What Do You Consider "Good" DPS?

UrQuan · January 2016

OK, context: I never use any addons that actually track my DPS, and as a result I don't really know what numbers I'm pulling, or what numbers are considered good. I know that when I'm doing a group dungeon in a DPS role I haven't had people suggest that I wasn't putting out enough damage, and the majority of the time we burn things down at what seems like a good pace, but that's all I really know. To a certain extent that's also all I really care about, but I'm also kind of curious.

So I'm planning on starting to use an addon to track my DPS (probably FTC I guess - I'll disable most of the functionality, because I hate the way most of it looks, but from what I understand it's pretty much the standard addon most people use), but I wanted to get opinions from people on what is considered to be a good number for single-target sustained DPS. That way I'll be able to tell if my numbers are decent.

I'm not interested in knowing what DPS the absolute top players with the best min-maxed builds and capped CPs can pull - I'm interested in what you would consider to be "good" DPS. Like if you were doing the harder vet dungeons (vCOA, vICP, vWGT) at VR16 what kind of numbers would you think your DPS players should be pulling in order to help the group get through the dungeon with a minimum number of wipes?

Also, I'm not interested in multiple target DPS (obviously that depends so much on how many targets you're hitting), and I'm not interested in burst. Sustained single target DPS is what I want to know about.

So to those of you who actually track your DPS, what would you consider to be a good number for me to ensure I'm getting?

UrQuan · January 2016

Whoops, I meant to post this in the Combat & Character Mechanics section... If a mod could move the thread there, that would be much appreciated!

leepalmer95 · January 2016

10k+ is acceptable, 15k-20k is top.

40k+ is sorc overlord rage mode.

UrQuan · January 2016

Oh, and everyone who posts a legitimate answer that I don't believe is trolling gets an insightful from me, because that is literally the insight that I'm looking for

freespirit · January 2016

I use no addons, so like you I do not know........

I know that I can solo dolmens, world bosses(obviously not wrothgar), get invited back for trials and do fine when I dps group dungeons......

Although I suspect the fact I always make sure I have self heals/shields available may be more relevant than my actual damage output.

I may not do the highest damage but at least I'm usually alive!

MaxwellC · January 2016

For me as a stamina DK I believe 30k Stamina and 4K+ Weapon DPS (buffed) is great, any more stamina then that's even better. If I use food I'd have 35k Stamina + just about 4.3k weapon damage (buffed) now fully buffed I'd hit almost 4.4k or higher (minor brutality).

Leon119 · January 2016

I would say 20k is the minimum that "good" dps starts

darkdivideb16_ESO · January 2016

Well its not quite that simple, it really depends on a few things, the fight mechanics, the group set up, your class, the length of the fight, gear type/quality, crit%, & more.

you would need to choose a boss fight or 2-3 to get some good overviews.

Generally bloodspawn in spindleclutch is often used as its pretty much a static tank & spank fight, on that I average around 18-20k, but numbers could vary more depending if for example the tank is or isnt using the piercing debuff, the healer is/isnt using ele drain/soul siphon/orbs. This is as a mag nb with full legendary v16, but no vmsa staff or willpower jewellery.

You could also check tamriel foundry out for your class & see what numbers some fo the guides run, but as I said before they will have everything pretty much optimal most of the time for their numbers.

Tbh atm I would only use them as a rough guide anyway as most dungeon fights are now far too short for an accurate measure of dps, I come from a raiding background where a dps check on dummies was a minimum of 5-10 minutes to even out any discrepancies/cooldowns/crit luck.

Elsonso · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

So to those of you who actually track your DPS, what would you consider to be a good number for me to ensure I'm getting?

Enough to kill them before they kill you. Seriously.

Faunter · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Whoops, I meant to post this in the Combat & Character Mechanics section... If a mod could move the thread there, that would be much appreciated!

You can change thread categories yourself by clicking the Edit cogwheel to the right of the title.

zerosingularity · January 2016

10k is roughly the minimum you should have for most group content, which is easily achievable with purple armor and gold v16 weapons. (Just gotta weave/animation cancel properly.)

15k is where you want to be for ICP and WGT vet modes, higher is even better.

20k and you are looking at running competitive stuff. (Overload on sorcs don't count for example DPS, since that is Molag Kena abuse that is gonna be fixed, and still counts as burst DPS regardless.)

Basically <8k is low, 10k average, 15k high, 20k very high.

You want to test your DPS rotation on a mammoth in Orsinium or a boss. Some bosses have more armor and will affect your numbers, so be wary.

