Justice System PvP - Please explain exactly WHY you are for / against this content!
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DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastBring it into Cyrodiil first! Players can check the bounty board on other players in their campaign that have bounties on their head. If they kill them, they collect.
It's not ideal, but it's a start, and will keep QQing to a minimum. Would be pretty awkward if the bounty you are to collect is on someone from your faction.
To easily detect those with bounties, a red padlock appears next to their name when you target them with how much their bounty is worth.
You could one step further and add bounties if people kill others while inside towns in Cyrodiil. Everything stays the same - no guards or any other penalties, just a bounty.
I just want some kind of PVP justice system like we were told god damn it.
Killing people in your own army is the opposite of what PvP needs apart from kill people who hand scrolls to the enemy.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastMornaBaine wrote: »From the earliest mention of the justice system on ESO Live with Paul Sage we were assured that no one would be "forced" to PvP and we were told they were withholding implementation of that part of the justice system while they worked that out. I hate to think they were just too dumb to figure it out and that's why they scrapped it. It SEEMS to me that all that would have been necessary was a flagging system such as is already in place for dueling in many MMOs. If WoW and SWTOR can figure it out and implement it I have a hard time understanding why ZOS can't.
The PvP portion of the Justice system was the one thing a lot of people were really excited about. It's a shame to see ZOS fail so hard regarding it.
How do flagging systems work? Is it just a game setting?0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastMADshadowmans_Ghost wrote: »MADshadowmans_Ghost wrote: »I think with some simple rule sets, we could prevent this from becoming a pve slaughter fest. Here's my idea:- If you steal small things, like a bread or a drink and get caught, this should not make you attackable by other players. instead you gain a bounty just like it's now.
- If your bounty reaches a certain level (maybe 5k), this should make you attackable.
- This way you could easily avoid becoming attackable by not trying to get caught or paying off your bounty before it's too late.
- If you attack someone, you should gain a bounty and the guards should take care of you. But if you kill someone, this should make you attackable.
- With these simple rule sets it's possible to stay out of the pvp portion of the justice system by being careful, trying to be a good thief and by paying off your bounty before it reaches a certain level.
- You can still be a small-time criminal and steal things to make money, and you can still punch a npc in the face if they say something stupid, but you cannot kill someone and expect to be safe. At this point you gotta pay with your blood.
What do you guys think about these ideas?
The problem is that you're still looking to exclude PvEers from PvE content in PvE areas. Why should a PvEer not be able to kill a NPC without being forced into PvP? Why should PvEers be forced out of part of the PvE content in PvE zones because PvP is brought outside the PvP zones?
I would have had absolutely no problem whatsoever with the PvP part of the Justice System, provided it was contained within the PvP zones, but that was never acceptable to the PvPers who wanted it as a form of open world PvP. The two playstyles simply don't mix well in the same areas and mixing them into the same content with PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas was only ever going to end badly.
After 2 years of only PvE updates and no PvP updates whatsoever, the only thing i can say is: deal with it.
I proposed these rule sets, so that people who really don't wanna be attacked have a way to fly under the radar, but there has to be a point where the system draws a line. If you wanna do certain things, then live with the consequences. It's as simple as that.
There have been a lot of changes to, or prompted by, PvP as well as a whole PvP DLC so there's no need to pretend the last couple of years have just been about PvE!
I can happily accept PvE consequences for PvE acts and PvP consequences for PvP acts, but I do have a problem with PvP consequences for PvE acts. But as you say, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
Fortunately ZOS have drawn the line, and in my view they've done so correctly.
@Tandor I'm not sure where you were but the imperial city was a PvE dlc with occasional PvP
It has absolutely zero PvP objectives that affect the campaign or PvP rewards.
Why does it have to affect campaign or PvP rewards to be PvP? Battlegrounds like will have zero impact on any of that but it will clearly be PvP.
If you kill another player character, it is PvP.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?
No need to pay bounties. Just do stuff away from guards.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastanitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The only concerns i've had toward anything with the justice system, come from two experiences with it as it stands now. Doing a quest in stonefalls, battling Nords while drunk, accidentally killed a chicken, incurred a bounty. While trying to complete another quest (forget which zone), I had to kill a whole lot of soldiers on while trying to gain entry into a castle. Another player was also killing said soldiers, so I threw a heal their way, only to get a bounty, as the player was not doing the same quest, just randomly killing npc's, or trying to.
