"I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well..."

Vildebill · February 2016

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

MrDerrikk · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

I don't necessarily believe this, but that you should have to actually run the content and pay a lot more for the helms/shoulders. They're meant to be endgame items, so giving them away for the equivalent of a good afternoons grinding is not a good idea.

I'm having a pretty good time (burnt out because I've done most things already though, so waiting for TG) and I wish others to too, but making it too easy to get the endgame gear/levels is the wrong idea, as people will burn out much much faster.

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

The thing is when you do grind your ass off and get that item you want it feels like you accomplished something. So why would anyone go through the struggle of doing hard content if they can just wait a couple months and buy the item? It's not about wanting others to suffer look at it like this, imagine you spent all summer working your ass off you finally got enough money saved up and you got a car then the day after you bought it your parents got your brother a car because they didn't want him to feel bad. Sure you are happy your brother has a car of his own but still it is annoying that he is just handed something for nothing.

Tavore1138 · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

I think your view is mistaken and your negative characterisation of everyone who thinks that rewards should be earned is a little cheap.

Basically if everything good is handed out cheaply then many people will not feel the same level of pleasure at getting the reward whether it be that head piece with divines or alliance rank 10 or any other pleasure of achieving something in a game (or indeed life).

Achievements and rewards are meaningful because they require effort to attain - for most humans if they are just handed something for nothing it will not feel as valuable. Imagine if you just logged into the game on your first time playing and all your achievements were pre-completed - would you feel a sense of pride or a sense of frustration? I think for most of us it would be the latter.

I've played since launch and I've done a lt of the things you can do in this game but there are things I have not yet managed and I am glad about that because it adds to my motivation to keep playing - if those things were suddenly half as hard then that would be less fun to finally complete them.

And having said that - yes I am sure there are some who feel annoyed that others will have to do less, not out of spite but because it actually takes away their pleasure in their own efforts to achieve something that was hard only t see others get an easier path to the same achievements. It devalues what they have achieved in a very real way - it's not about denying pleasure to others but resenting having your own sense of achievement taken away because others want a short cut.

I played a game once that handled this well by changing how an achievement appeared on someone's character record if it was done before or after a major change - thus allowing the game to be made over for people to get things qu98icker while allowing those who did it the 'hard way' to retain a visible symbol of that. Stopped a lot of this ill feeling.

Vildebill · February 2016

@MrDerrikk @EnemyOfDaState @SuraklinPrime

You all have valid points and i agree with you. I don't want anything to handed out for free, and as you guys have stated, of course you should have to work for your stuff to feel that you have accomplished something. It's not good for anyone to have things for free since you don't learn to work for your stuff, that often makes you a lazy person.

My point is that ZOS are making a change that a lot of people have requested, no one can have missed all the threads and rants about RNG and the wall of grind to alliance skills. The Undaunted vendor is still random, and we haven't got any details of the alliance points more than "Significantly reduced the amount of Alliance Points you need to advance through the ranks in this skill line.". Since the grind is hell as it is now, that could mean that we are still having a grind, but not a 3-months-to-magica-det-grind.

The attitude is selfish rather than constructive here.

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

@MrDerrikk @EnemyOfDaState @SuraklinPrime

You all have valid points and i agree with you. I don't want anything to handed out for free, and as you guys have stated, of course you should have to work for your stuff to feel that you have accomplished something. It's not good for anyone to have things for free since you don't learn to work for your stuff, that often makes you a lazy person.

My point is that ZOS are making a change that a lot of people have requested, no one can have missed all the threads and rants about RNG and the wall of grind to alliance skills. The Undaunted vendor is still random, and we haven't got any details of the alliance points more than "Significantly reduced the amount of Alliance Points you need to advance through the ranks in this skill line.". Since the grind is hell as it is now, that could mean that we are still having a grind, but not a 3-months-to-magica-det-grind.

The attitude is selfish rather than constructive here.

Wouldn't the simple answer be to just increase the drop rates? That way you still have to do the content but the grind is reduced?

NovaMarx · February 2016

Couldn't agree more. I am all about constructive criticism, because the game can only grow as long as people are passionate about it, and actively give feedback to the devs.

However, I find that more often than not people just whine. I'm tired of seeing posts like "NERF THIS NOW!" or "FIX THIS OR I'LL STOP PLAYING", etc..

Empty threats and one-liner posts won't do much good. Detailed information and constructive criticism/feedback is the way to go, because that is something the devs can relate to.

