So reducing AP needed for alliance skills to cater for pvers, but what about pvpers and und?

Wollust · February 2016

AOECAPS wrote: »

Nah I'm not out of arguments but anyone that's going to show their "skill killing a mob in Elden hollow while their spamming impulse has me at a loss for words lmao. Go do a pledge and if you can't handle how weak dungeons are get on team speak and just shoot the $%!@ with your friends or go out and enjoy how tough it is when people can't stand out of stupid or are wearing green gear they picked up from questing.

You insulted me personally by saying my skilllevel is not enough for this game. I showed you otherwise (Elden hollow in 5min 40s, you said fungal or darkshade in less than 12 min as proof of a certain skilllevel.)
Why should I bother crippling my characters by myself for crappy content?
Same could be said about all the PvEers that complained about the Assault Ranks. Why complain? Just go out and pvp and earn those ranks. Now they don't really need to anymore. I don't mind. But then I'd say it's only fair to do the same with Undaunted, as ZoS clearly doesn't want to enforce people with content they don't wanna do. Or else I can't explain the 90% cut.

AOECAPS · February 2016

Wollust wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

Nah I'm not out of arguments but anyone that's going to show their "skill killing a mob in Elden hollow while their spamming impulse has me at a loss for words lmao. Go do a pledge and if you can't handle how weak dungeons are get on team speak and just shoot the $%!@ with your friends or go out and enjoy how tough it is when people can't stand out of stupid or are wearing green gear they picked up from questing.

You insulted me personally by saying my skilllevel is not enough for this game. I showed you otherwise (Elden hollow in 5min 40s, you said fungal or darkshade in less than 12 min as proof of a certain skilllevel.)
Why should I bother crippling my characters by myself for crappy content?
Same could be said about all the PvEers that complained about the Assault Ranks. Why complain? Just go out and pvp and earn those ranks. Now they don't really need to anymore. I don't mind. But then I'd say it's only fair to do the same with Undaunted, as ZoS clearly doesn't want to enforce people with content they don't wanna do. Or else I can't explain the 90% cut.

Why are you complaining about undaunted passives getting nerfed?
Btw I didn't say anything about your skill until you posted your mlg sorc 360 no scope video lol. Thankfully your epeen skill line is maxed out.

Burnsie88 · February 2016

In my opinion undaunted is not really a grind, even if you are a pvp'er. You can get 5 or 6 just by completing the dungeons just once. That's not counting the multitude of achievements as well. Just by doing the easy ones you will get to 7.

Sausage · February 2016

I hope they dont make Alliance Ranks easier. They have been the best success this game ever had, zero whining when rewards are just Titles and Skill Points. Community have whined pretty much everything else down but not Alliance Ranks, so that said, improve them instead.

CP5 · February 2016

Sausage wrote: »

I hope they dont make Alliance Ranks easier. They have been the best success this game ever had, zero whining when rewards are just Titles and Skill Points. Community have whined pretty much everything else down but not Alliance Ranks, so that said, improve them instead.

I wouldn't call a grind measured in months, per character, a success. What about people who play several alts in pvp? What about the skills that many call vital for their builds? How about the fact that pvp is being designed around those skills being used, but many people don't even have them?

Islyn · February 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Why don't PvPers understand that this is a good thing for them!

Don't you guys want more people actively engaging in PvP to make the game less stagnant? Easy kills/AP is always good

Plus, who knows? Maybe someone who was intimidated by the "PvP grind" will find that they like it and be a good addition to the PvP scene.

Worst case scenario, the "dirty PvE'ers" get their stuff and leave... Cyrodil is all yours again and you don't have to worry about them bothering you anymore.

Either way, it seems like a win-win to me.... unless your sole basic for argument is that it sucked for you, so it better suck for everyone else, in which case.... sorry bro?

Nah my arguement is in order to enjoy what i like i have to pve a lot, mage guild/fighters/undaunted etc... but i do it because it have too.

Pve want pvp skills so they can go and do more pve stuff, they don't enjoy it but they'll have to do it.

Getting a pvp character up takes a very long time, where as in this update getting pvp skills for pve players will take 3-4 days. At most.

I could max the assault/support skill line in 3-4 days on a lvl 10. It's ridiculous theres no achievement anymore.

It's not a lot. That is the point.

leepalmer95 · February 2016

CP5 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

I hope they dont make Alliance Ranks easier. They have been the best success this game ever had, zero whining when rewards are just Titles and Skill Points. Community have whined pretty much everything else down but not Alliance Ranks, so that said, improve them instead.

I wouldn't call a grind measured in months, per character, a success. What about people who play several alts in pvp? What about the skills that many call vital for their builds? How about the fact that pvp is being designed around those skills being used, but many people don't even have them?

