Rune_Relic wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

It's stupide why should I go in white gold tower with someone who can barely do dps .... Well I get its for making me losing my time ( that's what some player already think and now they will just keep playing with there elite group to be sure they don't get someone who can't dps )

You mean why should you be grouped with new, inexperienced or not so good players right ?
They're someone else's problem.

And when the game is full of hardcore players...that treat all newcomers as ... not their problem..so no new players can play the game content and leave.
And when the lesser hardcore players are also not good enough and don't make it into the real hardcore group and they start to leave.
And when that hardcore content is made ever harder to satisfy the hardest of the hardcore to ensure it is actually only them that can complete the content anyway (L2P and git gud nub)...driving everyone away but those special players standing atop their very own ivory tower.

It will be a very lonely place you thrive in when ZOS shuts down the servers.
Never mind though. You can just jump to another game and rinse/repeat.

God forbid someone who's done over 100s of clears of a dungeon doesn't want to train a newbie. Can't newbie's figure it out on their own, maybe make a newbie group where they all learn together? You know, like we did.....

@Rune_Relic the problem with your statement is that you assume our reason for existing in ESO is to train new players and that a new player is not smart enough to form a group of similar players and learn on their own accord.

News Flash: We are playing a game just like you. We don't clock in with the express interest of running a day camp. It's not any player's responsibility to teach and carry new players. We do it however, because some of us generally care about helping people, but in no way is it our responsibility to do so. If it's not fun for us, should we be forced to do it just because someone like you feels we should? Do you think a newbie having fun and learning is more important than our personal enjoyment of the game? Mind boggling....I guess were not supposed to enjoy ourselves because, if we don't group with new players, ESO will mysteriously deteriorate and crumble out of existence.

When I started....when we all started, we learned forming groups and we were all new players...that's how we did it. When the game launched in Feb 2014, and everyone was new, was this a problem? OMG how did we all manage?! Why didn't everyone leave then?! .........Everyone was new and we learned together. Stop spewing this garbage. If they are that lazy and dependent on others to do the work for them...good riddance. If a new player, can't form a group with other new players and learn, that IS NOT our problem.

I'm getting really sick of the entitlement and laziness in the casual and new player community here.

That's why there is normal and veteran modes. So new players can learn. But they're impatient, and skip that, go right to veteran dungeons and then come here to cry about getting kicked from groups.

You know... You can tell if a player is doing good or bad DPS just by looking at him, you just need to have a very toddler-like basic comprehension of the skills they are using, and keep an eye on the boss'es health bar wich you already have tons of info about....
I mean, heck you can freaking see the heavy attacks or crystal shards spam.

Cuyler wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

It's stupide why should I go in white gold tower with someone who can barely do dps .... Well I get its for making me losing my time ( that's what some player already think and now they will just keep playing with there elite group to be sure they don't get someone who can't dps )

You mean why should you be grouped with new, inexperienced or not so good players right ?
They're someone else's problem.

And when the game is full of hardcore players...that treat all newcomers as ... not their problem..so no new players can play the game content and leave.
And when the lesser hardcore players are also not good enough and don't make it into the real hardcore group and they start to leave.
And when that hardcore content is made ever harder to satisfy the hardest of the hardcore to ensure it is actually only them that can complete the content anyway (L2P and git gud nub)...driving everyone away but those special players standing atop their very own ivory tower.

It will be a very lonely place you thrive in when ZOS shuts down the servers.
Never mind though. You can just jump to another game and rinse/repeat.

God forbid someone who's done over 100s of clears of a dungeon doesn't want to train a newbie. Can't newbie's figure it out on their own, maybe make a newbie group where they all learn together? You know, like we did.....

@Rune_Relic the problem with your statement is that you assume our reason for existing in ESO is to train new players and that a new player is not smart enough to form a group of similar players and learn on their own accord.

News Flash: We are playing a game just like you. We don't clock in with the express interest of running a day camp. It's not any player's responsibility to teach and carry new players. We do it however, because some of us generally care about helping people, but in no way is it our responsibility to do so. If it's not fun for us, should we be forced to do it just because someone like you feels we should? Do you think a newbie having fun and learning is more important than our personal enjoyment of the game? Mind boggling....I guess were not supposed to enjoy ourselves because, if we don't group with new players, ESO will mysteriously deteriorate and crumble out of existence.