Islyn · February 2016

You know what, I am nearly 34. I literally have had to WORK for every little thing I ever wanted in every aspect of my life. Nothing was ever handed to me, ever.

No award for coming in 4th.

At my kids' school, I saw the Head Teacher (Principal), signing an awfully large stack of maths 'awards.' I jokingly quipped that she oughtta get a rubber stamp - and she said I know right? We have to give one to everyone so they don't feel bad then have a whole SEPARATE invitational assembly for the other actual awards and trophies.

WTF now? In the everyone gets one assembly is the one where the little plays, and songs and stuff are done - the whole class stuff. Now I need to hit 6 ASSEMBLIES????????? (I have twin 9 year olds, and an 8 year old, they all get extra awards so we get the invites and the boys are in separate classes - that's 6 (!!) mornings over 2 weeks I have to be sat in the car for 40ish mins from when they go in to school to when the thing starts, then sit in the smelly lunch hall for another 30+ minutes.

All because 'everyone deserves an award for existing.

I think it has gone this way for many people and most people just grow up feeling entitled. So they expect everything to be handed to them because everything already is.

I would love to see demographics of this game and how many people are living off their parents and fobbing off school and work to game, etc. These people are basically taking their free ride mentality into the game as well, and frankly, they're not doing themselves, the World, or the game any favours.

I would love to see how the freeloaders line up with the complainers and if they're the same people. We'll never ever know so speculation is pointless - but the entitlement in the posts sure makes it appear that way.

However, it should not be a second JOB to just gear up and be competitive but it is, because That is the Nature of Competition.

Why should anyone get to be COMPETITIVE without COMPETING?

They shouldn't.

It's a game, something you do in your spare time, so it shouldn't be a slog. An Odyssey maybe, but a slog no.

However, rewards from achievements/clearing content should not just be handed out for free either.

There has to be some kind of a middle ground, which makes gameplay actually REWARDING but not like a second job but that doesn't make people who have more drive and flair for this sort of thing feel like there's no point in bothering, either.

I don't know - but something has to change because this way is just getting worse and worse.

Alucardo · February 2016

OP, I'm sorry to say but you're not making things any better. Same goes for all the others creating these type of threads, because you're not the first. Now, instead of 2 types of complaints, we have 3. One party complaining about the AP decrease, party complaining their monster drops are going to Cyrodiil, and the other party complaining that one and two are complaining.
People will not listen to you, so don't waste your breath (err keystrokes).
I was against the AP decrease, but you know what, I'm done fighting. It's not worth it any more. If everyone jumps on that bandwagon, great, if not, then we'll just have to deal with the complaints. Don't add more fuel to the fire than there already is.

Thornen · February 2016

Give undaunted the option for pvp dailies...wow fixed the problem

Vildebill · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

OP, I'm sorry to say but you're not making things any better. Same goes for all the others creating these type of threads, because you're not the first. Now, instead of 2 types of complaints, we have 3. One party complaining about the AP decrease, party complaining their monster drops are going to Cyrodiil, and the other party complaining that one and two are complaining.
People will not listen to you, so don't waste your breath (err keystrokes).
I was against the AP decrease, but you know what, I'm done fighting. It's not worth it any more. If everyone jumps on that bandwagon, great, if not, then we'll just have to deal with the complaints. Don't add more fuel to the fire than there already is.

Yeah probably not. I'm just so tired of this attitude, the selfish rants that only takes your own opinion and thoughts in consideration. Was hoping that maybe people would see that and think about it, so we could have a better attitude on the forums. Still hoping

Alucardo · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

OP, I'm sorry to say but you're not making things any better. Same goes for all the others creating these type of threads, because you're not the first. Now, instead of 2 types of complaints, we have 3. One party complaining about the AP decrease, party complaining their monster drops are going to Cyrodiil, and the other party complaining that one and two are complaining.
People will not listen to you, so don't waste your breath (err keystrokes).
I was against the AP decrease, but you know what, I'm done fighting. It's not worth it any more. If everyone jumps on that bandwagon, great, if not, then we'll just have to deal with the complaints. Don't add more fuel to the fire than there already is.

