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Templar impression and suggestions

Cinbri
Cinbri
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I will leave it here too as it maybe too long for ordinary feedback in main thread.
Prepare to Tl;dr.
So, after almost 3 days of extensive tests with all 4 classes i ready to talk about my impression and give some suggestions. With what i experienced and witnesed my suggestions are hardly biased nor will make Templar OP, so highly reccomend ZOS to listen it :/ M
First of all regarding DLC at all - it probably will be one of the greatest DLC, first time i enjoying PvE content, also ZOS removed their mistake with sets diversity and added insane sets combos. However i mainly PvP and there as templar my impression was ruined.
What i witnessed on pts currently:
1.NBs no longer spamming Cloak to get god-mode, still hit like a trucks = nice change.
2. Sorcs still as strong as were before, got buffs to useless morphs(like giving range aoe CC with previously useless Mines morph), zos honestly tried to improve pets, not perfect but they still were buffed.
3. Dragonknights - wanna gratz them as they are back on top of PvP, i was impressed how small changes not just made them to hit harder but also increase survivability while ounumbered a lot. Last time i watched good DK dueling it was my friend Legenday Omar on template; from his 30 duels he won all 30 and just shredded all enemies there. Not to say that all templars were shredded in less than 12 seconds.(It was painfull to watch how they tried to spam Total Dark on him just to decrease damage :( ). And he really enjoying his dk now
4. Templars - with all my 100% positive expectations toward templars, what i feeling after doing tests with other classes - it is like ZOS spat in my templar face. ZOS ruined defensive mechanics and left them only with healbot build, now zos removed possibility to be most effective healbot but gave nothing in return. ZOS buffed healing outpoot of most weakest healing classes(sorc, dk), so now they all can heal/deal damage, all except templar who still can't do damage and now can't be most effective healer... Right now competitive solo PvP templar even less viable and honestly i can't believe they nerfed already weakest pvp class even more; Right now we only one who don't have major Sorcery buff nor mobility buffs, our defensive mechanics didnt buffed, we still lack of any damage mitigation ability like Major Evasion buff skill. Overall we left on bottom of pvp without our dk buddies...
I agree mostly with @Zinaroth in his thread :
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245360/stamina-templar-balancing-thread/p1
All numbers below means possible ideas, not combination of those ideas.
Aerdic Spear line
Jabs - they finally removed *** CC, so now we can have CC combos. Snare is much needed for skill and is most perfect change that could be done to Jabs. However it's damage still low and should be increased to 160% for closest target.
  • Puncturing Sweep - with current change of Focused Healing it got healing component treatment, and despite 5% of default healing nerf, i agree that it is good change, however it is useless vs damage shields as it was before, to change it they should just take code from sorc's Surge and apply it for PS so it will be able to heal through shields.
  • Biting Jabs - while PS was buffed this morph didn't get a single buff, so to balance it i suggest to implement one of those buffs on your choice:
    1. Damage to target with HP lower than 50% increased to 200%. - Since stamplars don't have class execute and can't effectively use RD, it will make this skill as execute.
    2. Add Minor Force buff. It will increase critical damage to 15%.
Javelin - very nice change and same was made for Dks Fist, so now prepare for sniping fists and spear in your face :dizzy: However in compare to Fist, this skill is pale. My suggestion:
1. Add 2 sec 50% Snare on affected target.
2. Add 2 sec root on affected target.
Charge - first of all none of all 3 bugs were completely fixed:
Stuck in animation - yes, you still stuck in animation.
GCD after using this skill - overall they indeed made this skill more responsive after casting, however after your char will land back on feets it still has 0.2-0.3 sec cooldown, and with Cyro lags it will still cause seriuos problems.
Auto-cancelling of cast - this is still a problem and must say it became even worse problem. Overall it complete fail with skill fix and claims that it will be finally fixed just a lie. :/
Blazing Spear - new added visual is good as it will allow cloak using nb to stay away from it to not be revealed. Overall animation should be increased 2x times. When you casting 2nd spear, 1st didnt land yet.
Luminous Shards - here i agree with @Zinaroth. with zero changes of resource managment, my suggestions:
  • Remove disrient component from this skill.
  • Remove mana return upon using synnergy
  • Decrease stamina return from 25% to 20%.
  • When ally activating synnergy in 6 meters radius near caster(templar), caster restoring same of stamina too.
Blazing Shield - after so long requests to probably remove Battle Spirit shield reduction from BS, nothing was made...
Radiant Ward - zos should understand that increasing additional percentage won't make this ability comparable to BS(if BS will get pvp treatment). So my suggestion:
1. Complete redo of skill, and make it to apply 20 sec Major Evasion buff on caster. It will increase survivability.
2. Complete redo of skill, and remove damage shield component from it, make it's damage dealt in 5m radius to either stun or disorient affected targets on 2 sec.
Balanced Warrior - add spelldamage buff to this passive.
Radial Sweep ultimate - increasing from 5m to 6m is nice change but it should be only the beginning.
  • Empowering Sweep - i do believe that increasing radius even further is not needed for this skill as in theory while outnumbered bigger radius mean much more damage, for current ult cost 6m is balanced. However additonal effects should be changed:
    • Remove default 15% mitigation and apply Major Protection buff(30%) for 12 sec
    • Remove additional mitigation by additional damage
    • Increase dot duration on 2 sec
    Crescent Sweep - it is still useless morph as it deal too low damage/don't have cc, suggestions:
    • Remove aoe dot from skill
    • Change it from aoe to front 10m aoe like Dawnbreaker
    • Increase damage to 50% from 33% frontal.
    • Knockdown and stun affected tagets on 5 sec.

