Can I build a viable hybrid dps DK for vet to end game?

Rebel230 · January 2016

Hi,

I have a v4 magicka dps dk. I have played as a otro mage for a long time. I would really like to morph him into a more balanced class skills/weapon skills character for the remainder of levelling and end game pve.

Every guide I find from Tamriel foundry to deltiasgaming it's always all stam or all magicka. I'm not a great player by any means but I would really like to play my character the way I like but I still need to carry my weight for end game.

Is there no viable build out there or way to build a more balanced set up for 2Hand and bow? If I like to use a balance of dk class fires skill with bow and 2 hand weapon skills.

I am nord, daggerfall, vampire rank 10 play on us pc.

I guess I would need to balance my stamina and magicka pools and stamina and magicka Regan through gear but im,not sure which? 5 medium 2 light?

I would really appreciate some advice on how to do this.

Thanks everyone.

DannyLV702 · January 2016

Hybrid plus being a vampire will be reaaaaaally bad if you're planning on running dungeons. Never tried it myself, so maybe someone who has, will answer for you in more detail.

paulsimonps · January 2016

Quick recap why in the current system Hybrids are not viable. Its cause the total damage you do is measured by not only spell or weapon damage but also your max magicka or stamina. So if you put 50% of all your stuff into Stamina based stuff and 50% into magicka based stuff your damage with both types will be significantly lower than anyone using 100% into only one of those. Also your resource management will be hard to handle since you have to spread out not only your regen but your CP into cost reduction and regen. The only ROLE that can go Hybrid are the tanks and that's mainly cause they need both and they are not designed to do a lot of damage. The newer content that we have seen from IC and Wrothgar are showing us that they are getting better at making harder content, and at the start really hard content that there are super many discussions about whether its too hard or not, anyway my point is you need to be able to pull quite a lot of dps at new end game so hybrids don't cut it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

^^^ What @paulsimonps said. You can certainly go hybrid until you hit endgame (v16) to level skills and mess around, but other than a tank, its just not very viable. Your DPS is not going to be very good no matter what buttons you push if you split resources between Magic and Stamina because of the way damage scales in this game. People come to me a fair amount regarding how to increase their DPS. The first thing I ask is what their stat pools like like. Almost all of them are hybrid builds. Once they change, 90% of the problem is solved.

Bashev · January 2016

Hybrid DPS - No

Rebel230 · January 2016

OK, I understand what your saying and thank you for helping me to understand.

I guess my question would be is there a way then, to use 2hander and bow stamina build with a few more of my DK class skills (as most builds use mostly weapon skills with only 2-3 dk skills or a 2h/ bow magicka build with a few weapon skills? If I have to go full stam or magicka, can I still achieve what I am trying to do?

Saint314Louis1985 · January 2016

you wouldnt be able to be a hybrid dps but you could probably make a good hybrid tank DK.

something to think about

Cuyler · January 2016

Rebel230 wrote: »

OK, I understand what your saying and thank you for helping me to understand.

I guess my question would be is there a way then, to use 2hander and bow stamina build with a few more of my DK class skills (as most builds use mostly weapon skills with only 2-3 dk skills or a 2h/ bow magicka build with a few weapon skills? If I have to go full stam or magicka, can I still achieve what I am trying to do?

What you can do is be stamina. Do DW or 2h on bar 1 and bow on bar 2. Then you can switch to tanking just by changing your gear.

a 2h/bow magic build is not a thing. both 2h and bow scale off of stamina. If you were magic they would hit like a wet noodle.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Rebel230 wrote: »

OK, I understand what your saying and thank you for helping me to understand.

I guess my question would be is there a way then, to use 2hander and bow stamina build with a few more of my DK class skills (as most builds use mostly weapon skills with only 2-3 dk skills or a 2h/ bow magicka build with a few weapon skills? If I have to go full stam or magicka, can I still achieve what I am trying to do?

You can absolutely use certain class skills. Any skill that has a stamina morph is a good idea. Also, any long duration buffs that use magic arent bad. You just want to make sure your damage skills are scaling off stamina and weapon damage. Your main spam is likley going to be a weapon skill. A common complaint about stam DKs is that they dont have a stam morph of whip so they need to rely on wreckingblow for their main DPS. If going for 2H/Bow, you need to go full stam.

Saint314Louis1985 · January 2016

Rebel230 wrote: »

OK, I understand what your saying and thank you for helping me to understand.

