Can a dev a a experienced vet play explain how NPC agro works?

DarkenedHour · January 2016

I'm about to hit lvl 40 with a healer/semitank and around lvl 38 with a assassin dps nuker crit rusher and i can not seem to figure out how NPC agro works. Coming from other mmos Runescape/WoW/Everquest ect.. in dungeons the bosses/minions agro the "tank" and the dpses do damage and the healer heals mainly the tank and the dpses from AoE damage. Although the from my experience the bosses/minions in ESO tend to agro the person with the highest dps. So i guess my main question is do tanks really have a role in this game or do i just not understand how agro works in this game?

thanks,
@Darkened

old_mufasa · January 2016

given your level I bet you get grouped with a lot of DPS queing as tanks... If the tank is lower level and using anything other then one hand and shield they are not a tank.. they are a DPS that qued as tank for faster que times.

As for holding agro. There are only 2 tuants in the game, one is the a single target and the 1 skill you get with one hand and shield, the other is a aoe tuant from rank 3 undaunted skill line..

So tanks that's don't have undaunted skill yet have to target swap like crazy hitting each mob one time with there base one hand and shield build.. meaning AOE dps class's are going to grab threat really fast.

Another thing is lower level tanks do to no aoe tuant tend to only target the 1st few mobs that attack.. that leaves the range dps npc's to shoot up the healer and dps as there is tuant on them...

You will know a good tank when you see them run in and aoe tuant the melee adds and keep running back to the range adds and aoe tuant them as well...

Most of the time what you get are DPS queing as tanks.. ive gotten to the point of kicking them if I'm lead.. even if we don't need a tank for the run we kick them.. as its not right to que as a role and then not do it... so if they waste our time queing as a tank when there really a dps.. we will waste there time and make them reque.

xericdx · January 2016

There is no such thing as a AoE taunt in ESO @old_mufasa

Inner rage (don't remember the other morph) from Undaunted is also single target. The only difference is that it is magika and long range.

It might seem at the beginning of the fight that the tank taunt multiple targets since he/she is normally the first (should be) to run into the fray and maybe launch a AoE attack. Then he/she starts with the single taunt.

The trick for the DPS is target priority to avoid getting too many adds that cannot all be taunted by the tank and will switch to the DPS when attacked.

Anyway, to answer @DarkenedHour I would add that the Taunt overwrite the DPS. Meaning that if the target is taunted it does not matter how much DPS you are putting out for the duration of the taunt (e.g.: for 15sec)...The taunt remains on the Tank.

Hope it helped

leeux · January 2016

Also, to add to what was said... keep in mind that some bosses have random attacks that completely ignore the taunt, and target random players around them.

Some bosses are very finicky too, and they seem to have some scripted events that makes them lose the taunt at that point, and if the tank doesn't know about it, it'll take him some time to realize that and regain aggro.

failkiwib16_ESO · January 2016

@xericdx

The skill you're refering to is Inner Fire ....

magicka based morph >Inner Rage and has 28 meters range.
stamina based morph >Inner Beast and has 15 meters range.

And yes, it is single target skill, not an AoE.

Usually veteran tanks throw Caltrops at mobs, to attract their attention to themselves, untill they are close enough to use Pierce Armor taunt on them. It's a pvp skill, not required and a bit hard to get if you dislike pvp, don't bother with this.

Dragonknight tanks usually chain pull the ranged mobs, to pull them close, so the DD's can kill them quickly with AoE skills, and only taunt the melee mobs because they're close anyway. They also use talons to immobilize the mobs for a few seconds.

1hand and shield + heavy armor is tank gear in this game.

WARNING: do not spam taunts. If you taunt 3 times in row, you will loose aggro for some seconds. Taunt bosses every 15 seconds, and you will do fine.

Taryf · January 2016

xericdx wrote: »

Inner rage (don't remember the other morph) from Undaunted is also single target. The only difference is that it is magika and long range.

Second morph is INNER BEAST and it is Stamina based skill.

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

WARNING: do not spam taunts. If you taunt 3 times in row, you will loose aggro for some seconds. Taunt bosses every 15 seconds, and you will do fine.

This is not true, you can spam taunt as much as you want (and get a nice self heal every time when you use a masters sword). The boss only becomes immune to taunts when multiple people taunt him more than 3 times. This is to prevent playing ping pong with a boss.

DarkenedHour · January 2016

Alright thanks guys that clears that up for me! really appreciate it!