Dawn's Wrat Line
Sun Fire/Vampire Bane - overall it is good change. Also Sun Fire dot now applying on damage shields and that making this skill a little bit more usefull vs damage shield users. Bad thing - snares from Sun Fire and Jabs are not stacking. Aslo Elemental Expert increasing initial hit damage and dot damage, while Thaumaturge increasing only dot damage.
Dark Flare - overall nice damage buff, but only for PvE or glasscannons in pvp, and thus it didnt made skill more competitive in PvP. It is still apply aoe debuff and still pull from invis, but now you must invest into Elemental Expert for Dark Trauma to deal damage that allowing you to spam it on enemy group, deal small damage but be able to proc and fill bounty quest. :)
Solar Barrage - one of the most useless and weak morphs, that for some reason didnt get 12% damage buff, also it still aplly short stuck upon cast..Depending on my suggestion of Radiant Ward, changes to SB could be in addition to get 12% buff:
1. Apply 2 sec disorient on enemies
2. Make it work as smaller version of Proximity Detonation
3. Apply 50% snare on 3 sec and apply Minor Maim+Minor Defile debuffs.
Backlash - overall i don't understand changes - it still capped at same damage but now it store less damage, thus for reaching cap you must deal much more damage. Also crits can't overflow damage cap and now Enduring Rays not affecting it = this is that *** that to fix it was decided to not allow synnergy with passive :( . This skill should be just removed and changed with any other things like aoe CC, damage reduction ability. Maybe make it as self-buff that store damage for time and releasing it is % of taken damage in 6m aoe.
Radiant Destruction/Glory - was fixed just as it should be long time ago. Also Glory got Focus Mending treatment and healing outpoot buffed, so now this morph equal and maybe more stronger than RO. No changes needed.
Eclipse - i lost my hope and abandoned this skill long time ago as it not working vs high-end enemies. Changes to Eclipse also one of the most stupid ever.
  • Total Dark - i personally didn't believe that it could be nerfed even further, i was wrong. zos made it as copy of dk Scales with 1 serious problem - it is still debuff that has 1 capped on target and can be easily cleansed/break CC. I don't understand the meaning of this change, most of ranged stamina skills are hardly a threat except Snipe, however Total Dark is still will be worst vs Snipe and mostly unusable, with this templar finally lost last melee damage mitigation skill as it not working vs meless spells, nor as i suggested vs melees stamina abilties; and with buffs of DK this change is inferior. Also right now if target Break CC, time bomb doesn't deal damage, only if TD casted on target with CC immunity. And still it has useless HP restore upon reflect. I can only suggest what other templars suggested many times already:
    1. Change it to self buff that working as Scales, each reflect restore some amount of stamina/apply small healing.
    2. Leave it as debuff with 1 cap target, removed time bomb, but being able to reflect all magicka and all stamina abilties.
  • Unstable Core - another inferior change. It is not capped with 1 target now, but damage it deal still low, in theory this skill can be used only vs 30-men train from safety when you defending castle. Also Enduring Rays passive increasing time of bomb, so if you invested into this passive it will decrease dps of this ability :/ . This need change:
    1. Either leave it as it is and remove Enduring Rays from affecting it.
    2. Depends on changes for Solar Barrage - make it work as templar smaller version of Proximity Detonation.
    3. Depends on changes for Purifying Light - make it as self-buff that store damage and releasing it in 6m aoe.
Restoring Spirit - to increase resource managment - buff it from 2%/4% to 4%/8%.
Prism/Illuminaty - add to any of this passives Minor Berserk buff.
