Champion Point Cap and What the 51 Point Increase Actually Means

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Based on my understanding of the latest ESO Live, champion point cap will remain at 501 until Dark Brotherhood. The rationale being ZOS would like more players to get closer to the cap before they increase.

Most people I know on console are within striking distance of the cap, and will probably be at the cap when thieves guild is released. I also have other friends who are no where near the cap (120 cp range) and I am somewhere in the middle. ESO can be experienced in a lot of different ways and there are a number of different objectives one can have for their playing experience. What I have observed is that there is a fundamental difference in play style, between those with high cp and those without. I do not personally know a PC transfer on console so this is in regard to console only players:

Those with high CP tend to do higher xp activity and earn more xp per hour (IC farming, vet dungeon farming, vMA, successful small man / competitive PVP)

Those with low CP tend to do lower xp activities: (gold/silver, craglorn farming, achievement completion, large group IC farming)

The two groups are not mutually exclusive. Obviously people with low CP engage in some higher xp activities but just not consistently over their playing experience.

I think the CP cap is a good idea, but the limited increase of 51 CP is indicative of what ZOS feels is appropriate to allow people who do lower xp activity to keep pace ( I am purposefully staying away from terms like casual and care bare etc. they have no place here). However, I was a bit frustrated when a guild mate told me he was going to take a break because with the 40 CP he will get from VR removal, he was going to be at the cap and wanted to leave room to progress when DB DLC hits. I cant blame him at all, don't blame the cap, but it still feels bad losing a dungeon running mate until DB, especially because I think that trying to even out fundamental differences in ESO consumption across payers is doomed to fail. The progression for those at the top will stagnate, and the ones at the bottom still wont catch up. Thoughts?

Artjuh90 · January 2016

there is NOTHING wrong at having a cap. good example is WoW did you hear people complaining about the level cap?
no, you had other things to do. it's a good thing there is a cap just look at before the cap, people grinding their asses of and the power gaps getting bigger and bigger. do think 51 is a strange number though it would make more sense to hit 600 at next update (i mean DB) or maybe at the one after and then increase with 60 each time but that could be just me. 51 is just a odd number.
i never gamble on odd :P

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

However, I was a bit frustrated when a guild mate told me he was going to take a break because with the 40 CP he will get from VR removal, he was going to be at the cap and wanted to leave room to progress when DB DLC hits. I cant blame him at all, don't blame the cap, but it still feels bad losing a dungeon running mate until DB, especially because I think that trying to even out fundamental differences in ESO consumption across payers is doomed to fail. The progression for those at the top will stagnate, and the ones at the bottom still wont catch up. Thoughts?

Maybe he is just taking a break because he needs one and this is a good time for it? He still gains CP once he hits the cap, so it's not like you are losing any progress(CP) going beyond the cap. So it makes no sense taking a break just for that reason.

Lightninvash · January 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

there is NOTHING wrong at having a cap. good example is WoW did you hear people complaining about the level cap?
no, you had other things to do. it's a good thing there is a cap just look at before the cap, people grinding their asses of and the power gaps getting bigger and bigger. do think 51 is a strange number though it would make more sense to hit 600 at next update (i mean DB) or maybe at the one after and then increase with 60 each time but that could be just me. 51 is just a odd number.
i never gamble on odd :P

agreed 51 is an odd number but it is divisible by 3 so it works in that aspect but when you divide that by how many cps you can attain in the end I don't see it working out to keep going at that rate

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Note: my positing does not account for those who do high xp activities but just cant play very often, so there is another consideration not included in my statement, but would consider those people in the low xp group for the sake of discussion.

Minsc · January 2016

It means that they ''kill'' another design concept since as it is obvious during the last 2 years they lack an overall vision for the game and they just add/remove features based on forum reaction

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2016

You get about 1 cp an hour when questing in cadwells gold while enlightend and close to the cp cap. So increasing the cap by 51 for 90 days, it means everyone who does at least 30-40 min of questing each day (or other stuff that grants more xp) will always reach the cap, before it gets increased.
In my opinion this means the cap increase is way to low if cp are the only character progression we get.

Jura23 · January 2016

51 CP doesn't even cover the enlightenment over 90 days. How does that make any sense I have no idea.

Takllin · January 2016

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

Robbmrp · January 2016

Once the 0 CP Campaigns are released CP won't mean squat to me. I will be spending my time in those campaigns as I don't need to feel like a god in a game. I'm not saying that anyone posting here does either. I am looking for actual competition, not a one shot to someones character who doesn't have the exact same gear/CP as me. I would rather have a drawn out fight that requires tactics than for it to be over in 2 seconds.

