Don't lower the AP required to level Assault and Support skill lines

Alucardo · February 2016

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

DisgracefulMind · February 2016

I agree with this, but not for the "this should be an achievement" argument.

Let's consider how easy it will be to get Combat Frenzy II now. Then let's consider that meteor is now unreflectable, so it will most likely be everyone's favorite ultimate again. So imagine how fast most players are going to get ultimate and imagine all the meteors that can having nothing done about them. Then let's think about Battle Res passives. Some of the highest complaints are about people rezzing, and, yet, ZoS is going to make fast rezzes even more easier to pull off for most of the population.

This is just a stupid, stupid decision. And highly unnecessary.

Dedricus · February 2016

Then give us a decent stamina heal that isn't locked behind pvp.

Erondil · February 2016

Dedricus wrote: »

Then give us a decent stamina heal that isn't locked behind pvp.

http://www.esohead.com/skills/38802-rally
Vigor is already super fast to get, it will be crazy with new ap gain. No need to reduce ap needed further more.

Xexpo · February 2016

He kinda has a point about the undaunted passives/skills.
They should also be cheaper.

Didgerion · February 2016

If you didn't notice - ZOS has nerfed zerg groups badly.

That makes AP grinding much slower for PVE players.

The quick rez is not a problem anymore....those people that die fast are a potential self launching bombs now - no one will want to rez them --- cause you rez them and they are dead in a second again and boom!

I consider these changes amazing.....good job ZOS......I hate grinding in any form....so good job....I'm a PVP-er by the way.

Emma_Overload · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

That argument would hold more weight if PvEers hadn't been dragged kicking and screaming into the Alliance War by the Tel Var grind. The problem is that even though we are participating in the War by providing PvPers with target practice and AP, we're getting barely ANYTHING in return. I'm lucky if I average 2000 AP per DAY in the IC sewers.

Your argument also falls flat when you see that hardly anyone can complete vMA on a Stamina build without liberal use of Vigor. It's just plain wrong that PvE Stamina builds are barred from the game's only endgame content for solo players because they haven't had a year in Cyrodiil to grind AP.

DisgracefulMind · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

That argument would hold more weight if PvEers hadn't been dragged kicking and screaming into the Alliance War by the Tel Var grind. The problem is that even though we are participating in the War by providing PvPers with target practice and AP, we aren't getting ANYTHING in return.

Your argument also falls flat when you see that hardly anyone can complete vMA on a Stamina build without liberal use of Vigor. It's just plain wrong that PvE Stamina builds are barred from the games only endgame content for solo players because they haven't had a year in Cyrodiil to grind AP.

This is why I think it's completely fine that vigor was placed at an earlier and easier level to get. It's sort of a balance for the fact that both PvE and PvP are needed for valuable skills and passives towards character development.

I'm personally concerned about how these changes are going to impact Cyrodiil; I could care less if a PvEr gets Proxy quicker, it's those passives I worry about. Particularly the rez one. Oh well, we'll see how it pans out.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · February 2016

Sick of grinds. I welcome the changes. It will bring more balance to PvP with people getting to the same power levels faster. Right now you have a handful of people who are sitting high and mighty on 500 CP, fully geared and alliance rank 10. Those players are going to be in for a bit of a shock when the average joe isn't at such a huge disadvantage.

Alucardo · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Your argument also falls flat when you see that hardly anyone can complete vMA on a Stamina build without liberal use of Vigor. It's just plain wrong that PvE Stamina builds are barred from the game's only endgame content for solo players because they haven't had a year in Cyrodiil to grind AP.

It's level 5 in Assault.. you're hardly "barred" from it. With the AP changes, if you join a small group for a couple of days you'll make it easy. They already moved it from the last level to 5 for complainers, and now they are making it even easier to gain access to the skill line? I'm sorry, but I'm not OK with that.
I'm waiting for the day when you create a new character and all the alliance war skills are maxed out automatically, and after 2 days you make grand warlord.

agro2014 · February 2016

Great change. Stupid grind in cyro lagfest doesn't needed to get necessary skills on alts.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Didgerion wrote: »

If you didn't notice - ZOS has nerfed zerg groups badly.