I guess my question would be is there a way then, to use 2hander and bow stamina build with a few more of my DK class skills (as most builds use mostly weapon skills with only 2-3 dk skills or a 2h/ bow magicka build with a few weapon skills? If I have to go full stam or magicka, can I still achieve what I am trying to do?

the following skills are definitely usable on a stamina DK dps:

*volatile armor
dragon wings
*take flight
searing strike
*green dragon blood
molten weapons
*igneous shield
*fossilize

alot of them are more useful in PVP rather than dps for dungeon.

i use 5 of them in my PVP setup for my stam DK with 2H/Sword n Shield (the ones marked with a star). I swap out fossilize for caltrops if im running a dungeon.

you could use with 2H/bow just as easy.

I dont know much about how to build a magicka DK so cant help you there.

Rebel230 · January 2016

I have been using this right now, I know its not ideal but I have been also levelling up some 2h/ bow skills I had not done. before.

2h - single target
Executioner
Engulfing Flames
Burning embers
crit rush
sea of flames

Bow - aoe, heal, buff
eruption
scorched earth
draw essence
expert hunter (was using green dragon blood, then poison arrow to level that, have to work on bombard also)
sea of flames

What changes should I make on morphs and skills going forward. I have enough to do a full respect now. Again, I would like to use a balance of DK skills and weapon skills if possible. Oh, for stam dk dps is my goal medium armor?

Cuyler · January 2016

Rebel230 wrote: »

I have been using this right now, I know its not ideal but I have been also levelling up some 2h/ bow skills I had not done. before.

2h - single target
Executioner
Engulfing Flames
Burning embers
crit rush
sea of flames

Bow - aoe, heal, buff
eruption
scorched earth
draw essence
expert hunter (was using green dragon blood, then poison arrow to level that, have to work on bombard also)
sea of flames

What changes should I make on morphs and skills going forward. I have enough to do a full respect now. Again, I would like to use a balance of DK skills and weapon skills if possible. Oh, for stam dk dps is my goal medium armor?

Usually yes, medium armor. Hundings, Night Mother's, Kena for sets. maelstrom daggers

Saint314Louis1985 · January 2016

for your 2H you absolutely need wrecking blow, rally and executioner. Id recommend crit rush for PVP and brawler for PVE.

For your bow Id recommend snipe and/or bombard. If you dont use bombard, use caltrops for your aoe.

My skill bars look like this (for PVE when i run bow):

Bar 1 - 2H

Executioner
Brawler
wrecking blow
rally
igneous shield
ult - dawnbreaker

Bar 2 - Bow

Snipe
Volatile armor
caltrops
green dragon blood
vigor
ult - take flight

For you based on the skills youre using now, id recommend trying (im assuming your switching to stam dps?):

bar 1 - 2H
executioner (provides good passive and execute)
brawler (prvides dmg shield and DOT on enemies. rocks in a large group of adds)
wrecking blow (main dps move)
rally (20% increase on dmg and provides good healing)
igneous shield (boosts all healing 30% and returns stamina every time you use it)
ult - dawnbreaker (adds % weap dmg just for slotting plus a good, cheap ult)

bar 2 - bow
snipe (main bow dps. if you want to fit another dk skill in put it here tho)
bombard (aoe dmg)
unstable flame (good DOT and scales off stam)
green dragon blood (boosts healing and solid burst heal in pve)
burning breath (enemy debuff and scales off stam)
ult - take flight or ferocious leap (probably the best stam ult in the game)

Medium armor hundings plus night mothers is all the rage atm but there are other options.

On my dk im working towards:

4pc shield breaker (chest, gloves, boots, belt)
1 pc molag kena shoulders
1pc bloodspawn helm
2 pc affliction (legs and ammy)
3 pc agility (2x rings and 2H/bow/SnB)

Hope you find something useful.

Rebel230 · January 2016

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

for your 2H you absolutely need wrecking blow, rally and executioner. Id recommend crit rush for PVP and brawler for PVE.

For your bow Id recommend snipe and/or bombard. If you dont use bombard, use caltrops for your aoe.