I believe that they will need to open up more 0 CP Campaigns as they are going to fill up pretty quickly.

Those players who feel they need to min/max every teeny tiny CP point to get as powerful as they can, can keep those Campaigns.

Existing Non Vet Campaigns shouldn't have EVER had CP usage in the first place IMO. You can't earn CP on a Non Vet Character. Why should you be able to use those CP's in the Non Vet Campaign to have an advantage over another player. Your skill should be good enough....

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

CP was a terrible system and never should have been implemented in the first place. It has so much more influence over a character than gear at higher levels. I tested on the PTS when 3600 was unlocked and it was just ridiculous. People just lining up and spamming their hardest hitting ability while tanking damage. No one ran out of resources, it was just face tank and unload DPS till you could finally burst someone. We warned ZOS then but they don't use the PTS to actually listen.

The cap should be zero and people should be asking for more CONTENT, not stupid carrots to chase that break the game and cause people to think that certain abilities are overpowered when the real problem is there are no more limits, no more resource management.

Inb4 "mah Progressions."

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

I think you're coming from a position of assuming ZOS' plans will make CP's be what VRs did for game progression.....

CP's offer each account progress and benefits that in the initial 40 - 60 CP's feels awesome but once a player gets well into 250+ CP's the diminishing returns have less of an impact.

Also, don't confuse the CP's earned vs. the CP's used

Some of my characters have all CP's designated while others, as by choice, decided to not spend any or less than 50.
The dangers of looking at CP's as end game progression are what many others are doing but if ZOS goes this direction, it doesn't work like lets say a WoW or EverQuest level cap.

When something offers account progression the developers SHOULD focus more on content and less on difficulty, so I believe the concerns about raising or keeping a CP cap tend to be more of worry and less of consequence.

Unless ZOS' raises the percentage of increase for each CP used, I don't foresee any issues with the 51 point progression.

Lafer · January 2016

Those on console that been playing for more then 3-6 month regularly are either over 501 champions or almost there.
The probleme is that people with 501 champion points are the player that would or will probably stay if there is some good end game content/progression feeling.CP are one of the endgame content that keep the progression feeling.

The people that have very little number of CP after a long periode of play time are usualy the first player to go.Either they are just not into that game or they don't have the extra time to spend on a mmo like this also they probably won't be the people that bring the most money of for the compagnie since they probably won't spend on a game that they don't play that much.

The worst is for those pc player that have been playing for more then a year and its probably one of the reason why there is less people on pc then people on console, probably because they lost a chunk of their hardcore player since after the cp cap/ lack of relevant endgame content.

The Cp cap was made in order to balance cyrodile and i totaly understand that.
One of the solution in order to remove the cap or give a higher amount of point for exemple an extra 501 per year for exemple would be to change all the current campaign and make them with some CP bracket for exemple azura star from 1 to 300 cp.
Chill rend from 300 - 600 and some of them could be without cp point also just like the non champion campaigns that we already have.

In the case where they add 501 cp point per year for exemple that would give zeni max 5 year in order to hit that hard cap and creat a new type of progression.

If the game survive 5 year either they could creat an elder scroll online 2 or just add some new type of branch in the champion points system or something similar that would be very easy to manage.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

I think the cap is awesome. It illustrates the lack of things to do in ESO minus leveling/grinding CP. I'm hoping that this will bring us new content /activities in the future as ZOS fill the grind void with possible(here's to hoping) something fun.

eliisra · January 2016

Jura23 wrote: »

51 CP doesn't even cover the enlightenment over 90 days. How does that make any sense I have no idea.

Makes loads of sense if you're not playing the game. Loads of people not playing the game, but still think they're entitled to keep up progression wise, when they log in once a month to say "hello guild".

New CP cap, there to make sure even inactives can keep up. Yeah, it's a joke.

I dont think it's completely related to inactives or new players tho. More a case of lazymode ZOS. If the cap goes up to rapidly, they face more balancing issues and potentially over tuned builds. They would also need to buff the catch up system all over again.

By doing it insanely slow or not at all(lets wait summer 2016 lol), they dont have to worry about CP related issues and extra workload for a long time.

