Harassment. Is there anything to be done about it?

nimander99 · January 2016

I think we should create a protected class of people within ESO and a large bureaucratic organization that every player will automatically be taxed 30% of all gold earned to support said organization whose sole goal is to monitor everyone's game play and make sure they conform to Our definition of "appropriate" play.

DanteVFenris · January 2016

I'm sorry but how is this Zenimax's problem?

Do you really think Zenimax can control every single user on their game. Is it Zenimax Job to defend yourself? That's not their responsibility that is yours (to stop playing) or to use a type of social act to lean him away from that behaviour. You have the power, especially in a online scenario where physical force means 0.

ZOS_AlanG · January 2016

There are many players who use the report features, but far more who do not - which is why we take opportunities like this to promote them. Similarly, it's quite common for people to be unaware of the ignore feature, especially here on the forums where they were not initially available. We understand that some players would like to see more options, and as always welcome this feedback and discussion.

Zorrashi · January 2016

DanteVFenris wrote: »

I'm sorry but how is this Zenimax's problem?

Do you really think Zenimax can control every single user on their game. Is it Zenimax Job to defend yourself? That's not their responsibility that is yours (to stop playing) or to use a type of social act to lean him away from that behaviour. You have the power, especially in a online scenario where physical force means 0.

We don't expect them to "control them", we expect them to hold them accountable when it is known that they are making the game a less-than-savory environment.

Göttermutter · January 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

A large number of posts were removed from this thread, as well as any replies, and we are re-opening it. We ask that everyone remember to keep their posts civil and constructive, and abide by the forum rules. Additionally, if you feel that a comment or thread is inappropriate, please report it. It's also a good idea not to reply to anything you've reported, as your risk escalating the issue, and minimally you've embroiled yourself in it.

Regarding in-game harassment, if someone is acting inappropriately or you feel they are breaking the Terms of Service please report them in-game, or by submitting a ticket on the help site. The more detail you can provide, the easier it will be for us to investigate. Screenshots are particularly helpful - even for text chat, as it allows you to highlight the specific lines that offend you, and makes it easier for us to zero in on the appropriate part of the chat log.

As some have mentioned, you can also put players on an ignore list so they can't message you. This is an option both in-game and on the forums.

I dont agree only the therm of setting some players on the ignore list. The support team of you is not the best in the interpretation what is harassment and what is a content, also they are not minded in historical, political and in the association of synonyme words, who maybe looks the same but have another context in the meaning. So what your support do is only to pcik up some falling word out of a chatlog and give the standards back, you give them and bann. Thats your way, no thinking, no discussions are allowed.
Next part is, that to much new generation players mean they could play sheriffs and dont understand the MMO realy, so they interpret for example, "spamming, trolling etc. " wrong and i guess you from Zenimax also!

Q: Where comes one the word "troll" in a MMO?
A: This goes back over 20 years ago and comes up by developpers, who are overasking by problems, they cant find a answer of it, soo they said the "troll" is in! That`s all
Q: What is "spamming"?
A: also a simple answer of it and goes back to the seller parts and Goldsellerparts of other MMO`s. thats all! A spammer is who repeat his sayings more often than 4 or 5 times, including in a time period of 2o seconds.

Resumee: Many of here playing "new generations" dont knew the backrounds and also dont new the aspects of a MMO, included the support and YOU!
Take it like as a learning content.

ZOS_AlanG · January 2016

Göttermutter wrote: »

I dont agree only the therm of setting some players on the ignore list. The support team of you is not the best in the interpretation what is harassment and what is a content, also they are not minded in historical, political and in the association of synonyme words, who maybe looks the same but have another context in the meaning. So what your support do is only to pcik up some falling word out of a chatlog and give the standards back, you give them and bann. Thats your way, no thinking, no discussions are allowed.

If you are concerned that we will not understand why something is offensive, please explain in your report. Let us know if there's a special context to the situation; or a bad term is esoteric or in a language other than English, German, and French. This information makes us faster and more effective.

Wolfshead · January 2016

@RizaHawkeye

I'm sorry to hear this to be honest and it is 1st time since this game went online i read any post like this so yeah it is sad to see we have start to get those people here as well.

