Hundings Rage (crafted items in general) need a nerf

Lucius_Aelius · January 2016

No, Crafted sets being so good is one of the best things about this game. And besides, researching traits takes forever.

strikeback1247 · January 2016

Just a thought for OP:

My build that I'm running right now consists of:
5x Briarheart (PVE daily set)
5x Hunding's rage (Crafted set)
2x Monster set (PVE dungeon set)

This means that my high end stamina build consists of PVE daily items, crafted items and PVE dungeon drops. This means that PVE questing is relevant, crafting is relevant and PVE dungeons are relevant. I'm also using a master's bow from DSA trial on my back bar and I would love to have some maelstrom weapons. Seems like a pretty damn balanced system to me.

I can clearly see that OP has come from WoW or another MMO like it. He's asking for specific PvP and PvE gear and he's asking for BiS from just endgame PvE. This is exactly what most people do NOT want in eso. There is more than enough grinding and RNG in this game already. Most people just want to get good gear and play. And if the hardcore players want to min/max, they can go for some better/interesting sets by grinding. However, I do agree that trials need some better gear. Luckily, vDSA will be scaled to v16 and we will get a new trial next patch.

Yorubuke · January 2016

Ok i literally could not stop laugh reading this tread. Basically this guy is pissed that his Sheer Venom Set sucks so he wants Hundings Rage nerfed because of it. Its all about ur build Hundings rage is for a Crit/Damage Stam Build. Sheer Venom obviously isnt, but there r other sets. Like Shadow walker, a drop set not craftable thats right up there with Hundings. Night Mother's Gaze is as well or even Ravaging Set.

Crafting gear takes alot more time than pepl think, it takes weeks literally weeks to research traits on 5 pieces to make Hundings rage. Yeh it might not be fair that some pepl have other make it for them but the pepl who actually researched all those traits put in just as much time if not more time than pepl who grinded Raids/trails for gear. And at VR16 u need so many mats to make the gear u have to spend days grinding the materials just to make a set.

I dont know what game u came from but Elder Scrolls has always been more about Crafting ur gear than wearing random gear u find.

RWKT · January 2016

Nooooo...leave them crafted things ALONE! If somebody puts all their time into researching traits and gathering mats and mastering a craft then the super-armor/wep sets are worth it. TOTALLY.

If anything...we need MORE set-forges!

WHO WANTS MORE SETS AND SET-FORGES?!?!?! : )

(we need to cut down the times it takes to research traits though...I have to wait 7 DAYS till my trait research on one of my heavy armor pieces is complete?? Too long, way too long, and I have an ESO membership & max'd out Blacksmith craft skills...where's the logic in that?)

Autolycus · January 2016

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Just a thought for OP:

My build that I'm running right now consists of:
5x Briarheart (PVE daily set)
5x Hunding's rage (Crafted set)
2x Monster set (PVE dungeon set)

This means that my high end stamina build consists of PVE daily items, crafted items and PVE dungeon drops. This means that PVE questing is relevant, crafting is relevant and PVE dungeons are relevant. I'm also using a master's bow from DSA trial on my back bar and I would love to have some maelstrom weapons. Seems like a pretty damn balanced system to me.

I can clearly see that OP has come from WoW or another MMO like it. He's asking for specific PvP and PvE gear and he's asking for BiS from just endgame PvE. This is exactly what most people do NOT want in eso. There is more than enough grinding and RNG in this game already. Most people just want to get good gear and play. And if the hardcore players want to min/max, they can go for some better/interesting sets by grinding. However, I do agree that trials need some better gear. Luckily, vDSA will be scaled to v16 and we will get a new trial next patch.

This is very insightful and I agree almost entirely. In the spirit of being constructive, I would note two things:
1. Trials gear was quite relevant when the trials were, well, relevant. Lots of people used Aether, Dreugh King Slayer, Yokeda, etc. up until a better option became available. I would suggest that those sets are no longer relevant specifically because the trials are no longer relevant.
2. Not so much a rebuttal as it is an informative bit, but vDSA is not actually going to scale in level. I forget the source, so if someone can find it please support with a link. But basically, TG is going to have an NPC that offers quests to go back and do older content, such as vDSA. It will still be at vr14, but the rewards for completion (turning quest in to NPC) will be vr16.

Thanks for the great post @strikeback1247

Callous2208 · January 2016

When does Legion drop so this guy can stop clogging the forums with asinine suggestions?

Autolycus · January 2016

Spacefiddle wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

You're not listening.

And he's not going to. Look, he posted a screenshot! That makes him an expert on crafting and on how much effort crafters put into what they do! Totally qualified to tell an entire segment of the gaming community that what they do doesn't count.