Lafer · January 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

CP was a terrible system and never should have been implemented in the first place. It has so much more influence over a character than gear at higher levels. I tested on the PTS when 3600 was unlocked and it was just ridiculous. People just lining up and spamming their hardest hitting ability while tanking damage. No one ran out of resources, it was just face tank and unload DPS till you could finally burst someone. We warned ZOS then but they don't use the PTS to actually listen.

The cap should be zero and people should be asking for more CONTENT, not stupid carrots to chase that break the game and cause people to think that certain abilities are overpowered when the real problem is there are no more limits, no more resource management.

Inb4 "mah Progressions."

By the time we get to the 3600 cap they can add plenty of stuff to balance more branches to make variation into builds.I played wow and on every expention you would deal 2x the damage or even more then what you used to deal preexpention same think with healing stats and ect by the time we get to the hard cap the game will have plenty of time to find solution or new way to spend your cp point in order to balance the thing.

Muizer · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

It makes sense to put the cap beyond what can be reached during the expected lifespan of the game, so people can keep progressing. There are good arguments why 51 is low, but not being able to reach the 3600 cap any time soon isn't one of them.

coolermh · January 2016

They should just make cap go up 1 cp a day. If you cant earn a cp a day (on avearge) with enlightment... I mean thats like playing less then 4 hours a week to get the cap or something like that.

Jura23 · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

51 CP doesn't even cover the enlightenment over 90 days. How does that make any sense I have no idea.

Makes loads of sense if you're not playing the game. Loads of people not playing the game, but still think they're entitled to keep up progression wise, when they log in once a month to say "hello guild".

New CP cap, there to make sure even inactives can keep up. Yeah, it's a joke.

I dont think it's completely related to inactives or new players tho. More a case of lazymode ZOS. If the cap goes up to rapidly, they face more balancing issues and potentially over tuned builds. They would also need to buff the catch up system all over again.

By doing it insanely slow or not at all(lets wait summer 2016 lol), they dont have to worry about CP related issues and extra workload for a long time.

best customer - buys costumes and plays as little as possible.

Lightninvash · January 2016

Muizer wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

It makes sense to put the cap beyond what can be reached during the expected lifespan of the game, so people can keep progressing. There are good arguments why 51 is low, but not being able to reach the 3600 cap any time soon isn't one of them.

it would take an additional 60 and some change so call it 60-61 more dlcs to get max cp raising it 51 per dlc haha

Celas_Dranacea · January 2016

I am at 460 cp and my daily gameplay priorities have been and continue to be these until I hit the cap:

1. grind IC sewers
2. do the vet pledge and don't get shoulders I want for the 200th time
3. Join a guild pvp group, solo pvp or derp around helping lowbie friends to enjoy myself - but not for too long since I should be grinding cp

I'm not usually very militant with opinions but this one I am - 50 cp per DLC is the appropriate rate. I am so excited to be free of the treadmill I've been on and I have a hunch that I'm in the upper 75th percentile when it comes to the average time spent playing.

The folks who are super bored that they have outpaced progression - totally understand guys, valid point but any increase more than 50 cp per quarter would simply not work for the majority of the player base.

Can't wait to spend all my time pvping, finishing up achievements, leveling alts without worrying about the rate I earn cp.

So glad they are skipping one dlc to give folks further behind a chance to catch up.

Celas_Dranacea · January 2016

Lightninvash wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

It makes sense to put the cap beyond what can be reached during the expected lifespan of the game, so people can keep progressing. There are good arguments why 51 is low, but not being able to reach the 3600 cap any time soon isn't one of them.

it would take an additional 60 and some change so call it 60-61 more dlcs to get max cp raising it 51 per dlc haha

60 quarterly dlcs / 4 per year = 15 years of content and progression. I would be extremely happy with that.

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I am at 460 cp and my daily gameplay priorities have been and continue to be these until I hit the cap:

1. grind IC sewers
2. do the vet pledge and don't get shoulders I want for the 200th time
3. Join a guild pvp group, solo pvp or derp around helping lowbie friends to enjoy myself - but not for too long since I should be grinding cp

I'm not usually very militant with opinions but this one I am - 50 cp per DLC is the appropriate rate. I am so excited to be free of the treadmill I've been on and I have a hunch that I'm in the upper 75th percentile when it comes to the average time spent playing.

The folks who are super bored that they have outpaced progression - totally understand guys, valid point but any increase more than 50 cp per quarter would simply not work for the majority of the player base.