But what i most worry is the answer you got from the support team and what get most mad is that actually do have office hour honest this is 1st time i have read the MMO company have support team that is not work 24/7 i mean even blizzard that is a greedy and cheap MMO company do have GM that well come online and talk to you if the think it is serious problem and honest harassment in my book is on top off that list.

I love this game but know that you dont have any support more then between 9am and 10pm Eastern Standard Time i mean so we that play on EU server basically dont have any support at all that is REALLY REALLY BAD!!!

That mean we here on EU have support between 2pm to 4am so we have support in afternoon, evening and night what a good that well do us here in EU

Göttermutter · January 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Göttermutter wrote: »

I dont agree only the therm of setting some players on the ignore list. The support team of you is not the best in the interpretation what is harassment and what is a content, also they are not minded in historical, political and in the association of synonyme words, who maybe looks the same but have another context in the meaning. So what your support do is only to pcik up some falling word out of a chatlog and give the standards back, you give them and bann. Thats your way, no thinking, no discussions are allowed.

If you are concerned that we will not understand why something is offensive, please explain in your report. Let us know if there's a special context to the situation; or a bad term is esoteric or in a language other than English, German, and French. This information makes us faster and more effective.

Your support team dont react and understand content and offensive sayings not from a content and put all the same in one box!
Also they dont understand, that the sayings in PvP becomes a little bit harder around than in the PvE, because the emotions boring up some times.
This was not so at the beginning by MMO`s with PvP contents and after 2o years i can say, it is becoming harder in meanings, means "harder and stronger" words fall down and in the context of fights.
I knew it, becuase i brought in the first rouleplaying to the PvP, so it called afterwards.
The ignore buttom is the best reaction of something, you dont want hear and for persons you dont like in game, the report buttom is only for extremly harassments, like sexual, pervertions or for a propagandas.

Duiwel · January 2016

Not sure why, but there sure are many Call of Duty kids on this game lately.

I was in a farming spot last night, just returned from town after selling. There was another guy here as well ( note this was in early morning hours so we were the only 2 people in this entire area ).

I was killing along with him ( because exp does not reduce when you are 2 people & you kill faster ).

I also whispered him and asked if he would like to group.

His response in say chat was to #$*! off I am a stealer.

Even though I was a good 5VR higher than him...

I told him exp does not scale and ignored him immediately and went the opposite direction. I doubt he got any mobs after that because I rushed to kill of them to prove a point.

Glad you made this post OP.

Very interesting to see that Call of Duty kids are now infiltrating the MMO ranks...

My advice is just to stay in a positive mood ( don't let others steal your Chi ) and then instant ignore them.

65% of the time it works everytime

Göttermutter · January 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

Not sure why, but there sure are many Call of Duty kids on this game lately.

I was in a farming spot last night, just returned from town after selling. There was another guy here as well ( note this was in early morning hours so we were the only 2 people in this entire area ).

I was killing along with him ( because exp does not reduce when you are 2 people & you kill faster ).

I also whispered him and asked if he would like to group.

His response in say chat was to #$*! off I am a stealer.

Even though I was a good 5VR higher than him...

I told him exp does not scale and ignored him immediately and went the opposite direction. I doubt he got any mobs after that because I rushed to kill of them to prove a point.

Glad you made this post OP.

Very interesting to see that Call of Duty kids are now infiltrating the MMO ranks...

My advice is just to stay in a positive mood ( don't let others steal your Chi ) and then instant ignore them.

65% of the time it works everytime

If i tell you my hardest harassment examples over 2o years, you would think, you are kidding me.
Begins with trouing cot, sperma and nosepopels, next starts with *** you from behind until i am bleeding down, than we have the "succer my ***" fraction. The first i get a reaction by a so called public manager, who doesent react after some players start to throw sperma and cot on me ingame, he could see it at the chatlog and they reported me, so i get banned by saying he is an idiot and candle holder!

Salmonleap · January 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

The most effective thing, is to just AFK for about 15 minutes. Go make a snack and let them get it out of their system. By the time you come back to your AFK'ing character, they will have succumbed to boredom and moved on.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I do since my /ignore list is usually full. I'd trade a 6 month delay on DLCs for an infinite /ignore list and a couple years worth of DLCs for /ignore to render the other player invisible and non-intractable to my client.

istateres · January 2016

DanteVFenris wrote: »

I'm sorry but how is this Zenimax's problem?