Valrien · January 2016

20- 25k for everyone except an Overloading Sorc (that included non-Overload Sorcs)

30-35k for Overloading Sorc

40k+ for godly Overloading Sorcs

TheDarkShadow · January 2016

I agree with zero. 10k dps is enough to pull your own weight in Vet dungeons. With more dps, you can carry more of your team mates and leave more room for mechanic mistake though. So as a casual player who like to run dungeon but not a hardcore, I aim around 12-15k. Over 25+ is only to brag imo, it's not necessary.

PaddingtonBear · January 2016

Squid DPS

UrQuan · January 2016

Faunter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Whoops, I meant to post this in the Combat & Character Mechanics section... If a mod could move the thread there, that would be much appreciated!

You can change thread categories yourself by clicking the Edit cogwheel to the right of the title.

Well damn, how did I not know that the category was one of the things you could edit? Thanks @Faunter now I know!

UrQuan · January 2016

freespirit wrote: »

I use no addons, so like you I do not know........

I know that I can solo dolmens, world bosses(obviously not wrothgar), get invited back for trials and do fine when I dps group dungeons......

Although I suspect the fact I always make sure I have self heals/shields available may be more relevant than my actual damage output.

I may not do the highest damage but at least I'm usually alive!

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat for sure. I don't typically run shields on my Templar when I'm DPSing, but I've always got heals available, and I can swap stuff up a lot depending on what's needed for any given fight so I think I bring enough utility to a group that even if my DPS isn't up to par (I mean, I think it's up to par, but I don't know for sure) I won't be dragging a group down unless it's an uber-elite group.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

For me as a stamina DK I believe 30k Stamina and 4K+ Weapon DPS (buffed) is great, any more stamina then that's even better. If I use food I'd have 35k Stamina + just about 4.3k weapon damage (buffed) now fully buffed I'd hit almost 4.4k or higher (minor brutality).

Thanks, but I'm actually asking about how much damage people would be expecting a decent DPS player to be putting out at VR16. So I'm not really wondering about the stats that show on the character sheet, but the actual numbers measured over a relatively sustained fight. As you're on console, I don't believe there's actually a way for you to be able to tell your DPS. On PC we need to use addons to track it.

UrQuan · January 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

So to those of you who actually track your DPS, what would you consider to be a good number for me to ensure I'm getting?

Enough to kill them before they kill you. Seriously.

See I agree, but that's where I'm at now, and I'm just wondering what sort of benchmark numbers I should be looking at.

timidobserver · January 2016

18-20k stand still dps burn. 14k-18k when movement and mechanics are required. Add 50% to those numbers if you are playing a Sorc.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

I use no addons, so like you I do not know........

I know that I can solo dolmens, world bosses(obviously not wrothgar), get invited back for trials and do fine when I dps group dungeons......

Although I suspect the fact I always make sure I have self heals/shields available may be more relevant than my actual damage output.

I may not do the highest damage but at least I'm usually alive!

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat for sure. I don't typically run shields on my Templar when I'm DPSing, but I've always got heals available, and I can swap stuff up a lot depending on what's needed for any given fight so I think I bring enough utility to a group that even if my DPS isn't up to par (I mean, I think it's up to par, but I don't know for sure) I won't be dragging a group down unless it's an uber-elite group.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

For me as a stamina DK I believe 30k Stamina and 4K+ Weapon DPS (buffed) is great, any more stamina then that's even better. If I use food I'd have 35k Stamina + just about 4.3k weapon damage (buffed) now fully buffed I'd hit almost 4.4k or higher (minor brutality).

Thanks, but I'm actually asking about how much damage people would be expecting a decent DPS player to be putting out at VR16. So I'm not really wondering about the stats that show on the character sheet, but the actual numbers measured over a relatively sustained fight. As you're on console, I don't believe there's actually a way for you to be able to tell your DPS. On PC we need to use addons to track it.

10k is enough for random vet dungeons are such apart from Vprison/Vwgt, there a dps 'race' type of thing in them. Though if people ar only putting this out and actually die to circles i get annoyed

15K is good enough for trial, vdsa etc... if your group is good and you don't die to circle (a dead dps isn't a dps) you could likely do prison/Vwgt without too much trouble.

20k is vey nice dps, capable to do anything in the game, just make sure you have enough resources and don't run around with 15k hp unless your a sorc with hardened ward.

25k is very good, only a few builds/classes can actually reach this high though.

30k-40k like i said is only sorc overload god territory.

UrQuan · January 2016

darkdivideb16_ESO wrote: »

Well its not quite that simple, it really depends on a few things, the fight mechanics, the group set up, your class, the length of the fight, gear type/quality, crit%, & more.

Yeah, I know there are a ton of variables involved, so maybe the best way to think of it is what would be a good benchmark for a VR16 DPS assuming he doesn't have to spend time doing stuff other than DPSing, and assuming no buffs/debuffs provided by other group members (so relying on your own buffs/debuffs is fine).

pronkg · January 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

18-20k stand still dps burn. 14k-18k when movement and mechanics are required. Add 50% to those numbers if you are playing a Sorc.