Yeah probably not. I'm just so tired of this attitude, the selfish rants that only takes your own opinion and thoughts in consideration. Was hoping that maybe people would see that and think about it, so we could have a better attitude on the forums. Still hoping

I'm hoping once the PVPers see how easy it to obtain the monster sets and PVErs see how quickly their Alliance war skill line increases things will quieten down, but I won't hold my breath.
Trying to force them to get along is just going to promote more discussion, which will most likely lead to more animosity than there already is. We'll just have to step back and see what happens.

Turelus · February 2016

There are some good posts as well, at least regarding the Alliance War skill line costs. 90% reduction is a hell of a lot, a 50% would have been pretty big but more acceptable.

We're not annoyed that we worked hard to earn it, we're concerned at just how absurdly easy it is now, it's a single night or week of PvP to get all the skills. Whilst other skill line still require a substantial commitment to get.

Mettaricana · February 2016

Honest truth I welcome the changes at first getting my helms felt like a end game accomplishment but after I get the helm I feel like it was a lot of wasted effort for a marginal difference. Not to mention buyers or helm grinders will jave to do it all again when the up the champion point requirements for gear and make us re grind a nee molag kena or engine guardian every few updates. At this poiny I'd rather see them easier to get since were all gonna be re running or buying these items again some day.

Alucardo · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

There are some good posts as well, at least regarding the Alliance War skill line costs. 90% reduction is a hell of a lot, a 50% would have been pretty big but more acceptable.

We're not annoyed that we worked hard to earn it, we're concerned at just how absurdly easy it is now, it's a single night or week of PvP to get all the skills. Whilst other skill line still require a substantial commitment to get.

Yeah, that was a fair post that hopefully everyone, or most people can agree on.

Duiwel · February 2016

I support the AP decision, the grind was too long for the lag endurance, regardless of whatever anyone says.

This will promote more people to attempt PvP which might persuade them to add more servers, either low lvl or VR. OR at least upgrade existing infrastructure. Seeing as they are working on patches.

Can't comment on the set changes as I will only be VR16 on EU this weekend.

Lysette · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

The thing is when you do grind your ass off and get that item you want it feels like you accomplished something. So why would anyone go through the struggle of doing hard content if they can just wait a couple months and buy the item? It's not about wanting others to suffer look at it like this, imagine you spent all summer working your ass off you finally got enough money saved up and you got a car then the day after you bought it your parents got your brother a car because they didn't want him to feel bad. Sure you are happy your brother has a car of his own but still it is annoying that he is just handed something for nothing.

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Magdalina · February 2016

Turelus wrote: »

There are some good posts as well, at least regarding the Alliance War skill line costs. 90% reduction is a hell of a lot, a 50% would have been pretty big but more acceptable.

We're not annoyed that we worked hard to earn it, we're concerned at just how absurdly easy it is now, it's a single night or week of PvP to get all the skills. Whilst other skill line still require a substantial commitment to get.

Wait, is it actually 90%?._.

Vildebill · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

The thing is when you do grind your ass off and get that item you want it feels like you accomplished something. So why would anyone go through the struggle of doing hard content if they can just wait a couple months and buy the item? It's not about wanting others to suffer look at it like this, imagine you spent all summer working your ass off you finally got enough money saved up and you got a car then the day after you bought it your parents got your brother a car because they didn't want him to feel bad. Sure you are happy your brother has a car of his own but still it is annoying that he is just handed something for nothing.

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Sadly my experience is that envy is far more common than people that are happy for others.

Waseem · February 2016

the people "mad" about the new AP gain toward assault/support skill lines are those who putted hours and hours into running clicking 1 button and destroying the server by mindless zerging to reach rank 50 "ASAP"
people who do PvP to enjoy arent/as much mad as those, many dont care actually ^^
we all know it, we all knew it. if your PvP rank is 24 or 50 there is absolutely nothing to make you more skilled player.
***************************************************************
QQ about those selling kill rank 50 player achievement for 100k QQ

hydrocynus · February 2016

I agree with OP. If you buy a jacket at a store then 2 months later it goes on sale as it is no longer fashionable, do you go and complain to the store?

Is the same here guys. Get over it for both the AP gain and the monster sets.

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Envy/jealousy is a normal feeling literally everyone feels it at some point. It is the job of Zenimax to make sure players don't feel like their time is being wasted and people are being rewarded for nothing. I don't mind having super hard to get gear it gives me something to try to achieve otherwise why even bother?