Do you really think Zenimax can control every single user on their game. Is it Zenimax Job to defend yourself? That's not their responsibility that is yours (to stop playing) or to use a type of social act to lean him away from that behaviour. You have the power, especially in a online scenario where physical force means 0.

This is Zenimax's problem because they have NOT provided adequate controls for us. Clearly the OP doesn't feel the existing reporting system (and its timely response) is adequate. The text ignore feature is good, but we need a visual ignore too. Trolls want attention. If you can both textually and visually block them, they will get no attention in most cases.

willymchilybily · January 2016

so.....am i the only one that tries to out do them with imaginative correspondence? Young teens think they know the world. How easy it is to crumble their fragile little minds with only a fraction of the depravity i can bring to bare. such satisfaction.

I use to mute every one but the griefer in Call of duty so only he would hear me and no one else could report me. it also makes them look a little crazy talking to tthemselves about some less than appealing topics of conversation. and even if i get reported for griefing, a report submitted by someone who just got 6 of them himself tends to get overlooked.

....but yeah ignoring them completely, that would work. Although sometimes simply joining in with them seems to work too. They get their kick or get bored quite quickly that way too.

Depends what mood you are in i think.

willymchilybily · January 2016

on a second more serious note Zenimax could just take you out of phase with them. like what happens anyway in some areas when you are at a different stage of a quest to a friend.

you ignore some one you get taken out of phase with them or even simply a toggle to change phase.

Lysette · January 2016

istateres wrote: »

DanteVFenris wrote: »

I'm sorry but how is this Zenimax's problem?

Do you really think Zenimax can control every single user on their game. Is it Zenimax Job to defend yourself? That's not their responsibility that is yours (to stop playing) or to use a type of social act to lean him away from that behaviour. You have the power, especially in a online scenario where physical force means 0.

This is Zenimax's problem because they have NOT provided adequate controls for us. Clearly the OP doesn't feel the existing reporting system (and its timely response) is adequate. The text ignore feature is good, but we need a visual ignore too. Trolls want attention. If you can both textually and visually block them, they will get no attention in most cases.

While I agree with you, that the block (/ignore) should include a visual derendering of the offender and his effects, I think it is important to look at his action in a different way. Don't let it get to you, he is a poor person with anger management issues and a history of misfortune in his life - otherwise he would not do it. He will have to live with it all his life, while you will just observe it for a couple of minutes until he will get bored and leave. See it from this side, you can handle it, but he cannot.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

on a second more serious note Zenimax could just take you out of phase with them. like what happens anyway in some areas when you are at a different stage of a quest to a friend.

you ignore some one you get taken out of phase with them or even simply a toggle to change phase.

TBH the physical ignore is effective in a physical game....the verbal ignore is only really effective for text/voice.
So had this been a text based game or forum..it would have been sufficient.

It would be impossible for every client and the serve to maintain a list of who can ignore who.
It would also be impossible for ZOS staff to manage every situation and then judge.

SO.....agreed. The simplest and instantly effective option is a phase change button.
You and ZOS don't have to worry about any adjudication, banning, ignoring mechanisms.
You and the other player simply vanish from each others existence with no further programming required.
ZOS does this for cluster balancing anyway.

ZOS enabled phasing overrides for grouping.
Shouldn't be impossible to extend it.
The OP could have hit the phase shift button at any moment she liked.
No way this could work in PvP though other than people of your own faction.

Pendrillion · January 2016

I kind of concur with Göttermutter. At least when it is about the historical context of things. But I also concede that it is a horrible job being aware of all the cultural and historical idiosyncrasia.

I am also not a friend of over moderation. But the problem is a lot of the vocal people in low level zones, seem to have missed their education in manners and mannerisms. Also just politeness. The problem is of course a courant normale in the Internet because everyone seems to think that an avatar or a nickname does create a semblance of anonymity. But a lot of courts around the world agree that the Net is not an unpoliced space. And that many of the rules in our every day life apply to the Internet as well. And will be persecuted if must be. Thats also why there is a policy we virtua-sign when we install the game.