Last thing I want to to be ganked by a bounty hunter due to incidents as stated above.
If you haven't opted-in for justice-system-pvp, you won't. Simple as that.
But even then... you got those bounties by accident. What do you do ? either wait (disconnect) or pay it the a guard or a fence. If another player kills you and takes the bounty, what difference is it to you ? The only difference is that you stand a chance against a player and none against a guard.
The difference is, I was questing. Not actively trying to participate in anything criminal. Thought it was quite obvious.
I got that. But you still had to pay your bounty, didn't you ?
Yes, absolutely. The only thing that bothered me about the system as it is. Such is life, the bounties were not large.
Then, what does it matter if you pay it to a guard, to a fence or to a player ?
Don't pay anyone. Just run away from guards and get lost in the wilderness.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastAgain... players should NOT be able to flat out opt-out of Justice System PVP. I really think that is missing the point of the Justice System PVP. The Justice System shouldn't just be used to open up Tamriel-wide PVP, it should be an engaging part of the PVP system.
Horrible idea. When this game launched, you could loot with impunity. All containers were free to loot. They already added restrictions to that to add PvE repercussions. But that is completely different from adding PvP. As an Elder Scrolls game, a lot of players here have no interest in PvP, but should still be able to loot containers. Sure, adding what you want would be an engaging part of the PvP system. We could turn all PvE into PvP to add engaging parts to the PvP system. But that would lead to a much smaller player base as people who play because it is Elder Scrolls and who don't really MMO would not enjoy the game.
I am all for them adding PvP options for people who like that, assuming that it makes sense revenue-wise. Personally, I benefit if they release more story content DLC and don't waste many resources on PvP development -- but they need to do what keeps the game viable and they have people who can analyze that. But taking away container looting from people who play the game for PvE stories is not a good idea.
People who are for this change like to claim that they are for 'more options'. Nonsense. They are not for any more options than those who want to be able to still loot containers in town without engaging in PvP. If they can add an opt-in system that doesn't lead to easy exploits to accumulate cash (like people standing by wayshrines killing NPCs and then killing each other), that would be great.
I'm curious where the bounty payoff is supposed to come from? I can kill 20 people while holding zero gold. If I were to be killed by an enforcer, how would they get paid? Either they get nothing, or we have an easy exploit where people kill NPCs and they let their friends kill them.3 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastHow can players treat "because I don't want to look at that" as a valid reason for something not to be implemented?
At least the post from @Contraptions was a fine example of things he is worried might be implemented incorrectly and had doubts about.
Also, don't mean to disrespect anyone here, but comments like "I don't want to look at that" or "PvE zones for PvEer" sound much like something a homophobe would say for gay marriage.
You don't have to like it, but where did you get the idea it would affect you in any way?
I am 100% for marriage equality, but I don't want you swapping out my wife.
I do find the "I don't want to look at it" perspective ridiculous though.Edited by DaveMoeDee on January 17, 2016 7:31PM0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd like to vote but my opinion isn't reflected in the options presented, my vote would be:
I'm fine with the justice pvp system except for the fact that I can just go to cyrondil and pvp and the only people I see running from guards are naked or noobs; hence why even bother implementing something pointless?0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastIt's certainly interesting that a higher proportion of those who have played a game with a PvP Justice System opposes it in ESO compared with those who have not played such a game.
Usually one would expect there to be an argument that most people opposed to something have never tried it, the inference being that if they had tried it they'd like it, but the poll results so far suggest the opposite is true. The proportion of those who oppose it in ESO rises when they have had experience of it elsewhere.
Perhaps if people liked it, they would be playing a different game.
I have never tried it because I have never played a different MMO. I'm not insterested in game categories. I'm interested in particular games.0 -
Jennifur_Vultee✭✭✭✭✭I guess some of you haven't heard that they have cancelled the PVP portion of the justice system, check out the last ESO live, skip ahead to 14:15 and 26:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8m14tUK43U Edited by Jennifur_Vultee on January 17, 2016 7:55PM"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." – Albert Einstein
Treat a customer fairly and they will remember you. Treat a customer poorly and they never forget.
