My take on misconception of cloak.

Yaricx · January 2016

Greetings oh ever level-headed community!

Now I am sure we have all seen too many nerf nightblade threads but there is always something that makes me shake my head.

I do play a NB, VR3 mag blade. I see all the hate for cloak spam but at the same time I see the association of that with a stamblade. A stamblade cannot spam cloak. Maybe 3 times. Is the issue people have with cloak the stamblades who pop cloak to escape and Los or mag blades?

As a mag blade, yes I can spam cloak. I am also squishy as hell. Removing cloak would drastically change the way i would have to play. I also don't have magicka det so don't have the nice high melee range burst.

There is always the counter to cloak suggestion of pots and aoe. If you're up against a stamblade who is not using shadow image aoe should work, but against a mag blade I can see how it could be frustrating since can pop cloak at will.

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

You may not agree, and that is fine, but as one of the other kind of nightblade, I wanted to share my thoughts.

Xantaria · January 2016

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

ShadowDisciple · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

you dont have to spam anything lol...i cant use cloack more than 3 times...if im ganked in 1vX i pray to god 3 cloaks is enough to get behind some tree or else im dead...

Bonus Story: i got ganked like that once 1v4 and since i couldnt escape i decided to fight...so i used RALLY + VIGOR + WB SPAM = i won xDDD

Xantaria · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

you dont have to spam anything lol...i cant use cloack more than 3 times...if im ganked in 1vX i pray to god 3 cloaks is enough to get behind some tree or else im dead...

Bonus Story: i got ganked like that once 1v4 and since i couldnt escape i decided to fight...so i used RALLY + VIGOR + WB SPAM = i won xDDD

xDDD

...

You didn't read.

Robotmafia · January 2016

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

willymchilybily · January 2016

welcome to forums...

Where people who haven't played a particular class feel they have insight enough on that class without needing to experience it, to dictate game mechanic changes.

the amount of garbage I hear about sorc shields, and nb cloak from people who clearly by their post haven't even tried the class in pvp, is frustrating & so tiring.

Xantaria · January 2016

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

runagate · January 2016

Revealing flare?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

It has been a long time since i played WoW. But last i did Rogues had a recuperate that used CP. so you could pop that then cloak. And heal in cloak. Often i would be at full health before the enemy could track me down again. It sounds almost exactly like ESO with A NB popping vigor and rally and then cloaking.

Ofcourse like i said it has been a while.

Xantaria · January 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

It has been a long time since i played WoW. But last i did Rogues had a recuperate that used CP. so you could pop that then cloak. And heal in cloak. Often i would be at full health before the enemy could track me down again. It sounds almost exactly like ESO with A NB popping vigor and rally and then cloaking.

Ofcourse like i said it has been a while.

Back in my days they did not have any heal except for bandages (which they couldn't even use in stealth). But also you have to see Cloak had like a 2 min cd. Here you can do it whenever you please.

AltusVenifus · January 2016

This has to be a console issue... I've never said "Learn to play", but this is getting silly... Seriously slot a detect pot... Free ap...

Troneon · January 2016

Any game where stealth / cloak is spammable has no balance and is terrible for the overall game.

This has been the case since the history of gaming.

It should not be spammable, period.

Xantaria · January 2016

AltusVenifus wrote: »

This has to be a console issue... I've never said "Learn to play", but this is getting silly... Seriously slot a detect pot... Free ap...

So you are telling me I should spend hundreds of thousands of gold for every nightblade I meet? (80% of the current pvp population). So Nightblades are forcing you to spend money to beat them whereas every other class doesn't. Seems again very balanced.

Xantaria · January 2016

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

Molag_Crow · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

So on the topic of nerfs, I must agree with the OP for the sake of Magicka NBs, but there needs to be something done to Stamina NBs who can do exactly what Xantaria said.

They do it all the time, it's frustrating and never-ending OH and before people can't say "Oh well Templar's just spam heal themselves" Templar's have no other life-saving defensives left apart from an ultimate and their main heal, like Breath of Life. We can't simply go invisible on demand (exclude unreliable invis pots) and we don't have the greatest CC in the game (Mass Hysteria) plus, Blazing Shield (which absorbed a bit of damage, a lot less than a Sorc's shield, scaled off of our max health ((by what, 15% now in pvp?)) and is absolutely useless. Nobody in their right mind uses it anymore and I have plenty of videos that I haven't uploaded yet, to prove this.

coolermh · January 2016

Yaricx wrote: »

Greetings oh ever level-headed community!