ZOS sets the standards. Its to protect themselves, and also to protect us players.

For me a major way to get rid of trolls are longer ignore lists. My 100s are more or less full. Of course I could unmute all the early ignored guild spammers. But there will be more people and more stupid stuff to filter. Or is that an upcoming crown store feature? Honi soit qui mal-y-pense.

@Göttermutter: Um Himmelswillen benutze keine Übersetzer um einen englischen Text zu verfassen.

Gerade Worte wie Armleuchter kann man nicht einfach so direkt ins Englische übersetzen...

MornaBaine · January 2016

I really do hope that Zeni is going to start taking this issue seriously and that they will finally admit that their current "system" is wholly inadequate. And then actually do something about it.

Kalebron · January 2016

Hmmm. By the terms of service, I could really report many people for violating using the "F" word to demean LGBTQ people.

Sunver · January 2016

I am indeed very sorry that some people experience harassment in game. To be honest I am not that much "touchy", but I certainly know people who are very sensitive. In the situation I would laugh hard at, someone else could really get nervous, to the point of tears. That is why we all have to fight with trolls and wrongdoers(thieves, scammers etc.). We will have the community we want only if we shape it that way.

Moonshadow66 · January 2016

Other than in RL, we have an ignore option in the game. We also can fast travel away, other than in RL. Reporting it goes for both in-game and RL. Just saying.

Anyways, a similar thing happened to me in the earlier game where a guy which I didn't know started whispering to me. First he pretended he needs an advice about his girlfriend's birthday present and whatnot, and if I would recommend some nice dessous or something like that.. then he admitted that he actually doesn't have a girlfriend and just wanted to talk about that stuff. The more he wrote, the more I pretended I didn't exactly understand what he's talking about (of course I did^^), and I remained friendly as if nothing happened. He was so bored that he stopped, and I haven't heard from him anymore

DaveMoeDee · January 2016

istateres wrote: »

DanteVFenris wrote: »

I'm sorry but how is this Zenimax's problem?

Do you really think Zenimax can control every single user on their game. Is it Zenimax Job to defend yourself? That's not their responsibility that is yours (to stop playing) or to use a type of social act to lean him away from that behaviour. You have the power, especially in a online scenario where physical force means 0.

This is Zenimax's problem because they have NOT provided adequate controls for us. Clearly the OP doesn't feel the existing reporting system (and its timely response) is adequate. The text ignore feature is good, but we need a visual ignore too. Trolls want attention. If you can both textually and visually block them, they will get no attention in most cases.

If people are impatient, that is on them. ZOS should not rashly ban. They need to investigate first.

They should be staffed 24/7 to deal with performance issues, but not for immediate banning. No system will be 'adequate' for certain people.

Regarding the OP, it sucks that you had to deal with the idiot but it is good that you reported them. Hopefully your case gets fully investigated. ZOS should have low tolerance for people who try to make the game unpleasant for others. I am fine with giving people a pass when it is unintentional, but drop the ban hammer if it is intentional harassment -- especially in PvE zones.

In PvP, I am fine with childish antics like teabagging. Yeah, it is juvenile and makes the person seem like a 13 year old, but you can always release and then come back and kill them. Why are you sitting around dead anyway? In PvE, the harasser is basically driving you from the game.

Lokov · January 2016

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

I am so freaking frustrated right now.

Last night, at approximately 12:00 a.m. my time, I was running a zone when a player began harassing me. The harassment took the form of following me around, making psudeo-sexual gestures, and asking inappropriate personal questions. When I tried to ignore the player, they began casting area spells to annoy me and mess up my game. When I finally stopped asked what was going on, the player responded with another sexually suggestive comment. I turned to leave (I was just trying to complete a quest in that area) and he (and I'm using He as the indefinite pronoun; I acknowledge it could have been a she) began throwing out additional comments, questions, and gestures. I finally told him that if he didn't stop I would report him. He LOLed me and then said he was going to report me for being a prude.