I mean, it'd be like me, someone who's been playing MMOs for 13 years, telling this kid that his mindless grinding of PvE content takes zero effort, because I've done it for probably longer than he's legally been allowed to be online without supervision, and I've seen how mindless the button-mash-dance can get when you're farming a place.

His definition of "effort" seems to be "how annoyed I am with the process." Farming is pissing him off, so it's a noble effort worthy of praise and reward. He doesn't think crafting is a big deal, so it doesn't count for anything. Simple!

Forget this kid, he's just going to keep yelling until someone holds his hand and consoles him that yes, you're right, those evil nasty crafters get everything for free and only spending hundreds of hours praying to RNGeezus is the Right Way to have Fun(tm).

Bah.

I could not have said this any better myself. Hit the nail right on the head with this one.

Autolycus · January 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

When does Legion drop so this guy can stop clogging the forums with asinine suggestions?

Lol

The sad part is, I would actually be open to having a mature discussion with the OP if he was capable of such. That's what I started here with anyway: a well-developed and thought-out post describing legitimate reasons why his point is not accurate, or at the very least not considering all the factors. But if 13 pages isn't enough to see that talking to him is like arguing with a brick wall, then I don't know what is.

I am actually genuinely interested in the vast majority of what everyone else is posting though, which the sole reason I'm still on this thread. I've seen some really cool gear combinations, and some very insightful posts relating to both the validity of crafted gear and dungeon drops alike.

On that note, thanks to everyone who is actually contributing to this discussion. There's a bad egg in every batch, but at least we are still able to walk away with a constructive discussion.

Decado · January 2016

I can't believe this thread is still going even after a mod came in here

You posted a picture of gear your crafted and said it makes 0 effort?

Does that mean I can post a picture of my storm proof and say vMA is no effort and your all wrong despite numerous people stating the opposite?

How many times and you going to completely ignore everything others say?

This thread has stopped being funny and had actually become really sad, people
Are spending a lot of time to reasonably explain there side of it to help you understand but your just ignoring that and saying your points are invalid

Why would you want to make the PvPers unhappy by locking best gear behind raid walls?

Why would you want to make the raiders with crappy luck unhappy by making them run the same dungeon hundreds of times with no luck?

I can safely say I have run vWGT over 100 times probably
Closer to 200 and I still don't have spell power cure, that's just insanity nobody apart from a select FEW want. Stop trying to force others to grind just because you want to

By this point I could run vWGT before I could farm the resources to make ONE piece of V16 gear

Sallington · January 2016

Dear OP,

You're problem, like many others with the same viewpoint, is not with the crafted gear, but with ZOS's terrible itemization and RNG on dropped gear. Many, many, many set would be more sought after drops if they scaled up to v16. Maybe ask for a system to be able to upgrade the countless currently useless armor sets?

You also mentioned the "work" needed in order to get a full set from vWGT or vICP. This, again is not a problem with crafted gear. It's a problem with terrible drop rates and HORRENDOUS RNG.

You could also be mad at the removal of soft caps and the implementation of the poorly thought out CP system. With no cap to DMG stats, people will stack said stats as high as possible. This is why certain crafted sets (like Hunding's) are so popular. With soft caps, there would be (was) more armor diversity.

Basically, you have plenty of things to be mad at, but crafted gear should be the absolute last thing on your list.

Love always,
Wearer of 5/5 Hunding's (and 1-piece Bloodspawn, 1-piece Molag Kena, and 3-piece Agility. all of which are non-crafted)

Autolycus · January 2016

Decado wrote: »

I can't believe this thread is still going even after a mod came in here

You posted a picture of gear your crafted and said it makes 0 effort?

Does that mean I can post a picture of my storm proof and say vMA is no effort and your all wrong despite numerous people stating the opposite?

How many times and you going to completely ignore everything others say?

This thread has stopped being funny and had actually become really sad, people
Are spending a lot of time to reasonably explain there side of it to help you understand but your just ignoring that and saying your points are invalid

Why would you want to make the PvPers unhappy by locking best gear behind raid walls?

Why would you want to make the raiders with crappy luck unhappy by making them run the same dungeon hundreds of times with no luck?

I can safely say I have run vWGT over 100 times probably
Closer to 200 and I still don't have spell power cure, that's just insanity nobody apart from a select FEW want. Stop trying to force others to grind just because you want to

By this point I could run vWGT before I could farm the resources to make ONE piece of V16 gear

And that's putting it lightly, really. I have 2 full sets of SPC, and I've probably run it upwards of 300 times, and I still believe it's one of, if not the best healing set in the game currently.

