Sorc healers: why?

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Careful with this topic.

You'll have every neckbeard Sorcerer healer on here tell you that YOUR the problem.

And they will probably be right.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Careful with this topic.

You'll have every neckbeard Sorcerer healer on here tell you that YOUR the problem.

And they will probably be right.

The issue is relevancy. In plenty scenarios, Sorc healers are fine. In some, they are not. Like wise, for good groups, a Sorc healer is fine. For a group that lacks survive-ability, doesn't have self heals/shields, or is new to mechanics, then a Sorc healer is going to struggle.

For every time that you say it is the DPS and Tanks fault they die, they could counter with the fact a Sorc's heals just are not sufficient; for some groups, this is true. However, a good group that knows dungeon mechanics, and each member has survive-ability, then the healer is just there for top-up healing...and frankly, any magicka toon with a resto staff could likely heal that group.

Furthermore, some dungeons are more resto staff healing friendly than others. Most vet dungeons are a cake walk and barely require healing. However, some of the more difficult ones a resto staff healer, especially one with Restoring Barrier, will have no problem healing thru. Even a (classically) more difficult dungeon such as Darkshade will be an easy heal for resto because players can stack within Healing Springs. However, if members of a group don't have self heals, a dungeon such as Crypt of Hearts, Narieneth will be more difficult for a resto healer because the groups gets spread out in a big room and Healing Springs wont HoT all members and Mutagen is a joke.

Simply, some healers are better than others and can make resto healing work (and still put out DPS) and others will fail miserably. Likewise, some groups are better than others and demand less of their healers. No need for finger pointing here. It is a combination of elements that equates to success or failure.

Septimus_Magna · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

I ask thus because of a recent dungeons I crashed an burned on with a Sorc "healer" who only used Repid Regen, Healing Ward and Healing Springs, which on Vet Banished Cells isn't really enough for the last boss unless they're paying a lot of attention to the health of their teammates.

It made me wonder what Sorcs have going for them to make them a healer? Templars are the normal healers, NB's have siphoning, and DK's have Igneous, wheras Sorc's just seem to have the Resto Staff heals.

I'm not saying that Sorcs can't heal btw, just wondering why people make them?

Really? Ive healed vBC plenty times with just those healing spells while dealing at least 10k dps. The reason that I heal sometimes is because I dont want to waste my time, you find a group really quickly if you can dd and heal.

Sorcs often have high spell dmg, max magicka and magicka regen. Besides that there nothing to boost healing from the sorcs skill lines, assuming sorcs pick Hardened Ward ofc. Negate can be useful in some situations but its definitely not mandatory in most cases.

Ive found the 23-25k Hardened Ward pretty useful when you're healing because you're basically immortal and only have to focus on keeping your allies alive. You could even add Harness Magicka to get 40-44k shield against spells.

Most vet dungeons are easy to heal as sorcs (or any magicka build for that matter) Rapid Regen + Illusturious Healing is more than enough to keep players alive. If the players have decent skill and avoid the red etc I hardly need to use Healing Ward.

Currently I only have around 7 CPs into Blessed to increase my healing done. Gear is 5x Kagrenacs, 1x Molag Kena, 2x Torugs Pact and 3x WIllpower with Thief Mundus.

Dymence · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

I ask thus because of a recent dungeons I crashed an burned on with a Sorc "healer" who only used Repid Regen, Healing Ward and Healing Springs, which on Vet Banished Cells isn't really enough for the last boss unless they're paying a lot of attention to the health of their teammates.

Isn't really enough for Veteran Banished Cells? It's even already too much. You can cut healing springs out of there and it will go just fine. Hell, you can even heal vet WGT / ICP just with that.

Spottswoode · January 2016

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Stranglehands wrote: »

What ults would you run? Negate magic is really scraping the bottom of the barrel

Barrier from the pvp skill line is an awesome panic button for not templars

This and Energy Overload. In that order. I've mentioned this a multitude of times, but I like to run Redistribution set with all of my non-templars.
Heals I primarily use: Mutagen, Blessing of Restoration, Shield Ally, Energy Orb.
Overflowing Altar can be useful with bosses that have a lot of stationary attacks.
Twilight Matriarch can be useful when combined with Redistribution and Shield stacking.

Quick Siphon is gimmicky, but it certainly has its uses.
Grand Healing and its morphs aren't something I would use in PVE dedicated healing.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

I have a VR1 alt Sorc that heals....not sure why this would pose a problem
You play to the abilities of your group, not to how you want to play so it seems some personal adjustments are beneficial but otherwise, rejuvenate staff works well unless they aren't using the skills or if they aren't leveled up

eliisra · January 2016

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Careful with this topic.