Imperial City: Zerg, gank or die.1 -
Lefty_Lucy✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastJennifur_Vultee wrote: »I guess some of you haven't heard that they have cancelled the PVP portion of the justice system because, "In our internal testing it simply broke too many things." Check out the last ESO live, skip ahead to 26:30https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8m14tUK43U
This poll was created with the knowledge that the PvP portion of the Justice System was cancelled.
Yes, it's too late. But it wouldn't have mattered if it was early. No ZOS acknowledgement or communication.Competetive small scale PvP'er.
GM of Afterburner - DC small scale PvP guild
YouTube: youtube.com/leftylucy_pvp
Livestream: twitch.tv/leftylucy_pvp1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastDaveMoeDee wrote: »I am not opposed to having a PvP justice system. I just shouldn't have any impact on me whatsoever unless I decide to go do it. If I steal all day in Glenumbra and have a 1 million bounty, I should still be just playing PvE in Glenumbra. If I want PvP, I will go to a PvP zone.
I have no problem with adding a system like this in a new zone. I do have a problem with an opt in system that gives higher rewards as the stealing rewards are already pretty good and increasing them will lead to ridiculous exploits. Considering people already waste a ring slot on Ring of Mara for minimal benefit, imagine what people would do when playing together if they can get benefits from the justice system? They could just do a bunch of naked killing and stealing around each wayshrine until there is nothing left to steal or kill.
I would enjoy a PvP justice system in a new PvE-centric zone that has particular stealing or assassination jobs that other players are supposed to thwart. But PvP because they have a bounty seems a horrible idea. What happens to the bounty if they are killed? Does it go down? How much? If not by much, doesn't that mean they will just get killed over and over again? If it goes down a lot, won't we just see exploits where people run up 1 million bounties and then ask a friend to kill them after they have already laundered items?
And what would the enforcer get from the exchange? Items or gold from the person killed? What if they have no stolen items on them and no gold? Ideally, the system is part of something new that has a novel reward that makes sense. What would that be? I have no idea. But any rewards based on killing someone are easily exploited unless the rewards are low or have drastically diminishing returns.
I already gave a pretty detailed suggestion that answers to many of your questions here.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastLefty_Lucy wrote: »Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »I guess some of you haven't heard that they have cancelled the PVP portion of the justice system because, "In our internal testing it simply broke too many things." Check out the last ESO live, skip ahead to 26:30https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8m14tUK43U
This poll was created with the knowledge that the PvP portion of the Justice System was cancelled.
Yes, it's too late. But it wouldn't have mattered if it was early. No ZOS acknowledgement or communication.
They announced their decision. Why would they then want to contribute to a hundred and one separate threads containing the differing opinions that led them to make that decision in the first place?
Now that PvPers know that the decision has been made to keep PvP in PvP zones and PvE in PvE zones as communicated by Matt Firor, they have the opportunity to put forward and debate ways in which the PvP aspect of the Justice System and any other PvP options can be provided within PvP zones. That may well be a debate that ZOS would at least read if not contribute to, whereas they have no reason to read or contribute to threads about ways of accommodating the PvP aspect of the Justice System in PvE zones given that they've already decided not to go down that route.
In any event, we already know from ESO Live that ZOS are actively planning on implementing capture mechanics and reward systems to towns in Cyrodiil, as well as IC districts, and are wanting to add new siege weapons or tweak existing ones as well as adding Instanced and small-scale PvP to the game, so they cannot be accused of not listening or communicating. Nor can they be accused of focusing solely on PvE and abandoning the PvPers. They are working on significant PvP improvements, and that means there's an opportunity now for all PvPers to influence how those improvements work out rather than discussing how ZOS could have done something that they've already decided not to do.Edited by Tandor on January 17, 2016 10:50PM3 -
dwtdwtdwt✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastThe presumed implementation of the pvp aspect in the Justice System is the only reason I've continued to play for so long. I haven't logged on in over a month, playing other games while I wait for the Thieves Guild DLC to release. It's a shame that I am having second thoughts about even downloading the patch. If Cyrodiil is the best ZoS can do for pvp, then this is a travesty.