Nova - nice damage buff, but it still not enough for 250 ultimate. I compairing this ability to Standart. Unlike Standart Nova applying damage debuff on enemies, but if there is no enemies inside effect is zero. Standart granting damage buff to caster, while Nova doing nothing. And now Shifting Standart cost was decreased to 200 while it can be moved to new location, i.e. doubling time of ultimate and Major Defile, also it means that strong shackle synergy can be used 2 times, i.e. damage of synnergy in increasing 2x times. Nova is just too pale in compare. Mu suggestion: Reduce cost to 200 ultimates.
Restoring Light line
Breath of Life - tbh i am not sad of this change as i planned to switch to Honor the Dead anyway, but anyway zos showed how bad they understand templars. They nerfed templars before so only max potential build was healbotting, now they screwed healboting and didn't give anything in return... Overall BoL was heavily nerfed however cost of spell remained the same, how is it even possible?!!! It need serious rework
Honor the Dead - after nerf hammer for BoL and buffing DKs i don't see a single reason not to switch to this morph. My only suggestion is to give back previous mana return: from 60% to 72% and probably make it stackable read my Light Weaver idea. Also add visual of floating essence round caster so it would be possible to determine if mana return proced without addons.
Healing Ritual - another bad skill and after change of Meneuver, this skill still will be useless. Only suggestions i have for it remove it or transform to self aoe hot aura like xivkin manders in IC.
Radiant Aura - another worst buff ever possible, now this skill is just copy of tri-pot. Only suggestion i can think about is making this skill as self 1 sec cast that restore stamina in cost of magicka/magicka+hp. Sorcs Dark Deal was buffed to be more usefull in PvP.
Rune Focus - overall i like that this skill is unique bround-based self-buff, however it will be harder to use coz buffed siege weapons. However since everyone got buff for mobility i believe Focus should grant speedbuff for 3 sec upon cast, increase duration of armor buff after leaving rune for 12 sec or add Major Evasion buff.
  • Channeled Focus - awesome morph coz it is only magicka sustain skill. zos must not change it to proc inside rune only.
  • Restoring Focus - i like that zos implemented it as 2 minor buffs, however with terrible mana managment for templars and working only inside rune it is till much more weaker. Suggestions:
    1. Nerf Channeled Focus to work only inside rune. :/
    2. Add to current minor buffs Minor Heroism buff. Coz templar who dare to stay on 1 place nowdays are true hero.
    3. Remove all current minor buffs and make it work similar to Channeled Focus but make it restore stamina outside rune. It will definelty help stamplars.
    4. Change Minor Protection to 15%, it will also help nbs with their Cloak morph.
Focused Healing - nice change for stamplars overall. I need only 1 suggestion for this. Previously sorcs Empowered Ward' had healing buff in it and it made hands glowing yellow. This was removed from skill just as visual. I suggest to add this visual to templar Focused Healing passive so it would be more visually friendly to see if buff still on you as not everyone use buff addons.
Master Ritualist - nothing was changed so cheesy kagrenac templars still working. I suggest to fully revamp this passive and make it restore 5% stamina upon using Restoring Light skills.
Light Weaver - very week passive.
  • Instead of increase duration it should increase Radiant Aura/Repentance effectivenes overall.
  • Instead of proccing ultimate with Healing Ritual it should proc while healing under 60% with Rushed Ceremony.
Rite of Passage - like rest of ultimates it is very weak and still didn't get a single buff :/ NB Soul Siphon was buffed. And Dks Magma Armor was heavily buffed too, so Templar ultimate must get same treatment. Just watch on new Magma Armor Anything i can think about is it should restore some amount of resources and grant Major Vitality buff to affected allies. Buff Remembrance damage mitigation back from 20 to 30%.
Thats is pretty most of my brainstorming regarding Templar.