Lysette · February 2016

As far as I got from this forum is that PvP players do want endgame status as soon as possible, to be able to "play their game"", all before that is grind for them and not the game they want to play. So what is wrong then with letting all those, who want that achieve it even faster than before?- If the grind is taken out of their equation it should be more fun for them, or is this the wrong idea?

flguy147ub17_ESO · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

You know what, I am nearly 34. I literally have had to WORK for every little thing I ever wanted in every aspect of my life. Nothing was ever handed to me, ever.

No award for coming in 4th.

At my kids' school, I saw the Head Teacher (Principal), signing an awfully large stack of maths 'awards.' I jokingly quipped that she oughtta get a rubber stamp - and she said I know right? We have to give one to everyone so they don't feel bad then have a whole SEPARATE invitational assembly for the other actual awards and trophies.

WTF now? In the everyone gets one assembly is the one where the little plays, and songs and stuff are done - the whole class stuff. Now I need to hit 6 ASSEMBLIES????????? (I have twin 9 year olds, and an 8 year old, they all get extra awards so we get the invites and the boys are in separate classes - that's 6 (!!) mornings over 2 weeks I have to be sat in the car for 40ish mins from when they go in to school to when the thing starts, then sit in the smelly lunch hall for another 30+ minutes.

All because 'everyone deserves an award for existing.

I think it has gone this way for many people and most people just grow up feeling entitled. So they expect everything to be handed to them because everything already is.

I would love to see demographics of this game and how many people are living off their parents and fobbing off school and work to game, etc. These people are basically taking their free ride mentality into the game as well, and frankly, they're not doing themselves, the World, or the game any favours.

I would love to see how the freeloaders line up with the complainers and if they're the same people. We'll never ever know so speculation is pointless - but the entitlement in the posts sure makes it appear that way.

However, it should not be a second JOB to just gear up and be competitive but it is, because That is the Nature of Competition.

Why should anyone get to be COMPETITIVE without COMPETING?

They shouldn't.

It's a game, something you do in your spare time, so it shouldn't be a slog. An Odyssey maybe, but a slog no.

However, rewards from achievements/clearing content should not just be handed out for free either.

There has to be some kind of a middle ground, which makes gameplay actually REWARDING but not like a second job but that doesn't make people who have more drive and flair for this sort of thing feel like there's no point in bothering, either.

I don't know - but something has to change because this way is just getting worse and worse.

Ok i am 38 myself with kids and very demanding time consuming profession. And i totally dont agree everybody gets a trophy mentality in life cause that is not how it works if you want to achieve at high levels but from one adult to another, Who the *** has the time to run 100 dungeons like some are claiming for one piece of armor. That isnt fun at all, Video Games to me are just like Movies, relaxing entertainment to wind down to at night. No gear shouldnt be handed out i agree but it shouldnt be a freaking time sink that you can never ever achieve because they have adult responsibilities. And casuals never ever will have the same stuff the hardcore elite will have cause they dont play 3+ hours 7 days a week.

Islyn · February 2016

Vildebill wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Getting really tired of all the complaints after the new patch notes. Especially of the PvP:ers complaining on the decrease of alliance points towards assault and support skill lines. Same goes for the ones complaining about cheap monster set items on the new vendor everyone wanted.

What annoys me the most is that the main argument is "I grinded my ass of for my Kena helmet, it sucked, so your gaming experience should suck too if you want it", or "it took me 3 months to get magica detonation which was hell, it shouldn't take you 2 weeks". I'm having a bad time, so you should have a bad time as well. Don't you hear how you all sound? Selfish and idiotic. It took a while for me as well to get some set items, sometimes it wasn't fun at all, mainly because of RNGsus (I'm an atheist), so why would I want anybody having as bad time as i had? Don't we want the game to be fun? To evolve? To learn from mistakes?

Life will never be fair, but isn't it better if other people can learn from the crap you did? Be humble instead of selfish!

The thing is when you do grind your ass off and get that item you want it feels like you accomplished something. So why would anyone go through the struggle of doing hard content if they can just wait a couple months and buy the item? It's not about wanting others to suffer look at it like this, imagine you spent all summer working your ass off you finally got enough money saved up and you got a car then the day after you bought it your parents got your brother a car because they didn't want him to feel bad. Sure you are happy your brother has a car of his own but still it is annoying that he is just handed something for nothing.

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Sadly my experience is that envy is far more common than people that are happy for others.

In that instance I myself could see feeling happy for my brother but a bit like wtf that I had to put so much more into it. Although, any irritation I can honestly say would be toward my parents and not my brother.