Sad part is, there are other sets of which I've only ever gotten 2 or 3 pieces. But then, you don't see me arguing that they aren't worthwhile either, that no matter what you or anyone else says "crafted is BiS." I've run with a guy who has been through WGT (which btw we have this on easymode farm by this point, we can run with 4 dps and not bat an eyelash) probably 200 times himself and never gotten a Kena helm, not even well-fitted or something.

But he isn't raging on the forums, he's just making the best of what he's got and trying again (that's why he's my friend, and the OP is not).

Shadesofkin · January 2016

This is the most entertaining thread in the forums at the moment.

strikeback1247 · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Just a thought for OP:

My build that I'm running right now consists of:
5x Briarheart (PVE daily set)
5x Hunding's rage (Crafted set)
2x Monster set (PVE dungeon set)

This means that my high end stamina build consists of PVE daily items, crafted items and PVE dungeon drops. This means that PVE questing is relevant, crafting is relevant and PVE dungeons are relevant. I'm also using a master's bow from DSA trial on my back bar and I would love to have some maelstrom weapons. Seems like a pretty damn balanced system to me.

I can clearly see that OP has come from WoW or another MMO like it. He's asking for specific PvP and PvE gear and he's asking for BiS from just endgame PvE. This is exactly what most people do NOT want in eso. There is more than enough grinding and RNG in this game already. Most people just want to get good gear and play. And if the hardcore players want to min/max, they can go for some better/interesting sets by grinding. However, I do agree that trials need some better gear. Luckily, vDSA will be scaled to v16 and we will get a new trial next patch.

This is very insightful and I agree almost entirely. In the spirit of being constructive, I would note two things:
1. Trials gear was quite relevant when the trials were, well, relevant. Lots of people used Aether, Dreugh King Slayer, Yokeda, etc. up until a better option became available. I would suggest that those sets are no longer relevant specifically because the trials are no longer relevant.
2. Not so much a rebuttal as it is an informative bit, but vDSA is not actually going to scale in level. I forget the source, so if someone can find it please support with a link. But basically, TG is going to have an NPC that offers quests to go back and do older content, such as vDSA. It will still be at vr14, but the rewards for completion (turning quest in to NPC) will be vr16.

Thanks for the great post @strikeback1247

Thanks for correcting me!

I'm pretty excited for those v16 master weapons and thought that the trial would also scale. And about the trial gear, what you're saying is very true. I think they already mentioned somewhere that they want to scale up lower level sets, so I hope trial gear will be among those.

Tallowby · January 2016

BiS for stamina ala Deltia

Looted & Crafted together what a thought...

Autolycus · January 2016

Tallowby wrote: »

BiS for stamina ala Deltia

Yeah, briar and hundings is going to be BiS for most physical builds. It's a good setup for sure. On my stam sorc I currently use 2 kena, 5 hundings, and 3 agility. It puts out a lot of damage, with the primary drawback being resource management. In PvE encounters stamina is rarely an issue, especially with 2h heavy/WB weaving (as opposed to light attack weaving). I've wanted to give briar a thorough testing on my stam sorc, but waiting for the right traits on pieces to drop. Currently have 3/5 briar pieces I want. I've gotten a bunch of briar but not the right traits.

Edit: Added to comment.

exeeter702 · January 2016

Kelleton wrote: »

"edorfeus wrote: »

But here, on the other hand. we see crying about crafted sets are "too easy to obtain and too op" only because the person is too lazy to invest time and effort to research traits.

Hundings gives massive amounts of crit and weapon damage. Hundings gives more weapon damage than the end game weapon damage set (sheer venom) while also giving absurd amounts of crit.

You see that is your problem right there. Sheer venom Is no more an "end game" set than hundings is.

FortheloveofKrist · January 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

When does Legion drop so this guy can stop clogging the forums with asinine suggestions?

No kidding. Can't we get a moderator to shut this stupid argument down. It's just pointless bickering, and the OP is just being stubborn and purposefully inflammatory. If ZoS made crafted sets worse than EVERY dropped set, I think they would lose a ton of crafters because many play the game for that reason. It promotes helpfulness and boosts in-game economy (crafted aren't BoP).

So please, put it to bed already. Jeeeebus.

TheDarkShadow · January 2016

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

willymchilybily · January 2016

13 pages.....cant believe this is still going.

Crafting

You can't craft jewelry
You cant craft master or Maelstrom Weapons
You can't Craft Monster Sets
You can't have only one craft if you want to hit top tier. potions/food/weapons/armor. How many skill points you got?
Research times increase exponentially.
Does time invested in crafting have less worth than time invested in group PvE content?

