M_TeK_9 wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

So I have to spend 15k respeccing, changing gear and mundas stone every time I want to run the solo content?

Pass.

TotterTates wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

2. Damage mitigation: Current Cap is 50% (not to be confused with Armor Cap)

I agree, 50% is SO low, 70% or 75% is much more reasonable. I think there should be a flat amount of damage mitigation added to one of the HA passives (Juggernaut maybe?), something like 1% reduced damage taken per piece of heavy armor equipped.

4. A way for tanks to obtain Maelstrom Master weapons

Maelstrom is such a ridiculously stupid addition to this game. This is an MMO! Seriously, why the hell would they create content achievable by only one archetype and then balance it for ranged shield-stackers only. ***.

2. The 50% cap to which you are referring is the armor cap. With blocking, passives, and skills, it is possible to achieve upward of 90% mitigation. Not that Heavy Armor is required... just wanted to point that out.

4. This will never happen. I asked during the ESO live before Orsinium release and was told I would have to respec to complete it. 1.5 million gold (and counting) later, I'm the #1 DK on NA and still pissed...

Though I do find it interesting that #1 and #2 NA DKs are both tanks by trade

DHale wrote: »

Ppl asked for dragon knights to be nerfed... Done. Ppl asked for nerfs to roll dodge they got them. Ppl asked for nerfs to bolt escape they got them. Ppl asked for nerfs to perma blockers you got them. You do realize you get the things you asked .... Ruining the game... Working as intended.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Tanks need (Heavy Armour + 1h&s) - Slow
1. Root to hold pulled players
2. a long range single target Pull
3. short range AoE Pull
4. increased armour
5. Amrour buff AoE
6. weapon/heal debuffs
This should be Health based.

Healers need (Medium Armour + Resto)
1. Snare to keep off pushed players
2. a long range single target push
3. a short range AoE push
4. increased self heals
5. Heal Buff Aoe
6. Weapon/Armour Debuffs.
This should be based on Unused attribute Points to give a 4th Healing Resource.

DPS need (Light Armour + Destro/Weapon) - Mobile
1. Move speed to get to/from players
2. a long range single target Gaps closer
3. a short range evasion AoE (local miss chance)
4. increased damage
5. weapon buff AoE
6. armour/heal debuffs
This should be Stamina/Magicka based.
Magicka versions of Sneak/move/dodge/block should exist and switch to use least depleted resource

You should not have access to trees you aren't specced into or there effectiveness should be considerably reduced.
This should fix stuff IMHO.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

@LegendaryNinja you have summed up a lot of my thoughts on the issue. You didn't include my problem with the way the Health Resource is treated by the current game design. The health multiplier was lowered and it was already by nature a weaker stat, since only a handful of skills in the game scale off of Health (Bone Shield, Obsidian Shield & Sun Shield). This makes an already pretty underwhelming stat even less interesting. Mitigation in this game is based upon your damage resources, and getting your health up high enough to not get one shot.

My question is why should we even have a health stat if they are going to design the game in this way. I've offered a number of solutions to this problem which I might link here.
I would personally like to see the Heavy Armor build have stronger light and heavy attacks, which would scale off of Health. Heavy Armor does not control the other resources Magic/Stamina as well as Light/Medium armor, nor does it get those damage bonuses, despite mitigating very little more than these two. Another possibility would be to lower the cc durations, break free costs, blocking costs, etc of higher Health players. The point in both of these changes would be to give Health a meaningful benefit outside of avoiding instant death. The other option someone laid out was to enhance ultimate generation for people with high health. A high health character would not have as much ultimate damage (lower damage resources) but as a tank they could fire off that ultimate more often. The one problem I foresee with this, is that it would make Dragon Knight too powerful, and they would ultimately have to completely reconsider Battle Roar if they did this. I'm just putting the idea on the table, because it is not a bad one and I personally feel there a lot of reasonable solutions to the problem.

Ultimately I think you make a lot of great points, many of which I've said before, as have others. I hope what you are talking about is being looked at already, I really do. I've personally given up on tanking and thereby lost interest in dungeons in general because of the changes they have made. Most of my enjoyable tanking was done as a Templar, and I really find it annoying to tank as a Templar nowadays.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

Tanking is still very easy, even with bad armor it's still no problem to permablock, especially as a DK. For Maelstrom ok I see it's hard in tank gear to finish it, but I think that's good, it's solo and everybody needs to change their build abit.