Now I am sure we have all seen too many nerf nightblade threads but there is always something that makes me shake my head.

I do play a NB, VR3 mag blade. I see all the hate for cloak spam but at the same time I see the association of that with a stamblade. A stamblade cannot spam cloak. Maybe 3 times. Is the issue people have with cloak the stamblades who pop cloak to escape and Los or mag blades?

As a mag blade, yes I can spam cloak. I am also squishy as hell. Removing cloak would drastically change the way i would have to play. I also don't have magicka det so don't have the nice high melee range burst.

There is always the counter to cloak suggestion of pots and aoe. If you're up against a stamblade who is not using shadow image aoe should work, but against a mag blade I can see how it could be frustrating since can pop cloak at will.

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

You may not agree, and that is fine, but as one of the other kind of nightblade, I wanted to share my thoughts.

I am stam blade and I still have like 1100 magic recovery so I can def still spam cloack 4-6 times

AltusVenifus · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

This has to be a console issue... I've never said "Learn to play", but this is getting silly... Seriously slot a detect pot... Free ap...

So you are telling me I should spend hundreds of thousands of gold for every nightblade I meet? (80% of the current pvp population). So Nightblades are forcing you to spend money to beat them whereas every other class doesn't. Seems again very balanced.

This is why I can't take these threads seriously, "Spend 100,000 gold on detect pots"... LOL... just stop and think about what you wrote...

Anyway yes generally that is what I am telling you. A general strategy for every build or class is to upgrade your gear, max your CP, utilize food or drink, utilize 4 potions, tripot, immovable+speed or weapon crit for you could be an option, detect + spell damage or weapon crit and weapon or spell power/regen/crit chance. If this is unacceptable to you in order to be competitive, stop PVPing and farm Maelstrom arena...

My suggestion would be to start with 12 of them that you made for free,, detect pots don't need to be VR15, a VR5 or even lower is like .8 sec less total detection time...

Also, my personally suggestion for you would be roll another class and PVP with it, it will give you some perspective, that you are missing. I was the same way with sorc shields, right after 1.6 hit, so i rolled a sorc and PVP'ed with it to PVP rank 14 or so... I still think giving any character and spammable 10-13K extra health button is a bad gameplay design, but no longer think it is the root of all evil. I'm pretty sure if you rolled a nightblade, you would realize cloak is not actually the problem...

It seriously is a L2P issue, I'm sorry but cloak has a lot of counters that are very effective, but IMOthe pot is the most effective IMO, because it allows you to maintain your bars how you like them.

Molag_Crow · January 2016

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

This has to be a console issue... I've never said "Learn to play", but this is getting silly... Seriously slot a detect pot... Free ap...

So you are telling me I should spend hundreds of thousands of gold for every nightblade I meet? (80% of the current pvp population). So Nightblades are forcing you to spend money to beat them whereas every other class doesn't. Seems again very balanced.

This is why I can't take these threads seriously, "Spend 100,000 gold on detect pots"... LOL... just stop and think about what you wrote...

Anyway yes generally that is what I am telling you. A general strategy for every build or class is to upgrade your gear, max your CP, utilize food or drink, utilize 4 potions, tripot, immovable+speed or weapon crit for you could be an option, detect + spell damage or weapon crit and weapon or spell power/regen/crit chance. If this is unacceptable to you in order to be competitive, stop PVPing and farm Maelstrom arena...

My suggestion would be to start with 12 of them that you made for free,, detect pots don't need to be VR15, a VR5 or even lower is like .8 sec less total detection time...

Also, my personally suggestion for you would be roll another class and PVP with it, it will give you some perspective, that you are missing. I was the same way with sorc shields, right after 1.6 hit, so i rolled a sorc and PVP'ed with it to PVP rank 14 or so... I still think giving any character and spammable 10-13K extra health button is a bad gameplay design, but no longer think it is the root of all evil. I'm pretty sure if you rolled a nightblade, you would realize cloak is not actually the problem...