The only skills that are 'vital' are caltraps and vigor, det and the passives aren't needed at all for anything. People can completed everything without them.

There are better aoe options for pve and such than Det. Det is only useful is pvp and it's very strong in pvp. So yes you should have to work for it 1.6m may be a bit much, a 20% reduction or something fine, but not drop the thing to 210k that ridiculous i can get that within a day, with the meteor change you know what everyone going to be spamming right? Meteor + Dets or Bat swarms + dets.

The alliance skills are the only progression pvper's have, theres nothing else, when your playing you look forward to unlocking det/vigor/caltraps, you look forward to unlocking the strong passives.

Now what do pvper's have to look forward too when everything is going to be unlocked in 670k which will take people 3-4 days up to a week for most pvpers. Don't forget the ap per kill got doubled.

Mettaricana · February 2016

Sounds like they have akaviri and progress to look forward to rather than a grind worse than the old vet ranks

Islyn · February 2016

AOECAPS wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

What's wrong with pleasing everyone now? You wanted lower AP/Rank, there you go. You got it. Now give us lower Undaunted Points/Rank. Where is the problem?
With the new changes to the assault rank it takes me 4 days max to reach Assault Rank 10 (which bears no skill or anything useful for PvE). It's outright ridiculous cutting it by 90% (almost 7 mio before new patch I believe).
Vigor and caltrops? A very casual PvP evening.

Why not the same for Undaunted?

Lol a very casual pvp evening well pledges are a very casual 30 minutes a day that's 3.5 hours in a week(can be less depending on the groups) do the undaunted PVPers are getting monster helms now for AP quite bellyaching. It's not like every Dungeon is sanctum opedia on hard mode 8 months ago. They are easy of you can't run them grab a vet1 and give him crown. I run 4 pledges aday before I pvp to get the undaunted passives it's not hard and undaunted 9 is a sleep walk compared to trying to get prox det or the last assault passive.(which I have on 3 characters) if you don't want to run dailies fine no big deal don't qq about it and don't buy a helm when it releases. Actually go play LBP might be on your skill level if you can't beat darkshade vet or fungal grotto in 12 min

You misunderstand. I am not talking about difficulty. Believe me, I play PvE in this game on another level than 99.9% of the people. I am talking about the fact that it is just another boring grind that might as well be reduced, just like the AP grind is for a lot of people boring because they don't like PvP. I don't like doing the pledges because they are awfully boring. That's it. I have 4 characters with undaunted 9, my fifth is stuck at 7 for over a month now. Simply because I get a headache from doing this ridiculous content that is not scaled whatsoever to the current powerlevel of anyone who is not a casual.
And no, I don't need to buy a helmet or a shoulder because I got all of them already.
Oh btw, getting proxy took me 8 days on my fifth character. It's not hard if you enjoy it. Same for the pledges. If you have fun, it's not going to be an issue getting undaunted 9. But then the same treatment should be applied to the undaunted passives. Maybe not a ridiculous 90% cur. But getting a compromise would be nice.

Edit: This is my reply to your little crap insult about my skilllevel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNw1SxtkHY
I am the sorc in the video. Get on my level first before you criticize me.

You're a sorc lol show me a video of you being a stamplar or Stam sorc and then I'll comment on your impressive ability lol.posting a video with the EASIEST class in the game lol.

In the easiest Delve in game, that we 2-3 man 'Hard' mode all the time with no tank xD

Mirelurk · February 2016

Having two kids under the age of nine makes it easier to understand this constant PvP v PvE cr*p on the forums.

"He got something I didn't!" ... and repeat ad nauseam

Alorier · February 2016

Wow everyone wants this that right now what you going to do in a week when there's nothing to work for Zos have to keep this game going not just give everyone end game stuff right now , all I can say is you PvPers try spending some time in PvE and that goes for you PvErs get into PvP instead of demanding this that or the other

Jura23 · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

Everyone needs to Just Stop. Good God.

Go without the Undaunted passives then if it's that hard.

It's SO SHORT!!!

You can knock out most ach (in Vat you need Speed, No Deaths etc. nonvet: All Group Dungeons, scale to lvl 25 or whatever and nuke em all in 2 hours, go to each town and buy Undaunted a drink) etc in ONE DAY and that will get you to like mid lvl 7 then 30 min a day for maybe 2 weeks and done.

You can collect all Mages Guild books in a day. Easy.

FG? For real? Put ANY FG skills on your bar whilst doing the Undaunted shizzle (AKA Kill Daedra) and done.

Burnsie88 wrote: »

In my opinion undaunted is not really a grind, even if you are a pvp'er. You can get 5 or 6 just by completing the dungeons just once. That's not counting the multitude of achievements as well. Just by doing the easy ones you will get to 7.