Meaning go from a tank setup to DPS. Not that is not possible, but my underlying topic is that you should not have to forced into playing the game a specific way. Solo content should always be achievable in all three roles, and this is from multiple mmos. They always make their solo content so that you can either 1. Do high damage and kill things quickly(DPS), 2. Do low damage and self heal(Healer) 3.Do low damage and take considerably low damage(Tank).

I think the problem with your logic is that this "solo" content happens to be an endgame raid. The game doesnt force you to complete it though...you can get other things to substitute for that gear and still be an amazing tank. You want to get the items from this raid, then you have to meet the minimum requirements...look at it as if it was a gear check...

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Tanks need (Heavy Armour + 1h&s) - Slow
1. Root to hold pulled players
2. a long range single target Pull
3. short range AoE Pull
4. increased armour
5. Amrour buff AoE
6. weapon/heal debuffs
This should be Health based.

Healers need (Medium Armour + Resto)
1. Snare to keep off pushed players
2. a long range single target push
3. a short range AoE push
4. increased self heals
5. Heal Buff Aoe
6. Weapon/Armour Debuffs.
This should be based on Unused attribute Points to give a 4th Healing Resource.

DPS need (Light Armour + Destro/Weapon) - Mobile
1. Move speed to get to/from players
2. a long range single target Gaps closer
3. a short range evasion AoE (local miss chance)
4. increased damage
5. weapon buff AoE
6. armour/heal debuffs
This should be Stamina/Magicka based.
Magicka versions of Sneak/move/dodge/block should exist and switch to use least depleted resource

You should not have access to trees you aren't specced into or there effectiveness should be considerably reduced.
This should fix stuff IMHO.

LegendaryNinja wrote: »

Hi Fellow ESO players. Legendary Ninja here today to talk about Different Issues and concerns when it comes to Tanking, Damage mitigation, Solo Play, PVP, and Heavy Armor. Of course it would be interesting to see some acknowledgement by the ESO devs.

Goal:

My goal in this post is to open the eyes of the readers to different game mechanics which while not bad are not the optimal solution in order to understand the complete state of a life as a tank in ESO today.

Tanking:

I started playing ESO as a DPS on PC during Beta, I remember my first character being a Breton DragonKnight. Still remember the days where I knew nothing about ESO and game mechanics. I sticked to being a DPS during my PC game experience. When the game got released on the PS4 I stopped playing on PC and forgot to do my character transfer (I had 95 champion points at the time). Knowing the mechanics of the game on consoles made me more effective in leveling my character. Eventually I was introduced to the wonders of tanking, it was a wonderful discovery, i was so amazed of the satisfaction it brought. I finally found my place in ESO, I knew from there on out it was what I would be focusing on.

In my quest to try to prove everyone wrong, I was able to build a dark elf magic vampire templar tank and a redguard stamina dk tank. Even with the nerf to blocking It was still possible to tank in ESO.

Current Issues in Tanking:

1. Block Cost and No stamina Regen for Blocking, the reason why it was nerfed and possible solutions:

Cause: This nerf was implemented because it was possible for characters with very high stamina regen to block forever and not die in PVP(or be incredibly hard to kill). Generally this would be done even with characters that had medium armor. So it was possible to have a lot of damage output and high damage mitigation at the same time.
Issue: Even if still possible to block effectively while tanking via block cost reduction strategies, the sacrifices that that takes on an already barebones heavy armor passives and tanking overall makes tanks weaker and also discourages players from becoming tanks, hence the super long group finder queues for DPS characters.
Solution: My proposal is the following; to increase the cost of blocking first Medium armor, then a little bit less for Light Armor, this would be calculated per piece of armor. Additionally to revert the change in stam regen while blocking.
Heavy: Same cost
Medium: around 8 percent additional block cost per piece of Medium armor equipped
Light: around 4 percent additional block cost per piece of Light Armor equipped.
This way there is a balance of stam regen with increased cost with Light and Medium armor vs Reduced cost and stam regen with Heavy armor.

2. Damage mitigation: Current Cap is 50% (not to be confused with Armor Cap)

Damage mitigation is currently set at 50% of the raw damage, this includes ultimates, passives, and armor; everything together. This is a problem.
While we don't want to have characters that are invulnerable to damage because of the current meta in ESO it's impossible to have meaningful tanks in PVP and Maelstrom for example. Damage mitigation Cap while wearing 5 pieces of Heavy armor ONLY should be raised to 70%.

