not used unless you can cover your bases. Such a disincentive for staff dps builds that rely on distance and positioning; using any other ultimate does not synergize with the playstyle since you have to get close.

Meteor is vital for these builds. Your melee build is not going to use meteor unless it requires the burst dps. With destro staff having reduced dmg over regen bonus and most of its spells reflectable already, it makes sense for the only ultimate that is a target based ranged skill to always hit its mark (at 200 ulti cost, dmg blockable, and dmg mitigated by one CP star.)

Um what?

The whole point is that meteor has always worked well and you just had to pick you targets wisely, time your cc's or counter reflect before it hit...now you don't have to do any of that except maybe cc if the target is trying to block.

Unless this change was made for server performance issues (which i've said before i'll accept any change for that reason) there was no reason to change meteor...and if it was made for server performance reasons i'll be curious to see if the increased number of people using it out weighs any positive effect of removing the reflections.

I'm having a very tough time following all of your arguments for this change Minno.

Leovolao wrote: »

wharf wrote: »

I vote for meteor being reflectable. Making this change takes a layer of skill out of the game and like others have said every single person in cyrodial will be using meteor now...not a good change at all.

A layer of skill? Give me a break, the only thing that has changed is that instead of using your reflect, you have to block when you see the big glowy crap on your feet.
And please spare me the oh you want an I win button type comment, I've been dealing with not being able to reflect meteor since forever.

Jura23 wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

wharf wrote: »

I vote for meteor being reflectable. Making this change takes a layer of skill out of the game and like others have said every single person in cyrodial will be using meteor now...not a good change at all.

A layer of skill? Give me a break, the only thing that has changed is that instead of using your reflect, you have to block when you see the big glowy crap on your feet.
And please spare me the oh you want an I win button type comment, I've been dealing with not being able to reflect meteor since forever.

The thing is, you can block any other ultimate as well. Except they have other drawbacks as well. Meteor does not. I agree with ppl saying everybody and their mother will use meteor now, wait and see. That will be enough proof the skill is OP.

WRX wrote: »

You guys won't find any sympathy from tea pot. He is a Jamaican, exceptionally hardcore.

As for meteor, Ill still run ultis like bats or banners for bombs with proxy. I can count on my hands the number of times I have actually got a meteor reflected at me. Do I think it should be relfectable, probably. But such is life.

Mikmak wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

wharf wrote: »

I vote for meteor being reflectable. Making this change takes a layer of skill out of the game and like others have said every single person in cyrodial will be using meteor now...not a good change at all.

A layer of skill? Give me a break, the only thing that has changed is that instead of using your reflect, you have to block when you see the big glowy crap on your feet.
And please spare me the oh you want an I win button type comment, I've been dealing with not being able to reflect meteor since forever.

The thing is, you can block any other ultimate as well. Except they have other drawbacks as well. Meteor does not. I agree with ppl saying everybody and their mother will use meteor now, wait and see. That will be enough proof the skill is OP.

I agree it will be too strong, I'm just not being a drama queen about it. I don't mind if they change it back (provided they change the double reflect too). I think it's funny people saying it removes a layer of skill in the game, while being completetly on board with the double reflect thing.
People cried about ball groups and zergs, literally dozens of threads and salty tears about it. ZoS catered to that and naturally they messed it up (go figure), now people should just enjoy their zerg busting skills and stop crying over it.

Maybe i'm missing something but the ability to reflect meteor and zerg busting has never had anything to do with one another...there are and still will be more effective ways to break up a group.

Aleraon wrote: »

meteor is not a projectile which is what dragon fire scale reflects. Its an ultimate that falls from the sky and therefore should not be reflectable.