It is grind. I did it. First, you have to learn the vet dungeons or look up guides. That only is annoying. THen you have to find ppl to complete them with, which is not easy. It can take even couple of hours to finish the dungeon with some groups. It is very annoying grind for some ppl, just accept this.

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO · February 2016

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Plus, who knows? Maybe someone who was intimidated by the "PvP grind" will find that they like it and be a good addition to the PvP scene.

I really hope this happens sometimes, I gave up years ago trying to convince my friends PvP is exciting and unpredictable, for some reason they laugh it off when killed by a mob, but die to a player and it's the end of the world for them.

Haquor · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

I agree that it should only take the same amount of time to grind up undaunted 9 as it will to grind up assault 10.

you do realise tho that that would require an INCREASE in xp required to hit undaunted 9? It is so easy and NOT time consuming to cap undaunted.

it literally takes you completing all dungeons (about 15 minutes tops per and a Skill Point! which lets face it... most people do for skill points) and then do about 25 minutes a day in pledges for like 2 weeks. 25 minutes a day for 2 weeks..... that is less than the average pvper who according to zos gets on average 10k ap per night(less than 20k with the double xp rewards for player kills). like 15 nights or something to get proxy(not assault 10...but 7).

To get maxed assault rank is double that.

think about what you are asking.

end result. regardless of if you people want to admit it or not....regardless of whatever arguments you put forward to justify your rediculous demands... undaunted 9 on average takes less time and effort to achieve than even the projected ap requirememts for assault/support skill max level.

MUCH less time and effort.

But yeah ZOS please do some maths and workout average times to achieve the 600k or so AP and then the average ingame time to reach undaunted 9 and adjust undaunted accordingly. it will be hilarious.

Oldmanlawlor · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

Wouldn't dedicated PVP players already have their abilities?

I'm sure it's for enticing pve players to get into PVP. That seems rather obvious to me.
ZOS aren't conspiring against us as PVE players dude.

Islyn · February 2016

Mirelurk wrote: »

Having two kids under the age of nine makes it easier to understand this constant PvP v PvE cr*p on the forums.

"He got something I didn't!" ... and repeat ad nauseam

Mom to 9 year old twins. Yep.

Cherryblossom · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

Everyone needs to Just Stop. Good God.

Go without the Undaunted passives then if it's that hard.

It's SO SHORT!!!

You can knock out most ach etc in ONE DAY and that will get you to like mid lvl 7 then 30 min a day for maybe 2 weeks (I'd have to add it up to be exactly sure) and done.

You need All Vet Dungeons, Speed, No Deaths etc.

OPTIONAL, for less days of pledges, You can also grind out the other 50pt ones by going to the listed dungeons and killing those listed mobs. 50pts ea. (I've never done that, because it was leveled easy enough)

Nonvet: All Group Dungeons, scale to lvl 25 or whatever and nuke em all in 2 hours, then go to each town and buy Undaunted a drink. You also get freebie 150pts just for doing all Group Dungeons in all factions.

Don't worry about delves/public dungeons they don't count.

You can collect all Mages Guild books in a day. Easy.

FG? For real? Put ANY FG skills on your bar whilst doing the Undaunted shizzle (AKA Kill Daedra) and done.

I've tried to find groups to do Dungeons using the GF, they either fall apart before starting or never start.
Been playing since launch and not one of my toons is above rank 2 undaunted!

There is no real incentive to run dungeons, you don't get anything for them, other than bad RNG. ZOS needs to improve the loot system.

smacx250 · February 2016

This: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2667475/#Comment_2667475

olsborg · February 2016

Oldmanlawlor wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

Wouldn't dedicated PVP players already have their abilities?

I'm sure it's for enticing pve players to get into PVP. That seems rather obvious to me.
ZOS aren't conspiring against us as PVE players dude.

You dont get und xp for pvping.

Autolycus · February 2016

When ZOS announced that they'd be adding a vendor for monster helms, there was a lot of outcry by players who had spent the time required to get the Alliance War skills and the monster helms. The concept, in essence, was that if the grind for monster helms is removed, then the grind for Alliance Ranks should be removed too. Instead of just balancing the system so that it was fair for both PvErs and PvPers, ZOS just answered the cries and made it all easy to get.

Pangnirtung · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

Maybe it can be put in the crown store so that you really don't need to put in any effort to get it?

Tomato · February 2016

I think 10 undaunted dailies should max your skill line out.

Hand_Bacon · February 2016

I'm just taking a shot in the dark, but maybe there is a plan going forward with the PvP lines.

Perhaps this is the first step, a catch-up mechanism, similar to what they did with CP. They might have something to add to these lines in the DLC after TG.

I personally think this whole discussion is tilting at windmills.

Metafae · February 2016

This is just silly. I didn't really have to make much effort to reach undaunted 9 on all 8 of my characters. Just completing the dungeons for skill points will get you most of the way. Doing certain dungeons in ways to maximize the achievements you get from them also makes the process quick.