Islyn · February 2016

Waseem wrote: »

the people "mad" about the new AP gain toward assault/support skill lines are those who putted hours and hours into running clicking 1 button and destroying the server by mindless zerging to reach rank 50 "ASAP"
people who do PvP to enjoy arent/as much mad as those, many dont care actually ^^
we all know it, we all knew it. if your PvP rank is 24 or 50 there is absolutely nothing to make you more skilled player.
***************************************************************
QQ about those selling kill rank 50 player achievement for 100k QQ

That's totally unfair to say. Rank 50 has literally taken the people who have it pretty much constant pvp since launch.

I do feel some skills are way too much pvp for strictly pve folks to want to slog through but let's do keep AR rank separate because rank 50 is nothing to sneeze at.

Skills are one thing, but AR rank especially past 18 is a faking endurance trial of the highest order. Keep your shots above the belt please.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

You know what, I am nearly 34. I literally have had to WORK for every little thing I ever wanted in every aspect of my life. Nothing was ever handed to me, ever.

No award for coming in 4th.

At my kids' school, I saw the Head Teacher (Principal), signing an awfully large stack of maths 'awards.' I jokingly quipped that she oughtta get a rubber stamp - and she said I know right? We have to give one to everyone so they don't feel bad then have a whole SEPARATE invitational assembly for the other actual awards and trophies.

WTF now? In the everyone gets one assembly is the one where the little plays, and songs and stuff are done - the whole class stuff. Now I need to hit 6 ASSEMBLIES????????? (I have twin 9 year olds, and an 8 year old, they all get extra awards so we get the invites and the boys are in separate classes - that's 6 (!!) mornings over 2 weeks I have to be sat in the car for 40ish mins from when they go in to school to when the thing starts, then sit in the smelly lunch hall for another 30+ minutes.

All because 'everyone deserves an award for existing.

I think it has gone this way for many people and most people just grow up feeling entitled. So they expect everything to be handed to them because everything already is.

I would love to see demographics of this game and how many people are living off their parents and fobbing off school and work to game, etc. These people are basically taking their free ride mentality into the game as well, and frankly, they're not doing themselves, the World, or the game any favours.

I would love to see how the freeloaders line up with the complainers and if they're the same people. We'll never ever know so speculation is pointless - but the entitlement in the posts sure makes it appear that way.

However, it should not be a second JOB to just gear up and be competitive but it is, because That is the Nature of Competition.

Why should anyone get to be COMPETITIVE without COMPETING?

They shouldn't.

It's a game, something you do in your spare time, so it shouldn't be a slog. An Odyssey maybe, but a slog no.

However, rewards from achievements/clearing content should not just be handed out for free either.

There has to be some kind of a middle ground, which makes gameplay actually REWARDING but not like a second job but that doesn't make people who have more drive and flair for this sort of thing feel like there's no point in bothering, either.

I don't know - but something has to change because this way is just getting worse and worse.

this is so true. current schooling/parenting is so protective that when people get in more problem reaching adulthood because all the sudden they have to stand on their own. before this get's regarded like the internet likes to do with everything, i mean it's more common now then it was in the past. Does everyone who reaches adulthood and has to stand alone have more problems dealing with things? no. is the % higher of those who do? yes

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

There are some good posts as well, at least regarding the Alliance War skill line costs. 90% reduction is a hell of a lot, a 50% would have been pretty big but more acceptable.

We're not annoyed that we worked hard to earn it, we're concerned at just how absurdly easy it is now, it's a single night or week of PvP to get all the skills. Whilst other skill line still require a substantial commitment to get.

Wait, is it actually 90%?._.

Turelus wrote: »

There are some good posts as well, at least regarding the Alliance War skill line costs. 90% reduction is a hell of a lot, a 50% would have been pretty big but more acceptable.

We're not annoyed that we worked hard to earn it, we're concerned at just how absurdly easy it is now, it's a single night or week of PvP to get all the skills. Whilst other skill line still require a substantial commitment to get.

which skillines though? because undaunted you can level up pretty fast aswell if you get a 4 man group and do all normal and vet dungeons in a row. reason it takes so long for most people is because they just run the dungeons when it's a plegde

Lysette · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Envy/jealousy is a normal feeling literally everyone feels it at some point. It is the job of Zenimax to make sure players don't feel like their time is being wasted and people are being rewarded for nothing. I don't mind having super hard to get gear it gives me something to try to achieve otherwise why even bother?