My skill bars look like this (for PVE when i run bow):

Bar 1 - 2H

Executioner
Brawler
wrecking blow
rally
igneous shield
ult - dawnbreaker

Bar 2 - Bow

Snipe
Volatile armor
caltrops
green dragon blood
vigor
ult - take flight

For you based on the skills youre using now, id recommend trying (im assuming your switching to stam dps?):

bar 1 - 2H
executioner (provides good passive and execute)
brawler (prvides dmg shield and DOT on enemies. rocks in a large group of adds)
wrecking blow (main dps move)
rally (20% increase on dmg and provides good healing)
igneous shield (boosts all healing 30% and returns stamina every time you use it)
ult - dawnbreaker (adds % weap dmg just for slotting plus a good, cheap ult)

bar 2 - bow
snipe (main bow dps. if you want to fit another dk skill in put it here tho)
bombard (aoe dmg)
unstable flame (good DOT and scales off stam)
green dragon blood (boosts healing and solid burst heal in pve)
burning breath (enemy debuff and scales off stam)
ult - take flight or ferocious leap (probably the best stam ult in the game)

Medium armor hundings plus night mothers is all the rage atm but there are other options.

On my dk im working towards:

4pc shield breaker (chest, gloves, boots, belt)
1 pc molag kena shoulders
1pc bloodspawn helm
2 pc affliction (legs and ammy)
3 pc agility (2x rings and 2H/bow/SnB)

Hope you find something useful.

Thank you for such a solid reply. Here is my issue. The stam builds use almost no DK skills. I don't understand. I want to be a DK. Almost every skill is a 2h/ bow/ fg skill.

Is there no way to build a more balanced use of skills for this? I am in the process of doing a full respec. I have taken unstable flame (stam version), burning breath (stam version). Is unstable flame a poor choice? I am trying to add in more dk skills.

Is there a reason to use bombard over scorched earth?

I have executioner and crit rush so far. I have not levelled up the other 2h skills as of yet.
I kind of set my 2h bar up as a single target, and my bow as my aoe.

Saint314Louis1985 · January 2016

2H is mainly single target and your bow should be aoe (youre on the right track there).

You absolutely need wrecking blow & rally if youre going to run a 2H (two of the best skills in the game). They are the go to skills for 2H users. executioner is only useful when your enemy gets low health (it provides bonus damage to low health targets).

Stam DKs are pigeon holed into using mainly weapon skills for dps. If you search though the forums you will see many many complaints about that. Most builds use more weapon/guild skills than class skills (exceptions are maybe mag sorc and nightblades). You technically can run all DK skills but you are making your build a lot weaker. Im not talking about just a little bit weaker, there is a big difference in dps. If youre absolutely dead set on using more than 4-5 dk class skills I would recommend switching to a hydrid (mag/stam) tank role as its more possible to be successful. Even then you will need to use non class skills to make your tank viable.

Earlier in this thread I gave a list of 8 dk skills which are useful for a stam dps build. The most useful are generally the buff/debuff skills. Almost all of your dps is going to come from weapon skills (with exception of unstable flame). If youre running stam you generally are not going to want to use too many magicka skills because your magicka pool will be empty all the time, so you need to pick the ones that are most beneficial to your play style. If you are going stam, then you definitely want to use skills that base off your max stamina (unstable flame is one of them).

Im trying to recommend a mixture of both class/weapon skills that I know from experience works well. The recommended skill list i gave you has the opportunity to fit 5-6 dk skills in. At the end of the day you can use whatever skills you want. But the guy using a 2H/bow dps build thats casting a bunch of low/no dps class magicka skills is the guy that will have to be carried through the dungeon by the rest of his group (if he isnt kicked from the group after the first boss). It isnt necessarily right but thats how it is.

SmalltalkJava · January 2016

About the only hybrid builds that work are tank builds. because then its all about keeping resources up, defense and taunts. Foe example a hybrid sorc tank can trade one resource for another

Rebel230 · January 2016

I see deltiasgaming.com posted an updated build today claiming dw/ bow does a lot more damage. Should I go DW?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNLDxM9eaEA

I prefer the look of a 2 hander but if its a lot better.....

EDIT: I kind of jumped the gun on the vid, he is v16 with max gear and it looks like he changed due to getting maelstrom weapons.... still pretty bad a@@....

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 · January 2016

As others have said, you really have to choose one or the other because of how skill stats are calculated. BUT that doesn't mean you can't use some of the off skills still... Like, stamina based DK that still uses Flappy Wings, Whip, etc.

Also, as mentioned, tank is really the only role that can get away with being hybrid.