They had this plan of Outlaws and Enforcers. I don't think that would work because it is most likely more lucrative to steal, causing less Enforcers. And it would mean Enforcers can't steal, so what's the point? This is how I always envisioned the Justice pvp would go, most of which is already in the game:
I've said it so many times- If you can't face the punishment, don't commit the crime. There is an Opt-Out switch in the game settings. I am unsure what balance issues the developers are having, but if a level 22 has a bounty, who cares if he gets ambushed by a v16 nightblade (who may or may not have a bounty himself).?. The level 22 player shouldn't have gotten a Fugitive bounty. It's called "poor thievery" when you get caught.
The reward for this should be the bounty itself. But, you can't-kill-on-sight; you can only kill when the bounty is at Fugitive level, the way the game already is. If you acquire a bounty for getting caught while trying to pick a lockbox, that is not punishable by law. If you run from a guard for having a minor bounty, then it is gametime- open season for another player to claim that bounty. In Cyrodiil, you shouldn't be able to claim a bounty on your own faction. But claiming bounties from other factions is just fine.
Some things would have to be changed. For instance, cloak and invisibility would have to be fixed. Right now players in your faction can see you when you're cloaked (Why, I don't know. It never made any sense since you can't target them.) So, the Hidden concept should work overall. Except when in a group or raid. Also, and this could be up for debate, players shouldn't be allowed to fight in a city. Let the guards patrol the city, you can claim a bounty out in the world, when they try to complete quests. It would cut down on all the QQ and other mishaps the develpoeres are worried about.
These are simple rules which some are already in place in the game. it doesn't have to be that complicated. If the Justice System turns out to be something more of an endgame thing, then sobeit. Committing crimes should have serious consequences in the game and right now they do not. The best thieves get away with it because they are the best. Those who get caught get caught for a reason- they are doing it wrong. And they should get in trouble for it.
If the developers are concerned with balance and fairness, how fair is it that players are now allowed to murder in the streets at will, killing everything they see, accumulating sometimes 100,000's of gold as bounty, and then running out of a city and completing quests, and no one can do anything about it. So, when the murderers complain that they can't complete quests because of their ridiculously high bounty, ZoS is quick to fix that so they can come and go as they please. Seriously!?!"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato2 -
petraeus1✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastThe presumed implementation of the pvp aspect in the Justice System is the only reason I've continued to play for so long. I haven't logged on in over a month, playing other games while I wait for the Thieves Guild DLC to release. It's a shame that I am having second thoughts about even downloading the patch. If Cyrodiil is the best ZoS can do for pvp, then this is a travesty.
They had this plan of Outlaws and Enforcers. I don't think that would work because it is most likely more lucrative to steal, causing less Enforcers. And it would mean Enforcers can't steal, so what's the point? This is how I always envisioned the Justice pvp would go, most of which is already in the game:
I've said it so many times- If you can't face the punishment, don't commit the crime. There is an Opt-Out switch in the game settings. I am unsure what balance issues the developers are having, but if a level 22 has a bounty, who cares if he gets ambushed by a v16 nightblade (who may or may not have a bounty himself).?. The level 22 player shouldn't have gotten a Fugitive bounty. It's called "poor thievery" when you get caught.
The reward for this should be the bounty itself. But, you can't-kill-on-sight; you can only kill when the bounty is at Fugitive level, the way the game already is. If you acquire a bounty for getting caught while trying to pick a lockbox, that is not punishable by law. If you run from a guard for having a minor bounty, then it is gametime- open season for another player to claim that bounty. In Cyrodiil, you shouldn't be able to claim a bounty on your own faction. But claiming bounties from other factions is just fine.
Some things would have to be changed. For instance, cloak and invisibility would have to be fixed. Right now players in your faction can see you when you're cloaked (Why, I don't know. It never made any sense since you can't target them.) So, the Hidden concept should work overall. Except when in a group or raid. Also, and this could be up for debate, players shouldn't be allowed to fight in a city. Let the guards patrol the city, you can claim a bounty out in the world, when they try to complete quests. It would cut down on all the QQ and other mishaps the develpoeres are worried about.
