ZOS, can you listen to people that PvP daily?

Wollust · January 2016

Can't we just all agree on the fact that we all hate the lag and it needs to be gone? Even if means we have to go away from the advertised large scale battle?

FENGRUSH · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Can't we just all agree on the fact that we all hate the lag and it needs to be gone? Even if means we have to go away from the advertised large scale battle?

Pretty much - I think we can. We all have ideas, some make more sense than others from a standpoint of what is possible to implement in a realistic timeframe at ZOS. I actually dont talk out of my ass in this respect, ZOS does not have an easy job. I try to offer the simplest and best technical solutions for gameplay and performance in eso pvp.

Mojmir · January 2016

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

same here, my son is an "expert" on every game he sees now. what is nice, I got a good 2nd opinion whenever I want to get a game or my daughter want to play something.its the way of things it seems

Knootewoot · January 2016

Snowgoons wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

And why should people who play eso for a living represent the whole eso community. I work for a living and get to pvp 2-3 hrs a day, barely having enough time for 1 silver or gold mixed in. I think I'm more in tune with the eso community then those guys.

If you pvp 2-3 hours a day you are definitely not as qualified as someone who "plays eso for a living"

you also said that like you know what you are talking about lol, king richard has a job :P Im pretty sure fengrush, sypher and lefty do as well....

but even if they didn't have a job outside of playing eso, they would still be more qualified to talk about the balance seeing as all of their time would be spent playing eso...

would you want someone who flies planes 2-3 hours a day flying your jet at the airport or the guy that flies them all the time everyday?

The guy who flies 2-3 hours a day of course. The other who flies all the time everyday will crash because he is tired and will die of a stroke because all day sitting on his butt will cause this.

attackjet · January 2016

Whenever I watch these big name streamers, all they do is complain and its just stupid to watch. I like people who actually have a fun time and don't just b**** about s*** the whole time. Cool someone killed you I guess the whole game revolves around you and just because you die because of something the whole game should be rearranged to your and only your liking.

Zos knows what they are doing quit complaining, if these big streamers don't like it they can quit, and good riddance if they do. This game isn't just built off PvP, a HUGE portion of it is pve.

don't let these spoiled little brats get you down @zos, your game is really good

attackjet · January 2016

And I think battlegrounds and arenas (along with dueling of course) should definetly be put in but some of these guys are just annoying. Some are cool don't get me wrong, I've learned a lot from some of these peoples videos, but I'm not trying to watch someone complain for 30 minutes

Jura23 · January 2016

Yeah, I support OP. Listen to all these guys. Except Fengrush, he wants to nerf Templars. Don't listen to that.

RatedChaotic · January 2016

So your asking for ZOS to listen and do what 4 people say is going to make the game better? Not a smart approach. I'd rather they take everything in thats been listed in these forums the good and the bad and make their own decisions. The voices of many is a hell of alot better than just having 4 people saying whats in the best interest of the game.

Why watch other people play games? Play the game yourself and have your own ideas instead of watching others that are mostly just pushing their ideas on you. Be your own person and not someones puppet.

MattT1988 · January 2016

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me. Walk through guides I can sorta understand, but just watching some bloke play in general when I could be using the time to I don't know....play the game myself? Whatever.......kids these days.....

Mojmir · January 2016

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

I did this one time awhile ago, like 5-6yrs ago and I was high AF.

Wollust · January 2016

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

Isn't it kinda the same as watching other people do sports? At least that's how I feel about it.

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

Isn't it kinda the same as watching other people do sports? At least that's how I feel about it.

That's the main comparison really. A lot of people that don't understand why people like to watch other people play games are usually the same people that will watch other people play some form of sport. I was never big into watching other people play games until last year but it can be fun since you can find new games

Zinaroth · January 2016

Snowgoons wrote: »

Is this asking too much? King Richard, Fengrush, sypher, Lefty_Lucy have basically laid out how to fix this games pvp and make it more enjoyable for everyone. Can these items be implemented? You can find them in the We Are ESO broadcast, among other outlets, can you please just listen to them?

Oh you mean the same guys that pretty much all agreed that Templars and in particular Stamplars are doing just fine in one of their first podcasts eventhough none of them play one? Yes let's listen and abide by everything those guys say, they seem to know everything about this game.

Don't get me wrong they're pretty knowledgeable in some areas of the game, I just don't think ZOS should automatically do everything those guys agree on, especially when it comes to the Templar class, because none of the have any experience with it. All they see is Breath of Life spam, get annoyed, and then rant on their stream without wanting to discuss it in detail with their viewers. Fengrush is a main offender here.

But they all stream so their voice always gets through, don't think that is the issue. ZOS knows what their opinion is, they can't avoid hearing it.

Yes I know Sypher has since then leveled a Templar. It has now been VR1 for many months because he plays it half an hour per day, then logs one of the others, mostly the NB or Sorc. Don't blame him, but it is not an argument when it comes to class knowledge.

I think ZOS should focus on reaching out to known dueling and raiding guilds when it comes to class balance. That is how you get the best idea of where classes are in terms of balance. Not by listening to a select four people just because they have the biggest voices.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2016

I have been playing since beta and agree with MOST of what Sypher/Fengrush/Lefty/King say.