You'll have every neckbeard Sorcerer healer on here tell you that YOUR the problem.

If you need more than Healing Springs, Regeneration and Healing Wards just to stay alive, you or the entire group is the problem. Not necessarily the sorc healer.

But I totally get OP's question. I dont understand why people make sorc's to heal either. If healing/support is the big interest, why not make templar or NB with actual cool class skills for it? Even DK's have more in that department.

I get that sorc heals, because group cant find a healer. It's the creation of a main healing sorc I dont get. You have no support- or healing skills of your own worth slotting. Basically just a walking restoration stick with a little above average spell power, sounds awfully boring in the long run.

Anyway, about time ZOS gives sorcerers more heal- and support utility in groups.

DRXHarbinger · January 2016

Lol at having a sorc healer for prison.

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Careful with this topic.

You'll have every neckbeard Sorcerer healer on here tell you that YOUR the problem.

If you need more than Healing Springs, Regeneration and Healing Wards just to stay alive, you or the entire group is the problem. Not necessarily the sorc healer.

But I totally get OP's question. I dont understand why people make sorc's to heal either. If healing/support is the big interest, why not make templar or NB with actual cool class skills for it? Even DK's have more in that department.

I get that sorc heals, because group cant find a healer. It's the creation of a main healing sorc I dont get. You have no support- or healing skills of your own worth slotting. Basically just a walking restoration stick with a little above average spell power, sounds awfully boring in the long run.

Anyway, about time ZOS gives sorcerers more heal- and support utility in groups.

I didn't make my sorc to heal specifically but I really enjoy healing with the sorc and will. I offer a lot of support as well. There is this thing called a weapon swap, where you can go to destroy staff and have incredibly high DPS to offer the group. Also, I am nearly indestructible in PvE, and have endless mana. So the sorc actually offers A LOT of group utility and is fantastic for running Vet dungeons quickly when you mostly want DPS and need a touch of healing.

sirrmattus · January 2016

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

That's not entirely true

. I heal better on my sorc and NB than many Templars I have been grouped with.

sirrmattus · January 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

That's not entirely true . I heal better on my sorc and NB than many Templars I have been grouped with.

That's a l2p issue for those healers than. There is no way any other class could heal better than a templar

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

That's not entirely true . I heal better on my sorc and NB than many Templars I have been grouped with.

That's a l2p issue for those healers than. There is no way any other class could heal better than a templar

Yes it is, just learning the events basically, and practice. I have healed all the same content on my Sorc and Templar with equal success though. It's true that Templar has a better "oh crap" button, but I have done all of the same content on both.

Anyway, I understand what people are getting at. However, since I have successfully done all the same content does it really matter what class? A good healer is a good healer and it's whatever they enjoy that is important.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

That's not entirely true . I heal better on my sorc and NB than many Templars I have been grouped with.

Just because others suck at healing and you may be better, even with only a resto, doesn't mean that Sorcs are better healers.

I think what they are trying to say is that it is pretty irrefutable that Templars bring the most utility to the team (in healer role) in addition to phenomenal class heals and decent DPS. Doesn't mean templars are the only ones who can, or should, heal PvE content. It just means they offer a little more, and others may have to work a little harder to fill the role.

HebrewHatchet · January 2016

The answer to the topic question is very simple. There is more demand for healers than DPS in group finder queues. Sorcerer DPS characters are incentiveized to take on healing roles with the promise of shorter queue times. Some fail and others succeed. I imagine that the majority of sorcerer healers are either geared/specced for DPS or, at the very least, began as DPS, in the end, it leads to more healers in the pool.

I have done this with my sorcerer, and it turns out that it's actually a lot of fun to heal/DPS with a geared sorcerer. But I agree that more granularity would be welcome in the group finder interface. I would personally like an advanced search option where you could choose dungeon/role combinations.

Browiseth · January 2016

I have no problem with Sorc healers. Then again, I'm also not the type of player that expects the healer to do everything for them...

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

sorcs are lacking group buff maybe? eh. no healer is as good as a templar healer. so thats what is more important discussion

That's not entirely true . I heal better on my sorc and NB than many Templars I have been grouped with.

Just because others suck at healing and you may be better, even with only a resto, doesn't mean that Sorcs are better healers.

I think what they are trying to say is that it is pretty irrefutable that Templars bring the most utility to the team (in healer role) in addition to phenomenal class heals and decent DPS. Doesn't mean templars are the only ones who can, or should, heal PvE content. It just means they offer a little more, and others may have to work a little harder to fill the role.

