Trial Bow DPS

Fenris · May 2015

I've got a VR13 Stam bow NB that will be in trials soon. I want to make a strong DPS here, but am unsure of the rotations to use. I have my PVP set down.

Questions, I know Focused aim is a physical attack snipe. Lethal shot, is it a physical initial hit with a poison dot afterwards or is the entire shot considered poison? I want to know if the Mighty champ points will help on lethal shot damage.

Also, poison injection, is the initial shot physical or poison?

Does anyone have a good rotation for NB bow builds that pulls 10k+ single target dps?

Torquebow · May 2015

Both Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow morphs change the base attack from Physical to Poison, which means they scale with Thaumaturge and I believe also the spell penetration nodes in the champion system.

As far as whats optimal for your specific build I can't really say. You could always reach out to the folks over at Tamriel Foundry for build advice, that would be a much better resource for good info I believe. Jekyll in particular has some great bow / DW NB builds.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nb-dual-wieldbow-pve-dps-build-1-6-6/

Cheers hope this helps!

GaldorP · May 2015

I've made a quick series of tests to double-check a few things

Test results:

1) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 75 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1156 / *1734*
Fully charged heavy attack: 5092 / *7639*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 638 / *958*
Bombard: 2882 / *4323*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 6549 / *9824*
Caltrops: 507 / *760*

2) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 37 Bow Expert, 38 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1079 / *1619*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4756 / *7134*
Venom Arrow: 2455 / *3682*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2753 / *4129*
Lethal Arrow: 6254 / *9381*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

3) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 960 / *1440*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4228 / *6341*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

green=poison attacks; were tested in a different test series; only damage of initial hit was tested

-> Bow Light and Heavy Attacks are affected by "Mighty" and by "Bow Expert".
-> Venom Arrow, Acid Spray (Arrow Spray morph), and Lethal Arrow (Snipe morph) are affected by "Thaumaturge" but not by "Mighty".
-> Bombard (Arrow Spray Morph), and Focused Aim (Snipe morph), Volley, Arrow Barrage (Volley Morph), and Caltrops are affected by "Mighty" but not by "Thaumaturge".

So everything seems to be working as expected there.

On an unrelated note: ZOS, please make the bow a viable dps weapon for trials!

If someone can post any build with good dps in trials that uses the bow as main dps weapon I'd really appreciate your input.
To me, it seems like two-handed, dual-wield, and destruction staff are the only viable choices for good dps in trials right now.

Tankqull · May 2015

GaldorP wrote: »

I've made a quick series of tests to double-check a few things

Test results:
1) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 75 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1156 / *1734*
Fully charged heavy attack: 5092 / *7639*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 638 / *958*
Bombard: 2882 / *4323*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 6549 / *9824*
Caltrops: 507 / *760*

2) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 37 Bow Expert, 38 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1079 / *1619*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4756 / *7134*
Venom Arrow: 2455 / *3682*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2753 / *4129*
Lethal Arrow: 6254 / *9381*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

3) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 960 / *1440*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4228 / *6341*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

green=poison attacks; were tested in a different test series; only damage of initial hit was tested

-> Bow Light and Heavy Attacks are affected by "Mighty" and by "Bow Expert".
-> Venom Arrow, Acid Spray (Arrow Spray morph), and Lethal Arrow (Snipe morph) are affected by "Thaumaturge" but not by "Mighty".
-> Bombard (Arrow Spray Morph), and Focused Aim (Snipe morph), Volley, Arrow Barrage (Volley Morph), and Caltrops are affected by "Mighty" but not by "Thaumaturge".

So everything seems to be working as expected there.

On an unrelated note: ZOS, please make the bow a viable dps weapon for trials!

If someone can post any build with good dps in trials that uses the bow as main dps weapon I'd really appreciate your input.
To me, it seems like two-handed, dual-wield, and destruction staff are the only viable choices for good dps in trials right now.

they could be aswell affected by bow expert

and every (non magika dk) build has to suffer from 3-4 cp depending dmgbuffs.

SHADOW2KK · May 2015

GaldorP wrote: »

I've made a quick series of tests to double-check a few things

Test results:
1) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 75 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1156 / *1734*
Fully charged heavy attack: 5092 / *7639*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 638 / *958*
Bombard: 2882 / *4323*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 6549 / *9824*
Caltrops: 507 / *760*

2) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 37 Bow Expert, 38 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 1079 / *1619*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4756 / *7134*
Venom Arrow: 2455 / *3682*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2753 / *4129*
Lethal Arrow: 6254 / *9381*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

3) Damage on VR 11 Welwa with 0 Mighty, 0 Bow Expert, 0 Thaumaturge at minimal range

Light Attack with bow: 960 / *1440*
Fully charged heavy attack: 4228 / *6341*
Venom Arrow: 2178 / *3267*
Volley and Arrow Barrage: 530 / *795*
Bombard: 2392 / *3588*
Acid Spray: 2392 / *3588*
Lethal Arrow: 5437 / *8156*
Focused Aim: 5437 / *8156*
Caltrops: 421 / *632*

green=poison attacks; were tested in a different test series; only damage of initial hit was tested

-> Bow Light and Heavy Attacks are affected by "Mighty" and by "Bow Expert".
-> Venom Arrow, Acid Spray (Arrow Spray morph), and Lethal Arrow (Snipe morph) are affected by "Thaumaturge" but not by "Mighty".
-> Bombard (Arrow Spray Morph), and Focused Aim (Snipe morph), Volley, Arrow Barrage (Volley Morph), and Caltrops are affected by "Mighty" but not by "Thaumaturge".