That makes AP grinding much slower for PVE players.

The quick rez is not a problem anymore....those people that die fast are a potential self launching bombs now - no one will want to rez them --- cause you rez them and they are dead in a second again and boom!

I consider these changes amazing.....good job ZOS......I hate grinding in any form....so good job....I'm a PVP-er by the way.

They were also significantly increasing the AP gains for small groups, or will that be in the next update?

Alucardo · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

If you didn't notice - ZOS has nerfed zerg groups badly.

That makes AP grinding much slower for PVE players.

The quick rez is not a problem anymore....those people that die fast are a potential self launching bombs now - no one will want to rez them --- cause you rez them and they are dead in a second again and boom!

I consider these changes amazing.....good job ZOS......I hate grinding in any form....so good job....I'm a PVP-er by the way.

They were also significantly increasing the AP gains for small groups, or will that be in the next update?

It AP increase for smaller groups is with this update (Thieves Guild)

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sick of grinds. I welcome the changes. It will bring more balance to PvP with people getting to the same power levels faster. Right now you have a handful of people who are sitting high and mighty on 500 CP, fully geared and alliance rank 10. Those players are going to be in for a bit of a shock when the average joe isn't at such a huge disadvantage.

I think you're underestimating the skill of seasoned pvp players compared to players who are relative new to pvp.

Group coordination will be more important than ever, if average Joe is standing next to a squishy guy who gets killed by someone with 5pc Vicious Death Joe will be dead too.

The Uninvited · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Because you're cheapening it. Seriously, getting to level 7 to unlock all the skills does not take THAT long, so my only assumption is you're catering to all the PVE whiners. Why should their opinions reflect what you do with Alliance war?
You're making PVP less of an achievement, and if this sticks, I expect you to lower the experience needed for the Undaunted skill line so we can obtain that faster too.

They gave you monster sets so you shouldn't have to PVE, we still have to do a litlle PVP in order to unlock the skills. Granted, XP needed for Undaunted skills could be lowered down a bit to compensate.

I agree with you most of the time, but this catering to all the PVE whiners has also been done the other way around lots of times. Some skills in PVE were rendered "useless" because of balancing needed for PVP.

So I really don't see the problem here.

DKsUnite · February 2016

hate this change.

MountainHound · February 2016

The thing is though, it is making a mockery of all the players that put in hours and hours of game play to get to rank 50. My highest character is 25 and that took alot of play time.

I would only accept this change IF it encouraged more people to PVP to unlock the skill points or something... but as pointed out in this thread it seems that once people get vigor, they wont be returning.

Iyas · February 2016

The game is old enough. Stop your: its an achievement argument.
Im totally fine with the change

Meshal · February 2016

Well, for PVE'er like me it took me 3 months to unlock horn. So yea playing pvp for me is real strugglebecause I never like to play there, and the xp required was insane. It's one of the reasons I never play stam characters because there is no way i could get caltrops. So this change is really really make me happy as PVE'er because I need a lot of skills from there which it wasn't possible for me to get in the past.

Leon119 · February 2016

What worries me is proxi being available in BWB

The Uninvited · February 2016

MountainHound wrote: »

The thing is though, it is making a mockery of all the players that put in hours and hours of game play to get to rank 50. My highest character is 25 and that took alot of play time.

I would only accept this change IF it encouraged more people to PVP to unlock the skill points or something... but as pointed out in this thread it seems that once people get vigor, they wont be returning.

But the same goes for the PVP crowd once they max Undaunted, they won't return to PVE.

There is only 1 solution to stop the back-and-forth discussion and that is to make it so that Undaunted skills can't be used in PVP and Alliance skills can't be used in PVE.

But I can only begin to imagine the raging that will bring.

Ampnode · February 2016

Sorry, @Alucardo. Gonna have to disagree with you on this one; however, agree at the same time. AP required does need to be lower for Alliance War skills, but not by the magnitude that they did it. 220K AP from ranks 9-10 is extremely low. Can only imagine what it's like for the other ranks...