Yes, I know what they are saying. What I am saying is, the best predictor of having a good healer is who is behind the keyboard, more than class. Personally I am happy the game was built this way because I have a v16 Magicka Templar and a V16 Magicka sorc and never have to worry about having a good healer. Also, on my sorc, I offer a much more survivable and higher DPS option to the group than on my Templar.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

I ask thus because of a recent dungeons I crashed an burned on with a Sorc "healer" who only used Repid Regen, Healing Ward and Healing Springs, which on Vet Banished Cells isn't really enough for the last boss unless they're paying a lot of attention to the health of their teammates.

It made me wonder what Sorcs have going for them to make them a healer? Templars are the normal healers, NB's have siphoning, and DK's have Igneous, wheras Sorc's just seem to have the Resto Staff heals.

I'm not saying that Sorcs can't heal btw, just wondering why people make them?

Sorry your sorc healer wasn't up to par, but there is nothing inherently wrong with a sorc healer. Also the spells you are referring to are perfectly valid healing spells.

Zerok · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

I ask thus because of a recent dungeons I crashed an burned on with a Sorc "healer" who only used Repid Regen, Healing Ward and Healing Springs, which on Vet Banished Cells isn't really enough for the last boss unless they're paying a lot of attention to the health of their teammates.

It made me wonder what Sorcs have going for them to make them a healer? Templars are the normal healers, NB's have siphoning, and DK's have Igneous, wheras Sorc's just seem to have the Resto Staff heals.

I'm not saying that Sorcs can't heal btw, just wondering why people make them?

The answer you're looking for is flexibility.

With my sorcerer I can either heal or DPS in dungeon runs. High spell damage works both ways.

Also let's face it, most people don't have time to create both a dedicated templar healer AND a dedicated sorcerer DPS. If you can do both, why not?

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Islyn wrote: »

I have a friend sorc who healed v16 vet bc the other day just fine. The hard part is no shards for tank, but we clear timed, no deaths at all.

He also has healed vet DC - some deaths, no wipes. The deaths were only due to one standing in fire at final boss. Otherwise no deaths.

I am our group's usual healer but I wanted pledges on my DK so.....

I personally prefer a Templar, but a sorc who pays attention is just fine.

You can use the master restoration staff to help with the stamina regen. A sorc can basically have unlimited magicka for heals if you spec for it. Some good sets for this are Healer's Habit and Eyes of Mara.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Stranglehands wrote: »

What ults would you run? Negate magic is really scraping the bottom of the barrel

Replenishing Barrier. Mine give the group over 35k ward. Negate is not a bad one either.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Calboy wrote: »

Sorcerer is a very poorly designed class. Lack of stamina morphs, lack of heavy armour options that allow a tank build that doesn't revolve around stacking magicka to increase shields and very very very VERY poor summoning options outside of using a clannfear to level. Oh, but we are capable of a very strong cookie cutter magicka dps build so I guess thats alright.

How long have you been playing a sorc?

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Spottswoode wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Stranglehands wrote: »

What ults would you run? Negate magic is really scraping the bottom of the barrel

Barrier from the pvp skill line is an awesome panic button for not templars

This and Energy Overload. In that order. I've mentioned this a multitude of times, but I like to run Redistribution set with all of my non-templars.
Heals I primarily use: Mutagen, Blessing of Restoration, Shield Ally, Energy Orb.
Overflowing Altar can be useful with bosses that have a lot of stationary attacks.
Twilight Matriarch can be useful when combined with Redistribution and Shield stacking.

Quick Siphon is gimmicky, but it certainly has its uses.
Grand Healing and its morphs aren't something I would use in PVE dedicated healing.

Barrier isn't something you have to reserve as a panic button. When you're healing you build ultimate so fast you can almost use it every fight, especially if you have replenishing barrier.

Aimora · January 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

I love my sorcerer healer - I have healed all content up to trials ( even been 2nd healer in there) Bogdan's helm helps loads It's more of a challenge than my Templar, but great fun - it's annoying that people assume the only good healers are Temps, a NB friend was an amazing healer too

Mentioning that you use Bogdan Helm to heal ruins any credibility you might have as a healer

Ok

bimbo · January 2016

a templar healer is much better, but how many of them are out there.

I heal on my sorc b/c i am tired of spamming in zone chat for a healer. banished cell is very easy, never have troubles to heal that one.

Khaos_Bane · January 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Sorcerer is a very poorly designed class. Lack of stamina morphs, lack of heavy armour options that allow a tank build that doesn't revolve around stacking magicka to increase shields and very very very VERY poor summoning options outside of using a clannfear to level. Oh, but we are capable of a very strong cookie cutter magicka dps build so I guess thats alright.