When I started....when we all started, we learned forming groups and we were all new players...that's how we did it. When the game launched in Feb 2014, and everyone was new, was this a problem? OMG how did we all manage?! Why didn't everyone leave then?! .........Everyone was new and we learned together. Stop spewing this garbage. If they are that lazy and dependent on others to do the work for them...good riddance. If a new player, can't form a group with other new players and learn, that IS NOT our problem.

I'm getting really sick of the entitlement and laziness in the casual and new player community here.

That's why there is normal and veteran modes. So new players can learn. But they're impatient, and skip that, go right to veteran dungeons and then come here to cry about getting kicked from groups.

Funny stuff. I guess you learned everything you know on your own without anyone else helping out huh?

The difference is that at launch there were plenty of others needing to learn these things. As MMO's age they'll have fewer players that need to learn mechanics which limits the options for newer players]. It's even worse when the existing player base has attitude's such as yours. There are far fewer noobs a year after launch then at launch. None of the content in ESO takes long to do, and a couple sentences of advice only takes a minute or two. Players at launch have it FAR easier then those that come later when it comes to anything involving other players. At launch your ALLOWED to not know things and you don't have to worry about someone getting pissy about it.

Have you ever even played a MMO in which the community pisses on it's new players and witnessed the game crumble?

Nurture the noobs or watch the game die, new players are the lifeblood of every MMO and there are plenty of low population or dead MMO's that can attest to this. Pass on your game wisdom and knowledge, it doesn't take that damn long.

I ran with elitist guild groups in DAOC for years and didn't realize how bad it was for new players until I started on a new server to play with my kids (yes these guilds shunned new players).

Every MMO should have a patron/vassal system similar to what Asheron's Call has, encourages players to be helpful with xp passup to those above you (think pyramid scheme).

I also find it hard to put "elite" and ESO in the same sentence, the content isn't challenging enough for the word.

I don't understand this elitist attitude one bit. "Oh you can't do this, get out of my group." "Of you are wasting our time!"

Like what? Are you negotiating a nuclear deal between Iran and the United States? Get over yourself, you are playing a game, you are not busy and most certainly, you are not important. If you can't help people who are trying to learn, you are nothing but a ***.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

It's stupide why should I go in white gold tower with someone who can barely do dps .... Well I get its for making me losing my time ( that's what some player already think and now they will just keep playing with there elite group to be sure they don't get someone who can't dps )

You mean why should you be grouped with new, inexperienced or not so good players right ?
They're someone else's problem.

And when the game is full of hardcore players...that treat all newcomers as ... not their problem..so no new players can play the game content and leave.
And when the lesser hardcore players are also not good enough and don't make it into the real hardcore group and they start to leave.
And when that hardcore content is made ever harder to satisfy the hardest of the hardcore to ensure it is actually only them that can complete the content anyway (L2P and git gud nub)...driving everyone away but those special players standing atop their very own ivory tower.

It will be a very lonely place you thrive in when ZOS shuts down the servers.
Never mind though. You can just jump to another game and rinse/repeat.

Your fear mongering is showing.

Cuyler wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

It's stupide why should I go in white gold tower with someone who can barely do dps .... Well I get its for making me losing my time ( that's what some player already think and now they will just keep playing with there elite group to be sure they don't get someone who can't dps )

You mean why should you be grouped with new, inexperienced or not so good players right ?
They're someone else's problem.

And when the game is full of hardcore players...that treat all newcomers as ... not their problem..so no new players can play the game content and leave.
And when the lesser hardcore players are also not good enough and don't make it into the real hardcore group and they start to leave.
And when that hardcore content is made ever harder to satisfy the hardest of the hardcore to ensure it is actually only them that can complete the content anyway (L2P and git gud nub)...driving everyone away but those special players standing atop their very own ivory tower.

It will be a very lonely place you thrive in when ZOS shuts down the servers.
Never mind though. You can just jump to another game and rinse/repeat.

God forbid someone who's done over 100s of clears of a dungeon doesn't want to train a newbie. Can't newbie's figure it out on their own, maybe make a newbie group where they all learn together? You know, like we did.....

@Rune_Relic the problem with your statement is that you assume our reason for existing in ESO is to train new players and that a new player is not smart enough to form a group of similar players and learn on their own accord.