Can't wait to spend all my time pvping, finishing up achievements, leveling alts without worrying about the rate I earn cp.

So glad they are skipping one dlc to give folks further behind a chance to catch up.

@Celas_Dranacea Why do you worry about the rate you earn CP or feel the need to cap out? Cant you spend your time doing pvp and grinding alts now? Especially if you are already confident you are in the 75th percentile in terms of playing time

I think a lot of players go into their daily activities with much the same game plan, the only difference being not doing it for the sake of CP, but because that is what they like to do. I think think that someone should be penalized for doing high xp activities just because there are people that either feel compelled to not be left behind or do not want to do the work in the first place.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

Once the 0 CP Campaigns are released CP won't mean squat to me. I will be spending my time in those campaigns as I don't need to feel like a god in a game. I'm not saying that anyone posting here does either. I am looking for actual competition, not a one shot to someones character who doesn't have the exact same gear/CP as me. I would rather have a drawn out fight that requires tactics than for it to be over in 2 seconds.

I believe that they will need to open up more 0 CP Campaigns as they are going to fill up pretty quickly.

Those players who feel they need to min/max every teeny tiny CP point to get as powerful as they can, can keep those Campaigns.

Existing Non Vet Campaigns shouldn't have EVER had CP usage in the first place IMO. You can't earn CP on a Non Vet Character. Why should you be able to use those CP's in the Non Vet Campaign to have an advantage over another player. Your skill should be good enough....

i think the 0 cp campaigns will be more crowded then the 501 cp campaign. people not at at will think *** it don't wanna deal with people with higher stats then i can achieve with same build. the 501 will deminish with people in it so will leave it and go to the 0-cp campaign and we will PvP like intended

Lightninvash · January 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

It makes sense to put the cap beyond what can be reached during the expected lifespan of the game, so people can keep progressing. There are good arguments why 51 is low, but not being able to reach the 3600 cap any time soon isn't one of them.

it would take an additional 60 and some change so call it 60-61 more dlcs to get max cp raising it 51 per dlc haha

60 quarterly dlcs / 4 per year = 15 years of content and progression. I would be extremely happy with that.

I wouldn't mind it just throwing it out there it would be that many I like to pvp and you don't earn much cp in pvp so that's ok with me haha

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

Lightninvash wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

there is NOTHING wrong at having a cap. good example is WoW did you hear people complaining about the level cap?
no, you had other things to do. it's a good thing there is a cap just look at before the cap, people grinding their asses of and the power gaps getting bigger and bigger. do think 51 is a strange number though it would make more sense to hit 600 at next update (i mean DB) or maybe at the one after and then increase with 60 each time but that could be just me. 51 is just a odd number.
i never gamble on odd :P

agreed 51 is an odd number but it is divisible by 3 so it works in that aspect but when you divide that by how many cps you can attain in the end I don't see it working out to keep going at that rate

Maybe I was misunderstanding Matt on ESO Live. But I got the impression that they dont plan for 51 CP Increase to be the set number for every DLC. I got the impression that they'd like to make it larger in the future but at the time of ESO Live the numbers had reflected that many active players still havent gotten close to the Cap to warrant a larger increase. Im quite certain he said they were still hoping to find a sweet spot for CP Increases per DLC.

Acrolas · January 2016

The problem is they're trying to please everyone.
Reality alert: YOU CAN'T.

But they're not even considering the option that would actually please everyone.
PVP-optional Cyrodiil campaign where you have a 120 CP cap, IC is open to exploration but without trophies or TV, and there are world boss events at each keep like the *** trailer suggests. If you die in PVP, you lose 1% of your earned AP from this campaign only. 70% of regular AP gain for kills.

That way you're either enjoying the decent amount of content on the maps, or playing against people with small advantages and with a minimal penalty attached. And this is the campaign ZOS would live test Cyrodiil performance on, so at the worst you'll just run back to your home keep, unflag yourself from PVP, and let the grievers grief each other while you wait for another fix.

I'd rather have that instead of the cluster *** and no fixes we have currently.

So long as a high level and low level can group together, I don't really see the point in severely limiting PVE CP if they aren't going to amend the rules and say you can only group within five levels of your current level, battle leveling be ***. But nope, gotta try to please everybody.

Sometimes I wish ZOS would ignore the comment sections and just think for once. But no, let's have The Elder Scrolls Online As Interpreted By A Half-Awake And Oversensitive Ben Carson.