These are simple rules which some are already in place in the game. it doesn't have to be that complicated. If the Justice System turns out to be something more of an endgame thing, then sobeit. Committing crimes should have serious consequences in the game and right now they do not. The best thieves get away with it because they are the best. Those who get caught get caught for a reason- they are doing it wrong. And they should get in trouble for it.
If the developers are concerned with balance and fairness, how fair is it that players are now allowed to murder in the streets at will, killing everything they see, accumulating sometimes 100,000's of gold as bounty, and then running out of a city and completing quests, and no one can do anything about it. So, when the murderers complain that they can't complete quests because of their ridiculously high bounty, ZoS is quick to fix that so they can come and go as they please. Seriously!?!
What about bounty farming? What happens if someone has a bounty, but launders all his stuff and banks his money? Who pays the bounty? The whole reward structure for this system is very difficult to implement without it being exploitable, which is why I would be in favour of very limited reward structure. Otherwise people would choose to not become Enforcer, or be an Enforcer but let people slip to share rewards. I agree that the current system is broken too and way too easy for people who are a bit experienced. But Justice PvP can't be made profitable for either side, otherwise people will use that.0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the past
In any event, we already know from ESO Live that ZOS are actively planning on implementing capture mechanics and reward systems to towns in Cyrodiil, as well as IC districts, and are wanting to add new siege weapons or tweak existing ones as well as adding Instanced and small-scale PvP to the game, so they cannot be accused of not listening or communicating. Nor can they be accused of focusing solely on PvE and abandoning the PvPers. They are working on significant PvP improvements, and that means there's an opportunity now for all PvPers to influence how those improvements work out rather than discussing how ZOS could have done something that they've already decided not to do.
I just want to focus on this final paragraph as it highlights a lot of problems with this way of thinking. Note that the Justice System was something that ZOS was supposed to be actively working on too. It was something that they stated they wanted to add to the game but game us no timeline for its completion, i.e. no ETA. Sound familiar? Also, we were never shown any progress for the supposed Justice System that ZOS wanted to achieve. The specifics for how the Justice System were going to work were never revealed or hinted at. It's as if they honestly had no idea how it would work, which leads to the conclusion that they never actually worked on it as this would be something that would be determined during a prototype phase, even before alpha. Note that the only alternative would be that their management is totally incomptent and doesn't actually prototype before implementing changes.
So let's compare that to what ZOS has once again promised in ESO Live. So far the only information we have is what the community told them we wanted. No specifics were released and the only information they noted could have been copied directly from any number of community suggestion threads. At least they have an idea of how the system should work though, right? The problem is that once again we have no firm timeline or any explanation for how the proposed system will work. They haven't even prototyped it yet! The same applies to battlegrounds. So you really want us to believe that they haven't abandoned PvPer's yet? Maybe in a year we might have something to show for our efforts but as it stands now they literally have as much done with the Justice System as they have accomplished with this content they are supposedly working on (and we know that their focus is the next two DLCs, not PvP content). What exactly have they detailed that would lead you to believe they have done any work on what they claim? So far it's the Justice System all over again (and how did that turn out again?).Edited by Hiero_Glyph on January 18, 2016 4:32PM3 -
Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI'm not a big fan of pvp in this game but currently behaving like a criminal scumbag has pretty much no negatives and all positives, this needs to change and the that of being killed, ganked and generally irritated by players as a result of being a thug could help people decide whether to be criminal or not.2
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Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI saw...
If the developers are concerned with balance and fairness, how fair is it that players are now allowed to murder in the streets at will, killing everything they see, accumulating sometimes 100,000's of gold as bounty, and then running out of a city and completing quests, and no one can do anything about it. So, when the murderers complain that they can't complete quests because of their ridiculously high bounty, ZoS is quick to fix that so they can come and go as they please. Seriously!?!
This part I agree on.
ZOS decided to neglect the fact that the current system is half baked, exploitable, and ultimately not fun.
Instead they gave in to requests of people that exploited this broken system.1 -
Vynist✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI just want some good small scale pvp. Arenas, Justice System, Battlegrounds, Duels... That's the only reason I play this game.