News Flash: We are playing a game just like you. We don't clock in with the express interest of running a day camp. It's not any player's responsibility to teach and carry new players. We do it however, because some of us generally care about helping people, but in no way is it our responsibility to do so. If it's not fun for us, should we be forced to do it just because someone like you feels we should? Do you think a newbie having fun and learning is more important than our personal enjoyment of the game? Mind boggling....I guess were not supposed to enjoy ourselves because, if we don't group with new players, ESO will mysteriously deteriorate and crumble out of existence.

When I started....when we all started, we learned forming groups and we were all new players...that's how we did it. When the game launched in Feb 2014, and everyone was new, was this a problem? OMG how did we all manage?! Why didn't everyone leave then?! .........Everyone was new and we learned together. Stop spewing this garbage. If they are that lazy and dependent on others to do the work for them...good riddance. If a new player, can't form a group with other new players and learn, that IS NOT our problem.

I'm getting really sick of the entitlement and laziness in the casual and new player community here.

That's why there is normal and veteran modes. So new players can learn. But they're impatient, and skip that, go right to veteran dungeons and then come here to cry about getting kicked from groups.

The group damage mourning is strong with this one.

People worry way too much about what other people are doing. My experience has been that people who are quick to place blame are often the very people who are causing the problem.

Incrediclint wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

mrdaveqc wrote: »

It's stupide why should I go in white gold tower with someone who can barely do dps .... Well I get its for making me losing my time ( that's what some player already think and now they will just keep playing with there elite group to be sure they don't get someone who can't dps )

You mean why should you be grouped with new, inexperienced or not so good players right ?
They're someone else's problem.

And when the game is full of hardcore players...that treat all newcomers as ... not their problem..so no new players can play the game content and leave.
And when the lesser hardcore players are also not good enough and don't make it into the real hardcore group and they start to leave.
And when that hardcore content is made ever harder to satisfy the hardest of the hardcore to ensure it is actually only them that can complete the content anyway (L2P and git gud nub)...driving everyone away but those special players standing atop their very own ivory tower.

It will be a very lonely place you thrive in when ZOS shuts down the servers.
Never mind though. You can just jump to another game and rinse/repeat.

God forbid someone who's done over 100s of clears of a dungeon doesn't want to train a newbie. Can't newbie's figure it out on their own, maybe make a newbie group where they all learn together? You know, like we did.....

@Rune_Relic the problem with your statement is that you assume our reason for existing in ESO is to train new players and that a new player is not smart enough to form a group of similar players and learn on their own accord.

News Flash: We are playing a game just like you. We don't clock in with the express interest of running a day camp. It's not any player's responsibility to teach and carry new players. We do it however, because some of us generally care about helping people, but in no way is it our responsibility to do so. If it's not fun for us, should we be forced to do it just because someone like you feels we should? Do you think a newbie having fun and learning is more important than our personal enjoyment of the game? Mind boggling....I guess were not supposed to enjoy ourselves because, if we don't group with new players, ESO will mysteriously deteriorate and crumble out of existence.

When I started....when we all started, we learned forming groups and we were all new players...that's how we did it. When the game launched in Feb 2014, and everyone was new, was this a problem? OMG how did we all manage?! Why didn't everyone leave then?! .........Everyone was new and we learned together. Stop spewing this garbage. If they are that lazy and dependent on others to do the work for them...good riddance. If a new player, can't form a group with other new players and learn, that IS NOT our problem.

I'm getting really sick of the entitlement and laziness in the casual and new player community here.

That's why there is normal and veteran modes. So new players can learn. But they're impatient, and skip that, go right to veteran dungeons and then come here to cry about getting kicked from groups.

Funny stuff. I guess you learned everything you know on your own without anyone else helping out huh?

The difference is that at launch there were plenty of others needing to learn these things. As MMO's age they'll have fewer players that need to learn mechanics which limits the options for newer players]. It's even worse when the existing player base has attitude's such as yours. There are far fewer noobs a year after launch then at launch. None of the content in ESO takes long to do, and a couple sentences of advice only takes a minute or two. Players at launch have it FAR easier then those that come later when it comes to anything involving other players. At launch your ALLOWED to not know things and you don't have to worry about someone getting pissy about it.

Have you ever even played a MMO in which the community pisses on it's new players and witnessed the game crumble?

Nurture the noobs or watch the game die, new players are the lifeblood of every MMO and there are plenty of low population or dead MMO's that can attest to this. Pass on your game wisdom and knowledge, it doesn't take that damn long.

