My take on misconception of cloak.

Autolycus · January 2016

siddique wrote: »

I can feel the hatred rising already. :S :P

Autolycus wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

I have a special kind of hatred for NBs. I hate them all. However, finding a cloaked NB hiding like a sneaky little bastid behind a pillar, using detection pot, and then murdering them is one of the finest pleasures of life.

Ah, the bliss.

You would truly hate me then. I don't stand still, and I don't cloak. Most sorcs I go up against can't even shield stack fast enough to keep up with my damage. I don't need that much CC, although I have plenty of it.

perhaps we will run into each other at some point! Let the games begin!

Autolycus · January 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

Recently started playing a nightblade just to jump on the FOTM class and I must say DAMN.... so much burst on squishy targets.

Caltrops is something I hate more then anything while on my NB. Sure it's expensive to use it but it's imo the best anti NB ability in the game

Indeed, caltrops is quite effective.

MaxwellC · January 2016

The problem with cloak to is the simple fact you can cloak while inside an AoE and move away from it because after 1 seconds if you're still in the AoE it will un-cloak you due to damage but.. if you get out of the AoE it's a whole different story.

Caltrops is wonderful but at 5k+ stam cost I can't afford to use that more than twice and if they're popping vigor/retreat manuvers in-between it's a done game since I'm low on resources and they're just like "Yup full HP #DealWitIt".

mr1sho · January 2016

If people going cry about Nightblades let's talk about Templars with their instant heals and *** spamming

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In other games the Rogue Class can choose to be stealthed at all times and only comes out of stealth as he/she pleases. Makes the class a very deadly class in other games.

While NBs are very versatile and hardhitting here. Theyre no where near as deadly as Rogue Classes of other games. Not even close.

The majority of cries for the NB nerfs revolve around a failure on the players part to realize what it is thats defeating them and why. They see something on the death recap and instantly assume that thats all the information they need to come to a conclusion as to what the problem is. They fail to ask the hard questions.

What was I doing that caused me to end up in this situation?
What could I have done differently to fix it?
What was the other guy doing that was so successful?
Why was it successful?
Is there something I have access to that can counter that?
What can I change about my habits/skills and overall playstyle to help defeat this next time?

Players get in this rut where they assume a certain role, play a very particular playstyle (which depending on what it is may or may not be easily exploited by others in PvP) and then get frustrated when another player comes along that has the ability to tackle them and their build and defeat them. There is no 'What can I do to adapt?', only 'Thats OP because it cant be easily countered with my build'.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

Revealing flare takes forever to get tho as a PvEr in IC, rest of what you mentioned are stam abilities, and magicka builds got what, elemental ring? Having to use potions every 45 seconds that cost a lot to counter 1 skill is just broken design, but NB's want to have their OP advantage I guess.....

mtwiggz · January 2016

Can definitely confirm, as having a character of all classes, I haven't feared a Magicka NB since 1.4. They, or we, can cloak around in circles all day flailing our limp noodles around, it's not intimidating.

Volkodav · January 2016

If all those who think NBs are able to do more,are OP,..why not make one and play it so you,too,can rule? Instead of yelping about them,just play one.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

It is a console issue people sit in town and cry about NB refusing to do anything to learn to counter. Let them whine they already know it all no sense talking to them.

where do you see people crying that they are from console, this discussion isn't just because of console. you are putting things together out of thin air mr pc masta race ***

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In other games the Rogue Class can choose to be stealthed at all times and only comes out of stealth as he/she pleases. Makes the class a very deadly class in other games.

While NBs are very versatile and hardhitting here. Theyre no where near as deadly as Rogue Classes of other games. Not even close.

The majority of cries for the NB nerfs revolve around a failure on the players part to realize what it is thats defeating them and why. They see something on the death recap and instantly assume that thats all the information they need to come to a conclusion as to what the problem is. They fail to ask the hard questions.
What was I doing that caused me to end up in this situation?

What could I have done differently to fix it?

What was the other guy doing that was so successful?

Why was it successful?

Is there something I have access to that can counter that?

What can I change about my habits/skills and overall playstyle to help defeat this next time?

Players get in this rut where they assume a certain role, play a very particular playstyle (which depending on what it is may or may not be easily exploited by others in PvP) and then get frustrated when another player comes along that has the ability to tackle them and their build and defeat them. There is no 'What can I do to adapt?', only 'Thats OP because it cant be easily countered with my build'.

you forget according to them they don't make mistakes ever

Junkogen · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

Can other classes heal while their shields are up? Yes, they can. Why is it okay for every other class to be able to heal while shielded but it's not okay for a NB while they're using their defensive ability. Again, it's purely defensive, plus has counters.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

Flare doesn't stop nb's cloaking ^^ stop them from stealthing, not cloaking.

But if they can't cloak then it's just a DoT purge

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2016

Oh look another NB saying "cloak isn't OP just L2P or hate on stamina".

Here is the shortest version of the problem with cloak. A NB can basically reset the battle for them selves as many times as they want and doesn't help out at all when cloak negates single target attacks and removes DOTs and other forms of negative effects. The counters for cloak are total garbage AOEs just walk out of them detection potions only last like 10 seconds and range of 20 meters almost all the NB skills have 20+ range and reveling flare barely works as is if they get hit by it they just run around a rock or tree till it wears off.

-resets battle for NB
-cancels single target attacks
-horrible counters

Cloak was a means for escape not some abused goddess skill that can give a 85% win chance against any one. As I said before it is either the counters being detection potions and lingering flare get buffed up to actual be useful against it or cloak gets nerfed.