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Lightninvash wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

It also means it will take 15 years to hit the 3600 CP cap, if they raise it by 51 each DLC. I think that statement speaks for itself.

It makes sense to put the cap beyond what can be reached during the expected lifespan of the game, so people can keep progressing. There are good arguments why 51 is low, but not being able to reach the 3600 cap any time soon isn't one of them.

it would take an additional 60 and some change so call it 60-61 more dlcs to get max cp raising it 51 per dlc haha

60 quarterly dlcs / 4 per year = 15 years of content and progression. I would be extremely happy with that.

I wouldn't mind it just throwing it out there it would be that many I like to pvp and you don't earn much cp in pvp so that's ok with me haha

I would like to point out that "successful small man / pvp" was included in the high xp category because PVP does offer good xp you just have to kill a lot of people very consistently. I know a EP night blade on PS4 NA that has 400 cp and almost exclusively PVP's save for the occasional vet dungeon. No grinding required.

QuebraRegra · January 2016

I don't care if CP is unlimited, as long as there are plenty of NON-CP campaigns.

Celas_Dranacea · January 2016

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I am at 460 cp and my daily gameplay priorities have been and continue to be these until I hit the cap:

1. grind IC sewers
2. do the vet pledge and don't get shoulders I want for the 200th time
3. Join a guild pvp group, solo pvp or derp around helping lowbie friends to enjoy myself - but not for too long since I should be grinding cp

I'm not usually very militant with opinions but this one I am - 50 cp per DLC is the appropriate rate. I am so excited to be free of the treadmill I've been on and I have a hunch that I'm in the upper 75th percentile when it comes to the average time spent playing.

The folks who are super bored that they have outpaced progression - totally understand guys, valid point but any increase more than 50 cp per quarter would simply not work for the majority of the player base.

Can't wait to spend all my time pvping, finishing up achievements, leveling alts without worrying about the rate I earn cp.

So glad they are skipping one dlc to give folks further behind a chance to catch up.

@Celas_Dranacea Why do you worry about the rate you earn CP or feel the need to cap out? Cant you spend your time doing pvp and grinding alts now? Especially if you are already confident you are in the 75th percentile in terms of playing time

I think a lot of players go into their daily activities with much the same game plan, the only difference being not doing it for the sake of CP, but because that is what they like to do. I think think that someone should be penalized for doing high xp activities just because there are people that either feel compelled to not be left behind or do not want to do the work in the first place.

I should have said this explicitly - I am a semi-hardcore competitive pvper - I grind because I want to take the field at my best, and be defeated by players more skilled than me, not because they have better gear or higher cp. This game requires that I grind in order to ensure I get to pvp how I want - competitively.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

The problem is they're trying to please everyone.
Reality alert: YOU CAN'T.

But they're not even considering the option that would actually please everyone.
PVP-optional Cyrodiil campaign where you have a 120 CP cap, IC is open to exploration but without trophies or TV, and there are world boss events at each keep like the *** trailer suggests. If you die in PVP, you lose 1% of your earned AP from this campaign only. 70% of regular AP gain for kills.

That way you're either enjoying the decent amount of content on the maps, or playing against people with small advantages and with a minimal penalty attached. And this is the campaign ZOS would live test Cyrodiil performance on, so at the worst you'll just run back to your home keep, unflag yourself from PVP, and let the grievers grief each other while you wait for another fix.

I'd rather have that instead of the cluster *** and no fixes we have currently.

So long as a high level and low level can group together, I don't really see the point in severely limiting PVE CP if they aren't going to amend the rules and say you can only group within five levels of your current level, battle leveling be ***. But nope, gotta try to please everybody.

Sometimes I wish ZOS would ignore the comment sections and just think for once. But no, let's have The Elder Scrolls Online As Interpreted By A Half-Awake And Oversensitive Ben Carson.

Its not that simple....either you have PvE in PvP or its completely removed.
You also either have all CP's or none at all.

While I think you're on the right track, what you write isn't the solution.

-What we know is there are a lot of PvE only players who dabble in PvP for PvE content, there are a lot of PvP + PvE players and seemingly also a lot of PvP only players.

The simple concept is to change the campaigns.
-PvP only (short reset times)
-PvP only without CP's (Short reset times)
-PvE + PvP with and without CP's (as it is today)

-PvE only which shouldn't be a campaign but just a faction based area like Craglorn.

to me...that seems obvious over the years.