I have never done one of those 12-man trial and honestly I don't feel the need to do it at all. The only reason I will do the Undaunted pledges is to level Undaunted for pvp or get the gear for pvp.
I don't understand why PvE'ers are so against PvP. If you don't want to PvP, simply don't. I don't see why y'all gotta shut down PvP content.
PvP'ers have NOT gotten an update yet. Imperial City doesn not count, they said that on ESO Live themselves. It's a PvE zone with a lil bit of PvP mixed in.0 -
I am against Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastThere is only one way I'd be wiling to see Justice System PvP:
- Players would have to *actively* opt in. This means a switch in Settings (which defaults to OFF), not just obtaining enough of a bounty. There should be no way possible for a player to accidentally trigger Justice System PvP. (While we're at it, Prevent Attacking Innocents ought to default to ON, and there *really* needs to be a switch to Confirm stealing items which aren't in containers...)
- Either Justice System PvP would need to be restricted entirely to PvP zones, OR
- PvP flagged players (and any effects they fire) would need to be invisible to non-PvP flagged players in PvE zones - preferably they should be isolated in a different shard of the Megaserver so their antics don't cause any performance issues with the PvE players.
That would assure that PvE players aren't impacted at all by PvP players... Do that and I might consider that Justice PvP is acceptable. Otherwise it's a BAD idea which we hopefully will never hear about again.2 -
leeux✭✭✭✭✭I didn't mind the idea of PvP in the Justice System when they proposed it at first.
I also didn't mind the idea of the Justice System as a whole, even if it rob me of some legitimate ways to play the game and make gold by finding motifs, as I was able to do before they introduced it. Rats, even some quests requires that you break the law now... whether I wanted or not.
And I wouldn't mind the idea of having it, if it were implemented in such a way that there wasn't ANY possibility of ever having any abuse/exploit/brokenness brought into the PvE land for players not wanting to participate in it.
And about: "toggle to not participate"... That's BS and everyone knows it... as it was for the original JS, even if they implement such a toggle, they game will always change for the worst for people not wanting to participate... if not, it's just not a justifiable addition to the game in terms of resource expenditure vs. players that get to experience it... they'll have to FORCE it upon players, by making them NEED something behind such a PvP wall.
But all that doesn't really matters, since what I don't see ever happening it's that ZOS implements it in such a "risk free/top notch code quality/flawless conceptual design," that everyone will be still going about their business after PvP JS is introduced and the game will continue as if nothing really had happened... yeah, that's not how it works, really.
ZOS has demonstrated that it's simply incapable of implementing anything without bugs, without conceptual errors even... and event after people pointed to them the most glaring design errors visible to all, they never acted quickly enough to give any guarantees of how they good they will THIS time.
And such a system WILL get broken and abused within weeks of launch, and we'll have the game ruined for everyone with all the exploits currently running rampant in Cyrodiil starting to infect PvE land.
ZOS cannot afford to take such a hit at this point, and I am, for one, grateful that they recognize their limits and back out from the plan (at least for now) instead of going ahead blindingly and ruin the game for everyone for months.
This all is, of course, my humble opinion... and I accept that people don't share it.PC/NA - Proud old member of the Antique Ordinatus Populus
My charsLiana Amnell (AD mSorc L50+, ex EP) =x= Lehnnan Klennett (AD mTemplar L50+ Healer/Support ) =x= Ethim Amnell (AD mDK L50+, ex DC)Leinwyn Valaene (AD mSorc L50+) =x= Levus Artorias (AD mDK-for-now L50+) =x= Madril Ulessen (AD mNB L50+) =x= Lyra Amnis (AD not-Stamplar-yet L50+)I only PvP on AD chars
~~ «And blossoms anew beneath tomorrow's sun >>»
~~ «I am forever swimming around, amidst this ocean world we call home... >>»
~~ "Let strength be granted so the world might be mended... so the world might be mended."
~~ "Slash the silver chain that binds thee to life"
~~ Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn. >>
~~ The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change >>
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Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastThe only way they could break it is by applying a wrong reward system.