Edited by Cinbri on February 6, 2016 8:20PM
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    One thing that has really struck me during the PTS process is how different the perspectives of people who main templars and people who do not. It it really difficult to communicate those elements, factors, circumstances, and contingencies that make using our class skills as ZoS intended impractical.

    Will the majority of templars who read this thread think to themselves, "yep, spot on" because we are biased, only looking out for our own builds, or are involved in some secret society dedicated to the overthrow of our NB, sorcerer, and (now) DK overlords? Or is it because we have spent so much times playing that we know the cast time on healing ritual undermines the intent of the spell such that no matter how super-efficient the mana to heal ratio is (and it is very good), using BoL or healing springs is just much more practical for the majority of the situations we will face? Or that we have used radial sweep enough to know if often misses targets in its area of effect and have used enough other ultimates to recognize sweep feels more like an ordinary ability? Or that a 1% increase to a specific morph of an already weak shield that has a 6 second duration won't all of a sudden make it be able to mitigate more than a single basic attack from an enemy player?

    I have not as yet done extensive testing. I dueled for a couple of hours on the PTS and I felt naked because the purifying nerf, the eclipse change from all spells to just projectiles, and the whole have to stand in the rune focus thing meant my ability to sustain/mitigate/defend took a huge hit. Will flesh out a more detailed feedback for ZoS after I try a few more things. I do my myself in agreement with much of the OP.
    Edited by Joy_Division on February 6, 2016 5:11PM
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • CP5
    CP5
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    Nice post for a templar's perspective OP. As someone who has templars but never focused heavily on them I feel that your points are still accurate. A few nit-pick points about things like biting jabs, javelin and total dark don't seem that accurate but aside from those I think that most of these changes would fit well in the game and make the class more interesting to use.
  • Kas
    Kas
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    One thing that has really struck me during the PTS process is how different the perspectives of people who main templars and people who do not. It it really difficult to communicate those elements, factors, circumstances, and contingencies that make using our class skills as ZoS intended impractical.

    Will the majority of templars who read this thread think to themselves, "yep, spot on" because we are biased, only looking out for our own builds, or are involved in some secret society dedicated to the overthrow of our NB, sorcerer, and (now) DK overlords? Or is it because we have spent so much times playing that we know the cast time on healing ritual undermines the intent of the spell such that no matter how super-efficient the mana to heal ratio is (and it is very good), using BoL or healing springs is just much more practical for the majority of the situations we will face? Or that we have used radial sweep enough to know if often misses targets in its area of effect and have used enough other ultimates to recognize sweep feels more like an ordinary ability? Or that a 1% increase to a specific morph of an already weak shield that has a 6 second duration won't all of a sudden make it be able to mitigate more than a single basic attack from an enemy player?

    I have not as yet done extensive testing. I dueled for a couple of hours on the PTS and I felt naked because the purifying nerf, the eclipse change from all spells to just projectiles, and the whole have to stand in the rune focus thing meant my ability to sustain/mitigate/defend took a huge hit. Will flesh out a more detailed feedback for ZoS after I try a few more things. I do my myself in agreement with much of the OP.

    to me it's this:

    1) even if i achieve kinda similar results on my templar and on my twinks (lately I've just been more effective playing nb/sorc), I feel like there is so littel to do differently. I've tried a lot, including pots wiht immovable and major expedition to outmove other meeles. still there are times where i just die on my templar. often, there are losses where I could name nothing that I should have done differently. Whereas if I die on my sorc/nb, I always know at least a few things that I didn't play perfectly.

    2) even if I have no chance to win a fight on my templar, I can sometimes tank/kite multiple players for quite some time and reliably bring them to 50% (and maybe kill a noob who joins the fight). other think of the templar as a stong opponent, tanking tons of damage and dealing quite a bit in the process. yet, i know there is no chance that I could produce a killing blow in that fight (at least when on my own).
    @bbu - AD/EU
    Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
    Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
    Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
    + many others
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