It seriously is a L2P issue, I'm sorry but cloak has a lot of counters that are very effective, but IMOthe pot is the most effective IMO, because it allows you to maintain your bars how you like them.

So you think cloaking for 1-2 secs to fully heal with Rally and Vigor is acceptable? Even if one uses a detect pot just as the NB cloaks to heal, you can start hitting them through stealth and they're already full health and back in business.

Detect pots don't destroy Nightblades.

No one really uses Flare (from support skill line) in a serious build.

Nightblades can move at the quickest speed while cloaking away/LoSing, even further avoiding being AOE'd out of stealth.

All that defines a Nightblade, sure, but why should they be allowed to heal full in a few seconds with no resource strain? their damage output and CC is already the strongest... Hmmmmm.

eliisra · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

So 2k per second from vigor and 500~ per 2 seconds gets your back to full in the 2.9 seconds of cloak cool story.

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

So on the topic of nerfs, I must agree with the OP for the sake of Magicka NBs, but there needs to be something done to Stamina NBs who can do exactly what Xantaria said.

They do it all the time, it's frustrating and never-ending OH and before people can't say "Oh well Templar's just spam heal themselves" Templar's have no other life-saving defensives left apart from an ultimate and their main heal, like Breath of Life. We can't simply go invisible on demand (exclude unreliable invis pots) and we don't have the greatest CC in the game (Mass Hysteria) plus, Blazing Shield (which absorbed a bit of damage, a lot less than a Sorc's shield, scaled off of our max health ((by what, 15% now in pvp?)) and is absolutely useless. Nobody in their right mind uses it anymore and I have plenty of videos that I haven't uploaded yet, to prove this.

Well said, take my cloak and give me a Breath of Life heal or a shield and in two weeks we will be right back here again.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

CrowsDescend wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

This has to be a console issue... I've never said "Learn to play", but this is getting silly... Seriously slot a detect pot... Free ap...

So you are telling me I should spend hundreds of thousands of gold for every nightblade I meet? (80% of the current pvp population). So Nightblades are forcing you to spend money to beat them whereas every other class doesn't. Seems again very balanced.

This is why I can't take these threads seriously, "Spend 100,000 gold on detect pots"... LOL... just stop and think about what you wrote...

Anyway yes generally that is what I am telling you. A general strategy for every build or class is to upgrade your gear, max your CP, utilize food or drink, utilize 4 potions, tripot, immovable+speed or weapon crit for you could be an option, detect + spell damage or weapon crit and weapon or spell power/regen/crit chance. If this is unacceptable to you in order to be competitive, stop PVPing and farm Maelstrom arena...

My suggestion would be to start with 12 of them that you made for free,, detect pots don't need to be VR15, a VR5 or even lower is like .8 sec less total detection time...

Also, my personally suggestion for you would be roll another class and PVP with it, it will give you some perspective, that you are missing. I was the same way with sorc shields, right after 1.6 hit, so i rolled a sorc and PVP'ed with it to PVP rank 14 or so... I still think giving any character and spammable 10-13K extra health button is a bad gameplay design, but no longer think it is the root of all evil. I'm pretty sure if you rolled a nightblade, you would realize cloak is not actually the problem...

It seriously is a L2P issue, I'm sorry but cloak has a lot of counters that are very effective, but IMOthe pot is the most effective IMO, because it allows you to maintain your bars how you like them.

So you think cloaking for 1-2 secs to fully heal with Rally and Vigor is acceptable? Even if one uses a detect pot just as the NB cloaks to heal, you can start hitting them through stealth and they're already full health and back in business.

Detect pots don't destroy Nightblades.

No one really uses Flare (from support skill line) in a serious build.

Nightblades can move at the quickest speed while cloaking away/LoSing, even further avoiding being AOE'd out of stealth.

All that defines a Nightblade, sure, but why should they be allowed to heal full in a few seconds with no resource strain? their damage output and CC is already the strongest... Hmmmmm.

magicka sorc has higher dps....
you are right about mass hysteria, that is a abilty which could be nerfed or maybe remove the purge effect on cloak and give it something like minor brutalaty?
and to the one QQ about the templar, yes most of us agree templars could be buffed but it doesn't mean every other class needs to be nerfed further down to be on par, it's beter to buff the underpreforiming class. if you can't see this then it might be beter just to stop voicing your opinion.