They ARE ESO.
They listen to the PvP community.

Although we may all have different ideas on how to balance the classes, we agree on all the major points.

AOE caps need to go - Completely. Not reduced. COMPLETELY REMOVED.
The mini-stun/silence on gap closer needs to go - Completely. No reduced by 10%. COMPLETELY REMOVED.
Bugs and broken abilities need to be fixed in weeks not months.

There are tons of other small things but those are the big ones.

As for the people trying to smear these streamers, I have read their forum posts. Most of them are cries for nerfs based on not understanding how this game functions or being unwilling to adapt to a build/playstyle that would give them more success.

Sorry guys, most of our PvP community stands behind WE ARE ESO. Not all for sure, but most. The ones doing the most mudslinging are people are the REAL vocal minority that I rarely see in pvp, and when they are, they die to basic things then cry for nerfs.

RatedChaotic · January 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

Isn't it kinda the same as watching other people do sports? At least that's how I feel about it.

That's the main comparison really. A lot of people that don't understand why people like to watch other people play games are usually the same people that will watch other people play some form of sport. I was never big into watching other people play games until last year but it can be fun since you can find new games

Somewhat. But people watching sports has no say in who starts on the team or who doesnt. As for streamers they can say this skill is the best in this situation (when its the worst) and the people watching believe it and use it. Thats the difference.

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

RatedChaotic wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

Isn't it kinda the same as watching other people do sports? At least that's how I feel about it.

That's the main comparison really. A lot of people that don't understand why people like to watch other people play games are usually the same people that will watch other people play some form of sport. I was never big into watching other people play games until last year but it can be fun since you can find new games

Somewhat. But people watching sports has no say in who starts on the team or who doesnt. As for streamers they can say this skill is the best in this situation (when its the worst) and the people watching believe it and use it. Thats the difference.

True. And I made a comparison on Twitter a few weeks ago when another topic came up that name-dropped well known streamers. Streamers are a lot like politicians and the viewers, be they followers or subscribers, are buying in to what they have to say without really thinking for themselves.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2016

RatedChaotic wrote: »

So your asking for ZOS to listen and do what 4 people say is going to make the game better? Not a smart approach. I'd rather they take everything in thats been listed in these forums the good and the bad and make their own decisions. The voices of many is a hell of alot better than just having 4 people saying whats in the best interest of the game.

Why watch other people play games? Play the game yourself and have your own ideas instead of watching others that are mostly just pushing their ideas on you. Be your own person and not someones puppet.

Its not four people. We are ESO on twitch was getting thousands of views. Fengrush and crew finally got a soapbox and said what we were all thinking. Anyone who has played in a serious guild and PvPed has run into the problems they talk about most.

I don't agree with them 100% but I sure as hell will support them against the terrible ad hominem and character smears that are going on in this thread.

I swear some people like the changes to pvp and are afraid if PvP was more about skill and less about CP, spamming heals, and balling up, you might actually have to use skill.

MattT1988 · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

My friend's nephew loves streamers. He watches them play games for hours, but he never plays any of the games himself. I don't get it, but apparently it is a thing now to only watch others play.

Maybe we're getting old, but I'll never understand the appeal of watching someone else play a game on YouTube, and these people actually get PAID for this?! Bugger me.

Isn't it kinda the same as watching other people do sports? At least that's how I feel about it.

I can understand your argument, it's a good one, my statement was more directed to people who watch these small streamers on YouTube, not the big League of Legend tournos and whatnot. I can kinda see the appeal of the big money and glitz and lights side of things, I can see how that can appeal to teenagers, although it doesn't appeal to me personally.

If I used your comparison watching the YouTube streamers would be the equivalent of going down to the park and watching a bunch of hacks kick a ball around. I mean why would I when I can take my own ball and boot it around?

Tors · January 2016

The primary issue with PvP is Lag or more specifically, performance.

Its not lag, the connection between us and the servers is pretty dam good, 20 ms in my case (from the ingame meter, not a trace route)

Something is not good enough with either the code or the resources put into the servers.

The people mentioned by the OP are not ESO, not even close. Their playstyle is not the same as the vast majority of the players.

But that does not mean they should not have a voice, just thier voice seems to be given too high a value because they have a forum in which to shout.

Some of those ideas fall into the "improove this so that my specific current favourite character is improoved" catagory. This isnt going to help anyone.

cazlonb16_ESO · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Can't we just all agree on the fact that we all hate the lag and it needs to be gone? Even if means we have to go away from the advertised large scale battle?

No, we can't. If I want small scale or 1vs1 I'll go play a game made for these kind of fights. Large scale battles are the entire point and the only appeal of the PvP in ESO.

Wollust · January 2016

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Can't we just all agree on the fact that we all hate the lag and it needs to be gone? Even if means we have to go away from the advertised large scale battle?

No, we can't. If I want small scale or 1vs1 I'll go play a game made for these kind of fights. Large scale battles are the entire point and the only appeal of the PvP in ESO.