At the same time, I worked hard to get PVP skills on those same 8 characters, and I burned out before I completed one. The two are not even comparable. Veteran City of Ash alone is worth like 100 undaunted xp if you do it right.

myrrrorb14_ESO · February 2016

Undaunted is pretty easy. Got to rank 4 without stepping into a group dungeon. All dungeon achievements count towards Undaunted for some strange reason. Public dungeons you can breeze through and grab the skill point and work towards undaunted.

AOECAPS · February 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Everyone needs to Just Stop. Good God.

Go without the Undaunted passives then if it's that hard.

It's SO SHORT!!!

You can knock out most ach etc in ONE DAY and that will get you to like mid lvl 7 then 30 min a day for maybe 2 weeks (I'd have to add it up to be exactly sure) and done.

You need All Vet Dungeons, Speed, No Deaths etc.

OPTIONAL, for less days of pledges, You can also grind out the other 50pt ones by going to the listed dungeons and killing those listed mobs. 50pts ea. (I've never done that, because it was leveled easy enough)

Nonvet: All Group Dungeons, scale to lvl 25 or whatever and nuke em all in 2 hours, then go to each town and buy Undaunted a drink. You also get freebie 150pts just for doing all Group Dungeons in all factions.

Don't worry about delves/public dungeons they don't count.

You can collect all Mages Guild books in a day. Easy.

FG? For real? Put ANY FG skills on your bar whilst doing the Undaunted shizzle (AKA Kill Daedra) and done.

I've tried to find groups to do Dungeons using the GF, they either fall apart before starting or never start.
Been playing since launch and not one of my toons is above rank 2 undaunted!

There is no real incentive to run dungeons, you don't get anything for them, other than bad RNG. ZOS needs to improve the loot system.

Group finder is hit and miss I've joined groups that can't complete fungal grotto or Like Saturday I've carried them on my little magblade shoulders face tanking the spawn of mephala and soloing the final boss with resto staff. Then there are others where I used the group finder 9 times when COA was the pledge and ran through it with easy every time. The group finder is like rng except instead of good gear traits you are hoping you get paired with people that can work around dungeon mechanics and have decent to good builds to make the content easier.

reften · February 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Why even have any sort of achievement based gameplay. Why not just let people log in and have everything.

VR16 equipment is still a massive grind to get the mats. So there's that. Hitting the CP cap still takes a ton of time. Getting to VR16 is

olsborg · February 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

Maybe it can be put in the crown store so that you really don't need to put in any effort to get it?

Good idea, I support it.

Seriously tho @Pangnirtung , since they removed the pvp grind to get AP(ava) skills for pvers, they should do the same for pvper to easy up on the pve-grind to get undaunted. Its a simple matter of equality/balance. Doesnt have anything to do with "so that you really don't need to put in any effort to get it". If they didnt cut the required AP by 90% this thread wouldnt have been made.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Everyone needs to Just Stop. Good God.

Go without the Undaunted passives then if it's that hard.

It's SO SHORT!!!

You can knock out most ach etc in ONE DAY and that will get you to like mid lvl 7 then 30 min a day for maybe 2 weeks (I'd have to add it up to be exactly sure) and done.

You need All Vet Dungeons, Speed, No Deaths etc.

OPTIONAL, for less days of pledges, You can also grind out the other 50pt ones by going to the listed dungeons and killing those listed mobs. 50pts ea. (I've never done that, because it was leveled easy enough)

Nonvet: All Group Dungeons, scale to lvl 25 or whatever and nuke em all in 2 hours, then go to each town and buy Undaunted a drink. You also get freebie 150pts just for doing all Group Dungeons in all factions.

Don't worry about delves/public dungeons they don't count.

You can collect all Mages Guild books in a day. Easy.

FG? For real? Put ANY FG skills on your bar whilst doing the Undaunted shizzle (AKA Kill Daedra) and done.

I've tried to find groups to do Dungeons using the GF, they either fall apart before starting or never start.
Been playing since launch and not one of my toons is above rank 2 undaunted!

There is no real incentive to run dungeons, you don't get anything for them, other than bad RNG. ZOS needs to improve the loot system.

we just got the the point of hating PUGS that mutch that we rather don't do the dungeons then get annoyed with people who don't get into chat and are not mutch beter then jeroy jerkins

Cuyler · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

IMO undaunted mettle should be lowered to like rank 5 and require much less und xp. Pvers will need to grind much less ap to get their beloved detonation and vigor, but what about pvpers who dont like to pve?

Ok...OK...Ok sure let's decrease the undaunted mettle xp, but just give back the monster helms you didn't earn first.

You can buy monster helms now, that's what pvpers got. I don't understand why you guys are so selfish.