Infinite12 · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

its a rogue class... remove cloak and its just a sorc without shields and bolt escape.... other games have skills where the rogue class presses 1 button and disapears into stealth.. atleast with cloak you have to reapply it and have the resources to keep it up.. its not a perma stealth... and then there is the additional point of stam blades... they cant use it infinetly and also are often in situations where they need to cloak many times to even get close to escaping... yes 1v1 its not that hard but that also goes for bolt escape or shields or other skills which arent fair in 1v1.... i think these peopel just want nb to be easy kills and the cloak makes it a little harder... in the end they are a squishy rogue class.. which can be found in many games so its nothing new... if you take away cloak then u have to gives them somthing else

In Other Games Rogue Classes don't have an ability to heal (or only very limited heals combined with huge CDs or resource costs / other drawbacks)

Here it's everybody is able to do everything, so they CAN heal and this is just making it unbalanced. A rogue class that can just completely reset the fight whenever it pleases is just not balanced.

Example: You know when in World of Warcraft the rogue Cloaks (Only available once in a long time) when he pops back up he will still be at about the same health. Also he can use almost NO abilities while stealthed. Whereas here you can pop Vigor and Rally all day long in Stealth in ESO. It's bad design and I completely understand the rage about it.

It has been a long time since i played WoW. But last i did Rogues had a recuperate that used CP. so you could pop that then cloak. And heal in cloak. Often i would be at full health before the enemy could track me down again. It sounds almost exactly like ESO with A NB popping vigor and rally and then cloaking.

Ofcourse like i said it has been a while.

Back in my days they did not have any heal except for bandages (which they couldn't even use in stealth). But also you have to see Cloak had like a 2 min cd. Here you can do it whenever you please.

As a Stamblade I don't have any class heals. I have to rely on rally and vigor and honestly, with zerging being as predominant as it is in pvp these days cloaking is pretty difficult. Everything seems to pull me out of cloak. If they nerf cloak I don't know what I'll play in pvp. The problem is that everyone wants to be able to kill everyone easily. I saw a post recently about a sorc complaining about a dk permablocking. This after he killed 2 or 3 other people while taking minimal damage thanks to shield stacking. Everyone wants to just stomp everyone they come across with little effort. That's the problem.

Infinite12 · January 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

welcome to forums...

Where people who haven't played a particular class feel they have insight enough on that class without needing to experience it, to dictate game mechanic changes.

the amount of garbage I hear about sorc shields, and nb cloak from people who clearly by their post haven't even tried the class in pvp, is frustrating & so tiring.

I do agree with this, but I've played every class and sorc is the easiest by far. They have very few draw backs. Eve with the bolt escape nerf it was still easy for me to get away and the shield stacking makes you're defense excellent and you have plenty of high damage abilities. Every other class has negatives, nightblades it's health and being squishy, DK's the draw back is.....everything lol, and templars have terrible mobility and no escape. Sorc shields need a nerf. They need to be crit able in my opinion.

Lexxypwns · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

Flare doesn't work against cloak

Autolycus · January 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Yaricx wrote: »

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that if all the hate and crying for nerfs is supposed to be directed at stamblades, I don't think cloak needs to be in that discussion since simply using an aoe will pop them and they don't have the magicka resource to keep reattempting.

They pop Vigor and Rally then Cloak.

WHAT are you supposed to do. You pop AoE and get them out of stealth, GREAT you just used a lot of resources to get them out of stealth but guess what, they are full again because you couldn't keep DPSing them.

THAT is the problem.

Cloak for 1-2 seconds and back to full health.

Nightblades also have the best Regeneration passives and overall the best resource management. They can keep doing this whereas I will run dry. Especially when I have to spam AoE to get them out.

I PvP on a fairly regular basis, though not exclusively. I haven't kept a running tally, but with my best approximation (yes, truly, I am trying to be accurate here) I have failed to beat maybe 5% of NBs who try to cloak away to escape, regardless of stam/mag build. Edit: I don't win against every NB I face, but what I'm saying here is that they rarely get away.