Add 50%? If you are using overload you mean. Sorcs General top dps is 18/20k tops over a long fight. Which is also more than enough to finish all content easily

Amica · January 2016

When said person dies before they get off the ground after dismounting them...

Islyn · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

For me as a stamina DK I believe 30k Stamina and 4K+ Weapon DPS (buffed) is great, any more stamina then that's even better. If I use food I'd have 35k Stamina + just about 4.3k weapon damage (buffed) now fully buffed I'd hit almost 4.4k or higher (minor brutality).

That's not DPS. That's your Wep Damage. (Nice amount buffed by the way!)

Buffed I get much higher Spell Damage too (3,5 - 4k ish), but if my mana runs out and no one's casting Ele drain or anything (or combat prayer or warhorn or anything) then my dps goes from 20k+ to 11-15k on a boss fight. (Single Target, sustained obvi)

Islyn · January 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

18-20k stand still dps burn. 14k-18k when movement and mechanics are required. Add 50% to those numbers if you are playing a Sorc.

Oh run around fights without Ele drain/Combat Prayer I (Magicka DK - Julianos, Kena, Willpower, Torugs) cannot hit that high for long.

I can at first obviously but mana runs out and DPS drops.

Without any buffs average is 12-14k for me. Maybe I am doing something wrong.

dday3six · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

30k-40k like i said is only sorc overload god territory.

DK's both Stamina and Magicka can pull 30k-35k, but yes to get any closer to 40k is pretty much only doable by a Magicka Sorc. However it's important to note that both instances are fully group supported, as in provided several group buffs to maximize damage output.

NBrookus · January 2016

My only DPS character is only V10. She can take out NPCs with anywhere from 12-18k (no ult) if she can get an early hard cast crystal frags in. Starting to run dungeons, dps falls off significantly into the 7-9k range once you add in mechanics and dodging. That feels quite low to me, mostly because my sense of how fast a dungeon should go is based on typically tanking with two strong DPSers.

But it's really not an issue in the regular & the non-hard vet dungeons: still getting assassin achievements, for example. I wouldn't try CoA or the new IC dungeons until that comes up significantly. Once I get settled on a good bar set up and rotation, and level and gear up, I would probably feel comfortable if I could consistently pull 15k.

Some of the numbers I've seen from PUG DPSers using Group Damage are much lower than my <10k. MUCH lower. Yet we make it through.

I think you will be surprised at your FTC numbers. I was surprised to learn that I often do more hps when tanking than dps! If your numbers are lower than you'd like, turn on the combat log and go find some high health npcs like mammoths to get a sense of what what really is doing more damage and whether or not you are successfully weaving.

UrQuan · January 2016

Thanks for all of the replies so far everyone (including from a guildie

). Since I started this thread I've been running around testing my numbers solo on world bosses and public dungeon bosses. It's starting to look like I can usually pull about 12-13K without using ultimates and about 18-19K using ultimates.

That's if I don't need to spend much time dodging, blocking, and interrupting. If I'm spending too much time worrying about dancing around to stay alive my numbers drop. Also, those fights don't last long enough to start to strain my resources - long enough that I'm not measuring burst, but not long enough to show what I end up with when I start to run low on magicka.

All told, though, based on what people are saying I'm fairly happy with those numbers. I figure that if I'm benefiting from buffs & debuffs provided by other party members, that should at least partly offset any drop I may see if I need to spend much time worrying about mechanics or running low on magicka.

I'll keep monitoring it for a while to see if my initial testing today has been representative.

Kammakazi · January 2016

Jealous of you PC people and your add-ons........

:'(

aLi3nZ · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

10k+ is acceptable, 15k-20k is top.

40k+ is sorc overlord rage mode.

Not sure if anyone mentioned. But I think this is all correct but only if it is a single target and maintained for 30-60seconds. Killed mobs with AOE can get my DPS up to 50k with liquid lightning and pulsar going, but single target is more like 10-13kDPS with no ultimate as a sourcer.

UrQuan · January 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

Jealous of you PC people and your add-ons........

:'(

For the record, I actually hate most of the features FTC gives you - I can't stand cluttering up my UI with most of it. But it sure is nice to have the option to use addons like that, and the really nice thing about FTC in particular (which I didn't realize until someone on the forums told me) is that it's set up so that you can customize which specific features you want to use, and how they'll appear.

But yeah, access to addons is one of the top reasons why I would never switch from PC to console.

NoMoreChillies · January 2016

wish there was a uniform mob to get dps results from, too many variables.