Ok, then maybe I am not a normal person after all - I have never felt envy or jealousy in my life and I am thankful for it. I do as well not feel bored ever and have a hard time to understand how this might feel for people. But am I feeling in the wrong way or the others?- I think, they do, because I can enjoy my life in a quite peaceful way and can truely be happy for others. This is a very good feeling, you should try it and free yourself from envy and all the bad feelings coming with it. As far as jealousy goes, to be jealous in a partnership is lack of trust into the partner and this is the begining of the end. If I would ever feel jealous in my partnership I would leave my partner, because this would be end of my trust into her. It would not matter if she has done anything, my lack of trust would end it. Envy and jealousy is very bad to have, avoid it, it makes your life miserable.

Edit: it is ok if you want to do it the hard way, because you are getting fun out of it. but it is not ok to envy those, who choose the easy way out and make their life easier. It is your choice, to do it the hard way, and that is your free will to do that. But there is no reason to force your decision on others and request that they should it have the same hard as you have chosen. Let them have it their way, what does it matter to you?

I_killed_Vivec · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

No, that is envy, not a normal feeling. A normal person would just be happy for him and good. Envy is bad and can lead to a very miserable life, avoid it at all costs.

Envy/jealousy is a normal feeling literally everyone feels it at some point. It is the job of Zenimax to make sure players don't feel like their time is being wasted and people are being rewarded for nothing. I don't mind having super hard to get gear it gives me something to try to achieve otherwise why even bother?

It isn't even envy - that's wanting something that someone else has (in the analogy it is the brother who is envious).

It's a sense of justice, of fair play... "I have to do this to get that, so everyone should - it's only fair".

In any case, envy is a perfectly normal human emotion. It might be negative, it might be self-destructive, however it might make people think "I want that, so I'd better get on and do what needs to be done" and therefore be a positive factor in encouraging people to achieve what they want.

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

You know what, I am nearly 34. I literally have had to WORK for every little thing I ever wanted in every aspect of my life. Nothing was ever handed to me, ever.

No award for coming in 4th.

At my kids' school, I saw the Head Teacher (Principal), signing an awfully large stack of maths 'awards.' I jokingly quipped that she oughtta get a rubber stamp - and she said I know right? We have to give one to everyone so they don't feel bad then have a whole SEPARATE invitational assembly for the other actual awards and trophies.

WTF now? In the everyone gets one assembly is the one where the little plays, and songs and stuff are done - the whole class stuff. Now I need to hit 6 ASSEMBLIES????????? (I have twin 9 year olds, and an 8 year old, they all get extra awards so we get the invites and the boys are in separate classes - that's 6 (!!) mornings over 2 weeks I have to be sat in the car for 40ish mins from when they go in to school to when the thing starts, then sit in the smelly lunch hall for another 30+ minutes.

All because 'everyone deserves an award for existing.

I think it has gone this way for many people and most people just grow up feeling entitled. So they expect everything to be handed to them because everything already is.

I would love to see demographics of this game and how many people are living off their parents and fobbing off school and work to game, etc. These people are basically taking their free ride mentality into the game as well, and frankly, they're not doing themselves, the World, or the game any favours.

I would love to see how the freeloaders line up with the complainers and if they're the same people. We'll never ever know so speculation is pointless - but the entitlement in the posts sure makes it appear that way.

However, it should not be a second JOB to just gear up and be competitive but it is, because That is the Nature of Competition.

Why should anyone get to be COMPETITIVE without COMPETING?

They shouldn't.

It's a game, something you do in your spare time, so it shouldn't be a slog. An Odyssey maybe, but a slog no.

However, rewards from achievements/clearing content should not just be handed out for free either.

There has to be some kind of a middle ground, which makes gameplay actually REWARDING but not like a second job but that doesn't make people who have more drive and flair for this sort of thing feel like there's no point in bothering, either.

I don't know - but something has to change because this way is just getting worse and worse.

this is so true. current schooling/parenting is so protective that when people get in more problem reaching adulthood because all the sudden they have to stand on their own. before this get's regarded like the internet likes to do with everything, i mean it's more common now then it was in the past. Does everyone who reaches adulthood and has to stand alone have more problems dealing with things? no. is the % higher of those who do? yes

I agree I'm part of this current generation and it seems like everyone wants to be rich and somehow they are all mad because their HS diploma hasn't opened up all these amazing career opportunities.