That aside, I plan on making many, many characters once VRs get removed in the Dark Brotherhood DLC. My magicka builds are going to practically need Inev/Prox Det. With the current AP required for each rank, it's damn near impossible to work your way up to Inev/Prox Det with 4-5 characters. I'm all for making PvP-related leveling on par to Undaunted, but not like an endless grindfest like it is right now.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · February 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

What worries me is proxi being available in BWB

And the ground being covered in caltrops.

Draxys · February 2016

Dedricus wrote: »

Then give us a decent stamina heal that isn't locked behind pvp.

My god people, vigor takes what 300k AP? It isn't hard to get that in a couple days, even in a night sometimes if you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing but have half a brain, it might take a week or two? Hardly unfair.

Decado · February 2016

I wonder if they are back dating this change? I currently have 2 chars with prox unlocked thing once the patch goes live I'll have 3/4?

Nah I know that's unlikely tbh

I have no problem with pveers getting the skills they want and doing one back to pve land, just as I have no problem with PvPers getting undaunted and going back to pvp land, it's not fun seiging and seeing 8 people sneaking in a corner and another 8 spamming mutagen to try and level, I would rather have actual PvPers at my side while
I'm trying to take/ defend a keep

While at the same time I really don't want a PvPer in my group using heavy/ puncture/ bash on a boss in a dungeon because "it's the best Stam dps" (that's actually someThing I've heard said before) and no amount of telling them to stop
Taunting the boss will stop them,

Get these people back where they belong and back where they are comfortable

For the record I also think they should lower undaunted requirements for the guys who have pve

Brrrofski · February 2016

In play pvp quite a bit and welcome the change.

I got 8 toons. Getting them all up to caltrops or det would take a while since I play solo or in a group of 5, max. So I like it.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Meshal wrote: »

Well, for PVE'er like me it took me 3 months to unlock horn. So yea playing pvp for me is real strugglebecause I never like to play there, and the xp required was insane. It's one of the reasons I never play stam characters because there is no way i could get caltrops. So this change is really really make me happy as PVE'er because I need a lot of skills from there which it wasn't possible for me to get in the past.

3 Moths to unlock War Horn, you must be trolling?

It only takes 22400 AP to unlock it..

Just spam some heals and repair some walls/doors and you unlock it in 2 hours tops.

Alucardo · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Meshal wrote: »

Well, for PVE'er like me it took me 3 months to unlock horn. So yea playing pvp for me is real strugglebecause I never like to play there, and the xp required was insane. It's one of the reasons I never play stam characters because there is no way i could get caltrops. So this change is really really make me happy as PVE'er because I need a lot of skills from there which it wasn't possible for me to get in the past.

3 Moths to unlock War Horn, you must be trolling?

It only takes 22400 AP to unlock it..

Just spam some heals and repair some walls/doors and you unlock it in 2 hours tops.

People like to embellish to get their point across. "TOOK ME LIKE FOREVER TO GET RAPID MANEUVERS PVP IS SO LAME"

pronkg · February 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Then give us a decent stamina heal that isn't locked behind pvp.

My god people, vigor takes what 300k AP? It isn't hard to get that in a couple days, even in a night sometimes if you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing but have half a brain, it might take a week or two? Hardly unfair.

Most people don't know what they are doing though.

i gain like 20 or 30 k or smthing in 2 or 3 hours with a group if it goes well. I think 20 to 30 hours investment just to gain a skill is allot.

Also it would be nice to gain skills for being skillful not for spamming aoe and healing skills all day long.

MidnightBlue · February 2016

I'm a pvper and if they do this, why can't they do it for the Undaunted skill line too? That sucks... Only positive I see in this is that when I level a new character I'll get my pvp skill line a lot faster on a new character since I hate farming in general. But I pvp more than I pve so it doesn't matter much anyway. I'm glad I got all the pvp skills unlocked before they're going to make it even easier. I liked working for it to be honest.

Wizzo91 · February 2016

/signed I agree with OP.