I will say again: I believe both Outlaws and Enforces should get dailies that send them to certain zones (not starter zones).
- Outlaws have a certain goal (pickpocket X people), then hand over the quest for a very high chance of a new set only available through those quests.
- Enforces have a goal to catch thieves, and DO NOT GET GOLD OR STOLEN ITEMS, but the bounty gets translated to points that the daily quest demands to complete. So a 200g bounty would translate to 200 points.
Yes, this kind of system can still be "abused" by friends catching each other with bounties. But remember! If a person does not have sufficient gold on him, the bounty won't get deleted upon death by guard or Enforcer (yes, this system is in game already). So, if the Outlaw does not lose gold (gold does not go to Enforcer, but is a sink), then his bounty stays, and the Enforcer does not gain points.
So it could not be actually abused so much as players could throw gold into a sink for completing a daily quest (sets).
A gold sink.1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I am against Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI just want some good small scale pvp. Arenas, Justice System, Battlegrounds, Duels... That's the only reason I play this game.
I have never done one of those 12-man trial and honestly I don't feel the need to do it at all. The only reason I will do the Undaunted pledges is to level Undaunted for pvp or get the gear for pvp.
I don't understand why PvE'ers are so against PvP. If you don't want to PvP, simply don't. I don't see why y'all gotta shut down PvP content.
PvP'ers have NOT gotten an update yet. Imperial City doesn not count, they said that on ESO Live themselves. It's a PvE zone with a lil bit of PvP mixed in.
Just because of how PvPers act towards PvErs, with how they call PvErs carebears, casuals, noobs, etc just to name a few nicer things.... Think that might have something to do with why PvErs don't want them outside of cyrodiil?
R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD2 -
dwtdwtdwt✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Just because of how PvPers act towards PvErs, with how they call PvErs carebears, casuals, noobs, etc just to name a few nicer things.... Think that might have something to do with why PvErs don't want them outside of cyrodiil?
By your rationale, it would be ok for PvPrs to not want PvE in Cyrodiil. This includes everything in IC, faction guards, delve bosses, etc. And that should be fine with you, because, the PvErs don't want PvP outside Cyro.
No PvP outside Cyrodiil, but of course there should be PvE in Cyrodiil.?. C'mon! Having PvP in the open world should not be a major issue, especially when it comes from a system that has an ON/Off switch. Understand, in the Justice System, you wouldn't have to PvP if you don't have a fugitive bounty. How often does that happen with players? If it is happening a lot, then that is the balance issues the developers need to be addressing. If you're having a 73 million bounty that can't be claimed, then the system is malfunctioned.
I hate to keep this thread going since the developers have made their stance, but it is recent news to me as I have not been keeping up with ESO lately. However, with this much support for PvP in the Justice System (currently 78% of this poll), you would hope those who can make it happen, would make it happen.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." -Plato2 -
LoreRiley✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastPvers are in ma Cyrodil ruinin ma 'mersion so y can eye knot bee in theyre PvE ruenin thur immeshion killing le nuubs?0
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastcosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »Just because of how PvPers act towards PvErs, with how they call PvErs carebears, casuals, noobs, etc just to name a few nicer things.... Think that might have something to do with why PvErs don't want them outside of cyrodiil?
By your rationale, it would be ok for PvPrs to not want PvE in Cyrodiil. This includes everything in IC, faction guards, delve bosses, etc. And that should be fine with you, because, the PvErs don't want PvP outside Cyro.
That's not what he/she meant.
What was meant is that the behaviour of many PvPers towards PvEers contributes to the two communities going increasingly apart from each other and not wanting to tolerate anything from each other anymore. It's a shame but that's how it is.
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HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have played at least one game with Justice System PvP content in the pastMy follow up for a way to implement some PVP with the justice system, rather than throwing everything into the fray0 -
Woodoochill✭✭✭I am in favor of Justice System PvP and I have never played a game with Justice System PvP content in the pastI didnt read all 13 pages... I just want to know if ZOS care about this thread... 77% ppl voting YES is clearly showing they should rethink their statement about cancelling it.1
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Decayed_Inside✭✭✭✭It's a scrapped idea so this poll is pointless. Where is that option? /thread?0