Those are the only 2 options so take your poison NBs.

lathbury · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another NB saying "cloak isn't OP just L2P or hate on stamina".

Here is the shortest version of the problem with cloak. A NB can basically reset the battle for them selves as many times as they want and doesn't help out at all when cloak negates single target attacks and removes DOTs and other forms of negative effects. The counters for cloak are total garbage AOEs just walk out of them detection potions only last like 10 seconds and range of 20 meters almost all the NB skills have 20+ range and reveling flare barely works as is if they get hit by it they just run around a rock or tree till it wears off.

-resets battle for NB
-cancels single target attacks
-horrible counters

Cloak was a means for escape not some abused goddess skill that can give a 85% win chance against any one. As I said before it is either the counters being detection potions and lingering flare get buffed up to actual be useful against it or cloak gets nerfed.

Those are the only 2 options so take your poison NBs.

almost all nb skills have 20+ range lol

Robotmafia · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

in other games only the rogue class can stealth... here any class can.. yes not as well as a nb but they can...

and in remember people crying about rogues in wow 2... be stunlocked to death...

and sorcs can port away heal and shield up again and come back... not much different to cloak imo.. except cloak has more counters and requires more skill than porting away...

your healing in stealth issue could be resolved by having vigor break stealth...

in the end people will always flame about a class skill their class doesnt have... cloak can be good for escaping and a rogue class needs a good escape strategy... otherwise we can all just play tanks with 45k hp and stand around holding eachother D***s...

Knootewoot · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

But that is the stamblade. A magblade uses healing ward or any other healing staff healing. And that breaks cloak and stealth. So nerfing cloak is destroying magblade.

Maybe certain skills should pop stamblade out of stealth. Vigor, Rally and manouvres. But think about an asked nerf first because it might affect and destroy other things also. That is why TESO is in this messy state in the first place. A nerf in PvP can mean an unnecessary nerf in PvE land.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh look another NB saying "cloak isn't OP just L2P or hate on stamina".

Here is the shortest version of the problem with cloak. A NB can basically reset the battle for them selves as many times as they want and doesn't help out at all when cloak negates single target attacks and removes DOTs and other forms of negative effects. The counters for cloak are total garbage AOEs just walk out of them detection potions only last like 10 seconds and range of 20 meters almost all the NB skills have 20+ range and reveling flare barely works as is if they get hit by it they just run around a rock or tree till it wears off.

-resets battle for NB
-cancels single target attacks
-horrible counters

Cloak was a means for escape not some abused goddess skill that can give a 85% win chance against any one. As I said before it is either the counters being detection potions and lingering flare get buffed up to actual be useful against it or cloak gets nerfed.

Those are the only 2 options so take your poison NBs.

yes caltrops is so garbage you don't see it ever in PvP lawls

willymchilybily · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

I am stam blade and I still have like 1100 magic recovery so I can def still spam cloack 4-6 times

sounds like you are running Drinks and using tri pots? or maybe a few enchants/mundus options? Eitherway, you have sacraficed health and some damage or possibly lot of damage to achieve this.

but if 3 extra cloaks for a minimum of 10% less damage and 25% less health is your thing. Then power to you. but unless you run purge.. mark target is still gonna ruin any stamina NB. Magicka NB are much more likely to run such a skill, but their armor is paper to make up for it.

Infinite12 wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

welcome to forums...

Where people who haven't played a particular class feel they have insight enough on that class without needing to experience it, to dictate game mechanic changes.

the amount of garbage I hear about sorc shields, and nb cloak from people who clearly by their post haven't even tried the class in pvp, is frustrating & so tiring.

I do agree with this, but I've played every class and sorc is the easiest by far. They have very few draw backs. Eve with the bolt escape nerf it was still easy for me to get away and the shield stacking makes you're defense excellent and you have plenty of high damage abilities. Every other class has negatives, nightblades it's health and being squishy, DK's the draw back is.....everything lol, and templars have terrible mobility and no escape. Sorc shields need a nerf. They need to be crit able in my opinion.

your signature reads
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[My Characters]
Ragnhild VR16 Nord DK I 2h/Bow (PVP) or 2h/Dual Wield (PVE)
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i see no sorc.... My experience is the exact opposite to yours. maybe no one on Xbox knows how to CC? 3 dodge rolls before potting or death, or 1 break free and 1 dodge roll? 40k magicka gives what an 18k (9k in cyrodil) shield. sorry this is the wrong thread and i just plain disagree.

willymchilybily · January 2016

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

Revealing flare takes forever to get tho as a PvEr in IC, rest of what you mentioned are stam abilities, and magicka builds got what, elemental ring? Having to use potions every 45 seconds that cost a lot to counter 1 skill is just broken design, but NB's want to have their OP advantage I guess.....

OverPowered? what a horrible term, all classes have defences and survival methods

Dk = reflective scale = use melee or maicka det/veliciouscurse/mages wrath all negate it. and CC for the win
Templar = class heal = major defile skill + disease enchant That 7-10k PvE breath of life is now 1.8 - 2.5k PvP heal
sorc = class shield = shield breaker and/or physical damage + CC
NB = stealth. = radiant mage light + detectpot (immovable and detection preferred)

Now to say one is "OP" is pretty narrow minded view.....I think it's strength is dependant on your character. Cloak on another class without the complimentary skills and passives wouldnt be nearly as effective. and lets be frank its an Easy class to play. With all the nerfs that have gone on to play the other classes in PvP actually requires some modicum of skill. But that still doesnt make the class or skill OP imo.

Sav72 · January 2016

Spam, Shields > Reflect> Instant Heals > Cloak