I tried to ignore him but he just continued to follow me. Finally, I did report him (twice, in fact, because he wouldn't stop) once with a screen shot and his character name. But of course, this is the response I got:

Greetings!

Thank you for your inquiry. Please note that our support office is currently closed. Our support hours are between 9am and 10pm Eastern Standard Time, seven days a week. We will investigate your inquiry as soon as we reopen.

Our goal is to investigate and respond to your contact within six business hours.

We appreciate your patience.

Warm Regards,
The Bethesda Support Team

I finally had to logged off to get away from him. I still have not received any further response from Zenimax or Bethesda.

Okay, so here's my question: What can we do about this? Yeah, report it but you can see how effective that is. Normally, I can just brush this adolescent behaivor off, but this person so intent upon interfering with what I was doing that I couldn't even play the freakin game. Yeah, I could have gone to another zone or teleported (for gold) away from the situation. But why should I have to do that?

I can anticipate some responses:

This is an MMO. You have to deal with this stuff.

No, I don't. If that is the response from Zenimax, then give me my money back, including the cost of the game and all the subscriptions I've paid. Is that unreasonable? You bet it is. But so is doing absolutely NOTHING to stop harassment in the game.

Zenimax deals with harassment. They just can't talk about it.

Really? You believe that? That seems to be really easy way of not doing anything and hoping the problem goes away. And clearly, they're not doing anything except during regular business hours.

Grow up and get a thick skin.

You do realize I couldn't play the game. This isn't a thick skin issue; I can fire off snarly responses with the best of them, and I'm happy to walk way from a jerk, if I can go somewhere else and do something else. I am not happy when I have to leave a quest and come back and finish it later because some idiot is intent upon ruining my game.

So my question to Zenimax employees is: How do you anticipate players dealing with this? Really? You made this game. You had to expect this would happen. What do you want players to do?

Yes, twelve hours later, I am still quite angry.

facepalm...
I know the solution - stop crying about that is helping.

reften · January 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

A large number of posts were removed from this thread, as well as any replies, and we are re-opening it. We ask that everyone remember to keep their posts civil and constructive, and abide by the forum rules. Additionally, if you feel that a comment or thread is inappropriate, please report it. It's also a good idea not to reply to anything you've reported, as your risk escalating the issue, and minimally you've embroiled yourself in it.

Regarding in-game harassment, if someone is acting inappropriately or you feel they are breaking the Terms of Service please report them in-game, or by submitting a ticket on the help site. The more detail you can provide, the easier it will be for us to investigate. Screenshots are particularly helpful - even for text chat, as it allows you to highlight the specific lines that offend you, and makes it easier for us to zero in on the appropriate part of the chat log.

As some have mentioned, you can also put players on an ignore list so they can't message you. This is an option both in-game and on the forums.

Wow. Just...wow. This right here is a stellar example of EVERYTHING that is wrong with the attitude of the powers that be in this game. You have been told time and time again that the way other players can and DO grief and harass players is a huge problem in this game. You have been told time and time again that the current system of reporting and /ignore for chat is NOT acceptable and does NOT address the problem. And yet you STILL trot out the canned answer above that does nothing but make those of us who HAVE been endlessly harassed feel like we just got griefed by ZOS. WTG Zeni, WTG.

What Zos does need is an auto submit thing that can take the last 10-20 lines of dialog in your chat box and submit it.

But here is the thing, if they strictly enforced their rules, they'd probably ban 10% to 20% of their player base.

Incrediclint · January 2016

Wolfshead wrote: »

@RizaHawkeye

I'm sorry to hear this to be honest and it is 1st time since this game went online i read any post like this so yeah it is sad to see we have start to get those people here as well.

But what i most worry is the answer you got from the support team and what get most mad is that actually do have office hour honest this is 1st time i have read the MMO company have support team that is not work 24/7 i mean even blizzard that is a greedy and cheap MMO company do have GM that well come online and talk to you if the think it is serious problem and honest harassment in my book is on top off that list.

I love this game but know that you dont have any support more then between 9am and 10pm Eastern Standard Time i mean so we that play on EU server basically dont have any support at all that is REALLY REALLY BAD!!!