Thanks,
@DarkenedHour

PainfulFAFA · January 2016

NPCs will attack players (aggro) based on:
a) who engaged 1st
b) who is doing the most dps

In order for a tank to get aggro on him there are several Taunts in the game:
a) Under Sword and Shield skill line: Puncture (melee taunt)
b) Under Undaunted Guild skill line: Inner fire (range taunt)

So basically, just point and shoot your taunts and they will 100% come at you. Be aware that each taunt has a timer so you're constantly refreshing your taunts on the enemy.
Hardcore guilds will require their tanks to not only constantly have aggro but also:
a) Support DPS by Crowd Controlling mobs
b) Support dps via Ultimate such as Warhorn during boss fights
c) Support DPS via positioning bosses. Some bosses have mechanics/attacks that can be avoided by simply aiming the boss away from the group.
d) Provide some form of dps. The highest dps from a tank i've seen is 10k on a good rotation

Dagoth_Rac · January 2016

There is no such thing as "aggro" in ESO. If an enemy is not taunted by Puncture or Inner Fire, they can (and will) attack any player at any time. Note that some bosses have special attacks that, by design, attack random players. And many enemies (both bosses and trash) have AoE attacks that simply require everyone to avoid standing in the red. But the urban legends you will hear about high DPS or high healing or certain skills drawing aggro are not true. They are just the human tendency to see patterns in random data. As a tank, taunt bosses and the heavy melee trash/adds. Refresh your taunts. Hold block. Turn enemies away from rest of group. Know the mechanics. You will very often be unable to taunt everything. That is expected. The DPS need to know how to avoid danger. The healer needs to know how to avoid danger and keep track of healing everyone, not just the tank.

Jorotarr · January 2016

I've been wondering this myself. Every group I'm in always seems to wipe. Good to know how aggro and taunts work. So if regardless I'm gonna have something attack me as a dps, how do I avoid danger?

Also is crowd control not a thing? In EverQuest an enchanter was quote essential and the group would communicate about what target is being rooted or put to sleep, and what target the tank was getting. As a Sorcerer I have some cool cc abilities but it's like everyone's combat strategy is to just rush in...

Personofsecrets · January 2016

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel , can you change aggro back to how it worked before IC?

NBrookus · January 2016

Joromarr wrote: »

I've been wondering this myself. Every group I'm in always seems to wipe. Good to know how aggro and taunts work. So if regardless I'm gonna have something attack me as a dps, how do I avoid danger?

Block, dodge roll, walk out of red. Learning the mechanics of each boss fight will help you know when to use which. Tanks need to do this too, at least until they are at a much higher level plus have good synergy with their healer and know what red you they stand in and when that's the best choice for that fight. (Which is not often.)

Also is crowd control not a thing? In EverQuest an enchanter was quote essential and the group would communicate about what target is being rooted or put to sleep, and what target the tank was getting. As a Sorcerer I have some cool cc abilities but it's like everyone's combat strategy is to just rush in...

Any good tank should have CC strategies in place and be using them. DKs have class skills that excel at this, but all classes can tank. It sounds like you are running PUGs and people are being haphazard, which happens in PUGs. DDs running in and pulling aggro is very rarely a good plan. This is roughly what should happen:

MOB

Tank runs in and pulls aggro.
Tank CC's as many mobs as possible but stopping or slowing them down, and continues doing that throughout the fight while taunting more dangerous characters. DKs can also use chains to pull ranged enemies in close to get burned faster. Tank debuffs enemies to take more damage and buffs teammates.
DDs run in and burn mobs as situationally appropriate. DDs stay out of red zones and dodge/block dangerous attacks.
Healer keeps tank alive first, DDs second.

SINGLE BOSS

Tank range taunts or runs in and taunts boss. Tank keeps taunt refreshed on boss, debuffs, and positions boss to do the least damage to other teammates. This is probably the easiest job for a tank.
DDs healer burn/heal as always

There are many dungeons where there are mixed situations or special mechanics that require a range of strategies, so the above is just generalizations. Even experienced groups that know the mechanics and run together often wipe sometimes. I wouldn't stress over that, and if you are running with other players your level many (if not most) of them are new to the game and are learning.

A Healer/Tank dual role is not easy; you may want to focus on just one or the other for now. Otherwise, it sounds like your experience with EQ is on the money; the trinity of roles is basically the same with new skills.