Reasoning:
In PVP everyone is running crit builds specially due to the nerf to damage, this allows those builds to output about as much non crit damage as before the nerf currently. Also Maelstrom for example is a solo trial designed specifically for DPS builds (Do the devs think everyone is a dps?) Even at 50% damage mitigation a crit Wrecking Blow even while blocking can do around 8-9k damage and while almost at armor cap ((33000 at VR 14, maybe 35000 at VR 16)(The VR 16 Armor Cap has not been confirmed yet)). Heavy Armor is supposed to be that, Tanky, tougher to kill; at the cost of reduced damage output because you are focusing on defenses.
Solution: Remove the current Armor Value and replace them with a raw damage reduction percentages, Spell Damage reduction and Physical Damage reduction. Replace Spell and Armor Resistance Penetration with raw values as well. This would help streamline damage reduction overall and then it will become easier to implement. It's simpler that it sounds. Then Buff Heavy Armor to provide a higher percentage of Damage mitigation. While also improving most of the Heavy armor passives.

3. Taunts and collision detection in PVP

Currently you cannot tount a player in PVP, if this is allowed it would make tactical fights, where Tanks in PVP would be needed, also it would help control the Zerging in PVP, therefore reduced lag. With collision detection in Cyrodiil ONLY it would make defending keeps more engaging and structured, this would also help diversify Cyrodiil in branching players into proper DPS, healers, and Tanks. The way is supposed to be.

Taunt Implementation:
A player that would be taunted only for a few seconds(maybe half of the PvE duration) would see the player that taunted them automatically lock on, so that the player would know. The player being taunted would also appropriately be granted CC immunity, that way a tank would not be able to taunt and CC the same time. A tank would need to choose appropriately. Also in PVP when taunting an enemy player then can't taunt another player in 4 seconds. This means even the tank can be taunted, so it would be really interesting to see in PVP. This way not everyone in Cyrodiil is a DPS or Healer.

Collision Detection in Cyrodiil ONLY:
Cyrodiil would be better this way making players have to go through tanky characters first in order to take a keep. Similar how to other games implement this.

4. A way for tanks to obtain Maelstrom Master weapons
Pretty much other people have touched on this subject, that Maelstrom Arena is a DPS race. This should be true for DPS characters, since they should have less damage mitigation. ESO should be a game in which solo content should be played as a healer, tank, or dps; however the player desires without being forced into selecting a certain kind of playstyle, this is an insult to players who love to and dedicate their entire builds to play as Tanks or Healers. Right now Maelstrom Arena is being completed by self healing high end DPS characters BECAUSE IS THE ONLY WAY.

This is a bad thing, because the mobs in this "SOLO" instance are more powerful that VETERAN DUNGEON BOSSES. It's impossible to mitigate that damage so a Tank stands absolutely no chance of completing it. That's all that needs to be said.

And this is my never ending Tank Nightmare. Would ESO incentivize players to Tank?, can Tanks be useful in PVP?, I'm I one of the few remaining Tanks in ESO? Please share your thoughts and comments below. There will be another post with a Poll shortly. Until next time.

Garwulf wrote: »

Pointless suggesting or complaining . What ever is done will soon be nerfed and nerfed again as the Seals in our community cry NERF, NERF, NERF.

What really surprises me about this game and I am not easily surprised, is how useless is Heavy Armour.
When you consider a traditional European Knight in full armour was carrying less weight than a modern Foot Soldier you get some idea of why before the advent of firearms they were really 'battle tanks' able to take punishment and deal it out in 'droves'. In ESO a heavy armoured character is a real house cat .... Limited damage and not really a punishment taker. Heavy Armour should really be called Fools Armour as you are essentially a fool to put it on your character.

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Tanks need (Heavy Armour + 1h&s) - Slow
1. Root to hold pulled players
2. a long range single target Pull
3. short range AoE Pull
4. increased armour
5. Amrour buff AoE
6. weapon/heal debuffs
This should be Health based.

Healers need (Medium Armour + Resto)
1. Snare to keep off pushed players
2. a long range single target push
3. a short range AoE push
4. increased self heals
5. Heal Buff Aoe
6. Weapon/Armour Debuffs.
This should be based on Unused attribute Points to give a 4th Healing Resource.

DPS need (Light Armour + Destro/Weapon) - Mobile
1. Move speed to get to/from players
2. a long range single target Gaps closer
3. a short range evasion AoE (local miss chance)
4. increased damage
5. weapon buff AoE
6. armour/heal debuffs
This should be Stamina/Magicka based.
Magicka versions of Sneak/move/dodge/block should exist and switch to use least depleted resource

You should not have access to trees you aren't specced into or there effectiveness should be considerably reduced.
This should fix stuff IMHO.

I have absolutely no idea what all this means.