So everything seems to be working as expected there.

On an unrelated note: ZOS, please make the bow a viable dps weapon for trials!

If someone can post any build with good dps in trials that uses the bow as main dps weapon I'd really appreciate your input.
To me, it seems like two-handed, dual-wield, and destruction staff are the only viable choices for good dps in trials right now.

Very helpful thank you sir:}

Cu'chulainn · January 2016

GaldorP wrote: »

I've made a quick series of tests to double-check a few things
.

Wow very helpful, though I would have loved to have seen 40 in thaum. Lethal arrow damage // 40 in mighty and focused aim damage

Because I switched to physical a few months ago and I feel like my lethal arrow with only about 20pts in thaum hit harder that focused aim with like 50pts in mighty

ryanborror · January 2016

Without a maelstrom bow or daggers, the bow isn't that great for high end dps. Although poison injection is a good dot under 50% health. If killers blade scales scales with thaumaturge it might be worth putting a few points into for higher execute damage but I think at lower cp, mighty is most important.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

As it currently stands, bow is just not that great for sustained single target DPS. For a NB stam build, I would check out Gilliam's new post on these forums or Jeckll's post on tamrielfoundry. Both builds use a bow, but it is more for DoTs and buffs. Both builds require you to be at melee range. This might change if/when they buff old sets like Hawkeye to v16, but I am not holding my breath.

Cu'chulainn · January 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

As it currently stands, bow is just not that great for sustained single target DPS. For a NB stam build, I would check out Gilliam's new post on these forums or Jeckll's post on tamrielfoundry. Both builds use a bow, but it is more for DoTs and buffs. Both builds require you to be at melee range. This might change if/when they buff old sets like Hawkeye to v16, but I am not holding my breath.

Yeah that's mainly what I use bow for anyway, -50% dot, but I've heard that too about making old sets v16 but where does it say that because they're supposed to be getting rid of the whole VR thing completely right, idk when though..

Lexxypwns · January 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

As it currently stands, bow is just not that great for sustained single target DPS. For a NB stam build, I would check out Gilliam's new post on these forums or Jeckll's post on tamrielfoundry. Both builds use a bow, but it is more for DoTs and buffs. Both builds require you to be at melee range. This might change if/when they buff old sets like Hawkeye to v16, but I am not holding my breath.

Hawkeye + Malestrom bow (volley) after dat malestrom dagger flurry = too stronk?

wayfarerx · January 2016

Cu'chulainn wrote: »

... because they're supposed to be getting rid of the whole VR thing completely right, idk when though..

Veteran ranks are scheduled to be removed in the Dark Brotherhood update in Q2, no word yet on if old sets will get scaled up at all though.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Cu'chulainn wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

As it currently stands, bow is just not that great for sustained single target DPS. For a NB stam build, I would check out Gilliam's new post on these forums or Jeckll's post on tamrielfoundry. Both builds use a bow, but it is more for DoTs and buffs. Both builds require you to be at melee range. This might change if/when they buff old sets like Hawkeye to v16, but I am not holding my breath.

Yeah that's mainly what I use bow for anyway, -50% dot, but I've heard that too about making old sets v16 but where does it say that because they're supposed to be getting rid of the whole VR thing completely right, idk when though..

There have been hints of some old sets scaling up. Who knows if/when/what will be scaled. The old Bow Meta was 5 morag tong, 5 hawk eye, master bow. This used to be pretty darn competitive, and was a fairly straightforward range build. When they remove vet ranks, it sounds like they are going to have CP requirements to use gear, and there will still be base stats. So if you have a v14 and v16 weapon, after ranks are removed, the old V16 weapon will likely have higher base states, making it better. It will likely have a higher CP requirement as well to equip. This is obviously speculation, but it still means that these sets need to be scaled at some point to be viable.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

As it currently stands, bow is just not that great for sustained single target DPS. For a NB stam build, I would check out Gilliam's new post on these forums or Jeckll's post on tamrielfoundry. Both builds use a bow, but it is more for DoTs and buffs. Both builds require you to be at melee range. This might change if/when they buff old sets like Hawkeye to v16, but I am not holding my breath.

Hawkeye + Malestrom bow (volley) after dat malestrom dagger flurry = too stronk?

Hard to say what the new rotations will look like. Volley with a Maelstrom Bow hits HARD!!! If it would get another buff from flurry and another from HawkEye, that could be insane (and awesome). It could make for a fun build too. You would be mostly at range, but every 14 seconds or so, you would need to get close for some melee action.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2016

Torquebow wrote: »

Both Poison Injection and Lethal Arrow morphs change the base attack from Physical to Poison, which means they scale with Thaumaturge and I believe also the spell penetration nodes in the champion system.

As far as whats optimal for your specific build I can't really say. You could always reach out to the folks over at Tamriel Foundry for build advice, that would be a much better resource for good info I believe. Jekyll in particular has some great bow / DW NB builds.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/nb-dual-wieldbow-pve-dps-build-1-6-6/

Cheers hope this helps!

Poison getting buffed by Thaumaturge is correct. But I believe spell penetration versus armor penetration is purely a resource used issue. If skill uses magicka, it is mitigated by spell resist and buffed by spell penetration. If skill uses stamina, it is mitigated by armor and buffed by armor penetration. With all bow skills using stamina, they should need armor penetration.