I simply do not understand the difficulties that others face against cloak. Before you start shooting off your rage reply, please consider the idea that I am merely prodding for information, because out of all the times I've faced off against a NB, I have not once considered the need for a nerf to cloak.

My main is a magicka NB, and I don't even use cloak in Cyrodiil. I know what you're thinking: "Whaaaaat well then you must suck." Last night I pvp'd without the use of cloak and my KDR was 71:13 (only a few hours, was just playing casually) and during that time I encountered several NBs who attempted to gank me. I did die once or twice to these NBs, but I found the challenge to be far greater against the magicka sorcs and stam dks I faced. In fact, the very second that a NB showed himself (and I do know who this NB is, and I won't name them out of respect) I immediately used a stealth detect pot (which btw you can stack with stamina/brutality/detect, detect/savagery, magicka/sorcery/spell crit, or immovable/magicka/detect) and hit him with crippling grasp, and he melted. This player happens to be quite good at their build, but in this particular setting I had a better counter.

Anyway, this isn't about whether or not I or this other NB is a good player. What I'm getting at is, why is it so difficult for others to counter one simple skill? The counters have been outlined numerous times on dozens of these threads. I simply don't understand how it is so difficult that it merits the nerf-hammer. Is it because you all refuse to use the methods at your disposal? Are you too good for potions, which are specifically designed to counter this? Is your recovery too low to continually use skills that will force them out of stealth? These reasons are all limitations that the individual playing the character has to overcome. It's not a matter of cloak being unbalanced or unfair, it's a matter of people refusing to accommodate their playstyles and builds in the face of a game mechanic.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

runagate wrote: »

Revealing flare?

That thing is a DoT. You know what Cloak does? It removes DoTs ... Great Counter.

It also prevents cloak and stealth for 8 seconds after the initial hit. The DoTs doesn't matter. But it suffers from travelling times, so not that easy to connect on moving targets like a NB rolling around with 40% movement speeds.

Skill is situational at best, mostly mediocre. Tiny radius and duration, compared to Caltrops. Has the same radius as you're average ground target AoE class skill. Has no decent secondary and third effect. Deals no dmg, since DoT.

As with any support skill, in a medium group or bigger, you can have someone running it. But solo or small scale, you can afford to use a skill slot on something this niche with 0 utility in all other scenarios.

They need to re-design Flare into being a decent ranged AoE, where detect is the secondary effect. Than people could use it in normal builds.

Bombard, Caltrops and Steel Tornado are the best things in the game to mess up cloak. They have one thing in common, guess what?

Flare doesn't stop nb's cloaking ^^ stop them from stealthing, not cloaking.

siddique · January 2016

I have a special kind of hatred for NBs. I hate them all. However, finding a cloaked NB hiding like a sneaky little bastid behind a pillar, using detection pot, and then murdering them is one of the finest pleasures of life.

Ah, the bliss.

Autolycus · January 2016

siddique wrote: »

I have a special kind of hatred for NBs. I hate them all. However, finding a cloaked NB hiding like a sneaky little bastid behind a pillar, using detection pot, and then murdering them is one of the finest pleasures of life.

Ah, the bliss.

You would truly hate me then. I don't stand still, and I don't cloak. Most sorcs I go up against can't even shield stack fast enough to keep up with my damage. I don't need that much CC, although I have plenty of it.

siddique · January 2016

I can feel the hatred rising already. :S :P

Autolycus wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

I have a special kind of hatred for NBs. I hate them all. However, finding a cloaked NB hiding like a sneaky little bastid behind a pillar, using detection pot, and then murdering them is one of the finest pleasures of life.

Ah, the bliss.

You would truly hate me then. I don't stand still, and I don't cloak. Most sorcs I go up against can't even shield stack fast enough to keep up with my damage. I don't need that much CC, although I have plenty of it.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

It is a console issue people sit in town and cry about NB refusing to do anything to learn to counter. Let them whine they already know it all no sense talking to them.

Xjcon · January 2016

Recently started playing a nightblade just to jump on the FOTM class and I must say DAMN.... so much burst on squishy targets.

Caltrops is something I hate more then anything while on my NB. Sure it's expensive to use it but it's imo the best anti NB ability in the game