I ran with elitist guild groups in DAOC for years and didn't realize how bad it was for new players until I started on a new server to play with my kids (yes these guilds shunned new players).

Every MMO should have a patron/vassal system similar to what Asheron's Call has, encourages players to be helpful with xp passup to those above you (think pyramid scheme).

I also find it hard to put "elite" and ESO in the same sentence, the content isn't challenging enough for the word.

If only there was some video of how to clear pretty much all content in ESO. I mean like it's hard to type something in google and then learn from what people have put out on them inter webs.

sirrmattus wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

the kind of players that would use this add-on should probably not be doing pug runs anyway. if your going to have an elitist attitude about grouping then maybe you should only group with people like you that you know from your guilds or friends list.

if you have this kind of attitude and pug a lot, your setting yourself up for rage and irritation, know your place.

You are incorrect

no you.

siddique wrote: »

I don't understand this elitist attitude one bit. "Oh you can't do this, get out of my group." "Of you are wasting our time!"

Like what? Are you negotiating a nuclear deal between Iran and the United States? Get over yourself, you are playing a game, you are not busy and most certainly, you are not important. If you can't help people who are trying to learn, you are nothing but a ***.

Forcing people to do things they don't want to do is being a ****. Isn't that like the whole premise here? Players feel forced to show their damage and are crying because they don't want to? Ignorant

I guess the double standards don't matter to you.

siddique wrote: »

I have no issues with damage being shown or not. Nor do I say anyone should be forced to do anything. I say players who are worth anything will help new players if they can, and they should.

Acting all high and mighty in a game doesn't make sense. Saying you are "wasting your time," is a waste of time when you can simply suggest what the newbie is doing wrong. Now, if they don't listen and are unwilling to learn, that is another thing.

It's already been stated that telling players they are doing something wrong while grouped with them is RUDE. And pointing out this sort of thing is clearly wrong otherwise why would they want to opt out of Group Damage.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@sirrmattus you can probably still use FTC addon, it has a function where the group members can choose to share their dps with other group members, and it's a requirement that they allow that function.

I haven't tested wether it works or not yet with this patch though.... I hope someone els here is faster than I am to report back on this

I was running 3 diff dmg addons. They all on diff timers. And it was great for us. Now it's all ruined. Why do I keep subscribing to this massive pile of *** game?

You certainly are an elite whiner, lol.

Go play a different game man.

I'm not elite. I try very hard to be good. I can't even pass vma. I don't want to play a diff game. I want them to fix the problems with the game instead of *** up our addons

sirrmattus wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@sirrmattus you can probably still use FTC addon, it has a function where the group members can choose to share their dps with other group members, and it's a requirement that they allow that function.

I haven't tested wether it works or not yet with this patch though.... I hope someone els here is faster than I am to report back on this

I was running 3 diff dmg addons. They all on diff timers. And it was great for us. Now it's all ruined. Why do I keep subscribing to this massive pile of *** game?

You certainly are an elite whiner, lol.

Go play a different game man.

I'm not elite. I try very hard to be good. I can't even pass vma. I don't want to play a diff game. I want them to fix the problems with the game instead of *** up our addons

They are fixing the game, doubt this took away from any fixes, they said they didn't want to show that kind of data.

siddique wrote: »

I have no issues with damage being shown or not. Nor do I say anyone should be forced to do anything. I say players who are worth anything will help new players if they can, and they should.

Acting all high and mighty in a game doesn't make sense. Saying you are "wasting your time," is a waste of time when you can simply suggest what the newbie is doing wrong. Now, if they don't listen and are unwilling to learn, that is another thing.

Well again, I do help a lot of newbies, so I hope you're not referring to me specifically. Frankly however, from personal experience, it is exactly that...usually a waste of time...and for several reasons:

1. too stubborn (denial)
2. a debilitating disability
3. Casual player 1 ( Only plays 1 hour a day aka will never get the gear to achieve a level of competency)
4. Accepts criticism but doesn't implement. Laziness or #3
5. Casual player 2. ( Generally receptive but the next week leaves the game/ doesn't log on for a month)
6. Dungeon will take longer, much longer sometimes or result in no clear, reward.

Training newbies has wasted my time 90% of the time I've tried BUT the 10% that pull through and get better make it worth it in the end for ME. I don't criticize those that feel it's a waste of time, because generally it is. There is no benefit to the "teacher" in these cases, aka a waste of time, even though they've tried.