That mean we here on EU have support between 2pm to 4am so we have support in afternoon, evening and night what a good that well do us here in EU

All MMO's used to have 24/7 GM support as well as all content available to all players for a measly $13 a month. Those were the good old days though where these games were more like a service and the devs felt they had a responsibility to the players and had to EARN that monthly subscription fee.

Free to play and micro transactions have changed all that though, yay!

Abeille · January 2016

Sunver wrote: »

I am indeed very sorry that some people experience harassment in game. To be honest I am not that much "touchy", but I certainly know people who are very sensitive.

I find this really important.

We often think that if something doesn't offend us, that then it shouldn't offend anyone else. That if it offends them but not us, then they must be "wrong". The truth is that everyone comes from a different background, we have different routines, personalities and experiences, different cultures and sensibilities. Something that doesn't affect me at all might affect you greatly, or the other way round.

And maybe it is not even on the psychological or emotional side, but it is just an inconvenience that can really affect someone's daily play time. Like on the OP's example, maybe doing something else for 20 minutes or so and coming back later would have solved the problem for the OP back then, but for some people, 20 minutes is half their available daily playtime, if that much. That can ruin a big part of someone's daily play time, and if it is tolerated, the next time they might ruin someone else's daily play time.

So really, better just try to put ourselves in other people's shoes for a bit, and be nice to each other.

nimander99 · January 2016

Everyone's so serious about this, is there not an ignore/block player option? So what if someone is being a tool? Tis a fact of life, specially in mmo's (they've been here since the very start, anon

) Seems to me you can just jump to a different shrine and that's that if they are really annoying.

Sorry this became such a prob for the op but I personally think everyone takes everything way too seriously and has far to thin of skin these days... ya darn whipper snappers, try walking up hill to school both ways while being bullied by actual irl physical people

Glaiceana · January 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

There are many players who use the report features, but far more who do not - which is why we take opportunities like this to promote them. Similarly, it's quite common for people to be unaware of the ignore feature, especially here on the forums where they were not initially available. We understand that some players would like to see more options, and as always welcome this feedback and discussion.

@ZOS_AlanG I have noticed that for in game reports, your details and message gets cut short. I have made several reports (not on harassment though), that describe in depth the problem. However, when I go to see my list of tickets, only a fraction of the start of my report is listed. Therefore anyone viewing this report would get very little information. What this means is that every ticket in my overview in my support account is nearly invalid, since only part of the subject is shown. I then have to retype the rest of my message from memory that I had typed in game into the browser instead. Can you expand on this?

EDIT: Adding this image to show what I mean as example:

This report was made about a graphical glitch that everyone could see. I had written down everything about the location etc. BUT, as you can see, only part of the report is visible, only the start of the message got through to the system from in game. Therefore making it a useless report. There is no other information. This was the first report I made, and have since forgotten the location, therefore cannot add the missing information now.

Nilmot · January 2016

Run to nearest wayshrine, which are within a minute or 2 from basically everywhere, and port to anywhere else. Do your banking, selling, repairing, then go back. Pram solved.

BabeestorGor · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

I stopped playing my female character. I'd get whispered out of no where a lot more often than my male ones did. I finally gave up playing her when some guy messaging me asking about my sex life. When I told him I was a dude he was like "Yeaah right". He shut up when I threatened to send him dik pics, so perhaps you could try that.

Hmmm, I have 8 feamle char

nimander99 wrote: »

Everyone's so serious about this, is there not an ignore/block player option? So what if someone is being a tool? Tis a fact of life, specially in mmo's (they've been here since the very start, anon ) Seems to me you can just jump to a different shrine and that's that if they are really annoying.

Sorry this became such a prob for the op but I personally think everyone takes everything way too seriously and has far to thin of skin these days... ya darn whipper snappers, try walking up hill to school both ways while being bullied by actual irl physical people

I do and I don't agree with this
Certainly nobody has managed to stop me playing or drive me from a zone but I don't see why I or anyone else should have to put up with ill-mannered brats, never mind the outright racists, sexists, homophobes etc who should just be banned
I think I'm going to start reporting more idiots rather than just ignoring them
Maybe if enough people do this the message will get through that such behaviour isn't acceptable and the game will be a pleasanter place for everyone