So you prefer the lag? Because the game can definitely not handle the large scale battles. That's the sad truth. I'd love to have epic 200vs200 battles around a keep. It doesn't work. The game crashes, lags, doesn't work.

TayDibiase · January 2016

Zos already knows whats up. Pvpers are a whiny bunch. No matter what changes they make, no matter how good they are. You know what? There are going to be large pockets of pvpers that are gonna complain. Not to mention most dont care if the changes they make ruin pve builds even. God you guys make me laugh.

Cherryblossom · January 2016

OK

Fact - PVP is Laggy
Fact - Zergs is not really a fun way of playing. (although rewarding!)
Fact - AOE Spam is not skill.

Streamers don't speak for everyone, correct. However they are the spokesperson for their own community of followers.

But at the end of the day, anyone being constructive on here is after one thing, a better experience in game within PVP.

BRogueNZ · January 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

OK

Fact - PVP is Laggy
Fact - Zergs is not really a fun way of playing. (although rewarding!)
Fact - AOE Spam is not skill.

Streamers don't speak for everyone, correct. However they are the spokesperson for their own community of followers.

But at the end of the day, anyone being constructive on here is after one thing, a better experience in game within PVP.

Agree with your Facts.

I also agree with a lot of what the streamers have to say. It comes down to delivery and some people can do it with sounding like the ultimate troll.

Vslatimoreb14_ESO · January 2016

Selique wrote: »

I hate streamers.

Agreed.

sirrmattus · January 2016

@FENGRUSH

Do you use wb because its bugged or because its your only source of a strong hit? Myself, I decline to use the skill, I go s&b for the challenge.

I watched the video you posted yesterday afternoon in this thread, and noticed how often you hit people through stairs and around corners with your wb. Once saw you crit rush a guy in mid air.

Id like to know is this intentional exploit or is it just all you have? Not cool

Erock25 · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm...... No and again no.

It's people like "them" who ZOS should never listen too at all.

@Forestd16b14_ESO Are you still PVPing in first person? While I agree with your sentiment that ZOS should not listen exclusively to people like "them", I sure as hell hope that ZOS doesn't listen to people like "you" either. You've made countless class balancing posts and they all should be discounted because you intentionally gimp yourself with first person view.

sirrmattus · January 2016

Erock25 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Hmm...... No and again no.

It's people like "them" who ZOS should never listen too at all.

@Forestd16b14_ESO Are you still PVPing in first person? While I agree with your sentiment that ZOS should not listen exclusively to people like "them", I sure as hell hope that ZOS doesn't listen to people like "you" either. You've made countless class balancing posts and they all should be discounted because you intentionally gimp yourself with first person view.

First person view is personal challenge to me. Just like using s&b in pvp. It's more challenging. If your decent and want to be a button pusher, then run wb spam. If you want a strong challenge in pvp get away from the 1 button face roll

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

medieval_TOG wrote: »

I once got a program to display "hello world" on a computer screen, how hard can it be to create a MMORPG?

So why isn't PvP fixed?

Logic, it eludes some people.

Perhaps...But I think the difference is this is ZOS' game. They wrote the engine, it's their code. Why would they create something like an MMO that they cannot easily troubleshoot? They literally have no idea what is causing the lag. Everytime they speculate as to what it might be, it turns out to be untrue. I guess I should give them credit for trying but c'mon a year of beta and then nearly two years later and it's just as bad as it's ever been.

Did they really intend on 20-40 people to occupy a space of 5 square feet and move in a tight ball? That's not even logical, not just from a military perspective, but just from sheer physics. And within this group you have people shooting fire and other projectiles, which only hurts enemies for some reason, and if anyone hits that group it can only hit up to 6 of them because ZOS.

We can probably think of several ways to penalize large groups that do this, but for some reason ZOS is either unable or unwilling to do it. Magicka detonation is pretty useful but it's at the end of the line so many people give up before they even unlock. We need more spells like that. Spells that do more damage the more people that are hit by it.

sirrmattus · January 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

medieval_TOG wrote: »

I once got a program to display "hello world" on a computer screen, how hard can it be to create a MMORPG?

So why isn't PvP fixed?

Logic, it eludes some people.

Perhaps...But I think the difference is this is ZOS' game. They wrote the engine, it's their code. Why would they create something like an MMO that they cannot easily troubleshoot? They literally have no idea what is causing the lag. Everytime they speculate as to what it might be, it turns out to be untrue. I guess I should give them credit for trying but c'mon a year of beta and then nearly two years later and it's just as bad as it's ever been.

Did they really intend on 20-40 people to occupy a space of 5 square feet and move in a tight ball? That's not even logical, not just from a military perspective, but just from sheer physics. And within this group you have people shooting fire and other projectiles, which only hurts enemies for some reason, and if anyone hits that group it can only hit up to 6 of them because ZOS.

We can probably think of several ways to penalize large groups that do this, but for some reason ZOS is either unable or unwilling to do it. Magicka detonation is pretty useful but it's at the end of the line so many people give up before they even unlock. We need more spells like that. Spells that do more damage the more people that are hit by it.

GROUP CAPS WILL FIX THIS!! CAP THEM AT 8!!

you cant STACK ON CROWN, if you cant see the crown