Hunding's too powerful

Weapon damage is not the be all and end all. This is a very limited perspective, and not looking at all aspects of game play. Eg PvP in particular. And all classes/Races/Setup.Tanks/healers etc
Julianos is the magicka mirror image, why did you picking on hundings in particular before saying nerf them all?
You are ignoring your prey. you an get more Damage from other sets depending what you are attacking. and need more recovery for some some content than hundings offers.
its a go to because its cheap to get hold of whilst levelling and good, good=/=best in slot

Nerf all other crafting

Option one, nerf crafted sets, option 2 buff dropped sets. You chose the WORST option. How is any one going to take anything you say seriously when your opening phrasing shows your lack of understanding of what is needed in this game.
There are existing drop sets that are better than crafted sets depending on game play. Most Imperial City sets are best in the game for PvE group play
Not all other crafted sets are on par with eachother. Some are very lack luster because they were created back when game mechanics were different.

Autolycus · January 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

TheDarkShadow · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

Ah... I don't have time to read all these pages. The OP lost me at page 3 lol.

Kelleton · January 2016

Tallowby wrote: »

BiS for stamina ala Deltia

Looted & Crafted together what a thought...

5 piece hundings...what a thought...

Tallowby · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

Thanks did not know there was an ignore feature..... Will be using this in the future with all close minded posters ;-)

Glaiceana · January 2016

I'm keeping an eye on this thread, reading most of the replies. Thank you everyone for all the useful and insightful information!
Also I think I'm going to use this as a diary while I'm at it

Quest for Hunding's Rage Diary Day 3:
Researching trait number 4 on both Helmet and Shoulders.
Researching trait number 3 on Bracers.
1 trait learned on both Belt and Boots so far.

gw2only1b14_ESO · January 2016

Tallowby wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

Thanks did not know there was an ignore feature..... Will be using this in the future with all close minded posters ;-)

I still want a reason for his QQ when he can be cookie cutter too.

But hes just a Kaka stirrer like many like to be

his best former post
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194372/came-back-for-1-day-remembered-why-i-left#latest

KatzMainTank · January 2016

Kelleton wrote: »

Why is the most powerful stam dps set in the game a crafted item rather than a dungeon/raid drop.

Look at the alternatives:
Sheer venom - lose 1376 crit; lose 39 weapon damage - gain a 1204 dps proc
Briarheart- lose 297 permanent weapon damage - gain proc on 10% of critical hits 152 weapon damage. + heal guaranteed downtime due to cooldown.
Essence Theif - lose 1376 crit, ; lose 168 weapon damage; gain proc off 15% of light attacks to gain 12% damage (sounds like a lot but it isn't due to buff stacking issues)

A set that takes 0 effort to obtain and allows you to set the traits 100% to your liking, beats out sets that take 100s of hours to obtain maybe 1000s due to RNG.

There is no risk vs reward here crafted items should not be best in slot.

...LOOOOOOOOOL

Please, tell us more.

Kelleton · January 2016

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

Tallowby wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

Thanks did not know there was an ignore feature..... Will be using this in the future with all close minded posters ;-)

I still want a reason for his QQ when he can be cookie cutter too.

But hes just a Kaka stirrer like many like to be

his best former post
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194372/came-back-for-1-day-remembered-why-i-left#latest

former post very valid, nirn and maces were broken...what is your point?

Messy1 · January 2016

Oh my god I cannot believe someone is suggesting nerfing these sets. What would be the point of becoming a crafter if nothing you can craft would be good? OMG

Kelleton · January 2016

Messy1 wrote: »

What would be the point of becoming a crafter if nothing you can craft would be good? OMG

What would be the point of doing end game content if nothing you can obtain would be good? OMG

gw2only1b14_ESO · January 2016

Kelleton wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

Tallowby wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Idk why this thread is still going. There is no one "right" or "wrong" here. Everyone have their favour play style, casual, pvp, raiding... But as I said this game target a different market. It focus on the casual. So no matter how much time you waste crying here, as long as the major player base disagree with you, ZoS will listen to the bigger group. So if this system does not satisfy your "elite" ego, go back to WoW.

The thread is still going because a lot of people have good information to share. I think we can all agree that the OP is the only reason to avoid this thread. Just put him on ignore like I did, and let's continue to discuss gear combinations. I personally have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the combinations of dropped sets and crafted sets that people have put together.

BiS or not, it's still interesting to see other builds and learn from them.

Thanks did not know there was an ignore feature..... Will be using this in the future with all close minded posters ;-)

I still want a reason for his QQ when he can be cookie cutter too.

But hes just a Kaka stirrer like many like to be

his best former post
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/194372/came-back-for-1-day-remembered-why-i-left#latest

former post very valid, nirn and maces were broken...what is your point?

My point was post 2 pages back and Nirn still used and same with Maul/mace they havent changed