How long have you been playing a sorc?

Why do you ask. That was a pretty accurate post he made. STA builds are basically underwhelming, but it they have been worse. I love the Magicka build, just wish we would have our own spamable DD spell rather than having to be locked in to destro.

Spottswoode · January 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Stranglehands wrote: »

What ults would you run? Negate magic is really scraping the bottom of the barrel

Barrier from the pvp skill line is an awesome panic button for not templars

This and Energy Overload. In that order. I've mentioned this a multitude of times, but I like to run Redistribution set with all of my non-templars.
Heals I primarily use: Mutagen, Blessing of Restoration, Shield Ally, Energy Orb.
Overflowing Altar can be useful with bosses that have a lot of stationary attacks.
Twilight Matriarch can be useful when combined with Redistribution and Shield stacking.

Quick Siphon is gimmicky, but it certainly has its uses.
Grand Healing and its morphs aren't something I would use in PVE dedicated healing.

Barrier isn't something you have to reserve as a panic button. When you're healing you build ultimate so fast you can almost use it every fight, especially if you have replenishing barrier.

Reviving Barrier is a decent panic button, but I put Shield Ally on my heal bar so I usually just end up stacking shields anyway as a panic reaction. (I do use Replenishing, just saying.)

Yeah..there's definitely no need to be stingy with using Barrier.

I still recommend Energy Overload for the second bar to recoup magicka quickly.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Calboy wrote: »

Sorcerer is a very poorly designed class. Lack of stamina morphs, lack of heavy armour options that allow a tank build that doesn't revolve around stacking magicka to increase shields and very very very VERY poor summoning options outside of using a clannfear to level. Oh, but we are capable of a very strong cookie cutter magicka dps build so I guess thats alright.

How long have you been playing a sorc?

Why do you ask. That was a pretty accurate post he made. STA builds are basically underwhelming, but it they have been worse. I love the Magicka build, just wish we would have our own spamable DD spell rather than having to be locked in to destro.

Because we are a very versatile class. Anyone who explores our potential and is slightly creative could see that. If he's new to the class I could see why he might be myopic. I still see no point in playing as a stam sorc, unless you literally only want to do DPS.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Spottswoode wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Stranglehands wrote: »

What ults would you run? Negate magic is really scraping the bottom of the barrel

Barrier from the pvp skill line is an awesome panic button for not templars

This and Energy Overload. In that order. I've mentioned this a multitude of times, but I like to run Redistribution set with all of my non-templars.
Heals I primarily use: Mutagen, Blessing of Restoration, Shield Ally, Energy Orb.
Overflowing Altar can be useful with bosses that have a lot of stationary attacks.
Twilight Matriarch can be useful when combined with Redistribution and Shield stacking.

Quick Siphon is gimmicky, but it certainly has its uses.
Grand Healing and its morphs aren't something I would use in PVE dedicated healing.

Barrier isn't something you have to reserve as a panic button. When you're healing you build ultimate so fast you can almost use it every fight, especially if you have replenishing barrier.

Reviving Barrier is a decent panic button, but I put Shield Ally on my heal bar so I usually just end up stacking shields anyway as a panic reaction. (I do use Replenishing, just saying.)

Yeah..there's definitely no need to be stingy with using Barrier.

I still recommend Energy Overload for the second bar to recoup magicka quickly.

I think maybe that's the problem. Sorc healers are steady healing, you shouldn't find yourself in a panic situation too often. If you are then you ought to examine your spell rotation and gear. It's actually not that difficult to heal as a sorc if you pay attention to what you're doing. And really shouldn't be running out magicka very often. I suspect if you're relying too much on Healing Ward then you would. But HW should be your panic button. This is how I do it:
Mutagen twice to give everyone the tick, spam healing springs, until you need to refresh mutagen, use siphon spirit on bosses if you want and cast barrier whenever it's ready, unless you need to save it for a boss fight. Use healing ward as a "panic" button. You can basically cast healing springs all day long without running out of magicka if you use the eyes of mara set and the healer habit set. It's really not that complicated.

If magicka is a problem for you, then put dark exchange on your off bar and use the time that barriers active to replenish your magicka, but honestly with just using potions I rarely have to use dark exchange.

Joy_Division · January 2016

Sorcs used to be decent healers before 1.6 changes.

The sorc healers out there are likely very old characters patiently waiting for ZoS to fix the mistakes they made a year ago, newer players who don;t realize how much was lost, or people who haven't bothered to change their suboptimal spec because there is no PvE end-game raids that is actually challenging.